Red Pill Junkie — February 2, 2014

[Burnt State]

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Aaand that's as far as I can go restoring the original content of the lost threads, amigos. Hope other members can fill in the blanks --Adiós!

I am so sorry I messed up when I was attempting to set up the Stalking the Herd forum. Thanks RPJ for restoring the content! Can't wait to have you back on the show!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Next step: Recovering Ryan's thread on his recent Paracast appearance. Let's work on that next. That should cover the most critical threads. RPJ you did great!

 

[red_pill_junkie]

I am so sorry I messed up when I was attempting to set up the Stalking the Herd forum. Thanks RPJ for restoring the content! Can't wait to have you back on the show!

Don't mention it, man. We know you guys don't have a huge staff of interns helping out with the maintenance of the forum.

And even with extra-help the Trickster can strike at any time

 

[Gene Steinberg]

These forums also don't include enough warnings of delete this and your thread/forum/post is toast. And the methods to restore mistakenly deleted stuff are nearly nonexistent. I should complain about this to the developers.

We actually have a backup of the lost data, but getting it all back involves manual copying and pasting stuff from multiple database tables, and a single mistake can only make things worse. It's easier to just copy and paste the message notices some of you have received about new posts.

 

[Smike]

Finally caught up with this show. Loved most of it, but could have really done without the pro-drug stuff at the end.

Look, I don't think anyone argues that marijuana is as dangerous as other drugs, but the fact remains it is still dangerous - if someone denies that, then they are flat-out lying.

But the "because x is legal, then so should y" argument is fallacious. When the matter is, if y is illegal, then ideally so should x.

But it's not - and no amount of teenage-level reasoning is going to change that.

I completely appreciate that - in the paranormal community - I am in the minority with my views on drugs, but a little balance would be appreciated. NO drugs - are 100% beneficial with no side-effects, and there are real, tangible dangers that come along with marijuana use (even though the pro-pot fans hate to admit it), so how about a little acknowledgement of that.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Finally caught up with this show. Loved most of it, but could have really done without the pro-drug stuff at the end.

Look, I don't think anyone argues that marijuana is as dangerous as other drugs, but the fact remains it is still dangerous - if someone denies that, then they are flat-out lying.

But the "because x is legal, then so should y" argument is fallacious. When the matter is, if y is illegal, then ideally so should x.

But it's not - and no amount of teenage-level reasoning is going to change that.

I completely appreciate that - in the paranormal community - I am in the minority with my views on drugs, but a little balance would be appreciated. NO drugs - are 100% beneficial with no side-effects, and there are real, tangible dangers that come along with marijuana use (even though the pro-pot fans hate to admit it), so how about a little acknowledgement of that.

It's not about glorifying drugs --and for the record, I'm not in favor of the recreational use of psychedelics-- but about acknowledging the sovereignty of every adult over their own consciousness, and their right to explore their own mind.

So what are the tangible dangers in marijuana use? But before you answer that, why don't you watch this documentary made by Dr. Sanjay Gupta, a man who used to be on the side of demonizing marijuana, but eventually did a complete 180° change in his views, and is now advocating for its legalization:

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

could have really done without the pro-drug stuff at the end. Look, I don't think anyone argues that marijuana is as dangerous as other drugs, but the fact remains it is still dangerous - if someone denies that, then they are flat-out lying. But the "because x is legal, then so should y" argument is fallacious. When the matter is, if y is illegal, then ideally so should x. But it's not - and no amount of teenage-level reasoning is going to change that.

You know what's really dangerous? Big Pharmaceuticals and doctors. LEGAL drugs i.e., alcohol and prescription drugs kill almost 65, 000 Americans every year. Cannabis? Let's go to the numbers:
Cause of death in 2010:
Alcohol 25,600
Pharmaceutical drugs 22,300
Pharmaceutical Opioids 16,600
TOTAL: 64,500

Cannabis 0 [that's right ZERO]

My point is that according to this "teenage reasoning" you are more likely to die from alcohol (grossly overprescribed) medicines and painkillers than cannabis. And let's not forget doctors—the third leading cause of death in the USA (225,000 per year)

12,000 -- unnecessary surgery
7,000 -- medication errors in hospitals
20,000 -- other errors in hospitals
80,000 -- infections in hospitals
106,000 -- non-error, negative effects of drugs

FYI: Psychedelics have been found to be the most effective way to treat alcoholics w/ the least amount of recidivism and we are seeing a resurgence of psychiatric interest in resuming studies w/ hallucinogens that were curtailed by draconian prejudice in the mid-1960s. Studies on prison inmates also produced amazing results and percentages of non repeat offenders skyrocketed after psychedelic therapy. You sound either 30-40 years old (The Reagan-era "Just Say No." ) Or you may be an old fogey like me that never got out much Either way, you are wrong, IMO and I'll continue to voice my opinion on these matters on the Paracast!

 

[Smike]

So what are the tangible dangers in marijuana use? But before you answer that, why don't you watch this documentary made by Dr. Sanjay Gupta, a man who used to be on the side of demonizing marijuana, but eventually did a complete 180° change in his views, and is now advocating for its legalization:

Hey RPJ - here's some info just from a cursory search:

Stress system changes associated with ma... [Hum Psychopharmacol. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

The dangers of cannabis - Live Well - NHS Choices

Psychiatric effects of cannabis

I'm not interested in 'demonizing' anything - I am interested in balance though. Thanks for your polite and reasoned response.

 

[Smike]

You know what's really dangerous? Big Pharmaceuticals and doctors. LEGAL drugs i.e., alcohol and prescription drugs kill almost 65, 000 Americans every year.

Hi Chris. I'm not arguing that pharmaceutical drugs do not also carry dangers. They do.

As I mentioned in my reply to RPJ (above) marijuana might not kill people outright, but it certainly has links to serious mental and physical illness (schizophrenia, cancer) that can ultimately lead to death.

Again, I AM NOT saying that one joint is going to kill someone, but to deny that it is not all sunshine and daisies smacks of ignoring an inconvenient truth.

Or you may be an old fogey like me that never got out much Either way, you are wrong, IMO and I'll continue to voice my opinion on these matters on the Paracast!

If only that was the case. I've lived a full life where I've seen too many friends and family go down the wrong path. And yes, sometimes those paths have begun with weed. Sometimes those paths have ended with weed, too. Have you never encountered someone who got into weed too much and just lost their way? That alone is one of the negative aspects I'm speaking of.

Again (and it's a shame I have to repeat this, but I feel my words will be deliberately misinterpreted if I'm not crystal clear) I AM NOT saying that other legal drugs are not capable of doing the same.

To call me "wrong" for having opinions that are borne of real-life experiences and can be supported via research, is unfair, and not appreciated.
Let me make it clear, I'm not accusing anyone of being dishonest or deliberately lying to the listeners, nor do I expect to 'win' this debate, but I'd be doing my conscience a disservice if I didn't challenge what I heard.

Like I said, all I ask for is some balance. If The Paracast is about truth, then even truths that don't fit into one's dogma should be acknowledged.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

When it comes to medications, do you ever listen to the list of "contraindications" mentioned very quickly at the end of one of those TV or radio ads? I've heard far too many "may cause death" statements not to worry how such drugs ever make it to market. Clearly the Big Pharma lobby is alive and well, and hoping to make out like bandits because Obamacare will allow people to get free wellness exams and thus be more inclined to take preventive medications they might not otherwise have considered in an emergency room visit.

 

[Smike]

When it comes to medications, do you ever listen to the list of "contraindications" mentioned very quickly at the end of one of those TV or radio ads? I've heard far too many "may cause death" statements not to worry how such drugs ever make it to market. Clearly the Big Pharma lobby is alive and well, and hoping to make out like bandits because Obamacare will allow people to get free wellness exams and thus be more inclined to take preventive medications they might not otherwise have considered in an emergency room visit.

In the UK, prescription drugs don't get advertised on TV, but I've seen those commercials during my trips to the US, and they're terrifying. Both the disclaimers and the fact they exist at all!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Sometimes the disclaimers last more than the portion of the ad that promotes the product itself. So you hear the "may cause death" warning, followed by a middle-aged couple smiling as they watch over a placid lake. Or maybe they were so frightened by the warnings that they just wanted to jump in and get it over with.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Hey RPJ - here's some info just from a cursory search:

Stress system changes associated with ma... [Hum Psychopharmacol. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

The dangers of cannabis - Live Well - NHS Choices

Psychiatric effects of cannabis

I'm not interested in 'demonizing' anything - I am interested in balance though. Thanks for your polite and reasoned response.

There have been recent studies showing cannabis addiction risk is actually lower than that of alcohol, tobacco & several other legal drugs.

Marijuana Dependence and Its Treatment

That doesn't mean you can't get hooked on 'the green bitch', to use Graham Hancock's phrase which highlighted his previous dependency on cannabis --ironically, it was through Ayahuasca that he managed to overcome his addiction, which reminds me of the use of Ibogaine as an alternative therapy for the treatment of heroin addicts.

My current views on these subjects is that there are people who are more prone to develop addictive habits, irregardless of the legal standards of said addiction. If you get hooked on pot is quite likely that you were bound to get hooked on something else, even if you never had a poof with the magic dragon

This recent podcast episode of Tangentially Speaking, where Dr. Christopher Ryan interviews Dr. Stanton Peele, a world-wide authority in the field of addiction, might be relevant to the discussion:

50 - Stanton Peele — Christopher Ryan, PhD