September 6, 2015 — Walter Bosley with Goggs Mackay

[Walter Bosley]

I did not know about the other investigator on the Paulides material. I will check out that review back-and-forth.

Regardless of whatever question as to the value or theatrics of what he does with the 411 material, speaking as a former FBI operational specialist and as a former Special Agent of AFOSI and as a former counterterrorist field guy, and as a reserve (inactive) USAF officer, I stand by my assessment of what he describes was the reaction the Parks Service displayed to his requests. If the way he described, I don't care a dog turd about the National Parks tourist campaign needs, if they have a problem like this and an investigator is willing to put the man hours into working it and has made professional requests for information (yes also as an author/investigative journalist), their proper response is "Yes, Citizen Investigator Journalist, we at your service, how can we help? Here's what we can give, here's what we can't. We aplogize for any inconvenience." I'm telling you, any agent who responded to Paulides the way he describes (assuming it's true) would be having a less than pleasant discussion with his supervisor -- regardless of their opinion of Paulides' work. Now I must admit, some of the jackoffs recruited into LE since 9/11 may be changing the game, but MOST of these guys would respond professionally and courteously even when stonewalling. That is my experience with that world.

Whether Paulides' work is valuable curiosity or useless hype, I'm gonna say the truth would be at least somewhere in the middle of that spectrum. I would like to see what other investigators who have worked say on the matter, of course. I didn't know others were, so maybe my mind will be changed. At present, I still say it's among the top three most interesting issues in the alternative research field, until I'm convinced otherwise and that is not impossible.

Are there books or interviews?

Also, in fairness, I don't recall Paulides himself ever proposing any answer much less saying it was a paranormal issue. That is what other people bring into the discussion. Unless I missed something.

 

[Wade]

Also, in fairness, I don't recall Paulides himself ever proposing any answer much less saying it was a paranormal issue. That is what other people bring into the discussion. Unless I missed something.

Yeah initially he held steadfast against this I think I heard him loosen up a bit but regardless of that he has gotten accused of being coy for not naming a bogeyman when he took great pains to suggest it wasn't a one size fits all situation,so he can't win either way.

 

[Wade]

If I recall correctly The aforementioned Firefighter went missing in an called Devils Canyon I believe, another aspect David has brought up before, the number of times devil or hell comes up in missing people's reports. but the Sespe does have its share of devil this or devil that so this may be a coincidence,but it still led me to think there may be something abnormal about these areas as far as magnetic abnormalities that could screw with a person's thinking.

And now I find this.

Arcadia firefighter had ecstasy, alcohol in system when he died

 

[Walter Bosley]

I went and read some of the negative reviews. The one guy presents a hellfire assault on the credibility. Holy crap! lol
Maybe I'm wrong. I'll take these review/rebuttals into consideration and see if my impression changes.

 

[Burnt State]

If I recall correctly The aforementioned Firefighter went missing in an called Devils Canyon I believe, another aspect David has brought up before, the number of times devil or hell comes up in missing people's reports. but the Sespe does have its share of devil this or devil that so this may be a coincidence,but it still led me to think there may be something abnormal about these areas as far as magnetic abnormalities that could screw with a person's thinking.

And now I find this.

Arcadia firefighter had ecstasy, alcohol in system when he died

People will do strange things in unfamiliar territory or in altered states of mind. Trying to make that fact into a paranormal event is an embellishment of reality at best. Sometimes the only mystery is the unfathomable depths of the human mind. Places that reference the devil are dangerous, treacherous environments and it's not a wonder more people die there or go missing. That's why they're named after the devil.

 

[Spectre73]

Wow - I wake up and find a smashing debate on Paulides has taken place. Great points across the board once again!

I said earlier I found the cases eerie , and I have enjoyed listening to Paulides, but perhaps the eeriness is the sell. And I must admit I haven't read the books, only listened to him on podcasts.

I would be interesting to hear another investigator who has looked at these cases .

This is why I listen to the paracast, I'm interested in truth and this is the best place to cut the Bull

 

[Ron Away]

Wow - I wake up and find a smashing debate on Paulides has taken place. Great points across the board once again!

I said earlier I found the cases eerie , and I have enjoyed listening to Paulides, but perhaps the eeriness is the sell. And I must admit I haven't read the books, only listened to him on podcasts.

I would be interesting to hear another investigator who has looked at these cases .

This is why I listen to the paracast, I'm interested in truth and this is the best place to cut the Bull

When I first heard Paulides a couple of years ago I was intrigued and thought he just might be onto something.However,as the numbers increase well beyond 411 I feel he may be trying too hard to make things fit into his parameters.I must reiterate that I've not read any of the books so I in no way claim to have debunked his work.It's just that after having listened to a half dozen or so of his interviews I'm far from convinced.And the latest part with missing persons from towns and cities is a hell of a reach I feel.

 

[Walter Bosley]

As a professionally experienced investigator, my choice would be a long talk with him on his own work, off the record. I'm not saying that would ever happen, I'm saying that's a general preference of mine. It's similar to when people ask my opinion on some cases I will reserve judgment because I have not personally seen whatever case file there is, i.e. the whole Richard Doty thing. I don't pass any judgment on Doty because I never met the man and I never saw the ops/case file on the Bennewitz issue so I couldn't possibly know enough to pass judgment (...which means neither can anyone in the UFO community who hasn't seen the file...).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to when Paulides takes his work to the next level and does propose his theories. It may never happen, but I'll be interested if he does. As I said, because of a geographical element of resonance, I'm curious.

 

[The Darkroom]

It's similar to when people ask my opinion on some cases I will reserve judgment because I have not personally seen whatever case file there is, i.e. the whole Richard Doty thing. I don't pass any judgment on Doty because I never met the man and I never saw the ops/case file on the Bennewitz issue so I couldn't possibly know enough to pass judgment (...which means neither can anyone in the UFO community who hasn't seen the file...).

I think Greg (and others?) learned that Doty was at least "demoted" [soon?] after the Bennewitz case? Wasn't he sent away to Germany to do some menial work tasks, and so this was a kind of punishment to get him to leave the military or at least do no more OSI operations work?

 

[Walter Bosley]

I think Greg (and others?) learned that Doty was at least "demoted" [soon?] after the Bennewitz case? Wasn't he sent away to Germany to do some menial work tasks, and so this was a kind of punishment to get him to leave the military or at least do no more OSI operations work?

I personally don't know what the fallout was. I have said he was once brought up to me as a cautionary tale. My understanding is that he had my same specialty which means to me that Germany may not have been the 'punishment' some think it was, especially if we were all to read the case file and perhaps learn something that no journalist nor documentary filmmaker has ever dug out, i.e. that Doty wasn't actually the rotten guy he's made out to be. Consider that the OSI displeasure might have been the nature of the publicity not necessarily what actually happened with Bennewitz at the hands of Doty. It is possible, from my former OSI perspective, that another agency or a different OSI section could have been the ones behind any potential mishandling of Bennewitz (Can ya hear my foot stomping?).None of us here actually know all the details and, with all due respect to my friend Greg (who is honest) and the makers of 'Mirage Men' and others who have written about the issue, neither does anyone in the UFO community.

I, for one, am over any patience or empathy with people in the UFO community bearing a hate fetish for AFOSI and its agents, past or present. My position lately has been "Yeah, damn right I was a Special Agent with the AFOSI. Get over it and kiss my !@#." That OSI is some big bad bogeyman keeping the truth about ET from the good boys and girls has become stale and frazzled around the edges. Think about it: our loving ET space angels are so advanced beyond our lowly station and care so much about us -- yet human agents of a military branch investigative agency stand between the good congregation of believers and these amazing beings?? If THEY wanted all the people to know about them, they would simply reveal themselves. I've considered all the supposed reasons why They haven't revealed themselves and I've decided it's hogwash. I think They don't want to reveal themselves to the masses for their own reasons but when They do, it'll happen. Bottom line: The demanding attitude is getting the cause nowhere and the blaming of OSI etc has become flaky. I reiterate: I'm not saying They don't exist, I'm saying their disclosure is primarily in their hands, not the USG nor OSI.
I'm also not saying Bennewitz wasn't tragic, I'm saying none of us here really know the full actual details.

There's a rant thread for you

 

[Randall]

... The demanding attitude is getting the cause nowhere and the blaming of OSI etc has become flaky. I reiterate: I'm not saying They don't exist, I'm saying their disclosure is primarily in their hands, not the USG nor OSI.
I'm also not saying Bennewitz wasn't tragic, I'm saying none of us here really know the full actual details ... There's a rant thread for you

Gotta love a good rant! I tend to agree that demands for disclosure aren't likely to get any positive results. As the same time, there have to be people on the inside who know a lot more than the general public. What do you make of movements like the Coalition for Freedom of Information that has tried the diplomatic approach through government channels?

 

[The Darkroom]

You mention Mirage Men [MM], which I'm certain you know well. You were in it too.

I found it very weird and disconcerting about Doty when they MM asserted that Doty emailed that UFO news group under multiple names [creating faked chatter] asserting the Project Serpo info he or "faked they" were sending this UFO newsgroup "leader guy" was true and really happened. The UFO newsgroup guy said it was the most amazing story he ever read, so he said it had to be real and true. Meaning, Doty's talent was too good to be limited to just Doty doing it. This was after Mirage Men even proved Doty's own IP address was used to send all these Serpo emails under multiple names, and this was a decade or more after Doty was retired out of the AF.

Assuming this is true, then this means Doty has been driven somewhat crazy himself or is a true believer over this whole matter of Serpo and ET UFO's. Why would he fabricate such "talented writing" about Project Serpo under multiple fake names with such elaborate hoaxing to a UFO Newsgroup decades later? I read somewhere Doty claims to have consulted for at least one popular alien episode of the X-Files too, so maybe he's "a want to be" part of the UFO entertainment industry too?

Norio Hayakawa is certainly a very strong vocal opponent of Doty.

 

[Walter Bosley]

I doubt Doty is crazy. And I worked in national security after I got out of AFOSI, thus certainly he could have/still be.

I'm personally not interested in the spreading of disinfo to UFO enthusiasts nor was I involved in it. I've never been opposed to letting people think that a classified aircraft they saw was an ET craft, if that helps maintain the aircraft's cover. But I've never been involved with putting the idea out there and neither have I said the air force did. I have indeed said I knew that other OSI guys certainly thought people thinking classified craft were ET UFOs was very helpful to protecting such technology. I said as much in Mirage Men. The extent of disinfo spreading I would have been involved with was directed at hostile foreign targets, i.e. intel agencies. They aren't US citizens, so screw them (which was my job).

I've been lumped in with disinfo suspects by paranoiacs who don't know me personally. Oh well, I laugh them off

Regarding Doty, I'd like to meet him and talk about this stuff but I would not be able to say a word about it to anyone, I'm certain. But after what I've written over the years, there's probably a standing order 'No one talks to Bosley -- he's gone native!' lol

 

[The Darkroom]

If it's true that Hynek gave Bennewitz the computer, then that Op was way bigger than Doty. Also, if it's true there were people living across the street from Bennewitz to spy on him, play mind games, etc., then I don't buy into the idea that Doty was "master control" or the master mind directing everything behind it. He's just the visible known fall guy to take "the heat". He's been a state[?] police officer with New Mexico, so I'm sure you could find him and talk to him someday. With your common backgrounds and similar interests I think he would be very interested to talk with you someday. I hope you can manage it somehow. Heck, even Skype with camera would allow to get "a read" on the validity of the conversation if that is the only option.

I'm with you about not judging Doty too much about his responsibility of harming Bennewitz, as I think there are many other players that probably did far more harm to Bennewitz than Doty could ever do personally, imo.