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Riot Day in Ferguson, Missouri
- Thread starter Charlie Prime
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Charlie Prime
Paranormal Adept
There is nothing aggressive about equity in and of itself.
That's not what you are talking about however. You advocate imposing what you call "equity" by using violence to take property from some people, and give it to other people.
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Thanks, Constance, for your reason. I don't see where I ever suggested anyone have their property taken away. People either feel the need to give to create an equal space or we perpetuate the class structure that sees no real redistribution of wealth through taxation, that includes taxing industry so they could at least support the communities they devoured.
Equity is about sharing privilege plain and simple.
Manx, I agree it's a hard, long slog, but last I checked in North America: women have the vote and can't be raped legally by their husbands anymore, slavery is outlawed as are belonging to criminal gangs, the DSM no longer includes non-hetero orientations as a mental disease, the definition of personhood has expanded to include people born with all manner of learning disabilities and not all states and Canada have abandoned the death penalty. What I see is a real trajectory of progress.
We define hate crimes, reject online bullying & pedophilia. We claim human rights and create truth and reconciliation commissions to deal with national sins of the past. These are the signs of a society consistently working towards equity and one that celebrates diversity.
When John Cage was asked, "Are things getting better or getting worse?" He replied, "Things are getting better. It's just happening so slowly you can't notice."
I see resignation & surrender as non-options. Hope is best served when you share your best ideas and put them into action.
Equity is about sharing privilege plain and simple.
Manx, I agree it's a hard, long slog, but last I checked in North America: women have the vote and can't be raped legally by their husbands anymore, slavery is outlawed as are belonging to criminal gangs, the DSM no longer includes non-hetero orientations as a mental disease, the definition of personhood has expanded to include people born with all manner of learning disabilities and not all states and Canada have abandoned the death penalty. What I see is a real trajectory of progress.
We define hate crimes, reject online bullying & pedophilia. We claim human rights and create truth and reconciliation commissions to deal with national sins of the past. These are the signs of a society consistently working towards equity and one that celebrates diversity.
When John Cage was asked, "Are things getting better or getting worse?" He replied, "Things are getting better. It's just happening so slowly you can't notice."
I see resignation & surrender as non-options. Hope is best served when you share your best ideas and put them into action.
Industries do not devour communities, they create them, they create towns cities and populate whole geographical regions, when those supporting industries die, so do the areas.
Most of the time the industries dont die, they are superceeded by more competitive leaner societies, whose communities will work for less wages because they go further, where raw materials are cheaper, and logistics cheaper, there whole system is leaner.
There are no taxes without industrie, as there are no jobs, there are no public sector jobs if theres no taxes.
synopsis, stay competitive or shit happens.
Most of the time the industries dont die, they are superceeded by more competitive leaner societies, whose communities will work for less wages because they go further, where raw materials are cheaper, and logistics cheaper, there whole system is leaner.
There are no taxes without industrie, as there are no jobs, there are no public sector jobs if theres no taxes.
synopsis, stay competitive or shit happens.
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smcder
Guest
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Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
not entirely true. the history of mining is one of supplying morgues as communities. sure they built the pit for men to use "widowmakers" to drill cores for, inhaling dust that reduced their life expectancy to their mid-30's - not much different than men who raked hot ore in England to make copper and lead. these companies never paid dimes to the widows, leaving women and children dependent on the community. they never paid taxes back into the community beyond the price due for the building they owned. no profits went to the community, no money to develop schools, sidewalks or roads. they just took the profit back to wall street and the shareholders. nowadays when industry can find cheap labour it abandons its communities leaving soup kitchens in their wake. yes industries give jobs to people and after they chew on people and the land they move on leaving rubble, pain and misery behind. they don't create the city - they create opportunities for labour. this process is one of human exploitation. i see those resources of people and land being totally devoured.
people make cities and then die in them.
You always seem to have your window only half open burnt, take the mining example, mining has created more people than it ever killed, mining has nourished communities in whole regions for decade upon decade, both the mine owners and the workers have paid their taxes,
those taxes have paid for infrastructure and public services, the kind that employ you, a tough dirty dangerous job, carried out by men who knew the risk, but valued the security of their well paid work.
But god forbid anyone making a few bob out of a business.
those taxes have paid for infrastructure and public services, the kind that employ you, a tough dirty dangerous job, carried out by men who knew the risk, but valued the security of their well paid work.
But god forbid anyone making a few bob out of a business.
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Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
well i like that analogy as a descriptor for its poignancy and humour, but i could easily redirect that one at you. what you are saying about infrastructure development is simply not the history of this industry at all. this movie was a real eye-opener for me, especially listening to the mayor of Sudbury, Canada's mining capital, talking about going hat in hand to the big boss to beg for the monies owed to them by law and they never comply.
i think i presented this discussion on the climate change pages somewhere...
The Cannon - News + Views » Local » The Hole Story Reveals History about Mining in Canada
it's not about making money, it's about making money responsibly that helps communities and doesn't abandon them. those practices do not take full account into the greater expenses such as land clean up, cancer rates, poisoning of the water table etc. and it's not a few bob - these are the histories of billionaire families as you know. let's not undersell the corporate gods or their intentions. people and communities matter little to most of those money-laundering fronts for shareholders.
i think i presented this discussion on the climate change pages somewhere...
The Cannon - News + Views » Local » The Hole Story Reveals History about Mining in Canada
it's not about making money, it's about making money responsibly that helps communities and doesn't abandon them. those practices do not take full account into the greater expenses such as land clean up, cancer rates, poisoning of the water table etc. and it's not a few bob - these are the histories of billionaire families as you know. let's not undersell the corporate gods or their intentions. people and communities matter little to most of those money-laundering fronts for shareholders.
Its not upto business to support un-competitive communities, business's are not charities, a community thrives, it becomes un-competitive, it demands to much reward, and in the end kills itself, as its business's die or move to a cheaper demographic, and the process repeats itself..
One region is booming another is bust, the breakdown of society is due in the main part to the now transient lifestyles of modern people, following the work following the money, what you call multi-cultural, thats the reason for dying social cohesion.
One region is booming another is bust, the breakdown of society is due in the main part to the now transient lifestyles of modern people, following the work following the money, what you call multi-cultural, thats the reason for dying social cohesion.
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Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Well you can call this anarchist or collectivist thinking but when the agent that is making money off of the backs of the community is separated from the community then it can only exploit. What it had built is not a community but a surrogate space that mimics community. There was never any social cohesion in that agency, so let's not go blaming multiculturalism when the facts of the class structure and eternal serfdom are the real truths of power and corporate structure.
Socially cohesive communities give birth to responsible work and industry where their profits are returned to the workers, not a third party agent outside the community. Think credit union and not Coca Cola.
Socially cohesive communities give birth to responsible work and industry where their profits are returned to the workers, not a third party agent outside the community. Think credit union and not Coca Cola.
Mining has always been an important part of mankinds development on this planet.
But it is one of those activitys that if it goes wrong, goes badly wong
Ok Tedi environmental disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Ok Tedi environmental disaster caused grave harm to the environment along 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) of the Ok Tedi River and the Fly River in the Western Province of Papua New Guinea between about 1984 and 2013. The lives of 50,000 people have been disrupted. One of the worst environmental disasters caused by humans, it is a consequence of the discharge of about two billion tons of untreated mining waste into the Ok Tedi from the Ok Tedi Mine, an open pit mine in the Western Province of Papua New Guinea.
In 1999, BHP reported that 90 million tons of mine waste was annually discharged into the river for more than ten years and destroyed downstream villages, agriculture and fisheries. Mine wastes were deposited along 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) of the Ok Tedi and the Fly River below its confluence with the Ok Tedi, and over an area of 100 square kilometres (39 sq mi). BHP's CEO, Paul Anderson, said that the Ok Tedi Mine was "not compatible with our environmental values and the company should never have become involved."[1] As of 2006, mine operators continued to discharge 80 million tons of tailings, overburden and mine-induced erosion into the river system each year. About 1,588 square kilometres (613 sq mi) of forest has died or is under stress. As many as 3,000 square kilometres (1,200 sq mi) may eventually be harmed, an area equal to the U.S. state of Rhode Island or the Danish island of Funen.[2]
Following heavy rainfall, mine tailings are swept into the surrounding rain forest, swamps and creeks, and have left behind 30 square kilometers of dead forest. Thick gray sludge from the mine is visible throughout the Fly River system, although its effects downriver are not as severe.[3] Chemicals from the tailings killed or contaminated fish, although they are still eaten by the people of the surrounding villages. However, fish counts decrease closer to the mine. The massive amount of mine-derived waste dumped into the river exceeded its carrying capacity. This dumping resulted in the river bed being raised 10 m, causing a relatively deep and slow river to become shallower and develop rapids, thereby disrupting indigenous transportation routes.[4] Flooding, caused by the raised riverbed, left a thick layer of contaminated mud on the flood plain among plantations of taro, bananas and sago palm that are the staples of the local diet. About 1300 square kilometers were damaged in this way.
But it is one of those activitys that if it goes wrong, goes badly wong
Ok Tedi environmental disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Ok Tedi environmental disaster caused grave harm to the environment along 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) of the Ok Tedi River and the Fly River in the Western Province of Papua New Guinea between about 1984 and 2013. The lives of 50,000 people have been disrupted. One of the worst environmental disasters caused by humans, it is a consequence of the discharge of about two billion tons of untreated mining waste into the Ok Tedi from the Ok Tedi Mine, an open pit mine in the Western Province of Papua New Guinea.
In 1999, BHP reported that 90 million tons of mine waste was annually discharged into the river for more than ten years and destroyed downstream villages, agriculture and fisheries. Mine wastes were deposited along 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) of the Ok Tedi and the Fly River below its confluence with the Ok Tedi, and over an area of 100 square kilometres (39 sq mi). BHP's CEO, Paul Anderson, said that the Ok Tedi Mine was "not compatible with our environmental values and the company should never have become involved."[1] As of 2006, mine operators continued to discharge 80 million tons of tailings, overburden and mine-induced erosion into the river system each year. About 1,588 square kilometres (613 sq mi) of forest has died or is under stress. As many as 3,000 square kilometres (1,200 sq mi) may eventually be harmed, an area equal to the U.S. state of Rhode Island or the Danish island of Funen.[2]
Following heavy rainfall, mine tailings are swept into the surrounding rain forest, swamps and creeks, and have left behind 30 square kilometers of dead forest. Thick gray sludge from the mine is visible throughout the Fly River system, although its effects downriver are not as severe.[3] Chemicals from the tailings killed or contaminated fish, although they are still eaten by the people of the surrounding villages. However, fish counts decrease closer to the mine. The massive amount of mine-derived waste dumped into the river exceeded its carrying capacity. This dumping resulted in the river bed being raised 10 m, causing a relatively deep and slow river to become shallower and develop rapids, thereby disrupting indigenous transportation routes.[4] Flooding, caused by the raised riverbed, left a thick layer of contaminated mud on the flood plain among plantations of taro, bananas and sago palm that are the staples of the local diet. About 1300 square kilometers were damaged in this way.
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pixelsmith
Guest
All humans should die right Mike and Tyger? That would make you both happy I bet.
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As with many things its a double edged sword
For example, the boom has increased employment by about 3 per cent but the expected net effect through to 2025 is negligible and matched by population growth
A key concern regarding mining booms is that they can sometimes result in deindustrialisation -- the so-called "Dutch disease" -- where a resource boom results in a much stronger currency and erodes the competitiveness of other export industries
Australia benefited greatly from a once-in-a-lifetime mining boom but as its effects begin to ease Australian households and businesses will be forced to tolerate softer income growth than they have become accustomed to
The mining boom's final days may come quicker than expected | Business Spectator
QLD mining ghost towns predicted as workers on the move | Mining Australia
For example, the boom has increased employment by about 3 per cent but the expected net effect through to 2025 is negligible and matched by population growth
A key concern regarding mining booms is that they can sometimes result in deindustrialisation -- the so-called "Dutch disease" -- where a resource boom results in a much stronger currency and erodes the competitiveness of other export industries
Australia benefited greatly from a once-in-a-lifetime mining boom but as its effects begin to ease Australian households and businesses will be forced to tolerate softer income growth than they have become accustomed to
The mining boom's final days may come quicker than expected | Business Spectator
QLD mining ghost towns predicted as workers on the move | Mining Australia
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pixelsmith
Guest
Mining and coal got you to where you are sitting today. Embrace both.
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pixelsmith
Guest
lol sustainable. Good one.
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pixelsmith
Guest
Your computer is not sustainable nor is your bicycle car or home.
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pixelsmith
Guest
Now try and steer this thread back on track.
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