Red_Pill_Junkie and the Roswell Slides

[DaveM]

Is Richard on trial then?

It's called guilt by association. You are judged by the company you keep. Now that those people who analyzed that placard and have found out what was written on it, maybe we can move on from this debacle.

 

[SRL+]

Miguel: the Daily Mail alleges “UFO scientists charged $350 for people to attend the announcement”. Is this correct?

New Roswell photos prove 'beyond any doubt' that ET exists claim UFO specialists | Daily Mail Online

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

Is Richard on trial then?

Why? Are you willing to represent him?

 

[Constance]

I would be if he needed defense or representation. He doesn't. He has represented himself and his positions unambiguously in his responses to recent attacks on him, first for remaining open-minded about the identification of the body photographed in the slides after hearing the oral presentations of forensic specialists on May 5, and second in his statement yesterday, following Anthony Bragalia's uncovering the actual history of the Pueblo Indian child mummy by early Sunday morning. I wonder how many of those vilifying Dolan have actually read what he wrote in those two statements, much less the 1,200 pages so far published of his trilogy on the history of UFOs and the National Security State. Persons who have *not* read the first two volumes of that work are in no position to evaluate Dolan's contributions to modern ufo history and its demonstrated entanglement with multiple agencies of the US security state evolving in our time.

To impugn Dolan for withholding judgement on the Roswell slides in the early days of last week and on that basis to question his competence as a researcher is a demonstration of ignorance of his major contributions. To call for a rejection of all historical ufo research to date is staggeringly short-sighted. I have no idea what motivates the chorus of denunciations of what has been learned in ufo research over the last six decades. I think it is an important item of business for those of us genuinely interested in ufo investigation to find out what those motivations are. They appear to me at this point to be shallow and self-serving motivations. On the other hand it might be the case that these people are simply unable to articulate a rational and detailed basis for their extreme claims and demands.

 

[DaveM]

Well Constance, I read the first two volumes of Dolan's National Security books. However, that isn't the issue here. When Dolan took the stage in Mexico City, whether he liked it or not, he was representing the point of view of those in possession of the slides. He accepted a fee for his partipation. Now that those slides were found to be something other than Roswell aliens, Dolan was tarred with the rest of the presenters. If he doesn't like the criticism he should have stayed home like Friedman.

Some of us would love to see some factual truth presented. Instead we received a play for money. Quite frankly you are in the minority on this subject and feel free to defend those who pulled a sham on those people truly looking for the facts from some honest people.

PS... I am the generous benefactor who paid for your 'free' subscription to the Paracast+ and I regret every day of it.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Your donation was given to two other members Dave.

 

[DaveM]

Your donation was given to two other members Dave.

No Gene, initially you gave half of the money I donated to Constance's membership. You later included another membership to make it three total.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

No we covered her upgrade differently. Let's drop it.

Thanks for your support.

 

[Constance]

I've reinserted the missing first comment of Dave M's post to me (which seems to have disappeared from the thread now). Oddly, Dave's first statement still shows up in my edit screen but not in my post in response to his (probably because he deleted his post?). I've c&p'd his first comment without the embedded reference to what was post 222908 in the following, just so our exchange makes sense.

Well Constance, I read the first two volumes of Dolan's National Security books. However, that isn't the issue here. When Dolan took the stage in Mexico City, whether he liked it or not, he was representing the point of view of those in possession of the slides.

DaveM wrote:

Well Constance, I read the first two volumes of Dolan's National Security books. However, that isn't the issue here. When Dolan took the stage in Mexico City, whether he liked it or not, he was representing the point of view of those in possession of the slides.

Only in the minds of people who now want to force him into that position. In fact he made it clear that he went to Mexico City to learn more about the slides. After the presentation he continued to withhold judgment, urging people to wait for the written analyses of the forensic specialists presented briefly and orally on the 5th before rushing to judgment. Those analyses are now moot, except perhaps for forensic anthropologists who might want to compare photographic images of known child-sized human mummies and other similar images that appear to be anomalous (e.g., head and skull shapes that do not coincide with known cases of hydroencephaly). That's an inquiry of a different kind and might one day be illuminating..

He accepted a fee for his partipation.

No, he accepted coverage of his travel and lodging expenses.

Now that those slides were found to be something other than Roswell aliens, Dolan was tarred with the rest of the presenters.

Only in the minds of those who for some reason want/need to discredit him and his prior research.

If he doesn't like the criticism he should have stayed home like Friedman.

The 'criticism' of Dolan after the presentation, and the flogging of Carey, Schmitt, and Bragalia for months before the presentation, might by now have intimidated ufo researchers in general from continuing to pursue Roswell research, but I doubt it, and I certainly hope this intimidation is not enough to close the Roswell subject.

Some of us would love to see some factual truth presented. Instead we received a play for money.

The only person who can reasonably be supposed to have been in this for the money rather than in good-faith pursuit of the Roswell reality is Adam Dew, who apparently withheld the digitally enlarged slides from the public for nearly a week without explanation. As the half-owner of the slides and the only individual involved in, and competent in, computer analyses of the slides, he was in the driver's seat of that part of the investigation. Carey, Schmitt, and Bragalia made a mistake in accepting in good faith his claims that the slides had been analyzed by three independent sources competent to clarify the writing on the placard and that all attempts failed. No one else is likely to make that kind of mistake again.

Quite frankly you are in the minority on this subject and feel free to defend those who pulled a sham on those people truly looking for the facts from some honest people.

I realize that I am in the minority. That's ok. The fact is that it is *not proved* that all involved in the slides research "pulled a sham". My impression of Carey, Schmitt, and Bragalia, based on their dedicated research efforts of the past, is that these individuals would not knowingly participate in 'a sham' concerning Roswell or any other subject of ufo investigation.

PS... I am the generous benefactor who paid for your 'free' subscription to the Paracast+ and I regret every day of it.

I had no idea. Gene offered me a free two-year subscription to Paracast Plus and After the Paracast when I said I couldn't currently take on any additional expenses since I have considerable unpaid medical bills now accruing additional interest charges. I can't imagine why he asked you to foot the bill or why you would do that. The fact is that I've made little use of these free services and I'm hereby asking Gene to refund your money. I'll happily listen to the Paracast with commercials included in the future. But thank you anyway, Dave, for this beneficence.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I had no idea. Gene offered me a free two-year subscription to Paracast Plus and After the Paracast when I said I couldn't currently take on any additional expenses since I have considerable unpaid medical bills now accruing additional interest charges. I can't imagine why he asked you to foot the bill or why you would do that. The fact is that I've made little use of these free services and I'm hereby asking Gene to refund your money. I'll happily listen to the Paracast with commercials included in the future. But thank you anyway, Dave, for this beneficence.

Absolutely not, as I said. Dave's donation went to two other members, as previously announced. They are already enjoying their subscriptions.

Your subscription is a gift from me and Chris, so there's nothing to refund.

Let's move on to other stuff, OK?

 

[DaveM]

Sorry to say Constance, you can believe what was presented at Mexico City. It took a few hours of using some enhancement software to show what the placard really said. Schmitt, Carey and party had years to have this analyzed and they could have shown high resolution pictures but they chose not to. Now they accuse those who found out what was written on the placard of photoshopping it in. Really? How lame came you get.

As far as forensic experts go... the two sides in a courtroom each have their experts. A totally independent review would be needed, not some 'experts' who know what results are expected of them. And lastly, I don't believe for a minute that Dolan only received lodging and travel expenses. Ufology is his business and Dolan doesn't do freebies. This is the end of any comments I have on this sordid affair.

Gene didn't ask me to give money for a couple of Paracast+ memberships. I was trying to get people interested in the added benefits of Plus.

 

[Constance]

I missed the dialogue about that while I was drafting my response to Dave's post. It's fine with me to move on from talking about that free subscription, and many thanks to you and Chris for providing it.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And I very much appreciate what you gave, Dave. It came out of the blue.

Thanks for your comments. I do think Dolan has to give some more answers about this. Stan Friedman opted not to go. Nick Redfern is coming on to The Paracast in the near future, but he will not talk anymore about those "bloody Roswell Slides." Who can blame him?

 

[DaveM]

And I very much appreciate what you gave, Dave. It came out of the blue.

Thanks for your comments. I do think Dolan has to give some more answers about this. Stan Friedman opted not to go. Nick Redfern is coming on to The Paracast in the near future, but he will not talk anymore about those "bloody Roswell Slides." Who can blame him?

A wise choice on Nick Redfern's part.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I am so happy this business didn't get much coverage in the media. Very happy.

 

[Constance]

DaveM wrote in a now-deleted post: 222919, member: 699:

"Sorry to say Constance, you can believe what was presented at Mexico City. It took a few hours of using some enhancement software to show what the placard really said. Schmitt, Carey and party had years to have this analyzed and they could have shown high resolution pictures but they chose not to.

As established, Dave, the responsibility as well as the technical capability for digitally enhancing and releasing the enlarged slides was Adam Dew's. Schmitt and Carey might well have asked him every day last week to get on with it. Their error was in placing confidence in Dew's honesty and good faith in the first place.

Now they accuse those who found out what was written on the placard of photoshopping it in. Really? How lame came you get.

It was Dew who made that accusation. If you want to claim that Carey and Schmitt and Bragalia made that accusation, you need to show us where and when they did so. Otherwise you're continuing to make assumptions and to lodge false accusations yourself.

As far as forensic experts go... the two sides in a courtroom each have their experts. A totally independent review would be needed . . . .

And that is exactly what Dolan called for last Monday.

. . . lastly, I don't believe for a minute that Dolan only received lodging and travel expenses. Ufology is his business and Dolan doesn't do freebies.

It looks like he did this time, Dave. You don't believe him because you don't want to believe him. I not only don't, but can't, believe many of the statements you make about this case and its aftermath because you continue to misrepresent what people have said and to base your statements on assumptions.

This is the end of any comments I have on this sordid affair.

That's fine with me. I too am sick of talking about it. I've had to respond to your posts today to the extent that you have misrepresented certain facts and operate on unproved assumptions.

 

[Constance]

I am so happy this business didn't get much coverage in the media. Very happy.

I agree. We can be grateful for that.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I would be if he needed defense or representation. He doesn't. He has represented himself and his positions unambiguously in his responses to recent attacks on him, first for remaining open-minded about the identification of the body photographed in the slides after hearing the oral presentations of forensic specialists on May 5, and second in his statement yesterday, following Anthony Bragalia's uncovering the actual history of the Pueblo Indian child mummy by early Sunday morning. I wonder how many of those vilifying Dolan have actually read what he wrote in those two statements, much less the 1,200 pages so far published of his trilogy on the history of UFOs and the National Security State. Persons who have *not* read the first two volumes of that work are in no position to evaluate Dolan's contributions to modern ufo history and its demonstrated entanglement with multiple agencies of the US security state evolving in our time.

To impugn Dolan for withholding judgement on the Roswell slides in the early days of last week and on that basis to question his competence as a researcher is a demonstration of ignorance of his major contributions. To call for a rejection of all historical ufo research to date is staggeringly short-sighted. I have no idea what motivates the chorus of denunciations of what has been learned in ufo research over the last six decades. I think it is an important item of business for those of us genuinely interested in ufo investigation to find out what those motivations are. They appear to me at this point to be shallow and self-serving motivations. On the other hand it might be the case that these people are simply unable to articulate a rational and detailed basis for their extreme claims and demands.

I'm not questioning his previous research into the UFO phenomenon, and have read the first volume of his national security state trilogy which I enjoyed. What I am questioning however, is his involvement in this latest scam by Jaime Maussan et al, and his initial assertions that the mummified body of a young child may have been an alien entity of some kind. That clearly wasn't the case as even a blind man could see, and now Dolan is making a desperate climbdown and about-turn now that the facts are out. He should also have insisted on seeing the slides before he decided whether or not to go down to Mexico City in order to save himself the embarrassment of being caught up in this sordid affair. Nobody is questioning Dolan's contribution to the field or his past work. We are merely questioning his involvement in the Mexico City event which has now tainted him in a negative way. A mea culpa and handing back the money he received for his participation in the event is the least he could do to make amends. Richard Dolan isn't the be all of UFO research and if he happens to fall by the wayside, then don't worry, I'm sure someone else will eventually step into his shoes and take over. Ufology will not die with Dolan. There's really no need to defend him as if your life depended on it. Try to be a little objective every now and then.

 

[Standanista]

For me Dolan has blown a lot of his credibility getting involved in this. IMO this has been a money-making scam by a bunch of charlatans, and any serious and objective researcher would have seized on getting the placard/sign image analysed before most other stuff. Dolan went along with the charade and gave it tacit endorsement at least by appearing on stage as part of it.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I'm still amused and baffled by this fact; if I'm a nobody but knew in advance that the slides we're going to be bogus/fake/a sham etc. etc., how did these so called "experts" not come to the same conclusion I did? While the placard was the final nail in the coffin, I certainly didn't need commercial grade deblurring software to figure out I wasn't looking at a space alien.