Kieran
Paranormal Adept
I have a response,but i am useing my phone so i get back with a answer when i get a chance to get on the computer
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Refuting the ETH: Angels/Aliens/Archetypes
- Thread starter Christopher O'Brien
- Start date
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I have a response,but i am useing my phone so i get back with a answer when i get a chance to get on the computer
Schuyler
Misanthrope
Of course I do not know and won't, I hope, for some time, but my guess is consciousness is the ONLY thing that can continue without a brain and body.
CapnG
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You have promted me to make my first Paracast post.
Anyone who seems so sure of themself is either deluded or full of pretense in my opinion. Your tag is 'Devil's Advocate' so maybe your just playing up to it.
I would sugest we stop playing up to you and feeding your fevered ego. To this end I sugest we end this thread.
You have promted me to make my first Paracast post.
Anyone who seems so sure of themself is either deluded or full of pretense in my opinion. Your tag is 'Devil's Advocate' so maybe your just playing up to it.
I would sugest we stop playing up to you and feeding your fevered ego. To this end I sugest we end this thread.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
"Fevered ego"... that's rich coming from a guy who calls himself "the man".
It's certainy true that my devil's advocate nature often exerts itself simply to get a rise out of people by pricking at their beliefs but not in this case. I honestly think that McKenna's work is insignificant in terms of it's contribution to the UFO/ET riddle. Fascinating from a neuro-science point-of-view but of no practical benefit here.
If you think having a strong opinion equates to having a huge ego, well I can't help you with that. My opinions are my own and make no apologies for them.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
I just don't see how.
Then you obviously haven't done your homework.
Perhaps being raised in the era of "Just say no" has colored your thinking? Suggestion: Find some crystal DMT, sit quietly in a dark room for ten minutes, light it up, say hello to the "machine elves" ask a few questions, get some enlightened answers and then get back to us fifteen minutes later when you are done.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
Yes it is a crazy idea indeed, but how can we be certain that all entities seen and reported have merit. We are born, we live our lives, we die hopefully of old age, but with disease, dangers of life and other things, sometimes that is not always the case.Most of us in the world have grown up with our own ideas and beliefs of what the afterlife is, and what it is all about. We are conditioned by religion, to believe when we die, we go to Heaven and are welcomed with open arms by God and Jesus near the front Gates of heaven and this, is where we will live out the rest of our days for eternity.That is of course, if you have followed the rules, and have led a good live. The people who have led a bad life, hell is your faith.
I have many problems with this, because if God created man, and is all seeing why create evil, the mistake was by God, not the individual. I actually do believe in the afterlife once you pass on , but religion attempts to put everything in a particular box, and goes about, telling me this is what it is, and this what you have to do to have a chance of getting in.
Other entities have been reported, I agree, but we can not presume that the afterlife is a nothing, but a human experience, and that the afterlife does not contain other lifeforms beside us. It speculation i know, but the afterlife is just that, speculation, the true test for it existence happens when you die, it going to happen it unavoidable.
You make a good point, how can our consciousness still be there when you have no brain or physical body. True our brain is the computer, it contains our identity, everything about you, comes from the brain, so naturally you think when you die, how can that information that is stored in your brain move on with you, after you die, when your brain is left behind and decays, like the rest of your body, which leaves only but a skeleton.
That is an honest question, i don't think anyone could really answer that for sure.Near dead experience, even though sometimes the descriptions are vague by the witness, it seems to suggest, you become a spirit, with no need of a body to enter that afterlife, and also from reading reports from cases from people, who have claimed, near death experience, they are aware of their identity and what was happening to them as they floated above their bodies.
It could be debated, if your a not gone fully in dead, then maybe you experienced something created by your brain.
Even though to the doctors in their opinion, you were brain dead, but i read of a case here on a different thread, where a women saw things when she left her body, which she, could not have known, even when she was alive, and after all this women, was declared dead for a number of minutes, so even in this state, what she claimed she saw was impossible.
I have discussed one encounter with my Aunt and uncle,you might not have read it, and if you don't, believe what i said, it is your choice, you do not know me, or probably don't care to know me. For me, i just led out a fact of one of their experiences, honestly with no hidden agenda.
Now they have ghostly experiences happening in their lives, along side this different experiences for many years, and i can not discuss it or write about it here until, they give me permission to do so. What i am trying to say to you, there is connection, between these experience and the other experiences. I am not claiming any answers, like i said i think there is connection, but what the details of that connection are, i am unsure of.
My uncle said, when he saw this beings, they were physical to him, but when they vanished, solid materials like concrete, plaster, and the floorboards did not stop them. At least the one on my Aunts side, sunk right down pass the concrete and floorboards. That makes no sense to me, our my uncle, our my aunt,our even family members, but it happened, they have no reason to lie and they are not that kind of people who make up stories to get attention.
It only a theory, Trajanus, and when you read stories of UFO cases, it suggests something far different, how can craft, come from the afterlife, and why are people in the afterlife doing abductions.They might not be from a such a place, but maybe they are aware of this place. It hard to put this theory on a page in a logical manner.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
I don't think it's right to dismiss reports of unusual forms because they don't fit our preconceptions of what ETs should look like. Provided the witnesses are OK, one should accept them all or reject them all.
Man clearly evolved from earlier hominids.
Could be just the brain hallucinating as it shuts down.
If cave men could see our TV, or holograms, they'd assume it had to be something supernatural. We've heard how wormholes may allow instantabneous travel; maybe advanced physical ETs can beam themselves around instantly like they were disembodied spirits. Or maybe they saw holographic projections that looked very realistic.
I'll stick with the ETH.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
I don't think it's right to dismiss reports of unusual forms because they don't fit our preconceptions of what ETs should look like. Provided the witnesses are OK, one should accept them all or reject them all.
Man clearly evolved from earlier hominids.
Could be just the brain hallucinating as it shuts down.
If cave men could see our TV, or holograms, they'd assume it had to be something supernatural. We've heard how wormholes may allow instantabneous travel; maybe advanced physical ETs can beam themselves around instantly like they were disembodied spirits. Or maybe they saw holographic projections that looked very realistic.
I'll stick with the ETH.
Some of your answers are very simplistic at best. They were physical not holograms and they did not beam out, they simply sucked right through the top of the room and disappeared.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Then you obviously haven't done your homework.
Perhaps being raised in the era of "Just say no" has colored your thinking? Suggestion: Find some crystal DMT, sit quietly in a dark room for ten minutes, light it up, say hello to the "machine elves" ask a few questions, get some enlightened answers and then get back to us fifteen minutes later when you are done.
Oh I've done my homework. Like for instance, did you know that a tiny-but-definite percentage of persons who injest DMT (around 0.01%) simply "check out"? That is to say they enter a catatonic state and never recover. And that's according to McKenna's own brother's research not some Reagan-era boogeyman.
So, on the off chance I fall into that slim percentile, no thanks. You gamble with your brain chemistry all you like just hope you don't roll snake eyes. While you're at it, why don't you mess with the wiring in your house randomly and tinker with your brakes in haphazard manner. I'm sure it won't do any harm...
You guys are funny sometimes. You accuse me of worshipping at the altar of science and being too rigid in my thinking and yet you're all so dedicated to asserting that this represents something that's really real and significant and somehow not the meaningless, delusional tripping of a drug-soaked brain. Why? This sort of desperate need for something otherwise unprovable to be taken as truth is... well, religious in nature.
You want to waste time talking to things that aren't there and only you can see when you're stoned outta your mind, you go ahead. When you have something of worth to offer then you can get back to us.
UFO experiences are very subjective experiences, and this is one of McKenna's. Just something to talk about. capnG, I don't think that saying that one persons opinion is above someone else, if it is honest and felt as such. So, I don't think that anyone's opinion should be taken above antone else. Do you totally discount McKenna in everything he ever says? Or do you choose not to go down the road of dogma, and say that perhaps what this person had experienced is "real" is some way?
Hey Conor: Great find! I appreciate your efforts here in this thread, but you cast pearls before, uhh ostriches that long to lose the sand in their eyes.
A wise man never said: You can lead a thirsty horse to water and tell it a joke, but you'll never be able to make it laugh or stop snoring...
A wise man never said: You can lead a thirsty horse to water and tell it a joke, but you'll never be able to make it laugh or stop snoring...
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
In the sense that all experience (and therefore reality) only exists within the confines of the brain, I have no doubt what McKenna experienced was very "real"... to him. Unfortunately it has no bearing (and thus no real relevance) to anyone who is not him (ie the rest of us).
I will retract (well, modify) one of my previous statements regarding McKenna however by saying that his work is minimally significant to the whole ET/UFO question but only in the sense that it makes one wonder if an even greater percentage of UFO sightings may simply be delusions caused by random, momentary malfunctions of the brain than we currently assume.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
I doubt you will, but if you are as open-minded as you should be, listen to the following presentation made by research scientist James Fadiman. A group of open-minded middle-aged professionals who had never "tripped" before were given mescaline as part of a scientific study. These scientists, designers, architects, engineers, etc were asked to solve a particularly vexing problem(s) from their workplace—in some cases problems that had been worked on unsuccessfully for years. The results were astounding (especially to people like the capnG's of the world) but to anyone that has used these compounds as a tool, this is old news.
Go ahead and listen, I think you'll find this scientific look at the human mind under the influence of hallucinogenic compounds interesting, at the very least. Perhaps it will help to de-program your front-loaded misconceptions. But then again, after reading your posts in this thread and witnessing your judgmental, arrogant attitude, probably not.
Go to: http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/?p=141
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
Sometimes it should be; it depends on evidence. Some people say UFOs are supernatural or from the center of the earth or our future. Such notions fly in the face of science and rationality; the ETH doesn't. Where do UFOs usually appear to go after a sighting? Up, which says something.
Yeah but, what about the hundreds—if not thousands—of sightings of UFOs disappearing into bodies of water, dissolving into nothingness, simply blinking out, morphing into clouds, descending into the ground or flying directly into mountains?
Schuyler
Misanthrope
What is it about consciousness that requires physicality? BTW, I'm not saying your point of view is invalid or wrong. It could very well be right. It's just that if you insist on this rationalist point of view, it limits what you allow yourself to think about.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
Well, you could also say that the ETH assumes faster than light travel, which 'flies in the face of science and rationality' according to the constraints in place with reality as scientists define it now. Of course UFOs go 'up.' If they went 'down' they'd crash. All that says is that they prefer not to crash. It says nothing about where they come from.