What bothers me most is that so many people believe his nonsense. It's astounding how easily people are fooled by that crap.
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People at Glenn Beck's Rally
- Thread starter Angel of Ioren
- Start date
Free episodes:
What bothers me most is that so many people believe his nonsense. It's astounding how easily people are fooled by that crap.
stphrz
Stuffed Tiger
I have this daydream where one day while on the air Glenn Beck rips his own face off, revealing it to be a mask. Beneath the mask is.....Andy Kaufman, who has really been alive all this time and pulling off the greatest prank in the history of pranks.
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
Venturing into the lion's den with a pork-chop necklace isn't new to me but it's always a little scarry...
I get the real sense that the vast majority of Glenn Beck's detractors havn't actually listened to him (more than soundbites here and there). First and formost, yes, he's a pundit and he leans to the right. I tend to be more right leaning than the average person here too. So that being said, I've listened to Glenn Beck (not religiously) on and off for several years and I've never found him to be objectionable. I believe that a lot of people misinterpret his dry and sarcastic sense of humor though, I guess I'm dry and sarcastic enough to appreciate it.
I sense that all Beck truly wants is to promote the return to the system of government and values that the forefathers had in mind for the nation when they conceived of it. I can certainly see where his stance on religion and religious values might turn some people off and I can appreciate their viewpoint on those things. But for the most part, he only wants America to be the greatest nation it can be...I think most all Americans want the same thing. We just have different ideas on how we can go about making this happen.
I find that Beck is far less annoying and extreme than say Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. Maybe it's because I agree with much of what Beck talks about (not all of it, but most), but I find Beck to be more representative of my "middle of the road" political, financial and social beliefs than any other pundit, or host of his kind. I'm curious as to why exactly so many people think of Beck as extreme. I've heard him referred to as a "racist", and I fervently disagree with this. I've heard him referred to in a number of negative ways...I'm curious as to why this is?
With trepidation, I watched the clip at his rally and I found this to be mildly offensive. It was obvious to me that the people making the clip had an agenda. Whether one looks to the right or the left, there are wacko's and kooks on either side. Sure, some extreme types are drawn to Beck. But some are also drawn to left as well. It's all about your personal beliefs. Not all of Beck's fans are the same. Some of us are smart, well spoke and logical. I guess I would ask Gene, what nonsense are you talking about? I would also ask, have you truly listened to what Beck has to say? Not just soundbites or highlights, but have you listened to the show for 3-4 weeks? You might just find that he's more "middle of the road" than you believe him to be.
I get the real sense that the vast majority of Glenn Beck's detractors havn't actually listened to him (more than soundbites here and there). First and formost, yes, he's a pundit and he leans to the right. I tend to be more right leaning than the average person here too. So that being said, I've listened to Glenn Beck (not religiously) on and off for several years and I've never found him to be objectionable. I believe that a lot of people misinterpret his dry and sarcastic sense of humor though, I guess I'm dry and sarcastic enough to appreciate it.
I sense that all Beck truly wants is to promote the return to the system of government and values that the forefathers had in mind for the nation when they conceived of it. I can certainly see where his stance on religion and religious values might turn some people off and I can appreciate their viewpoint on those things. But for the most part, he only wants America to be the greatest nation it can be...I think most all Americans want the same thing. We just have different ideas on how we can go about making this happen.
I find that Beck is far less annoying and extreme than say Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. Maybe it's because I agree with much of what Beck talks about (not all of it, but most), but I find Beck to be more representative of my "middle of the road" political, financial and social beliefs than any other pundit, or host of his kind. I'm curious as to why exactly so many people think of Beck as extreme. I've heard him referred to as a "racist", and I fervently disagree with this. I've heard him referred to in a number of negative ways...I'm curious as to why this is?
With trepidation, I watched the clip at his rally and I found this to be mildly offensive. It was obvious to me that the people making the clip had an agenda. Whether one looks to the right or the left, there are wacko's and kooks on either side. Sure, some extreme types are drawn to Beck. But some are also drawn to left as well. It's all about your personal beliefs. Not all of Beck's fans are the same. Some of us are smart, well spoke and logical. I guess I would ask Gene, what nonsense are you talking about? I would also ask, have you truly listened to what Beck has to say? Not just soundbites or highlights, but have you listened to the show for 3-4 weeks? You might just find that he's more "middle of the road" than you believe him to be.
I agree. It just boggles my mind how people can listen to him and take his words and inane mutterings as gospel. People like Glenn Beck, as well as a few others, are what have completely turned me off, at the age of 23, of watching news on television. I would much rather read a newspaper than subject myself to the migraine of bullshit being spouted from so-called journalists on the news networks, whether they be right, left, or flying by the seat of their pants. Just my opinion.
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
What "inane mutterings" are you talking about specifically? The thing about Beck is that you know up front what you are getting. He doesn't claim to be a journalist, free from bias. He will tell you right off that he is "op-ed".
There are just as many people on the "left" who take what huffington says as gosphel. I guess, in my mind, we should be promoting an actual "free press", a press outlet without bias, but as long as the news organizations are owned and controlled by big business, there will always be bias (on all sides). What I can't believe is that people on BOTH sides (left and right) would fail to see how the corporate mass-media is controlling the "truth". You see, the media and the people in charge have us all right where they want us...divided and conquered. As long as you and I are arguing left vs. right, it's business as usual for the people in charge and cashing in on the fruits of our labors. There are smart people on both sides, there are dumb people on both sides, but both sides are deluded into believing that the other side is where the dummies are. We need to stop this nonsense, find a common ground and affect change in the way we are treated (world-wide).
The people in charge are less interested in you and me than they are in keeping their power and authority, and saving their money. Yet, we are fighting among ourselves. We are engaged in a class warfare, but we are all blinded by all of this political posturing (on all sides) and they have us fighting among ourselves instead of asking the true questions that should be asked of our leaders...such as why are hungry people not fed in one of the richest nations on the planet?, etc. Why have we not wiped out homelessness? Why are so many people still unemployed? Why are Goldman Sachs employees given H1N1 vaccines before they are made available to hospitals and children? Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Why are taxes so out of control? Why is gas WAY too high? Why do we allow speculators to control gas prices? Etc. Etc. Etc.
I'm ranting, sorry.
---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 PM ----------
I'm really starting to like you. Andy Kaufman. Funny.
Please visit Media Matters for America, and you'll see where Beck has been totally wrong and, in fact, blatantly racist in what he says. Yes, I've listened to him, and I cannot stand it any more.
Yes, Media Matters is liberal, but that doesn't change the fact that they have nailed Beck again and again for outright lies. What's more, despite the right-wing's constant claim that Media Matters is always wrong, they have yet to show a single instance where that's so.
Beck is a clown, a faker through and through out for only one thing — making Glenn Beck richer. Period.
Yes, Media Matters is liberal, but that doesn't change the fact that they have nailed Beck again and again for outright lies. What's more, despite the right-wing's constant claim that Media Matters is always wrong, they have yet to show a single instance where that's so.
Beck is a clown, a faker through and through out for only one thing — making Glenn Beck richer. Period.
AnnetteMarie
Skilled Investigator
Yes, they did. and if they ever evolve into functional, thinking humans, they will cringe inside their skins at the memory.
Sheeple, however, follow the mood, the mob, whatever is presented to them that resonates in some small way inside them and gives them the illusion they are the ones who are normal, the 'right' thinkers. That their opinion matters as much, if not more, than the opinions of others. I think that the greater numbers of these folks feel unheard/ignored/not respected in their everyday lives.
Palin/Beck and a multitude of other figures have a way of making these disenfranchised feel a part of the decision-making process for the country.
That is why they listen and agree and nod their heads to whatever comes out of the mouths of Beck and Palin. They give these people the illusion their opinions count more than their numbers.
Good gig, eh?
The preceding is the opinion of the author and may not be hijacked for the purpose of forming a new religion, political party, or to support the comeback of common sense.
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
I'll check it out with an open mind...but I will state for the record that I have very little trust in things like this. Never the less, I will check it out and if I find, satisfactorily that Beck's words havn't been take out of context and he is a racist...then I'lll be back here to stand up and say that I was wrong about him.
As for his viewpoints on what he says he wants for the country, I agree with much of what he says...for better or worse. Not all, but most. The "racist" thing however, I can't and won't abide if it is indeed proven true. I've listened for a long time and have never heard him say anything remotely racist...but I will check out this link.
As to your last sentence, that's your stance and I respect it..even if I disagree with it. I don't think Beck hides the fact that he's out to grow his show (or even his wallet), that's capitalism...you are doing the same thing. There's nothing wrong with that.
To be continued.
Here's some more for you:
PolitiFact | Glenn Beck's file
That's not a liberal site. It finds fault with both sides, and has won a Pulitzer.
PolitiFact | Glenn Beck's file
That's not a liberal site. It finds fault with both sides, and has won a Pulitzer.
Sean Elifritz
Administrator
Yeah, because everyone knows that all conservatives have a few black people tied up in our basements. Who's he trying to fool? :
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
What I want to know is;...Where was Beck, and the other TeaParty "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK" loudmouths during the Bush Jr. administration?
Bush infinged, stepped on, chopped up and ouright crapped on habeus corpus, right to privacy, right to stop unreasonable search and seizure, illegal witretapping, among other things........I mean the FBI, the CIA, the NSA and other three letter agencies were not good enough to handle America's security so Bush created the Office of Homeland Security---able to bypass any Constitution or Bill Of Rights rights any time they feel like it.
So where were these Teabangers then???????
None of this stuff became fashionable and in vogue until Obama took office,....and then suddenly "OH MY GOD WHERE DID MY RIGHTS GO??????" crap showed up.
And we all know this Teaparty crap is just a smokescreen for rascism.
And I have been unwillingly subjected to months of Glen Beck shows because my bedridden father likes to watch him.
I have come to feel about him the same way Mr.Beck feels about President Woodrow Wilson...."I hate that guy", to quote him several times.
Mr. Beck is so full of shit if we televised his show to the Sahara, in 6 months there'd be a rain forest.
Sean Elifritz
Administrator
How could I not be aware of the debt? That's what I've been complaining about throughout the thread. When ya' look at the books of this country it's like a 9 year old is running things. And amazingly, stupendously, breathtakingly, 50% of people think we aren't spending enough!
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
Done.
Or at least I've gone as far as I'm going to go. There are indeed lots of accusations that Beck is a racist, none of which carry much weight in my opinion.
Some material cut and pasted from the site you recommended...
This is the "proof" that Beck is a racist? They cite his preoccupation with slavery (as a metaphor), as evidenced in the snippets below. But he is obviously taking a stance against "econimic slavery", using slavery as a metaphor to help make his point. And I agree with him...we are "wage slaves" and it's not right. We aren't properly represented either.
Government debt. "Here's the debt per citizen. Debt per taxpayer is $118,000. Federal budget deficit, U.S. federal spending - bring the unfunded liabilities. This is a great one. Here it is - $109 trillion. The liability per citizen is $352,588. I'd like to see the calculation on what it is per taxpayer - $109 trillion. Do you see all of these zeros? You know what those are? Those are links in a chain. It is slavery. It is slavery for you and slavery for our children. Your kids are being enslaved."
<O
</O
I tried to paste many other citation examples but kept getting these frustrating error messages stating that I have too many icons or some such crap...and I just don't want to wrestle with the error messages anymore.
Obama as the "slavemaster." On the January 11 edition of his Fox News show, Beck said of Obama: "The most effective way to become the slavemaster and make them come to you is to make them come to you for employment. How could you ever, if you're the president, lose your job if the voter understands that 'if I vote for the competitor who wants to reduce the size of government, that means my job goes away. I'll lose my job.' The real power grab is getting them into your employ." <O></O>
This is a statement against big government, and I agree. If everyone in the US were employed by the state, why would we vote for someone who wanted "less government"? That makes perfect sense to me. it's not about racism at all. It's not about Obama being black, its anti-big government. Beck was saying these sorts of things when Clinton was in office.
Beck praised constitutional provision protecting slave trade. In his 2009 book Arguing With Idiots, Beck reprinted and praised the now-obsolete Article I, Section 9, Clause 1 of the Constitution, which prohibited Congress from ending the slave trade before 1808 and capped taxes on the slave trade at $10 per slave. Beck, without mentioning slavery, interpreted the provision to mean that "the Founders actually put a price tag on coming to this country: $10 per person. Apparently they felt like there was a value to being able to live here."<O</O
This last citation from his book was sarcasm, pure and simple. The entire book was dipped in it. This is one thing a lot of people don't seem to understand about Beck.
<O</O
Additionally, many of the claims of racist rhetoric from Beck (cited at this website) come directly from a guy named Alexander Zaitchik, hardly a non-biased source of information. Google him if you want but it will be clear to anyone that the guy has a financial interest in painting Beck in the worst light possible. He's trying to sell his own books. of course he's going to say that Beck is satan.
The bottom line to me is this. As humans we look for anything and everything we can find to help us to confirm/validate our own beliefs. It's no different in this case than it is in UFOlogy. You are guilty of it and so am I. We all do it. Your belief system says that Beck is a clown, a racist. My belief system begs to differ. You are dumbfounded that people like me can believe that Beck is harmless and I am dumbfounded that people like you will believe the people (like Zaitchik) with obvious interest in limiting Beck's influence. So we are at an impasse. We must simply agree to disagree, like we have to do in so many other topics. You will go on, shaking your head that I can be so obtuse...and I will go on shaking my head that you don't seem to see the "big picture" of what is happening. You believe that you are right, I believe that I am right. And so it goes.
It's stimulating to engage in friendly debate about such things, but to me the stimulation gives way to frustration too quickly...especially when typing and not talking face to face. I need to just stay away from politics and religion...especially since I'm in the minority in both areas when it comes to these message boards....yours and the other ones I'm on. That's just the way it goes. I just hate being lumped in with dipshits and I REALLY hate it when generalizations are made...things like "All Beck fans are fools" (not a direct quote, but you get the picture.) I'm a fan, and I'm not a fool.
Anyway, thanks for turning me on to this website. It was just as I thought it would be. IF there was a time that Beck made racist comments, perhaps earlier in his career that I'm not aware of, it's unfortunate. But like you say so well in our recent debate at USofE, people change. Attitudes are not frozen in time, people can and do change their stances on certain things. We are all entitled to change our viewpoints on things.
Anyway,
I got into the paranormal to give me a break from the political crap that we are so inundated with these days. I'm going to begin gracefully backing out of political discussion - that's the plan anyway. But I'm only human and I do have to poke my 2cents worth in if I sense that there is misunderstanding (like with Beck) or if I'm not understanding. I despise the whole "right" vs. "left" thing and I truly believe that we have smoothly been divided and conquered already. The people have all but lost the power (unfortunately).
Peace
<O></O>
---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------
I share your frustration about Homeland Security and the trampling of the Bill of Rights. But had you been listening to Beck back then, you would know that he shared these frustrations too. He spoke out many, MANY times on just that. Beck was warning of the dire implications of forfeiting our rights back when it was PC to support Bush (in the immediate post 9/11 patriotism spike).That's what I don't get about many of Becks detractors. He HAS been saying these same things since before Obama took office.
He said on more than one occasion that our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they could see what was happening to the bill of rights. On many occasions he compared the actions of the Bush administration (especially post 9/11) to those of Nazi Germany. But many Americans were so stunned by 9/11 that they were (mistakenly, in my opinion) supportive of things like wiretapping. The outrage has built and built and this (I believe) is what spawned the Tea Party. The Tea Party movement diddn't exist until recently so they couldn't mobilize and protest Bush's crimes. But I do have a strong suspicion that Bush's transgressions played a major part in the formation of the Tea Party.
Also, you have to separate Beck and the Tea Party. While I will freely admit that Beck is supportive of them, he didn't invent the movement. The Tea Party isn't anti black president, they aren't anti Obama, they are not anti health care for poor people, they are not pro-wire tapping. They seem intent (as does Beck) on getting the country back on a better path. No one is saying that the democrats are the primary evil, causing all of our problems. But Beck WILL say that his conservative values are more in line with the right than the left. This being said, he has argued against the actions of Republicans too. It's fact.
As for the Tea Party being a cover for racism, believe what you want. You are very obviously very passionate about your belief so there is no argument that will sway what you believe. I'll just say that I don't think it's racist to want to stop illegal immigration. I'm not a card-carrying Tea Party member, but I do support much of what they stand for. I am anti ILLEGAL immigration. I'm not a racist, I love the fact that America is so culturally diverse, but I hate the fact that we are allowing people to simply get away with breaking our immigration laws. If a person wants to migrate to the USA (and God only knows why anyone would want to at this point in history) then it's not too much to ask that they go about it legally. If the legal process of migrating to the USA is too cumbersome, then let's fix it. But try arguing to a judge that you broke the law because the law is inconvenient and see where it gets you.
No one wants little non-resident kids to go without food or medicine or school, but someone has to pay for these things too. It's not too much to ask immigrants to go "on the books" so that they can pay their fair share of the bill for their kids (not to mention being allowed to vote and take advantage of other rights granted to legal residents)...if that is a racist thing to say then sign me up for the Klan.
Or at least I've gone as far as I'm going to go. There are indeed lots of accusations that Beck is a racist, none of which carry much weight in my opinion.
Some material cut and pasted from the site you recommended...
This is the "proof" that Beck is a racist? They cite his preoccupation with slavery (as a metaphor), as evidenced in the snippets below. But he is obviously taking a stance against "econimic slavery", using slavery as a metaphor to help make his point. And I agree with him...we are "wage slaves" and it's not right. We aren't properly represented either.
Government debt. "Here's the debt per citizen. Debt per taxpayer is $118,000. Federal budget deficit, U.S. federal spending - bring the unfunded liabilities. This is a great one. Here it is - $109 trillion. The liability per citizen is $352,588. I'd like to see the calculation on what it is per taxpayer - $109 trillion. Do you see all of these zeros? You know what those are? Those are links in a chain. It is slavery. It is slavery for you and slavery for our children. Your kids are being enslaved."
<O
</OI tried to paste many other citation examples but kept getting these frustrating error messages stating that I have too many icons or some such crap...and I just don't want to wrestle with the error messages anymore.
Obama as the "slavemaster." On the January 11 edition of his Fox News show, Beck said of Obama: "The most effective way to become the slavemaster and make them come to you is to make them come to you for employment. How could you ever, if you're the president, lose your job if the voter understands that 'if I vote for the competitor who wants to reduce the size of government, that means my job goes away. I'll lose my job.' The real power grab is getting them into your employ." <O
></O>This is a statement against big government, and I agree. If everyone in the US were employed by the state, why would we vote for someone who wanted "less government"? That makes perfect sense to me. it's not about racism at all. It's not about Obama being black, its anti-big government. Beck was saying these sorts of things when Clinton was in office.
Beck praised constitutional provision protecting slave trade. In his 2009 book Arguing With Idiots, Beck reprinted and praised the now-obsolete Article I, Section 9, Clause 1 of the Constitution, which prohibited Congress from ending the slave trade before 1808 and capped taxes on the slave trade at $10 per slave. Beck, without mentioning slavery, interpreted the provision to mean that "the Founders actually put a price tag on coming to this country: $10 per person. Apparently they felt like there was a value to being able to live here."<O
</OThis last citation from his book was sarcasm, pure and simple. The entire book was dipped in it. This is one thing a lot of people don't seem to understand about Beck.
<O
</OAdditionally, many of the claims of racist rhetoric from Beck (cited at this website) come directly from a guy named Alexander Zaitchik, hardly a non-biased source of information. Google him if you want but it will be clear to anyone that the guy has a financial interest in painting Beck in the worst light possible. He's trying to sell his own books. of course he's going to say that Beck is satan.
The bottom line to me is this. As humans we look for anything and everything we can find to help us to confirm/validate our own beliefs. It's no different in this case than it is in UFOlogy. You are guilty of it and so am I. We all do it. Your belief system says that Beck is a clown, a racist. My belief system begs to differ. You are dumbfounded that people like me can believe that Beck is harmless and I am dumbfounded that people like you will believe the people (like Zaitchik) with obvious interest in limiting Beck's influence. So we are at an impasse. We must simply agree to disagree, like we have to do in so many other topics. You will go on, shaking your head that I can be so obtuse...and I will go on shaking my head that you don't seem to see the "big picture" of what is happening. You believe that you are right, I believe that I am right. And so it goes.
It's stimulating to engage in friendly debate about such things, but to me the stimulation gives way to frustration too quickly...especially when typing and not talking face to face. I need to just stay away from politics and religion...especially since I'm in the minority in both areas when it comes to these message boards....yours and the other ones I'm on. That's just the way it goes. I just hate being lumped in with dipshits and I REALLY hate it when generalizations are made...things like "All Beck fans are fools" (not a direct quote, but you get the picture.) I'm a fan, and I'm not a fool.
Anyway, thanks for turning me on to this website. It was just as I thought it would be. IF there was a time that Beck made racist comments, perhaps earlier in his career that I'm not aware of, it's unfortunate. But like you say so well in our recent debate at USofE, people change. Attitudes are not frozen in time, people can and do change their stances on certain things. We are all entitled to change our viewpoints on things.
Anyway,
I got into the paranormal to give me a break from the political crap that we are so inundated with these days. I'm going to begin gracefully backing out of political discussion - that's the plan anyway. But I'm only human and I do have to poke my 2cents worth in if I sense that there is misunderstanding (like with Beck) or if I'm not understanding. I despise the whole "right" vs. "left" thing and I truly believe that we have smoothly been divided and conquered already. The people have all but lost the power (unfortunately).
Peace
<O
></O>---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------
I share your frustration about Homeland Security and the trampling of the Bill of Rights. But had you been listening to Beck back then, you would know that he shared these frustrations too. He spoke out many, MANY times on just that. Beck was warning of the dire implications of forfeiting our rights back when it was PC to support Bush (in the immediate post 9/11 patriotism spike).That's what I don't get about many of Becks detractors. He HAS been saying these same things since before Obama took office.
He said on more than one occasion that our founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they could see what was happening to the bill of rights. On many occasions he compared the actions of the Bush administration (especially post 9/11) to those of Nazi Germany. But many Americans were so stunned by 9/11 that they were (mistakenly, in my opinion) supportive of things like wiretapping. The outrage has built and built and this (I believe) is what spawned the Tea Party. The Tea Party movement diddn't exist until recently so they couldn't mobilize and protest Bush's crimes. But I do have a strong suspicion that Bush's transgressions played a major part in the formation of the Tea Party.
Also, you have to separate Beck and the Tea Party. While I will freely admit that Beck is supportive of them, he didn't invent the movement. The Tea Party isn't anti black president, they aren't anti Obama, they are not anti health care for poor people, they are not pro-wire tapping. They seem intent (as does Beck) on getting the country back on a better path. No one is saying that the democrats are the primary evil, causing all of our problems. But Beck WILL say that his conservative values are more in line with the right than the left. This being said, he has argued against the actions of Republicans too. It's fact.
As for the Tea Party being a cover for racism, believe what you want. You are very obviously very passionate about your belief so there is no argument that will sway what you believe. I'll just say that I don't think it's racist to want to stop illegal immigration. I'm not a card-carrying Tea Party member, but I do support much of what they stand for. I am anti ILLEGAL immigration. I'm not a racist, I love the fact that America is so culturally diverse, but I hate the fact that we are allowing people to simply get away with breaking our immigration laws. If a person wants to migrate to the USA (and God only knows why anyone would want to at this point in history) then it's not too much to ask that they go about it legally. If the legal process of migrating to the USA is too cumbersome, then let's fix it. But try arguing to a judge that you broke the law because the law is inconvenient and see where it gets you.
No one wants little non-resident kids to go without food or medicine or school, but someone has to pay for these things too. It's not too much to ask immigrants to go "on the books" so that they can pay their fair share of the bill for their kids (not to mention being allowed to vote and take advantage of other rights granted to legal residents)...if that is a racist thing to say then sign me up for the Klan.
exo_doc
Foolish Earthling
Yes I suppose I am passionate about it. I'm hoping that doesn't blind me or stop me from changing my mind IF rational facts are presented to me that show the errors of my thinking.
As for immigration, here is how I see it. If you're here legally, that's fine.
If you're here illegally, that being the key word, you should be deported back to your country of origin (unless you can show that you'd be killed or a political prisoner if you did.).
And I think parents MUST be here legally for a baby born here to become a citizen, not just come to the US and drop a baby who is suddenly an American.
I think of immigration the way I think of a lifeboat. If there is only enough room for "x" number of people in the lifeboat, you just can't let more on or you sink and everybody dies. The US only has a finite amount of resources. If we continue to let people into this country that become a drag and use up things like welfare and medicare/medicaid....we are ALL going to suffer.
I'm not advocating letting kids starve, but the line must be drawn somewhere. It's mean and it's cruel, ...most likely unethical, ... and it's not something that fills me with pride to say it.
I would LOVE for America to be able to "Give me your poor, your tired, your huddeled masses" , but it's just not practical anymore.
But as for Beck....I've said enough about him.
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
Whether you realize it or not, you just agreed with Glenn Beck AND the Tea Party on this issue. And I, for one, could not agree more with you.
stphrz
Stuffed Tiger
To anyone in this thread that hasn't clued in that Glenn Beck is one of the most loathsome. vile creatures on the airwaves read this.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/25/1790858/this-is-who-we-really-is-glenn.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/25/1790858/this-is-who-we-really-is-glenn.html
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
Consider the source.
He uses Becks words (out of primary context) as a weapon against conservatism as a whole. This isn't anything new, it happens on all sides. The author of this article shows his bias in the list of other articles he's written against conservatives...with the notable exception of agreeing with Mike Huckabee on Huck's stance supporting illegal immigrants.
The title to one of his last articles: Dr. Laura's ignorance on display; asking a conservative pundit for advide on race is like asking an ayatollah for advice on preparing the Christmas ham.
Here are more of the authors own words:
Not to startle you, but you have a narrative in your head. Dozens of them, in fact.
You're hardly unique. We all carry around these narratives, these perceptions of How Things Are: customer service is extinct; athletes are spoiled and overpaid; kids these days don't know what real music is; this newspaper has an anti-conservative/anti-liberal bias, whatever. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o><o
></o>Some narratives are unsupported by fact, others sit atop a mountain of empirical evidence. The point is, we all have them, and when some incident appears to confirm one, we rush to use it in our blogs, our barroom debates, our newspaper columns.
The guy (and you) have a narrative in your head already about Glenn Beck, it is supported by half truths and confirmation bias. You can (and rightly so) argue that I have a similar yet opposite narrative.
More of the authors own words (these, I like)
But debate by iconic example often isn't debate at all, if by that word you mean intellectual give-and-take, thrust-and-parry. Instead, one slams down one's examples like a royal flush in poker. Game over, rake in the pot. And never mind the fairness or even the truth of the tale. After all, the object is not to reason, elucidate or persuade but simply to win, i.e., leave the opponent embarrassed and/or speechless.
I'm glad that we are able to debate civilly, without resorting to name calling.
stphrz
Stuffed Tiger
Some narratives are unsupported by fact, others sit atop a mountain of empirical evidence.
Sure, everyone has their own opinions. The facts, however, are not owned by anyone. False equivalency arguments break down in the face of reality. An opinion unsupported by fact is not equal to an opinion which takes facts of reality into account.
The same applies to rhetoric.
Sure, everyone has their own opinions. The facts, however, are not owned by anyone. False equivalency arguments break down in the face of reality. An opinion unsupported by fact is not equal to an opinion which takes facts of reality into account.
The same applies to rhetoric.
bmadccp
BS Bloodhound
Exactly what I was trying to say. Well put.
This is where bmadccp shoots himself in the face
What is the "reality"? And who gets to decide what "reality" in this case is?
And what IS the empirical evidence that you are aluding to? Opinion is NOT empirical evidence.
Cite for me a source where Beck states that he owns slaves, or wants to own slaves, or thinks that minorities are inferior to him and I'll concede that Beck is a racist. But until you do that, you cannot say that empirical evidence shows Beck to be a racist. You are making your case based on an interpretation (a biased one) of metaphor. This is soft (at best) thinking. Until you interview the dude yourself (or cite a legit interview) and demonstrate that he espouses racial inequality, you don't get to say that you have empirical evidence about this issue. Neither does the author of the article in question. (I don't want to make this about YOU and ME, this is about FACTS and how the FACTS are arrived at).
You say that the facts are not owned, but who gets to decide what the real facts of this case (or any other) are? The "facts" being bandied about by Beck's main detractors here are in question. The "facts", thus far have been given to you by sources that are decidedly biased...so are they truly "facts"? or are you simply experiencing confirmation bias?
It is you (his detractors in general) that bare the burdon of REAL proof in this case, and not some second hand article written by a guy who is obviously left-leaning and has a vested interest in casting Beck in a bad light. Proof cannot be formed out of opinion, especially such obviously biased opinion. I would posit that the things you cite as fact about Beck are merely opinions of left-leaning pundits. You are arguing that the opinions of your sources are indeed facts. The opinions of the sources cited come from a place of bias and stem from a misunderstanding of the person in question.
This is going nowhere. I don't give a shit about Beck, I don't know him. I only know what I have heard him say (and what I have not heard him say). I agree with much of what he says, you don't...so be it. But I do care about the truth and I refuse to give people a free pass to bash on the guy based on insanely biased information about him.To do so is to speak foolishly in my opinion. I don't know why I keep getting sucked into this. It will bare no fruit and nothing positive will come from it. There is not truth to be learned in spewing opinions, I need to keep reminding myself that it's an outlet for you guys. I respect that, I completely disagree with the premise and find it flawed, but it's an outlet for your frustrations and that is needed.
If you say Beck is a racist, a clown, vile and loathsome, so be it. Glenn Beck is a vile, loathsome, racist clown. That's your opinion, I can't say that I respect it for it's voracity, but I respect your right to speak your mind. As long as it can go both ways. My stance is as follows (it's an opinion).
My opinion is that most outspoken liberals are pseudo-intellectual kool-aid drinkers who believe that they are free thinkers but have actually been quietly indoctrinated by the radical left, through a perversely biased media and immersion in anti-social drivel like Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged (among many others). I believe that those of you whom have chosen to call Beck names and accuse him of things like racism are merely regurgitating the biased opinions handed to you by liberal media pundits, you have not opted to think for yourself but rather to continue to guzzle down the blue kool-aid and I fear that you and your propencity for political correctness will cause the final downfall of a once great culture. Feel free to cite my opinion as fact if you want.
Wow, that DOES feel good.
Editorial: I feel like this post was over-the-top sarcastic and I must admit that I've gotten far to personally attached to this debate. I am going to the doctor tomorrow to have my head examined. I know full well that I'm perhaps THE only conservative on this thread (let alone this entire forum) so I should never have engaged in this debate. Opinions are like assholes...
stphrz
Stuffed Tiger
Ayn Rand? The Ayn Rand that had a crush on a serial killer? That Ayn Rand?
Ayn Rand is radical left? Leftwing thinkers immerse themselves in Atlas Shrugged?
Now those are facts! Holy shit.
You're killing me here.