Phillip Corso and Bill Birnes

[valiens]

Corso died not long after the book came out, so we only have Birnes to defend him. That is both good and bad. Certainly, Birnes is a vigorous proponent of Corso's claims, but he is also a story-teller, and sometimes you wonder if the two don't converge a little too closely.

In saying that, though, I've always been hot and cold on the whole Corso affair. When I saw some video clips of him in the first James Fox UFO documentary, I was impressed. Here was a straight-shooter, a sincere, dedicated military officer -- one highly decorated by the way -- who was just telling the truth as he saw it.

That image flies in the face of the errors in the book and the apparent logical shortcomings. So was this man, in the final stages of his life, simply making up stories to leave a nest egg for his family, or was he trying to tell the truth? Does Corso have a reputation as someone who lied, or just exaggerated his life story? It doesn't seem so, and hence I continue to wonder what it's all about.

Maybe we should interview Corso's son next.

Gene, here's what I don't get about all this Birnes-bashing (not from you):

He made it pretty clear, I thought, which stories he believed, which he didn't, and which were gray areas. In all three he tries to play them out to what he thinks their logical conclusions are. Of those, he said he doesn't 100% believe the Corso story. Personally, he has problems with it too--it's a gray area--even though he wrote the book bringing it to its logical conclusion.

What about that is underhanded and evil? Anyone? Whatever else you may not like about him, the dude isn't Greer, I promise you. Nor is he Paola who actually does believe everything.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene, here's what I don't get about all this Birnes-bashing (not from you):

He made it pretty clear, I thought, which stories he believed, which he didn't, and which were gray areas. In all three he tries to play them out to what he thinks their logical conclusions are. Of those, he said he doesn't 100% believe the Corso story. Personally, he has problems with it too--it's a gray area--even though he wrote the book bringing it to its logical conclusion.

What about that is underhanded and evil? Anyone? Whatever else you may not like about him, the dude isn't Greer, I promise you. Nor is he Paola who actually does believe everything.

I like Birnes and my conversations with him, even the private ones, are almost always fascinating. Yes, I think he has a pretty good concept of reality. And I have no problem with him hawking his TV show, magazine and books. It's hard enough to make a living nowadays.

 

[Kieran]

Gene, here's what I don't get about all this Birnes-bashing (not from you):

He made it pretty clear, I thought, which stories he believed, which he didn't, and which were gray areas. In all three he tries to play them out to what he thinks their logical conclusions are. Of those, he said he doesn't 100% believe the Corso story. Personally, he has problems with it too--it's a gray area--even though he wrote the book bringing it to its logical conclusion.

What about that is underhanded and evil? Anyone? Whatever else you may not like about him, the dude isn't Greer, I promise you. Nor is he Paola who actually does believe everything.

Look jeremy i have to disagree. Bill birnes is a fully fledged believer in everything paranormal very little question marks are added to his storys, and to be honest during the two whole hours i rarely heard Bill enter the grey area.

I respect your opinion but i have to disagree on your post. It not about him acting like greer they are separate individuals with different agendas.

 

[sk4p]

I'm going to give the episode another listen tonight. My first listen through, it was like "dang, Bill, do you buy all this stuff?" But it was refreshing to hear his angle on the Harris craziness.

I began reading The Day after Roswell when it first came out and honestly about halfway in I said "I can't read this." It really was, as someone else said, like the Kevin Bacon/Six Degrees of the 20th century.

Let me illustrate how I feel about Corso: Barney and Betty Hill may not have had a lot in the way of "hard" evidence, but their story doesn't violate that much of what I think I "know" about the history of the last 100 years. Corso's story does, and I join John in having some indignation on behalf of the engineers and scientists whom (I believe) genuinely innovated, without the help of alien technology.

I'm not saying for a moment it's impossible that Corso's story is true, but it would require a large revision to the history books, and thus it falls under extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence.

That said, with Gene and Jeremy's favorable words on Bill, I am going to give the episode an additional, even more attentive, listen. And if I still think Bill is weaseling out on a point, or believing with very little evidence, I'll actually write down the time point during the episode when this happens so I can cite it later.

--Shawn

 

[valiens]

Irishseeker:

What agenda do you think Bill has? He's a successful writer--was a novelist before he came to the UFO world--has a successful TV show and a magazine. I dunno what his finances are but I'm guessing he could retire now and live happily ever after. I think if he has an agenda it's simply kind of what Gene was getting at: The writer in him loves a good story and this field is full of 'em. But that doesn't mean he's blind to the fact that they are often times lies or embellishments. I just think he revels in them equally because they trigger that creative impulse in him.

I find that to be the case with a lot of people in this field who defend, for instance, Billy Meier. Something about that wild, imaginative hoax really does speak to people on different levels. That's all well and good, but the second you lose sight of the fact that at its core is a con job and probably a cult...well...that's when we've got problems. Bill, to my knowledge, doesn't do that. He can explain Billy Meier with the same exasperation as the true believer but at the end of it, he'll tell you it's crap.The exasperation comes from his drive to tell stories and that one's a whopper!

(Please note that this is from someone who has taken UFO Magazine to task in the past for printing too much crap.)

SUMMARY: Bill Birnes talks fast but that doesn't mean he's fast-talking.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I know some of you would prefer we hit Birnes harder in these interviews, but you can easily get lost in the stories, which are so fascinating. He does indeed have an encyclopedic knowledge of a lot of subjects. He has one or more PHDs too, so he's a real expert on lots of stuff, including the law, though I don't know if he's passed the bar yet.

I did a 20-minute taped segment with Birnes a few months ago, as recorded by the "UFO Hunters" crew, and, if I get a copy, we'll play it on a future episode. He said some fascinating things there too -- but it doesn't hurt to be more than a little skeptical about such matters.

Gene posted 2 paragraphs!!!!!!! Party time.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I have a hard time with the notion that ufology is a cash cow. I could be wrong. It just seems that there are more productive avenues if you are into money alone.

But of course, there are stupid people........... SDM. But he has to stick his weener in everything woo woo basket, not just ufos to live in an apartment with other crooks.

 

[Gareth]

Maybe we should interview Corso's son next.

Yes, Gene. Please interview Corso Jnr. Although Ive seen him speak on video and found him less than convincing, I think it would the best thing to move the Corso discussion forward on the Paracast.

Surely Bill Birnes could organise it, as they seem to know each other pretty well.

 

[Gareth]

Gene, here's what I don't get about all this Birnes-bashing (not from you):

He made it pretty clear, I thought, which stories he believed, which he didn't, and which were gray areas. In all three he tries to play them out to what he thinks their logical conclusions are. Of those, he said he doesn't 100% believe the Corso story. Personally, he has problems with it too--it's a gray area--even though he wrote the book bringing it to its logical conclusion.

What about that is underhanded and evil? Anyone? Whatever else you may not like about him, the dude isn't Greer, I promise you. Nor is he Paola who actually does believe everything.

I completely agree. I seems some people are responding to the combination of Birnes being extremely knowledgeable and jumping around a bit, and the fact that hes a publisher/writer and has conditioned himself to plug when given the opportunity.

I mean the guy is smack bang in the middle of UFO scene with the magazine, conferences, TV shows, books and radio interviews so its not surprising that hes a wealth of knowledge on the subject.

Ive always enjoyed listening to Birnes, despite occasionally wanting him to back up and drill down into one or two of his 'revelations'.

I look forward to your eventual interview with him on CoC.

 

[valiens]

I look forward to your eventual interview with him on CoC.

Ha. I think it's funnier if I continue to not interview him and keep asking him why he never comes on the show.

 

[mikec]

Every one seems to agree, Corso was a good soldier.

My gut feeling is that "maybe" he had some insight into some mysterious workings surrounding crashed stuff.

But - More likely - he was asked to create a fanciful story, sprinkled with some truths, as a did-information ploy.

If he was a good soldier, he would say yes, and do his duty.

 

[Mothra]

Gene, here's what I don't get about all this Birnes-bashing (not from you):

He made it pretty clear, I thought, which stories he believed, which he didn't, and which were gray areas. In all three he tries to play them out to what he thinks their logical conclusions are. Of those, he said he doesn't 100% believe the Corso story. Personally, he has problems with it too--it's a gray area--even though he wrote the book bringing it to its logical conclusion.

What about that is underhanded and evil? Anyone? Whatever else you may not like about him, the dude isn't Greer, I promise you. Nor is he Paola who actually does believe everything.

Lets be clear Jeremy - Regarding Greer, I just meant the way Bill talks is like a locomotive with no brakes, a lot like Greer. The Paola Harris comment was in response to Bill stating that with UFO magazine, he just puts the information out there for people to judge. Thats what Paola Harris does (or says she does). Sorry bad examples. simma down now.

 

[Kieran]

Irishseeker:

What agenda do you think Bill has? He's a successful writer--was a novelist before he came to the UFO world--has a successful TV show and a magazine. I dunno what his finances are but I'm guessing he could retire now and live happily ever after. I think if he has an agenda it's simply kind of what Gene was getting at: The writer in him loves a good story and this field is full of 'em. But that doesn't mean he's blind to the fact that they are often times lies or embellishments. I just think he revels in them equally because they trigger that creative impulse in him.

I find that to be the case with a lot of people in this field who defend, for instance, Billy Meier. Something about that wild, imaginative hoax really does speak to people on different levels. That's all well and good, but the second you lose sight of the fact that at its core is a con job and probably a cult...well...that's when we've got problems. Bill, to my knowledge, doesn't do that. He can explain Billy Meier with the same exasperation as the true believer but at the end of it, he'll tell you it's crap.The exasperation comes from his drive to tell stories and that one's a whopper!

(Please note that this is from someone who has taken UFO Magazine to task in the past for printing too much crap.)

SUMMARY: Bill Birnes talks fast but that doesn't mean he's fast-talking.

Jeremy
Bill birnes agenda is simple, he runs a business writeing stuff that centres around ufos. it is a business hopeing to gain money at the end of the day or else he wouldnt be doing it. Plus he stars, and is listed as a producer for the program "ufo hunters" While i dont begrudge a individual earning from a subject they love!! The problem i have is how does he go about exerciseing the privileged position he holds within ufology.

Look we have the normal public, skeptics, debunkers, out there who redicule this subject every day when they hear it in the media or read about it in the newspapers. So produceing wild and imaginative storys that arent based on fact or honesty simply does not cut it for me.

Look i give you example, why i think Bill Birnes could be potentially harmful to the subject.
Recently i watched "ufo hunters" The program is lacking on many levels. Anyway if my memory serves me well. Bill birnes was researching contactees? One of the contactees was Black, and the other was White. Bill was haveing a conversation with the black contactee at his home, takeing in all the information that he could get from the individual.

What shocked me was his statement. The individual in question was pretty much clueless to the situation that was happening to him. Bill Birnes tells the guy straight out you are a alien hybrid!! Seriously he barely no's the guy, and he tell's him that he is a alien hybrid need i say anymore!!

look this rule should be used at all times. People are watching!!
Honesty and facts is what we should strife to give, simply dont feed the skeptics,and debunkers with nonsense.
We debate on the forum because we are like minded individuals The world is virtually closed minded, and blind to the reality of "ufos" "work with what you have,not with what you dont have"

 

[Gareth]

What shocked me was his statement. The individual in question was pretty much clueless to the situation that was happening to him. Bill Birnes tells the guy straight out you are a alien hybrid!! Seriously he barely no's the guy, and he tell's him that he is a alien hybrid need i say anymore!!

Hmmm, that seems a bit dodgy. But remember, it is a TV show and TV is more about entertainment than anything else.

 

[Kieran]

Hmmm, that seems a bit dodgy. But remember, it is a TV show and TV is more about entertainment than anything else.

Like i siad in my post Gareth, Bill is the producer!! tv show or no tv show If bill wants to produce entertainment go to "hollywood" this is reality to must of us, not entertainment, treat it as such.

 

[CapnG]

Dear god... listening to Birnes is exhausting, I don't know how Birnes himself keeps it up! He makes the term "motormouth" seem weak and non-descript! Slow down man, this isn't Larry King!

In regards to the whole Roswell/timeship theory. David brings up what appears to be a valid argument with the whole "apple product in the 1900s" comparison but in reality it's invalid. One has to assume that if the idea underlying the timeship theory is that they intended to send the ship back to that time, then clearly the key component is that time (ie 1947). An advanced intelligence (future us, presumably) would be smart enough to recognize when technological development was on the cusp of something and therefore when to give it a nudge.

I also think David's assumptions are totally wrong about technology and time. All you have to do is look at where we are now. 200 years ago we were burning whale oil to light lamps. 100 years ago we were only just getting to the combustion engine. 50 years ago computers took up a warehouse and needed thousands of hand punched cards to do basic math. 15 years ago cell phones were the size of a patio brick and were just phones. 5 years ago there was no such thing Youtube.

Notice the trend? We went from not having penecillin to recognizing the existence of DNA to mapping the entire human genome in ONE century. Imagine where we'll be one century from now. I'm thinking completely artificial cloned lifeforms is not outside the box...

Maybe we should interview Corso's son next.

If you do, for the love of god nail him on that irradiated food bullshit. Apparently his dad ate ONE steak and a plate of strawberries that had been irradiated for preservation and concluded it was safe for daily consumption. WHAT!? That's like saying "If I smoke ONE cigarette, I'm not likely to get lung cancer, therefore cigarettes are safe." Feet to the fire Gene, make it happen!

 

[Mothra]

I also think David's assumptions are totally wrong about technology and time. All you have to do is look at where we are now. 200 years ago we were burning whale oil to light lamps. 100 years ago we were only just getting to the combustion engine. 50 years ago computers took up a warehouse and needed thousands of hand punched cards to do basic math. 15 years ago cell phones were the size of a patio brick and were just phones. 5 years ago there was no such thing Youtube.

CaptG - Its funny I was thinking about this very same thing on my way to work today. There are labs that grow human tissue, like ears on the backs of Mice. They are in the development stage of re-growing human teeth. They can attach electrodes to your brain and you can control just about anything you can interface with. They've actually mapped the brain signals that signal muscle and motor skills. They don't need to drill into your head either. They have headset prototypes that you can wear.

However the only thing that appears to have really languished is the Space Program. It lost its vision many many years ago. How disappointing that no one looks up at the stars anymore.

 

[status4]

I also have some problem with Birnes saying "I'm just a publisher", so, does that mean you take no responsibility for the content you produce? OK, I mean that's fine to do business that way, but don't be surprised when people stop taking you seriously after a while.

 

[Gareth]

However the only thing that has really languished is the Space Program. It lost its vision many many years ago.

The space program we know about anyway. Im inclined to believe to a certain degree the theories of a secret space program.

 

[valiens]

Like i siad in my post Gareth, Bill is the producer!! tv show or no tv show If bill wants to produce entertainment go to "hollywood" this is reality to must of us, not entertainment, treat it as such.

He's not a producer with creative control, though. That much I know.