Red Pill Junkie — February 2, 2014

[Gene Steinberg]

Without going into detail, the thread for this show is history, and the recovery process would involve lots of manual labor and lots of chance for error.

So hoping to recreate some miracles, I'm starting a new thread for discussion of RPJ's appearance on The Paracast on February 2.

I'm sure we can regain some lost ground here, so how about starting over?

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

RPJ,
Show was excellent Gene and Chris with the banter between great researchers who like many online have no clue what the hell this thing or groups behind the veil of interaction and manipulations through fear or fun.

 

[Burnt State]

Wow, that's sad days as it was a great dynamic conversation where we were given the great pleasure of RPJ's imaginative discourse and wonderfully generous responses. His writing was a real gift to the forum as he took a lot of time to craft such unique responses to each of us. Both him and Ryan really impressed me with how they took on the onslaught of questions with a lot of grace and positive demeanour.

RPJ provided many of us with lots of great laughter and some really inventive and unique perspectives on every topic flung at him. He was so fast on the draw and able to connect different bits of paranormal ephemera to weave his own red pill constellation of ideas. It glowed bright. But that's the thing with the digital landscape - it is widely distributed, frequently in flux and dissolves into the ephemera it ultimately is.

Still, i'm sure he has moved his quick banter on to other projects, and there is still his question thread that maintains evidence of his actual presence here on the forum. He bilocated in fine form by maintaining responses to two separate threads. Perhaps he can come back to the Paracast one day to re-establish his history, but in the mean time we now have a rich conspiracy to mull over?! Just what was it he posted that the powers that be saw fit to erase the entire thread out of existence? I bet it was his revelation of being part of the Sacred order of the Lucha Libre! Please note the red pill body flying through the air…
RPJ you must fly back to us to share with us your battles with the secret powers that would see your thread banished to the bowels of the internet.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Talk about erasing personal history

 

[red_pill_junkie]

OK, so what's done is done. These things happen & we shouldn't fuss over it too much.

Let's see if we can recover some of the lost info. Now, Wade commended me on 1 of his first comments --much obliged to you, sir-- and mentioned the movie Dark City. This is what I responded back:

Thanks, Wade. I'm very glad you enjoyed the conversation. As for me, it was awesome to have had the chance to chat with both Gene & Chris about everything & nothing

And let me just say I'm also a BIG fan of Dark City, which along The Matrix was part of an intriguing batch of what I'd call 'gnostic films.' The 13th Floor is part of that group, and I liked it a lot as well --although it lacked the 'potency' of The Matrix IMO.

He also made a further question with regards to Dopamine and such (forgive my fuzziness). I replied thusly:

This inquiry about Dopamine prompted me to do a bit of searching on a few psychology sites. It seems Dopamine's role in the reward-seeking machinery of our brain is pretty much established, and how suffering a deficiency of it could lead to depression & substance abuse --something odd to contemplate a day after we learned of the tragic passing of Philip Seymour Hoffman-- but how Dopamine relates to 'psychosis' & 'schizophrenia' is still a matter of debate. Some people suggest an hyperactivity in certain brain receptors could trigger psychotic episodes, and that's why anti-psychotic medication have "dopamine receptors antagonistic effects."

But the problem here is that these type of 'aberrant' behavior is still being contemplated from a purely chemical --i.e. Materialistic-- perspective. You're hearing voices in your head = there's something wrong with your brain!

I personally don't agree with our society's current take with what we call schizophrenia, because it's a direct result of our collective aversion to what other 'more primitive' cultures would call 'the spiritual realm.' If you live in an Amazonian tribe of hunter-gatherers and you start hearing voices in your head, you're conduced to the tribe elders where you'll be interrogated, they may give you some psychoactive plnts & conduct a ritual ceremony destined to determine what this 'message from the other side' means & how it could affect the life of the tribe. You'd be seen as a valuable member of the group & be respected for being 'chosen by the gods'

If such an episode happens when you're living in the Western world, you're conduced to a psychiatrist who'll start making you all sorts of questions, you'll be pumped with pills & even with electro-shock therapy in more severe cases. You'd be seen as a dysfunctional member of society & be cast aside.

Perhaps is this continual repression of this larger aspect of the human experience, and the fact there aren't adequate outlets to let them be expressed --other than art-- why inevitably the pressure keeps building up, until eventually there's an uncontrollable explosion and this 'other side' manifests abruptly into our everyday life.

Perhaps that's what happens with what we ignorantly call 'the paranormal.'

After which smcder provided a lot of excellent input:

I personally don't agree with our society's current take with what we call schizophrenia, because it's a direct result of our collective aversion to what other 'more primitive' cultures would call 'the spiritual realm.' If you live in an Amazonian tribe of hunter-gatherers and you start hearing voices in your head, ou're conduced to the tribe elders where you'll be interrogated, they may give you some psychoactive plnts & conduct a ritual ceremony destined to determine what this 'message from the other side' means & how it could affect the life of the tribe. You'd be seen as a valuable member of the group & be respected for being 'chosen by the gods'
Hearing voices - and my understanding is that these are profoundly auditory experiences - they don't occur inside the head, but in the same space as everything else you hear - is not limited to persons who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia, they can occur with other mental illnesses but also in the absence of a mental illness.

Hearing Voices Network USA - Links

If such an episode happens when you're living in the Western world, you're conduced to a psychiatrist who'll start making you all sorts of questions, you'll be pumped with pills & even with electro-shock therapy in more severe cases. You'd be seen as a dysfunctional member of society & be cast aside.

This often does happen - and the mental health system and attitudes toward and conceptions of mental illness in the US and many other Western countries is deeply dysfunctional . . . however, it is not always the case. Persons who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia and other severe mental illnesses continue to function and even hold professional positions. Kay Redfield Jamison is one of the more prominent examples - she is a psychiatrist who lives with bipolar disorder and who wrote the definitive book on manic-depressive disorders.

See also:

My life with schizophrenia - CNN.com

Elyn Saks is a professor of law, psychology and psychiatry at USC Gould School of Law, a MacArthur Foundation fellowship winner and the author of "The Center Cannot Hold: My Journey Through Madness" (Hyperion, 2007). She spoke at the TEDGlobal conference in Edinburgh, UK, in June. TED is a nonprofit dedicated to "Ideas worth spreading," which it makes available through talks posted on its website.

(CNN) -- I am a woman with chronic schizophrenia. I have spent hundreds of days in psychiatric hospitals. I could have ended up living most of my life on a back ward, but things turned out quite differently.

Another good resource is:

Latest Shows | Madness Radio

This podcast also moves into some areas that could overlap with paranormal interests.

Schizophrenia appears to be a modern condition - it's been noted that the Greeks had no diagnostic category that resembled it, despite being medically and psychologically sophisticated. It seems to appear around the time of industrial society. Schizophrenia frequently features hallucinations and delusions/paranoia around telecommunications systems and other electronic devices. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - Chief Bromden thinks that the world is a machine he calls the Combine, everyone is part of the machine. The role of the hospital is to fix broken parts and wire them back into the machine.

The relationship between the gods and voices heard by the ancient Greek heroes is also intriguing.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

smcder continued:

Perhaps is this continual repression of this larger aspect of the human experience, and the fact there aren't adequate outlets to let them be expressed --other than art-- why inevitably the pressure keeps building up, until eventually there's an uncontrollable explosion and this 'other side' manifests abruptly into our everyday life.
In my own personal experience and experience with others who have had a diagnosis of mental illness, this hydraulic theory is accurate.

Madness radio episodes that may be of specific interest:

Madness Radio: Beyond Biological Reductionism Raymond Tallis | Madness Radio

Madness Radio: Meaning From Voices Eleanor Longden | Madness Radio

Madness Radio: Visionary Psychiatrist Daniel Fisher | Madness Radio

Madness Radio: Physics Dreaming and Extreme States Arnold Mindell | Madness Radio

What is reality? Why do people in extreme states feel connected to the universe, and experience uncanny and even supernatural events? Does quantum physics have something to teach us about madness? What if therapists were like indigenous tribal shamans, entering into clients' "psychotic" worlds as if stepping into a dream? Arnold Mindell studied with pioneering scientists Richard Feynman and Norbert Wiener and then became a Jungian therapist and founder of Process Oriented Psychology. He discusses his more than 40 years of work with individuals and groups, including people diagnosed with psychosis, and the ancient belief in a purposeful dreaming reality behind everyday events.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

I further engaged in a discussion with Ufology in which the matter of personhood was raised --in regards with the problem of whether human consciousness survives death or not. Boomerang jumped in & added this:

The most fundamental question in philosophy, maybe? Certainly not molecules comprising the physical body, as they are exchanged over time, and not even in the exact same configuration as we age. Any of us past a certain age will agree we are not the same person we used to be. And yet, we are. The sum total of our memories? Perhaps, but these could hypothetically recorded and stored during a person's lifetime and still qualify as nothing more that so much static data. Can we say with confidence that each individual comprises a kind of unique trajectory through space and time, not possibly duplicated or replicated without some kind of bifurcation or branching that yields two minds rather than one ?

Thanks for a most interesting interview and follow up discussions !

 

[red_pill_junkie]

pduchesne had this to say about the Paracast episode:

This show reminded me of the scene from Animal House where professor Jennings has the kids over for a pot party:

Larry: Okay. That means that our whole solar system could be, like one tiny atom in the fingernail of some other giant being. This is too much! That means one tiny atom in my fingernail could be...

Prof. Jennings: Could be one little tiny universe.

Larry: Could I buy some pot from you?

All in all an entertaining show, which is the point after all. So nice work gentlemen.

I had never been compared to Tom Hulce before, so I take it as a great compliment

 

[red_pill_junkie]

nameless asked this further in the thread:

Hey Rpj, nice interview and thanks for answering my questions. When you first saw the matrix were you aware that it was a gnostic mystery play or did it come after along with other studies? Do you think that essentially Gnosticism particularly if you have been brought up via the Judaeo- Christian western culture is inevitable if one is to make any kind of progression. Once this has been breached do you see yourself( or maybe you are already doing this)applying or testing your will via a system, map or school or maybe do you see blogging as this?

Aaaand I don't think I have the answer I gave to this on my Inbox >_< If anyone else has it feel free to paste it

Further along nameless asked this:

Cheers again . Have you read the Don Juan Papers ? That book really helped me reconcile a few things about Castañeda which coincidently were puzzle pieces in understanding some trickster/fool archetypes. Peaceee

Again, same problem :'(

 

[red_pill_junkie]

smcder added this to the discussion:

Since you like OT & film connections - I recommend Hirokazu Koreeda's After Life (1998) if you haven't seen it . . .

After Life Movie Review & Film Summary (1999) | Roger Ebert

Which encouraged me to pay him with the same coin:

Did Roger Ebert Have a Deathbed Vision?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Charlie Prime raised this issue with regards to Carlos Castañeda:

Do be aware that Carlos Castaneda and Terrence McKenna were both CIA assets.

Their job was promote an "Archaic Revival" for the purpose of stupefying and disorienting lower class young people, basically eliminating them as a threat to the heirarchy. It was adapted from a successful weaponized anthropology program the Soviets used to subdue native tribes in their hinterlands.

The program was first started to defuse resistance to the war in Vietnam. It continues in more sophisticated forms today.

Something which I found highly unlikely, BTW. smcder wanted to know more, though:

I've heard about this . . . what sources do you recommend? How does the program continue today?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Charlie Prime responded to smcder:

Today the program continues mainly via mass media programming.

Castaneda was on my mind because listened to this recent podcast Friday evening...

An Interview with Prof. Jay Courtney Fikes, pt. 3 - "MK-ULTRA Continued... The Carlos Castaneda Deception" - #189 - Gnostic Media

MP3 Direct Download Link Here (Duration: 1:35:48 — 66.1MB)

The interviewer Jan Irvin has a somewhat abrasive online personality, but his research is top-notch, documented, and testable. I took Jan out to lunch in Los Angeles a couple of years ago. In person he is a super nice guy; honest, moral, and sincere.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

My main response to Charlie Prime is that, if the CIA somewhat masterminded the psychedelic counterculture, then it was a program that epically backfired.

red_pill_junkie
... if the psychedelic counterculture was originally masterminded by the CIA, then it's an op that epically back fired
I don't understand how you could believe that.

Chemically assisted psychonautica is both highly illegal and considered a pathetic joke by 99% of the citizenry.

The "Counter Culture" ideas of freedom from the command hierarchy and separating oneself from the System are ridiculed in popular society as the anomalous domain of religious fundie nutters, hillbilly militia cranks, and smelly drug addicts.

Today hippies advocate increasing authoritarian collectivism, destruction of diversity via political correctness, and child-like dependance on the State.

The mountain of evidence all around you indicates the Archaic Revival operation was a brilliant success for the Banksters the CIA executed it for.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Burnt State jumped in:

Charlie Prime
The "Counter Culture" ideas of freedom from the command hierarchy and separating oneself from the System are ridiculed in popular society as the anomalous domain of religious fundie nutters, hillbilly militia cranks, and smelly drug addicts.

Today hippies advocate increasing authoritarian collectivism, destruction of diversity via political correctness, and child-like dependance on the State.

hmmm…i thought the 99% vs. the 1% consciousness raising exercise and the Idle No More aboriginal movement both demonstrated, like Azaaz.org that individuals can collect, go against the system, raise more than noise and even affect policy in the case of Avaaz, so I'm not too sure about what you're saying. While i acknowledge that mass media constantly demands conformity and even sells individuality via different coloured products, but the independence movement via digital communications and people learning to think for themselves is happening now online. We see that at work every day.

Another new reality of course is education and work dynamics as increasingly education systems are unable to shift and alter themselves to meet current employment demands - this will inevitably revolutionize a lot of notions around independence. With only about 10-15% of university grads actually using their degree in their jobs we are definitely in the age of the entrepreneur.

I'm very confused by the political correctness killing diversity point. I want everybody to be, and speak, politically correctly, so as not to offend me or those around them. I would prefer especially for the racists and the sexists to keep their thoughts and deeds to themselves and speak only in a correct, professional and polite manner when conducting their business in public. Maybe we could perpetuate less inequity and create more positive diversity by getting people to keep their discriminations and hatreds to themselves? In this regard families and other socializing agents continue to perpetuate incorrect and inequitable approaches to thinking and talking about diversity so if we can mandate their discourse then I'm all for it!

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Along the way Muadib joined the discussion (don't have your whole response, amigo. Sorry) & Burnt State continued to contribute:

Muadib
One of the problems is that the human mind is great at creating rationalizations for its own shitty behavior, that's why you get bible thumping business criminals who ignore the fact that scripture says "one cannot worship both money and god" and instead subscribe to "keep my religion and business separate please." These are the people who claim to be guided by the hand of god, but in my opinion, if there was a hand of god, it would be firmly wrapped around their throats until they turned purple and expired, and we'd all be better off without their posturing and hypocrisy.

There is no utopia on its way from religious or mystical sources, if we want a better world we need to make one, if we can. I'm not so sure it's possible, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try, we just shouldn't imagine that it's going to happen overnight via some outside source, imo.

And that's the fact, Jack! Humanity is constantly hoping for some type of emotional rescue from self-created and powerfully imposed plights of greed and ego. Technology will not save us. Drugs will not save us. God/Aliens/Bigfoot will not save us. We're stuck with what we made so far. It's either self-destruction or improvement through sharing. The way we live on this planet, especially the way we treat each other - that's where the madness lies.

smcder
Schizophrenia appears to be a modern condition - it's been noted that the Greeks had no diagnostic category that resembled it, despite being medically and psychologically sophisticated. It seems to appear around the time of industrial society. Schizophrenia frequently features hallucinations and delusions/paranoia around telecommunications systems and other electronic devices. In One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - Chief Bromden thinks that the world is a machine he calls the Combine, everyone is part of the machine. The role of the hospital is to fix broken parts and wire them back into the machine.

The relationship between the gods and voices heard by the ancient Greek heroes is also intriguing.

I'm thinking of that one scene from the Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television book where he quotes scenes from nightmares from those in the asylum. IN one passage he reports a human like monster chasing a patient down the street but it's got a television set for a head. Now, in the age of the internet, where everything is associative, well this just feeds directly into an artistic, metaphoric and schizophrenic mind.

If in the past, those who heard voices were revered and ostracized for their unique talent i wonder what we will do with all the kids who are currently complaining about their high frequency of auditory hallucinations?

To quote Shakespeare re: life on earth circa 2014, "It hath made me mad."

 

[red_pill_junkie]

*Sigh* So I responded to Curt's question in which he asked me to give different examples of UFO cases which could be categorized as 'Extraterrestrial,' 'Paranormal', 'Man-made' & 'hoaxes.' I was rather satisfied with my response... which I don't have in my inbox

Burnt State added this:

red_pill_junkie
UFO sightings in which the witness experienced poltergeist activity & precognitive dreams? Um... let's get back to those burn marks on the ground, shall we?

RPJ, i just want to say that it's great to see your star rising in the paranormal pantheon lately, as you do actually have a unique way of thinking about the field. Even more astonishing is your on the spot ability to be an associative practitioner. You see deftly weave together disparate ideas, historical events, concepts and theories without even pausing to take a breath. This makes for very entertaining, informative, and critical reading and listening regarding your product. How do you keep all that stuff in your head - have you already had the chip installed inside your head?>?

But to be a bit of a contrarian, i have to say i greatly preferred your recent appearances on Radio Misterioso compared to this Paracast episode. I'm not a fan of dead air, or trolling through the question bank to come up with a new thread of conversation, though of course your answers were often 'stimulating' as Spock would say. I can imagine that Chris was probably pretty bagged with completing the book and probably didn't have much left in the tank, but this episode seemed to be grasping at straws at times. I wish there was a more prepared approach to your own theories and ideologies that could have guided the listeners through a bit more of a coherent set of ideas. Time for you to produce a book brother and create an even more interesting lens for us to view this field.

I'd really like to hear your own opinion on what the connection is between the UFO sighting and the poltergeist like activity, etc. that sometimes follows. Is something trying to tell us something?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

So Charlie Prime continued to expand on the possibility that Castañeda & Mckenna & all the other big actors of the psychedelic revolution were actually agents working for the government to keep the hippie movement sedated & contained --please correct me if I'm not summarizing your viewpoint correctly-- To which I (partially) replied:

Look, couldn't we consider the possibility that plans originally conceived by these agencies either backfire or evolve in ways their original developers couldn't have possibly conceived? Arpanet was the result of nuclear fear, and now it's united the world in ways we can barely comprehend. Maybe some of the original actors in the psychedelic revolution had ties with government agencies; that doesn't mean the Hippie movement was the brainchild of the secret government.

Wade Ridsdale added this:

Very good point, and one can Carry this same point across a number of issues. Best laid plans of mice and men. Maybe the state of things about us are less about world Domination than people who are in a position to take advantage of unsettled conditions and being scared for the future and they are just protecting their intetests And in doing so it just dictates others to do the same. it's one big Domino effect... or Butterfly effect. Every action taken could be a knee jerk reaction to actions taken before them.Humanity is one big wildcard because we fear the unknown. And let me go one step furthur If one wants to consider that a trickster element makes the world is it wrong to consider that maybe a NWO HAS to be in place in order to fall epicly and prmomote change?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

trainedobserver mentioned a BBC documentary on Castañeda --don't have the URL with me, sorry.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

wwkirk asked me this:

RPJ, what is your take on the fact that Castenada manufactured the persona of Don Juan, and that his work was therefore not genuine anthropology.

To which I replied: If it was all a figment of his imagination, then more power to him. I tried to make clear on the thread that I don't obsess on whether Don Juan was a real person or not, anymore than I obsess on whether Jesus rose from his grave on the 3rd day or not. There's plenty of valuable lessons to take into account on the New Testament even if Jesus never existed, just as there are plenty of good material on Castañeda's corpus, even if most of all of it was a work of fiction.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Jeff Davis commented on something Burnt State wrote:

Burnt State
hmmm…i thought the 99% vs. the 1% consciousness raising exercise and the Idle No More aboriginal movement both demonstrated, like Azaaz.org that individuals can collect, go against the system, raise more than noise and even affect policy in the case of Avaaz, so I'm not too sure about what you're saying. While i acknowledge that mass media constantly demands conformity and even sells individuality via different coloured products, but the independence movement via digital communications and people learning to think for themselves is happening now online. We see that at work every day.

Another new reality of course is education and work dynamics as increasingly education systems are unable to shift and alter themselves to meet current employment demands - this will inevitably revolutionize a lot of notions around independence. With only about 10-15% of university grads actually using their degree in their jobs we are definitely in the age of the entrepreneur.

I'm very confused by the political correctness killing diversity point. I want everybody to be, and speak, politically correctly, so as not to offend me or those around them. I would prefer especially for the racists and the sexists to keep their thoughts and deeds to themselves and speak only in a correct, professional and polite manner when conducting their business in public. Maybe we could perpetuate less inequity and create more positive diversity by getting people to keep their discriminations and hatreds to themselves? In this regard families and other socializing agents continue to perpetuate incorrect and inequitable approaches to thinking and talking about diversity so if we can mandate their discourse then I'm all for it!

It's funny how you found the diversity comment a little confusing, but finished up by stating that you wish everyone was just like you, and if you're not, please keep those nasty opinions to yourself. Personally, I just wish people would get their shit together and learn how take personal responsibility to a level greater than walking to their mailboxes. It's too bad that the latter is precisely what the government is presently encouraging. Just sayn'.

I am all for diversity as long as I don't have to pay the differential fee.