Ridiculous theories that the author know's is bogus but perpetuates

[Randall]

Hold on, I'm no supporter of any of the alien-abduction hypnosis guys and gals but I heard Dr Jacobs on Mysterious Universe just last night claim he doesn't charge anything to 'abductees'.
So either that is a lie or he thinks he is providing a service. Like many others, my biggest problem with the whole abduction theory is simply the scale. I just cannot accept that hundreds of thousands of US citizens (for starters) have been abducted. Extend that to other countries and you have something bigger than the scale of V the tv series!

I tend to think that a more reasonable way to look at the scale of abductions is to say that they are proportional to genuine UFO experiences. After all the noise is removed we have a small percentage of genuine UFO cases and of those it's not unreasonable to think that some small proportion of those might involve some form of alien contact and that of those some even smaller portion might be considered as abductions. That's not to say that I tend to believe any particular case, although I do tend to believe Chris' personal story, and I've had weird childhood experiences that fit the mould, so that's at least two here on this forum.

I'm not sure how we'd extrapolate these and other stories into hard numbers, but we could just throw some numbers out there to play with. Let's say that 1 in 5000 people in low density population areas born between 1947 and 1987 have had an experience that fits the abduction story pattern. How many people would that be roughly? I'm guessing maybe 10,000, and out of that we can probably eliminate at least some as being sleep disorders or hoaxes or hallucinations, whatever the case may be. Let's arbitrarily chop it by 50% and we end up with maybe around 5000 genuine cases, of which only a fraction have been reported. That seems a lot easier to swallow than millions and millions.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

This comment doesn't have anything to do with the thread but it just occurred to me; I find it fascinating that some people have MULTIPLE sightings, experiences when meanwhile, you get someone like me who has been into the UFO subject since 1979 am REGULARLY looking for something in the sky (both day & night) and never once saw anything even a little weird. This includes approximately the 2000 hours of my life I spent inside the P-3C Orion PURPOSELY looking for something odd during day missions and night missions (with night vision goggles). But as much as I wish I had a story or incident, I don't have one.

...And by extension, we have the people like Whitley Strieber, who claim experiences and sightings of not only UFOs on multiple occasions, but many other varied paranormal events/creatures etc!

I do agree with you that if we consider solely something like UFOs then mathematically, the probability of seeing multiple distinct UFO events is minuscule compared to the probability of seeing just the one event. The thing to bear in mind though, is that this holds only for nuts and bolts UFOs. If there is any kind of high-strange weirdness behind some or the whole of the UFO phenomenon, then it is perfectly feasible to argue that for reasons unknown, certain people may either be able to see things other people cannot, or somehow they act as some kind of paranormal lightning rod - they literally are somehow unconsciously involved in the attraction of UFOs.

As for people who claim multiple experiences involving distinct paranormal events (ghosts/ufo/bigfoot etc) then I think the same argument as above works, that is if there is a single source for most paranormal events. I tend to think all paranormal events are just different manifestations of the same force, but what that force may be I've no idea. I think the majority of people who do claim multiple experiences probably confabulate or lie but I do think it can happen. Strieber I think is a con-man I'm afraid. I just don't buy his story, certainly nothing from the last 15 years, as he seems to fit the bill of those who have a real experience but need to repeat the publicity and interest for some reason and they create stuff to be able to continue to be interesting.

 

[Polterwurst]

How many of them know it's complete b.s. but do this on purpose in order to sell books/materials/tickets to speaking events?

Basically anyone who speculates about WW II Nazis finding the secret of anti-gravity and/or field propulsion etc., building flying saucers or bells or maintaning secret bases to this day, having secret alien contact etcs. Basically anyone who goes on about Reptilian overlords. Anyone who still tries to sell Billy Meier's photos as the real deal. Anyone who talks about 50+ alien races visiting earth and personally having had shootouts with some of them. Anyone who presents fetuses, child or monkey mummies or mutant chickens as possible aliens or cryptozoological.
And on and on and on.
You know, there should be laws against this kind of stuff.

 

[Spectre73]

Funny I've often thought similar. Never seen a thing. And, as mentioned you get folk claiming multiple sightings. But of course this could be part of the phenomenon. And of course my BS rader often rings over such claims.

I have a hard time accepting many abduction stories (of course, as mentioned that does not mean all are false)

As Goggs said the sheer amount of alleged abductions claimed is just insane and would seem an impossible task even for an advanced technology.

I sometimes wonder is it possible that it is the Soul (for whatever that may be) that is the thing taken? (if any of it is true) and thus would not be physical. That may explain the high numbers speculated ???

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Basically anyone who speculates about WW II Nazis finding the secret of anti-gravity and/or field propulsion etc., building flying saucers or bells or maintaning secret bases to this day, having secret alien contact etcs. Basically anyone who goes on about Reptilian overlords. Anyone who still tries to sell Billy Meier's photos as the real deal. Anyone who talks about 50+ alien races visiting earth and personally having had shootouts with some of them. Anyone who presents fetuses, child or monkey mummies or mutant chickens as possible aliens or cryptozoological.
And on and on and on.
You know, there should be laws against this kind of stuff.

That's exactly what I think and good points.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Funny I've often thought similar. Never seen a thing. And, as mentioned you get folk claiming multiple sightings. But of course this could be part of the phenomenon. And of course my BS rader often rings over such claims.

I have a hard time accepting many abduction stories (of course, as mentioned that does not mean all are false)

As Goggs said the sheer amount of alleged abductions claimed is just insane and would seem an impossible task even for an advanced technology.

I sometimes wonder is it possible that it is the Soul (for whatever that may be) that is the thing taken? (if any of it is true) and thus would not be physical. That may explain the high numbers speculated ???

Agreed. I don't want to dig up this old horse, but....

Most abduction cases are bogus but the #1 most ludicrous case (IMO) is the Cortile case. I mean, UFO abduction cases are bizarre to begin with and hard to swallow, but c'mon, her entire case is laughable. You don't even have to get into the details, just the overview of what happened is unfathomable. And yet, there are people (people right here on these forums) that 100% buy into the case.

 

[Randall]

Ridiculous Theory #2: Alien visitation is impossible because ( INSERT THEORY HERE ).

 

[Creepy Green Light]

BTW, on the advice of someone on these forums, I went and sought out the Aaron Kaplan episode. I turned it off after 5 minutes. Not because of his ridiculousness, but because I could only understand about every 5th word he said.

 

[Spectre73]

Ridiculous Theory #2: Alien visitation is impossible because ( INSERT THEORY HERE ).

I agree with you there Ufology.

A chap I know posted on his facebook the other day

"Man will never leave our Solar System"

That is some statement...

 

[SheaOlmsford]

It seems like more & more everyone & there mother has their own theory on specific UFO cases or events like 9/11. I wonder how many of the supposed theories are bogus and the researcher/author/person knows it but aggressively perpetuates it because they know there are a lot of gullible/stupid people on this earth that will buy into it (figuratively & literally). Why can't 9/11 be that radical muslims hijacked planes and crashed them into targets? And thats it? Why does it have to be a conspiracy within a conspiracy within a conspiracy? It's like a lot of these authors/researchers have the minds of science fiction writers and are basically writing a sci fi story - accept they perpetrate it as if it's valid - on any level. How many of them know it's complete b.s. but do this on purpose in order to sell books/materials/tickets to speaking events?

One can go on for days and days and days going through the mountain of ridiculous theories & ideas. What's most amazing is that people are taken in by this. I suppose some things could be an inside job or conspiracy. But not every single event that happens is. Yet some people with wild imaginations write books/blogs, etc. knowing that fools will trip over themselves to purchase it and believe it. It's like a feeding frenzy with cart blanche for the writers/authors. The mentality is almost like "Hey, if people are willing to believe (and put their life on the line) that a flying saucer is trailing the Hale Bopp comet then there are suckers that will buy & believe anything."

I'm just overly tired of the ridiculous conspiracy theories. I'm always open minded to realistic scenarios - but I'd wish the outlandish ones didn't exist and would just go away.

I realize that 911 is merely used as an example, not the focus of your post. However, just consider this before you refuse to even consider so-called conspiracies about it. How likely is it that after total devastation of both towers, that authorities would just happen to find one of the terrorist's passports (not burned) laying on the sidewalk? How likely is it that by the next day the authorities would have a total portfolio of all the men that supposedly did this terrorist act? Since over 1500 architects have signed a petition saying that there is no way that a burning jet could have caused the collapse of both towers, don't you think their professional viewpoint has any significance? OK, enough on that.

Secondly, you seem to be appalled by outlandish theories. But we are dealing with an outlandish phenomena. What makes you assume that the outlandish theories are automatically wrong, whereas more mundane theories are more acceptable? At one time, Science did not accept that rocks could fall from the sky. The very thought was outlandish, yet farmers and peasants continued to report it to authorities. They were, of course, referring to meteorites. But the cosmology of the day could not accept such things. Eventually, these outlandish observations changed our entire view of the cosmos. We no longer lived on a flat earth with a dome of blue above us, through which light appeared through millions of tiny holes in the dome. Who are you to determine what is outlandish?

This does not mean that I personally believe every theory and story that comes along. I leave that to Alfred Webre and the Exopolitics gang. But I do have a very large space reserved for peoples' experiences and theories. If you are going to simply say "Oh, that is total rubbish" and refuse to even consider a theory, then you are not much different than the Elite who once considered rocks that fall from the sky to be rubbish.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I think that none of us can read minds here. Of course, I could be wrong. I have my own views on who is not authentic, but I cannot prove it. For one thing, there is nothing common about common sense. I have had people make grand proclamations based on this new god called "common sense". But I have found that what each of us considers common sense is actually uniquely our own. While others may share some of our views, there is such a wide circumference to what is considered common sense (ask a right wing fundamentalist Christian to define common sense. Then ask a progressive gay person). Therefore, I have used a lot of words to say that all we can do is offer opinions.

I take nothing said by the Exopolitics gang (which I believe includes Richard Dolan and Dr. Greer) as solid truth. It may be entertaining and offer food for thought and amusement, but I just do not believe there is a magic wardrobe that zips people to Mars in seconds, including President Obama (Basiago of Exopolitics promotes this and other astonishing claims). Can I disprove it? No. Could it be true? Possibly. There's actually no reason an extremely advanced technology couldn't do this. But even in my open minded attitude, I do roll my eyes at much of what comes out of Exopolitics.

I also have a jaundiced view of Whitley Strieber. I have already posted my thoughts on him here. I cannot proclaim that he never had any real experiences. He supposedly has had life long colon damage from his initial encounters with the now famous rectal probe. However, I feel that in recent years he has tried to sustain his relevance by being a camp follower of current ufology trends. My first loss-of-faith occurred years after he had published THE SECRET SCHOOL, which consisted of a lot of childhood memories and future visions. He claimed to have been a child when he viewed the FACE ON MARS, which was a very hot topic when he wrote this book. Subsequent close camera shots of the face now proven it was a trick of light. There is no face there. Sorry, Whitley.

In the same book, he claimed that he had a vision of Los Angeles when he was old (in his late 60's, which he is now). In that vision, vaste sand dunes flowed across the run ways of LA International Airport. Now, even in the worst case drought conditions of California, I doubt the LA International Airport would be permitted to be reduced to sand dunes. Has Whitley never heard of black top? I am in Phoenix and much of the sand that could be blown around within the urban center has either been cemented over or paved over with blacktop.

He also claimed that he and his wife Anne would be living in their decaying condo in San Antonio right now, collecting nuts to eat after the US Government had been destroyed by terrorists. Well, we all know that Anne sadly has died so this is not going to come true.

He also claimed to have seen the creation of the moon from a huge asteroid impact on the Earth which threw up the moon. But we now know that the moon is OLDER than the earth, and was either pulled into position or was grabbed by gravity to circle the Earth.

So, this book is just loaded with nonsense which has been refuted by subsequent knowledge and events. Much of what he wrote made perfect sense then, since he is a very acutely aware of current trends in ufology.

Since then, whatever the latest trend is in ufology seems to cause Whitley to do a "me too, me too" singsong.

Back when alien drones were posted to YOUTUBE (and later all revealed to be hoaxes by the actual people who created them), Whitley insisted that he saw a real alien drone, just like the YOUTUBE videos. He clung to his tedious story of waking up in Santa Monica and seeing it outside his window.

Back when TIME TRAVELERS was popular as a possible explanation for UFOs, Whitley suddenly became a time traveler. He recounted various times he had traveled through time. Is there anything strange that this man has not done?

Back when black eyed children became the rage in the paranormal world, guess what? Yes! Whitley Strieber suddenly remembered having encountered a black eyed child.

Whitley also keeps bringing up new alien species that he claims he has interacted with, including the hunky Blonde Nordics. Yet none of this books included anything about Nordics.

Jumping to current times, Whitley supported Jamie Maisson and Linda M. Howe in their assertion that the alien slides were real. He even proclaimed that he believed that government agents had posted a fake museum sign in front of the mummy (alien) to throw off future investigators.

Whitley is usually fascinating to listen to in interviews. He is not a stupid man. But I give him no credence anymore.

If ufology began to become frenzied with reports of little alien greys wearing pink 1950's chiffon prom dresses, I am sure Whitley would go on C2C to announce that he was the first to see little alien greys wearing pink 1950's chiffon prom dresses decades ago.

Now, if anyone else wants to offer their OPINIONS on others in ufology that seem bogus, that would be great. Don't count on it though.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Another person who I feel has no credence is Stan Romanek. He is famous for having a cardboard cutout of a grey alien appear in his front picture window. He was also seen to fake poltergeist activity in a video interview he did. Now he is accused of possessing child pornography. Of course, he and his wife claim that he is being framed for his dangerous disclosures of alien presence. Uh huh. I really don't want to waste more time writing about this man.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Maybe he just has a cardboard complex.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I cannot read the mind of David Jacobs. If I had to merely guess, I would say he probably does believe his own press. I also heard him on MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE, where they gave him a very warm and polite reception. I don't think he would convince Emma Woods that she has a mental disease if he wasn't serious. Supposedly, Jacobs hypnotized Emma Woods to implant the idea that she had multiple personalities rather than actual alien encounters. Jacobs supposedly did this to convince aliens and their "hubrids" that he did not believe in her story. He implanted this because he believed that alien hubrids were texting him and lived in an apartment complex near him. As crazy as this sounds, I just don't think he would do this unless he actually believed that he was in danger. I cannot just discount his book (which I ordered merely to keep abreast on this aspect of ufology) merely because it is "outlandish". I do not believe Earth is in any danger from aliens among us, because he wrote THE THREAT almost 2 decades ago, and the alien invasion has not yet occurred. As the hosts of MYSTERIOUS UNIVERSE said after their interview, how could these slap happy goofy hubrids pose any danger to Earth? They do not know anything about Earth reality. They have to be taught how to eat, dress, interact! They don't even know what music is. The hosts said that in reading Jacobs latest book about the invasion of Earth covertly by hubrids, they burst out laughing at times at how inept and silly the hubrids were. Picture planet Earth being infiltrated by hundreds of young Jerry Lewis types who tend to fall over their own feet when they try to walk fast.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

According to what Jacobs said a few years ago, there is a recording, not released by Woods, where they set up the multiple personality session with her knowledge and approval. Consider the reality: What motive would he have to try to induce that sort of symptom if there wasn't what he felt was a logical reason to do so?

Basically there is more to this than meets the eye, and I gather you've mostly heard one version of the story, and not much of the other version.

It's not about whether you approve of how Jacobs handled the matter, but wouldn't it be appropriate to consider both sides?

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I agree with you there Ufology.

A chap I know posted on his facebook the other day

"Man will never leave our Solar System"

That is some statement...

Man will probably never leave the solar system in our life time. Unless there is a major scientific break through, I doubt anyone alive on Earth today will see humans leave the solar system simply because "where would they go?" Unless there is a dramatic discovery, it would take generations to get to the nearest planetary system. Without warp drive or bending space/time, this just isn't going to happen very fast.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

According to what Jacobs said a few years ago, there is a recording, not released by Woods, where they set up the multiple personality session with her knowledge and approval. Consider the reality: What motive would he have to try to induce that sort of symptom if there wasn't what he felt was a logical reason to do so?

Basically there is more to this than meets the eye, and I gather you've mostly heard one version of the story, and not much of the other version.

It's not about whether you approve of how Jacobs handled the matter, but wouldn't it be appropriate to consider both sides?

Are you talking to me? My post about Jacobs said that I thought he was sincere. While I do think his practices are a little shady, I don't think my comments cast blame upon him. Someone earlier in this thread trashed him though as being a conscious fraud.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I merely want people to consider both sides of the story and not assume so much on the basis of the evidence posted mostly by one side. That, apparently, is what started huge debates that got far too emotional, unfortunately.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I spent a lot of time (idle hands do the Reptilians work) creating my own little cataloging of UFO source and intent. This is a few years old, but I am going to share it. Why? Just in case it provokes other theories for consideration. My placement of individuals is purely subjective. My placement on the list means I have audio records of this person on file. I have many other files of other ufo related people but I cannot categorize where they fit below. For example, I have numerous Travis Walton files but no one seems to ask him if he thinks the aliens are good or evil in simplistic terms. Others like Richard Dolan seem to focus on disclosure and secret civilizations.

ALIENS/UFOS ARE:

1. A RACE OF REPTILIANS LIVING UNDER THE EARTH

TYPICAL PROMOTER: John Rhodes, Pamela Stonebrook

2. NAZI'S THAT DEVELOPED UFO TECHNOLOGY

TYPICAL PROMOTERS: Joseph Farrell, Len Kasten, Peter Levenda

3. A BENEVOLENT LIFE FORM FROM ANOTHER PLANET OR DIMENSION DOING RESEARCH OR HELPING HUMANKIND EVOLVE

Wilber Allen, Richard Boylan, Dolores Cannon, Miriam Delicado, Kim Carlsberg, Judy Carroll, Robert O. Dean, Michael Elligion (Ashtar Command), Charles Hall, Paola Harris, James Gilliland, Steven Greer, Michael Horn, Lyn Kitei, Nancy Leider, John Mack, Jim Moroney, Nick Redfern (Contactees), Mary Rodwell, Michael Salla, Robert Stiles, Clifford Stone, Whitley Strieber (on a good day), Paul Von Ward, Alfred Webre, David Wilcock

4. A MALEVOLENT LIFE FORM FROM ANOTHER PLANET OR DIMENSION

James Bartley, Timothy Beckley, Timothy Good, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs, Jim Keith, Bill McDonald, John Lear, Eve Lorgen, Carrado Malanga, Nick Redfern (Men In Black), Anthony Sanchez (Dulce), Phil Schneider, Paul Schroeder, Derrel Sims, Whitley Strieber (on a bad day), Karla Turner, Butch Witkowski

4. FALLEN ANGELS/DEMONS

Tim Beckley, Doug Hamp, Tom Horn, Joe Jordan, Guy Malone, L. A. Marzulli, Chuck Missler, Nick Redfern (The Collins Group), Robert Stanley, Steve Quayle, Jim Wilhelmsen and thousands of Southern Baptist preachers.

5. ANTI-NUCLEAR WAR ACTIVISTS (Encounters at Nuclear Silo Sites)

Robert Hastings, Robert Salas

6. HUMAN HOAX OR PSYOPS

Melinda Leslie, Christian Lambright

7. THE RETURN OF THE ANNUNAKI

Mike Heiser, Marshall Klarfeld, Michael Telliger

8. THE WATCHERS

Glenn Kimball, Ken Johnson

9. DJINN

Ann Druffel, Rosemary Ellen Guiley

10. TIME TRAVELERS

11. MYSTERIOUS TRICKSTERS, MANIFESTED ARCHITYPES, PARANORMAL CHAMELEONS

Thomas Bullard, John Greer, George Hanson, Chris O'Brian, Jacques Vallee

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I realize that 911 is merely used as an example, not the focus of your post. However, just consider this before you refuse to even consider so-called conspiracies about it. How likely is it that after total devastation of both towers, that authorities would just happen to find one of the terrorist's passports (not burned) laying on the sidewalk? How likely is it that by the next day the authorities would have a total portfolio of all the men that supposedly did this terrorist act? Since over 1500 architects have signed a petition saying that there is no way that a burning jet could have caused the collapse of both towers, don't you think their professional viewpoint has any significance? OK, enough on that.

Secondly, you seem to be appalled by outlandish theories. But we are dealing with an outlandish phenomena. What makes you assume that the outlandish theories are automatically wrong, whereas more mundane theories are more acceptable? At one time, Science did not accept that rocks could fall from the sky. The very thought was outlandish, yet farmers and peasants continued to report it to authorities. They were, of course, referring to meteorites. But the cosmology of the day could not accept such things. Eventually, these outlandish observations changed our entire view of the cosmos. We no longer lived on a flat earth with a dome of blue above us, through which light appeared through millions of tiny holes in the dome. Who are you to determine what is outlandish?

This does not mean that I personally believe every theory and story that comes along. I leave that to Alfred Webre and the Exopolitics gang. But I do have a very large space reserved for peoples' experiences and theories. If you are going to simply say "Oh, that is total rubbish" and refuse to even consider a theory, then you are not much different than the Elite who once considered rocks that fall from the sky to be rubbish.

To answer your one part, no. I don't care if 50,000 "experts" say its impossible or unlikely. Again, look at the other examples I've stated about other "experts" saying something is impossible (crop circles) and yet it turns out its not only possible it's two guys with a plank of wood & rope. But yet, these "experts" were willing to put their life on the line saying that it's impossible to hoax. Then they go on to give 1000 different examples of why it couldn't have possibly be done by man. And yet it was.

Planes crashed into the building. Jets actually. With massive amounts of JP5 jet fuel on them. Both towers crumbled.

Maybe the pilots of the two jets were actually aliens. You know, the ones hiding on the dark side of the moon in their secret base?