Ray Stanford — May 18, 2014 Episode

[marduk]

Also, he dodged Chris' question about others failing to see a massive UFO -- someone should have made a report or come forward with a story. His explanation about seeing what you want to see was interesting, but it's simply too broad a theory to explain away a complete lack of additional sightings across a densely populated area.

I can tell you I saw 4 large disc-shaped craft in broad daylight flying over one of the largest cities in Canada while I was stuck in traffic, and no-one but me seemed to notice.

Oh, and I didn't think to grab my cell phone, either.

 

[Extra Postage Required]

Instantly a top Paracast show. Ill say quickly thanks Gene for asking Ray to upload a photo. As expected, the answer was 'not at this time'. I share the frustration of all in this matter but I am nowhere near using his refusal as a reason to doubt him. I suppose it comes down to the fact that Chris and James Fox amongst others have seen parts of Ray's work. If absolutely no-one had been allowed to see anything then I too would be calling Ray out. But that is not the case.
I suppose I would want Gene to ask Ray in future if he had any plans for his material to be handled should he die suddenly. Morbid I know, but if Ray's work is even a tenth of what I hope it is, it's something that needs looking at.

During the episode I was mesmerised by talk of gigantic craft and many further details of the Socorro case.

Im totally unapologetic about my love for the Paracast and my blind faith in the presenters' honesty. Until proven otherwise, I'm happy to take Chris at his word that Ray is the real deal. Its obvious Ray has zero in common with Greer - he has a proven track record as an investigator and author and there are snippets from Ray online. Did anyone else watch Ray's presentation at NASA on paleontology? Can't say I absorbed it all but it was very interesting and proof positive that there are serious scientists who take Ray seriously in at least one field. That's one more than all the UFO jokers out there.

Fantastic episode that demonstrates why this is a brilliant paranormal show. Like anything, it has faults and slips but show me another show that gets Ray Stanford on spilling all these great nuggets?

Bravo.

Agree that this was a seminal episode for The Paracast. I had not heard much about Ray Stanford until Chris started talking about him and getting the opportunity to hear him unbridled was great.

That being said, I too am frustrated by the "not now" attitude when it comes to publishing new or groundbreaking information. Ray's been doing this for 50 years. How long do we have to wait for this great stuff?!? Time and time again, I come across the longtime oldsters in the UFO field that seem to be constantly preening their material for the "groundbreaking" release that never happens. Just hope that all of Ray's stuff gets out before he passes. It would be a crying shame to see this material get dumped in the trash heap by someone cleaning up that had no appreciation for what it truly is.

 

[Randall]

Another excellent show. My first comment is that information about the genuine markings on the craft associated with the 1964 Socorro New Mexico Sighting has been around for years and is included in the USI article on the incident. So why that info would come as some kind of revelation for Stanford was somewhat surprising.

The giant UFO Stanford reported seeing over Matagorda Island off the coast of Texas on Feb 29 1968 was impressive sounding, but why weren't there hundreds of reports of these or get any photos or film? Thousands of people should have been able to see that UFO, and for God's sake's why did opening the office get priority over getting photos of a four mile wide UFO? Ray hypothesizes some sort of mind control or mass fear. But I have to applaud Chris for his insistence that there should have been more witnesses. I look forward to seeing the photo uploads Ray offered to post for us on his other cases!

Regardless of whatever one might conclude from the content, Ray was an engaging guest, he came across as being very sincere, and I also enjoyed the segment on paleontology very much too.

 

[kanakaris]

Is that the same Ray Stanford who received telepathic messages from Space People in the fifties ?Who was associated with Soulcraft , the occult group from fascist William Pelley ?Who had contacts with 'The Watchers' , not unlike Adamski and Meyer.Is that the same Ray Stanford who had plans to build a time machine "the Hilarion Accelerator."?
We all here laugh with the fraud Steven Greer ,but what about this man who with his 'Project Starlight' tried to attract ufo's with his circle of spinning lights ?
Steven Greer +George Adamski+Billie Meyer =Ray Stanford.
That's how it looks for now.

 

[Polterwurst]

Well, if you think there can never be anything to people who claim to be psychic, that's obviously how it looks for you.

I agree that there is much reason to be skeptical, but on the other hand, the contributions to paleontology, which are being acknowledged by scientists, strongly indicate that he's not a fraud. Maybe he fell in with the wrong crowd, maybe at times he was desperate for money and tried things he later regretted.

About the contactees, as I've said before, I guess there is a good chance that Adamski or even Meyer did see something once and then proceeded to fake their evidence, because they liked the publicity. And Adamski at least seems to have been quite charismatic. Maybe Stanford, who seems to be the unconventional, alternative type, to say the least, got attracted by the whole "circus" because it was so unusual and, let's say, colorful. Back in these times, all the psychedelic flower power hippie stuff was still unheard of.

For my own part, I do believe there's people with genuine psychic abilities. Call me a true believer, I don't care. Parapsychology seems to indicate, these abilities are stronger or more developped in "creative extroverted" people, as they are the group of people who score best in ESP tests. In other words, you will find unconventional, eccentric people with genuine abilities in the field.

But unfortunately, there will also sure as hell be con artists and fraudsters, too (although I guess they are not as numerous than skeptics think, because there's probably also lots of people who are genuinely convinced of what they are doing and saying, but actually have problems differentiating between pure imagination and actual external information or who just overestimate their abilities). If someone like that finds that his chosen lifestyle will get him into financial trouble, easy money making schemes might come to mind.

I think it would be a legitimate question - if done in a civil way - in a future show to ask him about these things. I'd especially like to know why they named their alleged time machine "Hilarion". Sounds more like something a Jim Moseley or Groucho Marx may have come up with.

I mean, a time machine called "Happy"? What were they smoking? And who the heck would ever believe that something like that could be genuine in the first place? If people bought that, they must have been even more stoned.

 

[flipper]

Ray is the best. Thanks to all, especially Ray

 

[Double Nought Spy]

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Ray doesn't want to get involved in the forum byplay, but asked me to post this on his behalf:

Hello, Gene,

Responding to my description on The Paracast of that huge object hovering in the area where ~ nine hours before the B 52 had vanished, one of your listeners wrote asking me, wondering about the altitude of the large, hovering object with jets reconnoitering it. I thought for sake of the information you might wish to post my answer, which follows. If not, no problem, either.:

In response to an altitude suggestion of three miles: The huge object and the condensation trails of jets reconnoitering it were well over that altitude, because 3 miles is only 15,840 feet, and condensation wakes usually only form in that kind of fairly dry air at, or above, around 30,000 to 35,000 feet.(5.68 to 6.6 miles). So I'd guess the jets and anomalous object were at the least at that altitude, and my memory of the angular elevation (very roughly 8 degrees -- but that might be somewhat off, after the 46 years) at ~ 42 miles distance of Matagorda Island from Corpus Christi, would suggest that around 35,000 feet might be a somewhat realistic altitude figure.

I think the bomber might have been considerably lower when it disappeared off radar, but that's roughly the altitude at which the huge object and the jets were seemingly located as we watched them on the azimuth of Matagorda Island, from high up in our office building, approximately nine hours after the B 52's disappearance.As to why an object associated with the B 52's disappearance roughly nine hours earlier would still be around, who knows? Might they have just been flaunting the abduction, figuratively thumbing their noses at the USAF, as though saying, "...so we sit here and you can't do anything about it. So, kiss off, fly-boys."?But that's only human in-the-dark speculation. Perhaps we cannot understand what happened and why.

I've finally done my duty in reporting, although it has taken me years to get up the 'guts' to so openly announce what we saw and the seemingly related disappearance of the B 52. Frankly, when the Snelling & Snelling crew and I saw what was happening (jets reconnoitering that huge object), the best description of our state was 'dumbfounded', and when I then heard what had happened in that object's location about nine hours earlier, I was truly startled, just thinking about the possible implications.I'd surely like to see the gun-camera films taken from the investigating jets.

 

[marduk]

Another excellent show. My first comment is that information about the genuine markings on the craft associated with the 1964 Socorro New Mexico Sighting has been around for years and is included in the USI article on the incident. So why that info would come as some kind of revelation for Stanford was somewhat surprising.

While I agree the Socorro incident was a seminal case, I fail to understand what more we can learn from it 50 years later, and why it still warrants such discussion and debate today.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that wouldn't this energy be better spent trying to gather new data rather than debate about the past?

 

[Randall]

While I agree the Socorro incident was a seminal case, I fail to understand what more we can learn from it 50 years later, and why it still warrants such discussion and debate today.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that wouldn't this energy be better spent trying to gather new data rather than debate about the past?

I tend to agree, but once in a while discussing the classic cases for the benefit of those new to the field is OK too. They are from a time when cases were taken more seriously, there were fewer hoaxes, and the level of technology was in higher contrast to the objects reported, making it easier to discern reports of alien craft from our own.

 

[drudiak]

Ray Stanford has sent out the following to people on his mailing list and has given us permission to post here:

Hello list members,

This is to let you know that The Paracast posted on Sunday, May 18, an interview with me.

You can hear the interview by going to:

https://www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_140518.mp3

On April 24, this year, we passed the 50th anniversary of the Socorro CE III, so naturally I was asked in the interview about some of my findings on that case, which was the subject of my 211-page 1976 book, Socorro Saucer in A Pentagon Pantry. IF that interests you at all, please listen to what I said in response, including my account of finding -- with James Fox's encouragement -- a 1964 letter in the National Archive, hand-written by J. Allen Hynek to the U.S. Air Force's Division of Foreign Technology at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in which he draws for them the red 'insignia' (or whatever it represented) that Zamora saw on the side of the ellipsoidal vehicle he observed.

Hynek's letter vindicates what I decided to tell the world only after Lonnie Zamora's death (to save him any potential embarrassment), that the arc with a vertical arrow under it, and a line underneath, was fictional. How does Hynek's letter substantiate that? Well, because in his 1964 letter, Hynek drew the real item for the USAF Division of Foreign Technology, and it was simply an inverted V with three lines. -- no arc over an arrow, at all. I doubt Hynek, their employee at the time, would have been kidding the USAF's Division of Foreign Technology, and believe Hynek's letter should be taken at face value.

The drawing in Hynek's letter confirms what he had told my wife and me when he visited us in San Antonio, Texas, in 1970, about six years after the Socorro event, when he said, "It seems Zamora told me it was just an inverted 'V' with some lines across it." See page 208, paragraph 3, in Appendix A titled An Obfuscated Red "Insignia"?, in my 1976 book, Socorro Saucer in A Pentagon Pantry, Blueapple Books, 1976, US hardcover first edition.

<Big snip>

Now let's move on to another very important and significant UFO case I discussed in detail in myThe Paracast interview, and it's one I'd bet most of you readers have never heard about.

Why so important and significant?

BECAUSE IT INVOLVES THE SEEMING PERMANENT ABDUCTION BY A HUGE UFO, OF A B 52 BOMBER AND ITS EIGHT-MEMBER CREW!

I received Ray's email and sent out the following comments to Ray's email list. My main point here, is every time Ray has written or said something to me that could be corroborated through other sources, I have always found his information to check out. Here it was the Socorro symbol and the mysterious B-52 disappearance near Corpus Christi.

Email title: SOCORRO: Concerning the red 'insignia' Hynek drew for the USAF Division of Foreign Technology, and the seeming 2-28-68, B 52 abduction by a UFO, case...


I would like to add a few things to this:

The inverted V with three bars through it was being reported in the media before Ray even got to Socorro four days later and finally questioned Zamora (as I recall) on day 5. So despite some nonsense on the Net, Ray certainly did NOT invent that insignia, somehow getting Zamora to change his story. Examples of the media mentioning the symbol in the days immediately following:

1. Zamora interviewed by Walter Shrode on KSRC, I think the day after the incident. Transcript at my website and link to recording:

Socorro_Zamora_interview

SHRODE: And someone said that the markings that you saw was an upside down “V” with three lines running through it.

ZAMORA: No sir, I couldn’t tell you that, because they still don’t want me to say nothing about the markings.

2. Walter Shrode interviewing Hynek had him saying it (maybe April 29, after Hynek arrived at about the same time as Ray the evening of April 28), my transcript and link to recording:

Socorro_Hynek_interview

SHRODE: Well, about this marking, can you tell us how he described this marking and what the marking was?

HYNEK: Yes, I see no reason why not. He described it to me as an inverted “V” with a sort of a bar across it...

3. AP quoted Hynek saying it:

AP Story, April 30 ( e.g. Frederick MD News): “The scientist [Hynek] also discussed the markings that Zamora said he saw on the side of the object, a red, inverted V with bars through it.”

4. First responder and Zamora's friend Sgt. Sam Chavez was quoted saying it:

Hobbs NM Daily News, April 28, front page: “State Police Sgt. Sam Chavez said he was told by Socorro policeman Lonnie Zamora that the UFO he saw Friday… had red markings on its silvery side. Chavez said Zamora told him the design was an inverted V with three bars crossing it, but that the Air Force had told him not to discuss the markings.”

5. AP attributed the description directly to Zamora himself:

AP Story, April 29 (e.g., San Antonio TX Light, Danville VA Bee): “Officer Lonnie Zamora said the object he saw last Friday was a brilliant white. He said there was a red marking on it like an upside down V with three lines across the top, through the middle and at the bottom.” (San Antonio paper also showed a drawing of the object with the symbol, said to be based on "newspaper accounts")

6. Ray has a recording of Socorro police dispatcher Mike Martinez saying it. As Ray notes in his book: "Martinez quoted Zamora in Spanish, "...un 'V' invertido, con tres líneas debajo," meaning exactly what it says, "an inverted 'V' with three lines beneath it"


In fact, I haven't been able to find a similar description of what became known as the real symbol in this early reporting. That seems to have appeared later.

Regarding the disappearing B-52, I first heard this from Ray while speaking to him on the telephone a few years ago. He gave me the date and the place, and while still on the phone, I did an electronic newspaper archive search and quickly came up with 3 or 4 newspaper articles verifying everything Ray told me, which I forwarded on to Ray. Glad to help.

The only thing I could add to this, is one possible eyewitness in one of the articles said they saw a flash of light in the sky at the time, which might suggest an explosion, perhaps of a fuel tank. (Much like the TWA 800 disaster) But you would expect they would find debris and oil slicks, and the B-52 should not suddenly have disappeared from radar. In TWA 800, e.g., the explosion broke the cockpit away from the passenger compartment, which flew on for a while, but basically still two big chunks of plane which should still have shown up on radar, one tumbling out of the sky, and the other flying on before going into a dive and crashing. The debris field was quite large and not at all difficult to find. Even a plane diving directly into the ocean should have left some debris at the surface from impact and oil slicks.

 

[kanakaris]

While I agree the Socorro incident was a seminal case, I fail to understand what more we can learn from it 50 years later, and why it still warrants such discussion and debate today.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that wouldn't this energy be better spent trying to gather new data rather than debate about the past?

Or maybe release some data from old cases that one has supposedly laying around...

 

[marduk]

Or maybe release some data from old cases that one has supposedly laying around...

Call me a cynic, but I think that would have already happened if it was going to happen.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

I received Ray's email and sent out the following comments to Ray's email list. My main point here, is every time Ray has written or said something to me that could be corroborated through other sources, I have always found his information to check out. Here it was the Socorro symbol and the mysterious B-52 disappearance near Corpus Christi.

Email title: SOCORRO: Concerning the red 'insignia' Hynek drew for the USAF Division of Foreign Technology, and the seeming 2-28-68, B 52 abduction by a UFO, case...

Thanks for your post, David. It's very informative. Real research! Real corroboration that can be verified! That's so refreshing. I've long been a fan of your work and I look forward to seeing more of it.

 

[Muadib]

People like Ray Stanford and Derrel Simms continue to prove the old adage that everything is bigger in Texas, even the bullsh*t. Even though I'm skeptical of Rays claims, which he repeated on this show (photos of UFO's so close you can see inside the domes, giant Independence Day sized UFO's that nobody can see but himself and his wife, etc) there's no denying that the man is intelligent, well spoken and knowledgeable about the UFO field, and I personally agree with his and Chris's fears about religious fundamentalist nutcases and their particular brand of bible based nonsense polluting science and the political realm.

Having said that, I'll continue to remain a "boo bird" until Ray steps up and releases some of this evidence, instead of telling us all to just wait a bit longer. If that makes me a "boo bird" then so be it. The funny thing is, there wouldn't be so many "boo birds" if Ray would just put up or shut up, it's hard to argue with something like a UFO photo or film that's so clear and distinct you can see the inside of it. If I'm "booing" anything, it's that. Ray claims to have evidence that could legitimize the UFO field overnight in the minds of everyone but the most ardent skeptics and he won't release it, because, well, science or skeptics or something. He has no problem telling us all about it, but you just can't see it, unless you're James Fox or an unnamed astrophysicist. Gee, where have we heard something like that before? Only time will tell if Ray is ever going to prove myself and the other "boo birds" wrong, and honestly, as a fellow UFO enthusiast, I hope to hell he does, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'd also love to know if Chris has personally seen the photo/film/whatever of what looks like a "robot" (Ray's words, not mine) inside of a UFO? Somehow, I doubt it.

 

[Wade]

Full Disclosure I am one of those people who aren't really all that tweeked because of Ray's non-disclosure but that is probably because I am not particularly interested in obtaining evidence or proving anything as much as studying the effect of the phenomenon on society and individuals, I too trust Chris''s judgement on the man. There may be some of you guys who may not agree with my justification for being more lenient on Ray but I would point out that the man isn't in our face all the time, he's not on Coast to Coast every frickin' month, doesn't even have a Web site, doesnt push merchandise or even seem to have an agenda and from what I can see what few books he had out are some 30-40 years old. If he was still cranking out a lot of books and endlessly promoting them and offering himself on various shows instead of having to be cajoled to appear I would also cry foul, but i am willing to cut him some slack. Thanx for coming on Ray and yeah I agree you guys, you did hit the trifecta, which reminds me....Go California Chrome !!!

 

[kanakaris]

Full Disclosure I am one of those people who aren't really all that tweeked because of Ray's non-disclosure but that is probably because I am not particularly interested in obtaining evidence or proving anything as much as studying the effect of the phenomenon on society and individuals, I too trust Chris''s judgement on the man. There may be some of you guys who may not agree with my justification for being more lenient on Ray but I would point out that the man isn't in our face all the time, he's not on Coast to Coast every frickin' month, doesn't even have a Web site, doesnt push merchandise or even seem to have an agenda and from what I can see what few books he had out are some 30-40 years old. If he was still cranking out a lot of books and endlessly promoting them and offering himself on various shows instead of having to be cajoled to appear I would also cry foul, but i am willing to cut him some slack. Thanx for coming on Ray and yeah I agree you guys, you did hit the trifecta, which reminds me....Go California Chrome !!!

Think about his books : a book about the Fatima prophecy where he discovers the messages of Marian apparitions with the help from a Source, that conveniently, is speaking to him in the dialect used by an obscure Yoga sect, that author was previously in.
A book about 'Entities' that explain the reality of man from the heavenly down to a molecular level.
Abook about auras...
Really ?

 

[Paleontologist]

Is that the same Ray Stanford who received telepathic messages from Space People in the fifties? Who was associated with Soulcraft, the occult group from fascist William Pelley? Who had contacts with 'The Watchers', not unlike Adamski and Meyer. Is that the same Ray Stanford who had plans to build a time machine "the Hilarion Accelerator"?
We all here laugh with the fraud Steven Greer, but what about this man who with his 'Project Starlight' tried to attract ufo's with his circle of spinning lights ?
Steven Greer +George Adamski+Billie Meyer =Ray Stanford.
That's how it looks for now.

Word. I can say professionally that Ray Stanford has made excellent contributions to paleontology, but this means nothing in regards to his unreleased UFO "evidence". We also can't take seriously the testimony of people who have seen this "evidence". As well-meaning as those witnesses are, without a full revelation of the materials to the public, we can't assess what they saw. History is full of cases of good earnest people fooled by magic tricks and delusions. Even Stanford's problematic history has no bearing on the quality of his "evidence", although it should give all of us some doubts about whether it even exists. I'm proud to still be a boo-bird.

 

[Paleontologist]

I'm close to positive it couldn't be a "hustle or dodge" based on Chris O'Brien's personal familiarity with Ray Stanford's research, and his impression of the character of the man, over many years. I have a feeling that Stanford's data might produce a shock wave in the public media and thus effect a reaction by a great number of people in this country and elsewhere to the continuing coverup. Given that, I think it's prudent of Stanford to defer releasing his evidence for as long as he sees fit, for his releasing it could produce harsh repercussions in his and his family's lives.

This is the worst reason for giving any credence to Stanford's yet-to-be-revealed "data": a character reference and apocalyptic fears of just how dangerous such revelations will be to the unwitting public. He can sit behind these for the rest of his life.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

A very interesting interview. Ray's accounts of those sightings of giant UFOs were utterly fascinating, and the fact that most of the people wouldn't notice them doesn't surprise me at all.

I remember how not too long ago I was driving down the Periférico avenue in the morning, toward my medical insurer's offices in order to receive my policy. I noticed something very interesting up in the sky: there were a couple of clouds radiating with iridescent colors; a phenomenon with a fairly mundane explanation, of course, but an astounding spectacle worthy to contemplate nonetheless.

Naturally I couldn't slow down nor take a picture --I think I didn't even have a cell phone with a camera back in those days-- but what I found completely odd was that there was ZERO mention of the clouds in the media the next day. Nothing in the newspapers, or TV. Zip, nada.

I don't know if we need to invoke strange magnetic phenomena affecting our perception to explain such reactions. I think most folks nowadays are perfectly conditioned by their daily routine to act as automatons during a great percentage of their waking life :-/

Now, regarding Ray's uncanny ability to detect paleontological treasures, I'm sure I'm not the first to wonder whether his dino-hunting skills have less to do with his visual acuity & intelligence, and perhaps more with other types of abilities, which some people would call psychic for lack of a better word —and yes, I'm one of those people

Saludos,

RPJ