Ray Stanford — May 18, 2014 Episode

[BoyintheMachine]

What I didn't understand from Mr. Stanford is his insistence that the aliens he saw and/or photographed weren't "greys", when he described them as 2 ft tall and with big, light-bulb shaped-heads. His description of them is far too similar to greys for him to claim they aren't greys. I really thought he was going to describe like tall humanoids or something. So that part confused me.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Fairy folk issue once again? If they are real ? in what ever form? they chose to ignore or rather play the cat and mouse game. With all the weapons on this planet surely someone or group would of found out a weakness in its armour if it has any?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Fairy folk issue once again? If they are real ? in what ever form? they chose to ignore or rather play the cat and mouse game. With all the weapons on this planet surely someone or group would of found out a weakness in its armour if it has any?

Who knows. Whenever I decide to play a videogame, I always do so with the assurance that no matter how difficult or challenging, the most harm those 'menacing' foes shooting at me can do is annoy me if I have to respawn to pass the level

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Yes respawn in the month which counts.

 

[Burnt State]

I've been letting all the Stanford stuff settle deep deep into the brain silt before commenting as he's a hard thing to put together given his many incarnations over the years, both UFO related and otherwise. Stanford's lived through generations of UFO investigation and like many others along the way he tripped in and out of contactee weirdness. It's like tripping in and out of Prancercize, Zamfir, or Black Metal. It's all the rage for a while and then before you know it only a few hardcore practitioners are left and everyone else has trended elsewhere to greener pastures.

Stanford's paleontology does not make him psychic. I think that kind of talk positions him as strange guru with second sight skills and returns us to a conversation with him as being in 'special contact.' I don't buy that for a second and "as below" does not always translate to "as above." If you go to the Smithsonian site where Ray is listed along with some other prominent amateur paleontologists you will understand that he has honed his skill and his eye. His hard work and efforts are confirmed with excellent discoveries - but that does not translate into the most important ufologist of all time.



I do some annual fossil hunting near Arkona in Ontario looking for early coral remnants and one day I hope to pocket a real trilobite as opposed to just a vague outline of one. Once you train your eyes to see the specific patterns of the fossil you seek it's amazing how they leap up at you out of the rubble in the forest run-off stream I hunt through. In interviews with Stanford he explains this exact process. He's a tireless hunter that has produced exceptional results.

But, does he have the goods on the UFO photo? That's still a big question. I don't feel that the B-52 helps his case. While a great story, it's only his story with litle by way of support, and it connects some disparate dots to conclude that a giant UFO swallowed up a bomber. Planes do go missing mysteriously and without a lot of evidence often - if they didn't there would be no Bermuda Triangle to ever write about.

The Soccoro incident discussion convinced me that the balloon, hoax angle is silly and that the insignia & coverall discussion in Zamora's early interviews, demonstrate that intel played a role in obfuscating and complicating the story - these cases are always complicated and that's what keeps them alive.



Back to Ray and UFO photos of many races and robots: I remain speechless, doubtful and confused. What high res, scientific environment does one need in such a TED talk & Vimeo era? If he has brilliant imagery then James Fox would have been much more enthusiastic and would be confirming the next movie is gong to be on Stanford's discoveries. If Ray does not produce the goods soon then I think he runs the risk of going down the Ted Phillips' route into obscurity.

Secretly, I hope one day next O'Brien will be laughing at all us birds on the wire for ever having doubted him. But the longer this drags on the higher the odds against that ever happening.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Secretly, I hope one day next O'Brien will be laughing at all us birds on the wire for ever having doubted him. But the longer this drags on the higher the odds of that ever happening.

Ray knows he has a limited amount of time left to make his case. The depth of his analysis goes far beyond mere 1950s-style flying saucers and hubcaps into a new realm of diagnostic clues derived from huge pencil-shaped objects and attendant smaller craft and their ghost images. I'm not an optical physicist, but I am able to tell when someone has ID'd optical processes that appear consistent and predictable. But, the bottom line is that Ray is driving his own car. All I can do is cheer him on and urge him to publish b4 itz 2 late.... zzzz

 

[Muadib]

This is the worst reason for giving any credence to Stanford's yet-to-be-revealed "data": a character reference and apocalyptic fears of just how dangerous such revelations will be to the unwitting public. He can sit behind these for the rest of his life.

I can give you a worse reason. I hate to harp on Chris O'brien, I know he doesn't believe this but I actually have a lot of respect for the man and his work, we just have a difference of opinion when it comes to Ray Stanford, it doesn't mean that I think Chris should denounce him and it doesn't mean that I think he's naive or an idiot, in fact I think quite the opposite about the man. However, no matter how much I may admire Chris, his push to get Ray to release his evidence and his long years of hard work in the trenches of Ufology, I just can't accept such completely paradigm shifting information from Stanford, or anyone else, without seeing what he actually has for myself, and as long as I'm unable to do so, Ray will remain just another Ufologist who loves to make grand claims without backing them up with sufficient evidence, or any evidence for that matter.

Having gotten that out of the way, after listening to this weeks Paracast episode, I have a bone to pick with something Chris said. It was something to the effect of "I don't think someone as up2speed as James Fox would spend 8 days with Ray Stanford if there wasn't something there." I actually agree, I'm sure he wouldn't spend that much time with Ray if he personally didn't believe there was anything to his claims. However, in order to discern exactly how up2speed James Fox is, we need to go back and look at his previous films. If you do that, you'll see that he's been taken in by a number of what I, and a vast majority of semi reasonable Ufologists, including Stanton Friedman: Stanton Friedman - Book Reviews: The Day After Roswell would refer to as bullshit stories or hoaxes. The most prevalent of which was the emphasis he placed on the whole Phillip Corso debacle, including presenting his information and several interviews in not just one, but two of his films, and that information has been largely proven to be completely fraudulent and full of holes.

So, no, I don't think the fact that James Fox spent 8 days with Ray to mean, well, anything. It means James believes in him, but let's be honest, this wouldn't be the first time that James has been taken for a ride. That's not to say I don't respect the man, I think he's probably the Steven Spielberg of UFO documentary directors and I've enjoyed his films immensely, aside from all of the stuff in them that he either got completely wrong or presented without thinking it through, and Phil Corso is just one example. I like James, I like Chris, unfortunately, my personal feelings about them have nothing at all to do with their evidence (or lack thereof) and its validity. We can all make mistakes, some of the most brilliant people in history have been taken in by all kinds of nonsense (Cottingley Fairies, anyone?) It doesn't mean they're lazy, it doesn't mean they're stupid, it speaks more, in my opinion, to their overwhelming need to believe in this kind of thing because it validates their entire world view, not to mention it validates the 20 something years they've spent in this field.

I have no problem with UFO reality, I'm not the uber skeptic some make me out to be, I do however have problems with people who constantly talk up what great evidence they've accumulated and then refuse to share any of it for one ridiculous reason or the other. I need to see it with my own eyes, and if I ever do, and it actually lives up to the hype, I'll be the first person here making a post in apology for doubting Chris, but until that happens, as another poster said in this thread, I remain proud to be a "boo bird."

Ok, enough out of me, back to your regularly scheduled religious arguments, climate change denial and conspiracy nonsense. Peace.

 

[marduk]

Ray knows he has a limited amount of time left to make his case. The depth of his analysis goes far beyond mere 1950s-style flying saucers and hubcaps into a new realm of diagnostic clues derived from huge pencil-shaped objects and attendant smaller craft and their ghost images. I'm not an optical physicist, but I am able to tell when someone has ID'd optical processes that appear consistent and predictable. But, the bottom line is that Ray is driving his own car. All I can do is cheer him on and urge him to publish b4 itz 2 late.... zzzz

Does anyone else have access to his data in case the unfortunate happens and he doesn't release it while he's on this plane of existence?

It seems like something so paradigm-changing should have a contingency plan involved.

 

[kanakaris]

I can give you a worse reason. I hate to harp on Chris O'brien, I know he doesn't believe this but I actually have a lot of respect for the man and his work, we just have a difference of opinion when it comes to Ray Stanford, it doesn't mean I think he's naive or an idiot, in fact I think quite the opposite about the man, but no matter how much I may admire Chris, his push to get Ray to release his evidence and his long years of hard work in the trenches of Ufology, I can't accept such completely paradigm shifting information from Stanford without seeing what he actually has for myself, and as long as I'm unable to do so, Ray will remain just another Ufologist who loves to make grand claims without backing them up with sufficient evidence, or any evidence for that matter.

Having gotten that out of the way, after listening to this weeks Paracast episode, I have a bone to pick with something Chris said. It was something to the effect of "I don't think someone as up2speed as James Fox would spend 8 days with Ray Stanford if there wasn't something there." I actually agree, I'm sure he wouldn't spend that much time with Ray if he personally didn't believe there was anything to his claims. However, in order to discern exactly how up2speed James Fox is, we need to go back and look at his previous films. If you do that, you'll see that he's been taken in by a number of what I, and a vast majority of semi reasonable Ufologists, including Stanton Friedman: Stanton Friedman - Book Reviews: The Day After Roswell would refer to as bullshit stories or hoaxes. The most prevalent of which was the emphasis he placed on the whole Phillip Corso debacle, including presenting his information and several interviews in not just one, but two of his films, and that information has been largely proven to be completely fraudulent and full of holes.

So, no, I don't think the fact that James Fox spent 8 days with Ray to mean, well, anything. It means James believes in him, but let's be honest, this wouldn't be the first time that James has been taken for a ride. That's not to say I don't respect the man, I think he's probably the Steven Spielberg of UFO documentaries and I've enjoyed his films immensely, aside from all of the stuff in them that he either got completely wrong or presented without thinking it through, and Phil Corso is just one example. I like James, I like Chris, unfortunately, my personal feelings about them have nothing at all to do with their evidence (or lack thereof) and its validity. We can all make mistakes, some of the most brilliant people in history have been taken in by all kinds of nonsense (Cottingley Fairies, anyone?) It doesn't mean they're lazy, it doesn't mean they're stupid, it speaks more, in my opinion, to their overwhelming need to believe in this kind of thing because it validates their entire world view, not to mention it validates the 20 something years they've spent in this field. I have no problem with UFO reality, I'm not the uber skeptic some make me out to be, I do however have problems with people who constantly talk up what great evidence they've accumulated and then refuse to share any of it for one ridiculous reason or the other. I need to see it with my own eyes, and if I ever do, and it actually lives up to the hype, I'll be the first person here making a post in apology for doubting Chris, but until that happens, as another poster said in this thread, I remain proud to be a "boo bird."

Ok, enough out of me, back to your regularly scheduled religious arguments, climate change denial and conspiracy nonsense. Peace.

Wow , well said.

 

[dyingsun]

So, what the fuck have you brought to the table yet..expect for being a whining little girl.I have my problems with Mr. Stanford, anyone should have them. This seems like an attempt of a 'skeptic' circle jerk though.Go on, I'll watch the trainwreck.

 

[Burnt State]

Ok, enough out of me, back to your regularly scheduled religious arguments, climate change denial and conspiracy nonsense. Peace.

Yes it's true, things haven't been the same since trained and nameless went on a sabbatical, or was it a sabbat? I forget, probably a sabbat though. I think if you look carefully they're in this pic - they're two of the guys in purple.

So, what the fuck have you brought to the table yet..expect for being a whining little girl.I have my problems with Mr. Stanford, anyone should have them. This seems like an attempt of a 'skeptic' circle jerk though.Go on, I'll watch the trainwreck.

Precise, focussed and not as long winded as many of us. That's what's great about this place still is the diversity of opinion. Kind and gentle skep dicks one and all - it's like a band of merry folk in the forest. Please, pass me the pipe.

 

[Muadib]

So, what the fuck have you brought to the table yet..expect for being a whining little girl.I have my problems with Mr. Stanford, anyone should have them. This seems like an attempt of a 'skeptic' circle jerk though.Go on, I'll watch the trainwreck.

I don't know if this is aimed at me but I wasn't aware I had to "bring something to the table" other than my opinion, this is a discussion forum, is it not? I've never claimed to be a UFO investigator or to have any answers, I evaluate what I hear on a case by case basis and present my opinion, nothing more. Perhaps I'm in the wrong place for that if contributions to the field are required, though I'm pretty sure that would eliminate 98% of the people who post here, including yourself. What the fuck do any of us bring to the table but our opinions and sometimes information gleaned from the internet or published sources, excluding the field investigators that post here from time to time?

 

[dyingsun]

To each his own, I get it though, thanks burnt.

 

[dyingsun]

Oh, it was aimed at you, Muadib.

 

[Muadib]

Oh, it was aimed at you, Muadib.

I thought so, so I reiterate, what do you bring to the table, dyingsun? I'll answer for you, about as much as I do. Yet I don't think I've ever attacked you for stating your opinion. Perhaps remove the stick from your ass and remember that this is a discussion forum.

 

[dyingsun]

I appreciate you answering for me (no, I really don't). Some fight left in you, is there. You are right, a Forum is about differing opinions.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Some folks need to have a break from the strange awareness material it's just like others subjects of study . Have a break and enjoy life .

 

[withoutlimits09]

Instantly a top Paracast show. Ill say quickly thanks Gene for asking Ray to upload a photo. As expected, the answer was 'not at this time'. I share the frustration of all in this matter but I am nowhere near using his refusal as a reason to doubt him. I suppose it comes down to the fact that Chris and James Fox amongst others have seen parts of Ray's work. If absolutely no-one had been allowed to see anything then I too would be calling Ray out. But that is not the case.
I suppose I would want Gene to ask Ray in future if he had any plans for his material to be handled should he die suddenly. Morbid I know, but if Ray's work is even a tenth of what I hope it is, it's something that needs looking at.

During the episode I was mesmerised by talk of gigantic craft and many further details of the Socorro case.

Im totally unapologetic about my love for the Paracast and my blind faith in the presenters' honesty. Until proven otherwise, I'm happy to take Chris at his word that Ray is the real deal. Its obvious Ray has zero in common with Greer - he has a proven track record as an investigator and author and there are snippets from Ray online. Did anyone else watch Ray's presentation at NASA on paleontology? Can't say I absorbed it all but it was very interesting and proof positive that there are serious scientists who take Ray seriously in at least one field. That's one more than all the UFO jokers out there.

Fantastic episode that demonstrates why this is a brilliant paranormal show. Like anything, it has faults and slips but show me another show that gets Ray Stanford on spilling all these great nuggets?

Bravo.

Actually James Fox's co-producer Tracy Torme was recently on Dark Matters Radio with Don Ecker and I specifically asked him if they had seen any of Ray's more outstanding work.

My question was as follows:

"Don, it is my understanding that Ray Stanford was heavily involved in this movie project and James Fox, and I assume Tracy, spent some time with him going over the Zamora case. However, did either of them get the opportunity to see his "holy grail" UFO footage. By Standford's own admission on the Paracast, he claims he shot footage of several UFOs flying over the water. He claims you can clearly see every detail of the craft, including its propulsion system! These crafts then shot beams and plasma out towards him. He states, "I have complete film of this in broad day light" (18:50 minute mark)

Any daylight footage, motion picture, or film that clearly shows a UFO shooting plasma beams at someone in broad daylight would win a Pulitzer Prize for science and history. If Ray possesses something this earth shattering, why has he not released this evidence to MIT or any other respectable University for further analysis?

As film makers, something as fantastical as Stanford's propertied footage would turn the field upside down and prove to be far more valuable to this film than some old burnt pieces of paper at the national archive."

Torme embarrassingly admitted he didn't know what I was talking about. He nor Fox heard or saw anything about footage, film of this type. He then asked me for the link to the paracast, where Stanford made these claims!
-----

If James Fox were serious about making THE movie on UFOs, Ray's film would be much more valuable than some old files and blurry photos of Hynek scanned at the national archive. Finally, I think it is really classless on Ray to help these film makers with their movie, while secretly holding on to what, by his own description, is hallmark UFO footage. If Ray really wanted to be helpful and wanted to really participate in the seminal UFO documentary, he would allow his footage to be analyzed by academia and have those results included in the film. Hell, at least Greer, had a reputable university look at his supposed mummified alien!!!

 

[boomerang]

I respect Ray Stanford as an active seeker of mysteries and enjoy listening to his interviews. His work in paleontology is simply amazing.

Having said that, I will make a psychic prediction. Months will pass. Years will pass and the smoking gun videos will somehow disappear into the woodwork, never to be seen. I say this not out of meanness, but simply based on the decades long history of this phenomenon.

 

[Constance]

So, no, I don't think the fact that James Fox spent 8 days with Ray to mean, well, anything. It means James believes in him, but let's be honest, this wouldn't be the first time that James has been taken for a ride. That's not to say I don't respect the man, I think he's probably the Steven Spielberg of UFO documentary directors and I've enjoyed his films immensely, aside from all of the stuff in them that he either got completely wrong or presented without thinking it through, and Phil Corso is just one example.

I'm curious about the details behind your underscored statement. Have you identified the errors or misrepresentations in Fox's documentaries in a thread here or elsewhere, and if so would you link it? If you haven't identified them elsewhere, would you list the problems you see? Thanks.