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Ray Stanford has a photo of the Socorro craft & Martin Willis has seen it and is impressed but...
- Thread starter EQ42
- Start date
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Bob Watson
Paranormal Adept
Thank you sir! I do believe that it exist. I have a great admiration for Chris and his work as such I truly beleve he seen the pics. My only complaint is that the pics are not released. It is my hope you and Chris can work with Ray to get the pics released.
Thanks for not taking me wrong.
I just want the truth where ever that truth leads.
Best always
Bob
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Bob Watson
Paranormal Adept
Chris has seen the pictures im sure he could tell if it was a "roswell slide"
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Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
i don't see the point in discussing any aspect of it. to even talk about the distance of the object from the camera, like this is some kind of reality makes no sense. until an image becomes public only then can we talk about evidence. at least with the slides we had a mummy to look at and respond to. responding to what people say is true and factual...well with that sort of proof you may as well go make a religion while you are at it. while i appreciate greatly that credible people like Chris has seen Stanford's work, if it's not out in the public eye to be critiqued and responded to then it's really not worth talking about. it's just baiting.
Bob Watson
Paranormal Adept
This kind of thing adds nothing to the discussion. .I believe the photo has been leaked...
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Despite being promised a website and public release of these photos back in the Summer of 2015... all within a month or two... then short delays but still assured release in 2015... it never happened... now it seems only some "enhanced images" will be shopped around at MUFON conferences for presentation purposes that cost money to attend. This is very similar to what happened with the Roswell Slides except the promotion is being done exclusively at MUFON gatherings.
These people have already proven they do not keep their word. You just want to believe? Is this psychological manipulation? Don't trust anyone involved, imo, since these people are already proven baiters and unreliable.
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There was never a 'promised' release date. We have been trying to get permision in various forms. The Mufon Symposium is my latest attempt to get it in front of as many people as possible in one hour. I do not know if that will even happen. Your last paragraph is total bullshit. I guess you do not know that the audience can photograph the slide and there will be videos made. Attention seeking? Thats laughable. I never said the original will not be displayed, only that a detailed clean up of this 1964 picture shows more data and provides distance and height, thus allowing for a good estimate of its size. Stop acting like a child who did not get the toy he asked for Christmas. My goal has always been to get the photo out, not to make money from it. If Ray is kind enough to let us show it in Orlando then it will be done there. But after that it will be out there for the public to view. If he does not, then so be it but I am not promising anything since I do not have the final say. We have been working on this release for 2 years. Many trips and conversations and a personal cost of time and money. The only mind game is in your head. If I had control I would have simply posted it on the Internet a long time ago and let everyone do their own analysis, for free. Last post here as some just want the pipe to play their song for them, but that is not reality.
It will come, just not on anyones time table but Ray's.
It will come, just not on anyones time table but Ray's.
Socorro = Ben Moss? You seem to be Ben, yes?
Is Tony not working on this project anymore? What happened to Tony?
When I used the word "promised", I based that on the idea that was used that there was a handshake "We have a gentleman's agreement with Ray..." about getting the information out there ASAP. All that needed to be done was for Tony to do the scans and post these to the Internet. The implications were clear that this information would be just weeks [or a month or two] away from release in August 2015. In other words, there were zero hold-ups to releasing the photos other than to gather and scan the negatives or photos. In other words, Ray was not withholding any information or photos about Socorro. Why? The handshake and "gentleman's agreement" was already done and agreed to, so that would not become an issue for further delays.
I'm sorry. I don't want to bump this thread, as is being done recently, with no new information available, so I'm not posting here now to get it noticed over and over with nothing new from Ben, Tony, or Ray. I'm assuming the Socorro "screen name" is also Ben Moss. Unfortunately, this pattern of "delays" has a long previous history with Ray, so it's really no surprise what has happened again despite "the handshake" and what we were led to believe by gentleman's agreement. I don't expect anything new but more delays, so "good luck" with the handshakes and getting anything released in 2016.
Surely, we can expect these original photos [with no enhancements or alterations] to be released before the end of 2016 or not?
Is Tony not working on this project anymore? What happened to Tony?
When I used the word "promised", I based that on the idea that was used that there was a handshake "We have a gentleman's agreement with Ray..." about getting the information out there ASAP. All that needed to be done was for Tony to do the scans and post these to the Internet. The implications were clear that this information would be just weeks [or a month or two] away from release in August 2015. In other words, there were zero hold-ups to releasing the photos other than to gather and scan the negatives or photos. In other words, Ray was not withholding any information or photos about Socorro. Why? The handshake and "gentleman's agreement" was already done and agreed to, so that would not become an issue for further delays.
I'm sorry. I don't want to bump this thread, as is being done recently, with no new information available, so I'm not posting here now to get it noticed over and over with nothing new from Ben, Tony, or Ray. I'm assuming the Socorro "screen name" is also Ben Moss. Unfortunately, this pattern of "delays" has a long previous history with Ray, so it's really no surprise what has happened again despite "the handshake" and what we were led to believe by gentleman's agreement. I don't expect anything new but more delays, so "good luck" with the handshakes and getting anything released in 2016.
Surely, we can expect these original photos [with no enhancements or alterations] to be released before the end of 2016 or not?
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JeanLucPicard
Paranormal Maven
BEST REPLY EVER
JeanLucPicard
Paranormal Maven
Is there a reason not to think its being absurdly delayed because the alleged photo is filled with errors because it probably is fake? and they're trying to patch them all? whats the point of not sharing such thing ¿?
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withoutlimits09
Paranormal Adept
I would bet that Ray Stanford has zoomed in so much and altered the image to such an extreme, simple film grain is starting to look like shapes and "UFOs"
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withoutlimits09
Paranormal Adept
Some examples of basic film artifacts. If you freeze that video at any moment you can see dozens of "UFOs" and saucer/egg shaped "crafts"
withoutlimits09
Paranormal Adept
Look at all the egg shaped crafts. Now imagine old Ray, with no imaging background and zero certification in optics, sitting in photoshop adding contrast, and extra sharpening to a few of those film artifacts.....You bet it will start to look egg shaped, with some "landing gears" coming down.
The whole idea of a "gear" in itself sounds like 60s technology. These crafts can hover but need mechanical gears to set down? Come on, mechanical collapsible antennas are not even used anymore. You don't see "Gears" on any modern design. I would bet my life Ray has spent 50 years enhancing film grain.
The whole idea of a "gear" in itself sounds like 60s technology. These crafts can hover but need mechanical gears to set down? Come on, mechanical collapsible antennas are not even used anymore. You don't see "Gears" on any modern design. I would bet my life Ray has spent 50 years enhancing film grain.
According to Ben Moss aka Socorro, here are the specifications about these 2 photos:
The camera that was used [see quotes from Ben Moss above] is a basic but popular 35mm film camera that was rugged built, known as the brick, but it did not use a professional high quality lens. The 35mm image quality is not likely to be high quality in 1964 unless Ray used a special fine grain high resolution film, which I'm not even certain that film was available in those years. This high resolution film would normally have to be obtained from a specialized camera store or direct from Kodak, and it would need special processing too. I seriously doubt Ray used this special film. In the online youtube presentation Ben Moss and Tony gave it was said that the film used was Kodachrome Color Slide film, but that is not necessarily the same film used when Ray took his "egg shaped" photos months later.
But, 35mm film is not a large format film, so using only a standard 50mm lens greatly limits the resolution quality of any object taken at a distance. Please note Ben says the objects were about 6 miles away. I'm sorry, but anyone expecting a 50mm lens using 35mm film to capture any detail of an object 6 miles away does not understand film photography. According to Zamora the size of the object he saw was not that large, it's much smaller than a passenger jet or passenger hot air balloon, so there is no way much detail of that craft could be photographed at 6 miles away.
If the objects were only a few hundred yards away, then some excellent details could be obtained. But it's not possible to obtain details with objects that are miles away. Not even a mile away.
Ray's Socorro slides or photos of these objects miles away will have terrible image quality compared to the Roswell Slides. Objects 6 miles away taken with the equipment as described above proves to me just how insane this thread has become. It's over 500 posts, and this is what we've been waiting for? Seriously? This is pure hype with the "believer sheep" not understanding the real limits of this kind of photography.
Forget it. Save your money unless you just want to believe and spend it to go to the MUFON conference about Socorro, but don't do it just to see these "two photos". Remember the two Roswell Slides? On that positive note...
Nothing should be accepted except the original unaltered 35mm film/negatives or the color slides. Printed photos or enhanced images are not acceptable and are pure deception, imo.
I'm over and out here... this thread is poison and a deadly waste of time. This is a perfect example of what's wrong with Ufology.
The camera that was used [see quotes from Ben Moss above] is a basic but popular 35mm film camera that was rugged built, known as the brick, but it did not use a professional high quality lens. The 35mm image quality is not likely to be high quality in 1964 unless Ray used a special fine grain high resolution film, which I'm not even certain that film was available in those years. This high resolution film would normally have to be obtained from a specialized camera store or direct from Kodak, and it would need special processing too. I seriously doubt Ray used this special film. In the online youtube presentation Ben Moss and Tony gave it was said that the film used was Kodachrome Color Slide film, but that is not necessarily the same film used when Ray took his "egg shaped" photos months later.
But, 35mm film is not a large format film, so using only a standard 50mm lens greatly limits the resolution quality of any object taken at a distance. Please note Ben says the objects were about 6 miles away. I'm sorry, but anyone expecting a 50mm lens using 35mm film to capture any detail of an object 6 miles away does not understand film photography. According to Zamora the size of the object he saw was not that large, it's much smaller than a passenger jet or passenger hot air balloon, so there is no way much detail of that craft could be photographed at 6 miles away.
If the objects were only a few hundred yards away, then some excellent details could be obtained. But it's not possible to obtain details with objects that are miles away. Not even a mile away.
Ray's Socorro slides or photos of these objects miles away will have terrible image quality compared to the Roswell Slides. Objects 6 miles away taken with the equipment as described above proves to me just how insane this thread has become. It's over 500 posts, and this is what we've been waiting for? Seriously? This is pure hype with the "believer sheep" not understanding the real limits of this kind of photography.
Forget it. Save your money unless you just want to believe and spend it to go to the MUFON conference about Socorro, but don't do it just to see these "two photos". Remember the two Roswell Slides? On that positive note...
Nothing should be accepted except the original unaltered 35mm film/negatives or the color slides. Printed photos or enhanced images are not acceptable and are pure deception, imo.
I'm over and out here... this thread is poison and a deadly waste of time. This is a perfect example of what's wrong with Ufology.
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withoutlimits09
Paranormal Adept
As someone who has studied photography at the University level and worked in that field professionally, I can say that you made some very good points here. Everything you said should really cast doubt on the "clarity" of the object. The circumstances surrounding the photograph along with the equipment used, shouldn't lend itself to anything earth shattering. I really fear we have a case of very creative minds looking too closely at film grain that has been heavily processed in post.
IsaacKoi
Paranormal Maven
Really??
Does anyone have a link to the presentation referring to the use of Kodachrome Colour Slide film (ideally with an indication of the time at which Kodachrome film is mentioned)?
(I've found a few relevant podcasts on Youtube, but they tend to be two hours long or longer so I'd rather not listen to the entirety of all of them in the hope that on them contains this snippet...).