Refuting the ETH: Angels/Aliens/Archetypes

[conor]

How's more important than why. Why can be fuddled by belief; how is how no matter what. Unless you can prove otherwise then THAT'S how but the result is still how. You can spend forever wondering "why" the sky is blue but you can explain "how" the sky is blue simply by reading up on light refraction and the way the rods and cones in the eye work.

http://philosophybites.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=536241#

 

[Gareth]

How else would they form? Randomly?

I've seen enough of McKenna to know I'm not interested in seeing more of McKenna.

If you're as open-minded as you claim, I would point you to the story of a neurologist who suffered a stroke and lost access to the left side of her brain. It took her eight years to fully recover (amazing in it's own right) but for the first few years she lived in the right brain world exclusively, experiencing much of what McKenna describes. Unfortunately I cannot for the life of me remember her name. She wrote a book about her experience but I can't recall the title either. Pity, it was fascinating stuff.

The point however being that these experiences do not point to the possibility of some nebulous otherworld outside our regular perception, they're simply the end result of a malfunctioning brain, whether disabled by illness or purposely short circuted by drugs. That's the science and no amount of hippie ramblings will ever convince me otherwise.

Oh COOOM'OON dude. If this stuff was a once-off singular anomaly experienced by someone using LSD or something I would probably agree. But were talking about consistency, not just for one person, but for many people.

Doesnt the concept of the brain as a reducing filter appeal to you at all? Its so apparent that human brain chemisty is so vulnerable, and seems to be so precise, and any fluctuations in or around certain levels can lead to all sorts of wacky shit like depression, identity issues, elation, euphoria, visual stuff, auditory stuff, etc. And the fact this happens consistently is to me evidence of 'stuff out there' ... I.E. stuff outside of our normal perception.

 

[CapnG]

And the fact this happens consistently is to me evidence of 'stuff out there' ... I.E. stuff outside of our normal perception.

In the first place I've never seen any data demonstrating consistency in DMT accounts beyond the existence of an "other" that communicates with you. The reports I've read vary wildly in their description of who this entity is (or appears to be) indicating it's highly personalized, as one would expect for such a subject experience.

However, taking your statement of consistency as fact, all that does is point to a repeatable, cause and effect response as you find with any drug from antacid to morphine. Predictable consistency works against the "magical, mystical, fairy-world" theory and in favour of the "screwed up brain chemistry makes you see weird shit" theory.

 

[Trajanus]

McKenna died of a brain tumour, a condition known to induce hallucinations WITHOUT the addition of drugs. Now add drugs to that equation and I'm sure it all seemed very real and magical. Only it wasn't. The man was sick and he was wrong and now he's dead. End of story.

It may be true that none of us can state categorically what the phenomenon represents (some government agency might be able of course but that hasn't been confirmed). But it sure seems ET, and that idea appears here to stay; it has persisted for decades already. Mention the term UFO and people automatically think : "aliens!" One thing seems certain; whatever the phenomenon is, generally it appears to want us to think it represents aliens. This reminds me of the dinosaur extinction debates. Ever since Alvarez's evidence was presented, the impact theory has had plenty of dissenters. But try as they might, the proponents of volcanism, climate change, faunal disequilibrium etc just can't make real headway against the by now ingrained impact idea. For while the asteroid hit notion has some problems, on the whole the case for it is good enough to ensure it has no serious competition.

 

[Schuyler]

I know he's kind of dated now, but all this reminds me of Carlos Castaneda's books, introduce to me in a Philosophy of Religion class. The similarity is in the context of the drugs (peyote, mostly, as I remember) which Don Juan used to alter Carlos's perception of reality. This went on for a couple of books until it came out that the whole thing was a set-up by Don Juan. The so-called 'evil sorceress' turned out to be a friend of Don Juan. Carlos really didn't need the drugs, etc.

There is some doubt about the veracity of Castenada's books. He may have plagarized in some places, but if you are into this sort of thing, they are well worth a read.

 

[TClaeys]

It may be true that none of us can state categorically what the phenomenon represents (some government agency might be able of course but that hasn't been confirmed). But it sure seems ET, and that idea appears here to stay; it has persisted for decades already.

Yes, I'm really not understanding the "ETH does not work" comment. While it may not work for everything it is as viable as anything else, maybe moreso. It certainly seems more logical that some unseen, undiscovered, mysterious entity that stems from our own planet or the ethereal cloudiness of our consciousness.

Maybe science (which would probably be able to observe and measure even the subjective given the time) hasn't matured enough in 60 years to allow us to really get at the heart of the matter. I mean we barely just got off the ground (literally) and we want conclusive summaries of that explain UFO phenomenon in it's entirety?? Hell, not only have we just learned to fly, we learned that other galaxies exist, that they are accelerating apart, and that there are other planets outside our solar system. Oh yeah, and we can now, within the last 15 years, communicate without flying or sailing a handwritten letter around the globe. Perspective.

My guess is that within the next 100 years we will send out probes (maybe something similar to Von Neuman) to an area of the galaxy we have defined as having habitable planets as an observational data collection unit. And maybe withing the next 100 years we stumble upon technologies that allow us to accomplish such feats in shorter timeframes. If we would do such a thing, then why wouldn't some other space faring civilization do the same?? Maybe they have that "one up" or "one hundred up" on us. It seems they would have to. But the ETH isn't a dead end IMO. Perhaps is just one of a plethora of origins for such anomalies. Why does there have to be just one answer??

 

[Bixyboo]

Jill Bolte Taylor is the name of the woman (and herself a doctor) who wrote a book about her experiences with suffering a stroke:

 

[Rudolf Steiner]

Maybe I'm going to ask about something stupid, but what about that "theorie" which claim that aliens are Humans but from the future. Sounds interesting.

 

[TClaeys]

Maybe I'm going to ask about something stupid, but what about that "theorie" which claim that aliens are Humans but from the future. Sounds interesting.

Not stupid. And without re-watching the video I believe McKenna talks about this as a possibility, although to him not a frontrunner. Time travel is another one of those things that really never fades, even without the contraptions to test for it or even the faintest inkling of how we would ever find out.

 

[Rudolf Steiner]

Never fades because is interesting!

 

[CapnG]

Jill Bolte Taylor is the name of the woman (and herself a doctor) who wrote a book about her experiences with suffering a stroke

Thanks Bixyboo, you rock!

 

[TClaeys]

This reminds me of the dinosaur extinction debates. Ever since Alvarez's evidence was presented, the impact theory has had plenty of dissenters. But try as they might, the proponents of volcanism, climate change, faunal disequilibrium etc just can't make real headway against the by now ingrained impact idea. For while the asteroid hit notion has some problems, on the whole the case for it is good enough to ensure it has no serious competition.

Hmmm. Not to change the subject to dinosaur extinction, but for what it is worth I just came across this.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091015102246.htm

 

[Trajanus]

Maybe I'm going to ask about something stupid, but what about that "theorie" which claim that aliens are Humans but from the future. Sounds interesting.

It assumes time travel is possible but it's hard to conceive of it. Imagine someone going back in time to kill his parents before he was born. The past doesn't exist anymore. Consider also the insectoid and reptoid ET reports. Could human evolution regress in the future like that?

 

[Trajanus]

Hmmm. Not to change the subject to dinosaur extinction, but for what it is worth I just came across this.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091015102246.htm

Chatterjee has trumpeted Shiva for many years but others, like Koeberl, deny it is even an impact structure. At one time Chatterjee claimed there was an impact horizon at Bara Simla hill but when dino remains turned up in the intertraps stratigraphically above that level, he shifted the putative end to Anjar. But that too is apparently geologically too early.

 

[Trajanus]

Yes, I'm really not understanding the "ETH does not work" comment. While it may not work for everything it is as viable as anything else, maybe moreso. It certainly seems more logical that some unseen, undiscovered, mysterious entity that stems from our own planet or the ethereal cloudiness of our consciousness.

The ETH is the most parsimonious view.

Maybe science (which would probably be able to observe and measure even the subjective given the time) hasn't matured enough in 60 years to allow us to really get at the heart of the matter. I mean we barely just got off the ground (literally) and we want conclusive summaries of that explain UFO phenomenon in it's entirety?? Hell, not only have we just learned to fly, we learned that other galaxies exist, that they are accelerating apart, and that there are other planets outside our solar system. Oh yeah, and we can now, within the last 15 years, communicate without flying or sailing a handwritten letter around the globe. Perspective.

Science may not be able to explain advanced ET technology but it has progressed far enough for us to interpret the phenomenon as spacefarers instead of a supernatural entity.

My guess is that within the next 100 years we will send out probes (maybe something similar to Von Neuman)

I don't know if the self replication idea will work.

to an area of the galaxy we have defined as having habitable planets as an observational data collection unit. And maybe withing the next 100 years

If reverse engineering stories have any truth to them we may not have to wait so long.

we stumble upon technologies that allow us to accomplish such feats in shorter timeframes. If we would do such a thing, then why wouldn't some other space faring civilization do the same?? Maybe they have that "one up" or "one hundred up" on us. It seems they would have to. But the ETH isn't a dead end IMO. Perhaps is just one of a plethora of origins for such anomalies. Why does there have to be just one answer??

Again parsimony--if one explanation fits, all others are superfluous.

 

[Rudolf Steiner]

I thought that the most parsimonious interpretation was explain everything as a mistake or lies from the observer, or misundertood of natural phenomena.

 

[Trajanus]

I thought that the most parsimonious interpretation was explain everything as a mistake or lies from the observer, or misundertood of natural phenomena.

Just a good straightforward explanation in line with the evidence so that all others are not needed.

 

[Kieran]

ETH, Does not seem right, but maybe the UFOs are not from just one place, but many unknown places. Just say for argument sake, say these Nordic beings live in a world that is beside us, and they have the technology to travel to this world through wormholes, so why, not planets out in the universe. This race could be around for a million even a billion years, who can say for sure, maybe they have a history on other planets?

Maybe all UFO'S are ETH, like how advanced would a race of beings on a different planet be? they probably have developed to a different structure of development then us, so maybe the technology and weirdness of the topic, is just Alien beings who have came to this planet, from a different planet or universe.

 

[Kieran]

I just had a crazy theory come to me. Imagine everything we knows about UFO'S , and that everything we assume about where the UfO's come from like planets and the like are wrong, It has be written before and discussed about before, so it nothing new, anyway that UFO occupants are actually us, but deceased u might say, they might be able to appear physical to us in look and touch, but they do not suffer illness or pain like we do here on this earth, and also they can appear as ghosts and other forms of energy to people.Maybe this explains the secrecy behind the UFO occupants remaining silent, the afterlife can not be revealed openly, it has to remain closed, with a just a few minor glimpses of it in experiences by people. Crazy thought, i know, i hope i make sense in this theory to everyone.

 

[Trajanus]

Crazy indeed. While some ETs do look like humans, there have been insectoid, reptoid even fishlike entities reported. And why would ghosts--if they could exist at all; I don't see how consciousness can continue without a physical brain and body--carry out examination of abductees?