Stalking the Herd-March 30, 2014

[nameless]

I am also intrigued by the follow up book. it shows the amount of information that was gathered and the effort put in that warrants it.

Chris has got to be the authority, the go to guy in this field now. No pun intended. That's right LMC I said that shit . Chris O'brien is Thee Cattle Mutilation Expert.

 

[Jimi H.]

1)

The story broke as I finished the last chapter and sent it in. Yes, the surfing swedish cows have a mundane explanation—a high % of "mutilation reports" (like w/ UFO reports) can be explained but there is left a sizable % that cannot be explained. So what's your point?

You brought up the Scandinavian cows in the show, it didn't sound like you knew it was solved. I pointed you to a Danish source that explains it.

When was the last time you heard of cattle mutilation reports washing up on an ocean beach?

Never. But my point was that if something like that does happen in a place like Scandinavia, it wouldn't be seen, and wasn't seen, as a 'mutilation' case. Rather, it would be seen as dead cows being dropped for some reason, with removed earmarks. So, it would be seen as an isolated incident committed by some farmer or sailor, it wouldn't be tied to other cases about cattle mutilation. While, if it had happened in the US, I'm sure that many would have interpreted and described it in a more 'paranormal'/mysterious sense. Justified or not, that's not for me to say.

So, again, what's your point? I was the first to realize that this is a Christian country mystery and David agrees that this may provide us w/ a possible clue that may link aspects of the mystery w/collective spiritual belief in the West. I go into this in the book...
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I was basically just elaborating, and I showed that you were correct, there is a cultural difference, and I exemplified that by saying that I wasn't aware if anyone in Scandinavia had even considered the cow story to be mysterious, to begin with.

I haven't read the book so I only responded to what you guys said in the show.

2)
If there aren't so many comments yet, I don't think it's for lack of interest, but more because you guys spoke about many things, and about all the different kinds of cases you had investigated. Typically when threads get hot from the get-go, it's when there's disagreement about stated facts or opinions. And you guys didn't say you had definitively solved some paranormal or otherwise mystery, you gave more of an insight into a variety of cases and possible explanations, both natural or more clandestine.

 

[Wade]

1)

....If there aren't so many comments, I don't think it's for lack of interest, but more because you guys spoke about many things, and about all the different kinds of cases you had investigated. Typically when threads get long, it's when there's disagreement about stated facts or opinions. And you guys didn't say you had definitively solved some paranormal or otherwise mystery, you gave more of an insight into a variety of cases and possible explanations, both natural or more clandestine.

I think that's a very sound explaination. To anyone that's familiar with your work Chris I don't think there was much mentioned on the show that hasn't already been discussed. The main point of your work is that there are likely a handfull of reasons behind the mute mystery and if there is any controversy involved it seems it would be professed by people like LMH who insist it's ET....all the way down... The fact that "non existent" secret government programs or even the occasional occultist group are behind some of these attacks would come as no surprise to most reasonable people that read the papers.

Being that I am (fairly) familiar with your work Chris There was only two things that i grabbed onto and that i mentioned earlier. I never considered the observation David made in the show about the apparent slightly advanced tech that was/is being used in these procedures....even if it's straightforward cutting given the fact that its consisently able to be pulled off without much in the way of outside notice or interference over the past makes me think that there may have been more involved than a bunch of commandos running all over the place, perhaps even in the earliest days there was stealth tech being used.


The the other thing that surprised me was that not being familiar with David's work I thought he was just a straightforward, cattle mute guy even though you've mentioned many times he was your mentor and inspiration for many of your ideas and for some reason it never occurred to me that he is closer to a full blown fortean, although he might take issue with that designation. And yes, I probably should have been more hip, given his forward in your StT book but I was a relative newbie at that time and didn't make the connection.

 

[Bob Watson]

Hmm..back to the book. .I may have missed something. .

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[Burnt State]

it seems to me that the shows that have had historically the most commentary have been either highly contentious, completely outlandish and/or so off the beaten path of plausibility that the critical and skeptical ire of the Forum Beast Collective heaves itself out of the hoary pit it slithers in to spew its frothy vinaigrette all over these digital pages in utter disdain and disbelief.

shows like this one which are measured, thoughtful, believable, that are the result of actual credible research, seem to make people go, oh, alright, looks good…and it's left at that. personally there were a number of really important, critical points brought out that have direct bearing on both the long time pursuit of the paranormal puzzle, ufology, investigative research and how we can create ideas of legacy in this field were all present and deserving of rich commentary. i'm creating images right now as i've got a lot to blab about. i have a lot of other questions concerning this mystery that seems to straddle both human and surreal activity, which are probably entirely unrelated in their actions.

the discussion on attendant phenomenon alone, or the incredible toll on the lives of researchers were all worth much further discussion…

to be contd.

 

[Wade]

Hmm..back to the book. .I may have missed something. .

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

I waiting to see if Chris ever mentions how the unfortunate animals are neutralized an there seems to be no smoking guns (chemical agents)

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

I waiting to see if Chris ever mentions how the unfortunate animals are neutralized an there seems to be no smoking guns (chemical agents)

There have been cases where the animal was discovered in time to do a chemical work up. Ketamine and other tranquilizers have been detected, but most of the time no one can figure out how or why the animal died, or was put down in the first place, etc.

 

[Wade]

Yes, you did mention Ketamine in the last episode but I forgot the context it was used and I didn't follow up or look up what that was. In my head I was thinking that ketamine was a naturally released agent like histamine

 

[Burnt State]

There have been cases where the animal was discovered in time to do a chemical work up. Ketamine and other tranquilizers have been detected, but most of the time no one can figure out how or why the animal died, or was put down in the first place, etc.

Ok hold up, are you saying that in real mute cases cause of death has not been established? Out of curiosity how often are actual autopsies carried out, by whom and what are the usual results? I would be interested in knowing whether or not mutilations take place after death or before. I woud've thought that the ketamine tranquilizer followed by an anal coring, organ removal and what have you, would pretty much leave limited life span immediately, no?

 

[Constance]

(No) pun intended? It was the same after the Valdez interview. I mean there was some really important if not amazing statements in that interview that really put a crack in the frosty glass of the alien CMH of LMC (I can't actually use hypothesis with her as it's more a religion now) . I have yet to read the book but on the strength of the interview and the reviews on the threads I would say Chris proceeds to shatter the glass finally and the true importance of this endeavour hopefully will hit home in time. The number of responses does not equal popularity of an interview but that's entertainment in some eyes.

I agree with nameless and want to suggest that more members of the Paracast Forum will likely be responding after they've had a chance to read the book. NOTE to Chris: I'm still waiting for the bound copy you were going to send me. I've only seen half of the book, in manuscript, including the concluding chapter, but I can speak to its excellence and significance. The mainstream media are not going to give it the attention it deserves, just as they've generally suppressed information and inquiry concerning the ongoing phenomenon. Chris's research and reporting in the last chapter on prions and the ominous threats they represent to the food supply and future health of the planet's population (including the animals) is mind-blowing. This issue enormously complicates the question of the degree to which a perhaps considerable percentage of the mutilations (in wildlife as well as cattle) might be the result of human agencies at work in biological research (and disguising their efforts and concern by representing their incursions into the fields as ufos). Of course that also worked well to help suppress widespread media attention to the cattle mutilation phenomenon, tainting it by association with ufology and the paranormal. I'm in no doubt, however, that a non-human agency has also been involved in cattle mutilations; the instance I asked about in the questions thread for the interview (a day or two after that thread was closed) is inexplicable in terms of human agency.

 

[Constance]

Ok hold up, are you saying that in real mute cases cause of death has not been established? Out of curiosity how often are actual autopsies carried out, by whom and what are the usual results? I would be interested in knowing whether or not mutilations take place after death or before. I woud've thought that the ketamine tranquilizer followed by an anal coring, organ removal and what have you, would pretty much leave limited life span immediately, no?

Excellent questions. I remember reading maybe ten years ago about the analyses performed on numerous mutes by a biologist or medical scientist whose name I've forgotten (John Something) who found evidence that the cattle whose carcasses he studied had been anesthetized by some chemical or chemicals. Can you tell us more about that Chris?

 

[Burnt State]

I'm in no doubt, however, that a non-human agency has also been involved in cattle mutilations;

What for you are the indicators of a non-human agency - are there some specific narratives like the surreal sudden cattle evisceration or the attendant phenomenon that indicate non-human agents? I'd be interested to hear what you feel are the paranormal qualities of Cattle Mutilation.

 

[Constance]

Various elements of what is left of the animal (all blood absent from the carcass in numerous cases, for example), the unaccountable bleaching (within hours) of the bones in the face in the early Snippy case, the laserlike coring of reproductive organs, and other recurring elements seem to me to suggest nonhuman activity. The case that for me seems completely inexplicable as humanly engineered is one described in Chris's new book in which both the brain and organs from the gut of the animal were found to be missing without there being any incisions in the animal that could have permitted the removal of these organs.

Despite the efforts of researchers like Chris and David who have gone to the sites of cattle mutilations to record the available data, and the efforts of some sheriffs and veterinary specialists who have also recorded many details at the scene, I would bet that too often all of the physical information potentially available in and on the carcass is likely to have been missed, unsampled, and thus inadequately assessed by scientists -- the result of having to examine these carcasses out in the fields where they lay decomposing. Again I blame the failure of the media to fully inform the public about what was being discovered at these sites, and behind the media the PTB. I think if this phenomenon had been sufficiently described to the public as a whole (including various scientific specialists employed in state and federal agencies concerned with public health and a multidisciplinary variety of academics), there would have been intense pressure to investigate and report on it publicly. We are, as always, victims of the economic and political interests that manage the flow of information in our society. Our consensual reality is by and large a lie.

 

[Burnt State]

Various elements of what is left of the animal (all blood absent from the carcass in numerous cases, for example), the unaccountable bleaching (within hours) of the bones in the face in the early Snippy case, the laserlike coring of reproductive organs, and other recurring elements seem to me to suggest nonhuman activity. The case that for me seems completely inexplicable as humanly engineered is one described in Chris's new book in which both the brain and organs from the gut of the animal were found to be missing without there being any incisions in the animal that could have permitted the removal of these organs.

In listening to Chris on DMR he was pretty categorical about the draining of blood to be a fallacy and just oft repeated inaccuracy. The bleaching of snippy sounds very descriptive. I wonder what else might account for this appearance or was it just its appearance? I think the laser like discussion is somewhat debatable though Chris highlights some other surgical aspects and the cases involving very complicated and strange internal organ removal are really quite weird, but are these things beyond our science?

For me it's the attendant phenomenon I find really weird.

I think if this phenomenon had been sufficiently described to the public as a whole (including various scientific specialists employed in state and federal agencies concerned with public health and a multidisciplinary variety of academics), there would have been intense pressure to investigate and report on it publicly. We are, as always, victims of the economic and political interests that manage the flow of information in our society. Our consensual reality is by and large a lie.

Full marks there. I agree on all points with this analysis. When you look at how minimalist television information is, not to mention the manipulative inaccuracies of the media in general, you can appreciate how easy it is to bamboozle us general joe q. public types.

 

[Constance]

In listening to Chris on DMR he was pretty categorical about the draining of blood to be a fallacy and just oft repeated inaccuracy. The bleaching of snippy sounds very descriptive. I wonder what else might account for this appearance or was it just its appearance? I think the laser like discussion is somewhat debatable though Chris highlights some other surgical aspects and the cases involving very complicated and strange internal organ removal are really quite weird, but are these things beyond our science?

Re the bleached out bones of Snippy's face, the witnesses all said that it looked as if that part of the horse had been bleaching out in the desert for a very long time. The head of Snippy is still available to be viewed behind glass somewhere (Chris identifies that location in the new book). I think he's also included a photograph of it in the book. Re the last question you raise, I think the case I described above is most probably "beyond our science" and technology.

 

[Constance]

There are some photographs of Snippy's face, along with other photos from mutilation cases, at this google images link:

snippy the horse - Google Search

 

[Jeff Davis]

Well, I recently finished listening to the show, which I was truthfully waiting to download and listen to in an attempt to keep the "spoiler" factor to a minimum cause I'm in the process of reading the book. After listening to this show, which was truly one of the best I have heard in a long while, I have to state that IMO the spoiler factor is not an issue in the least. So don't let that delay your listening to this episode. In fact, I would state that it might even work the opposite in that due to better understanding where Chris and David are coming from as researchers, both philosophically and speculatively, you get a much better perspective for the incredibly mysterious enormity in expanse that this phenomenon consists of. I can honestly state that this book has completely changed my perspective definitively with respect to the CMP. Due to that change, I now believe that this particular phenomenon may yield what might be the most tangible evidence of the paranormal ever studied. In this one sense, I am completely stunned by much of what this continues to reveal to me internally. Chris and David (BTW Chris, David RULES!, get him back on asap, if for nothing but seamlessly flowing and extremely intelligent conversation's sake, wow!) have spent a lifetime seeking an answer to the myriad of memes and quandaries that this over the top, and seemingly outside the scope of time itself, phenomena represents. For me, the depth and immense width of those considerations have already inspired new and amazing paranormal considerations that I certainly would have never tied into the CMP prior. This show should almost be considered a companion primer, but I have to state that the way that everything came together between excitedly reading the book outright, and listening to the show mid stride while doing so, over the top cool! A perspective game changer and that's about as effective as you can get. Thanks!

 

[Burnt State]

By Coincidence or By Design?
This really is the grand question of paranormal inquiry. Humans, by their nature love to see patterns. That's why if you concentrate on any one single field of inquiry, or focus subject, you'll soon be seeing sychronicities directly connected to your area of study all over the place. We can't help but see patterns, in fact the majority of what we do see is really pre-recorded information, with our brain just giving us internal playback from the memory banks to approximate the reality patterns revolving around us. So archetypes, mandalas in the sky, and memes globing onto each other as David Perkins talked about towards the end of this episode, are all just par for the course. Enter the Meme-Plex of Cattle Mutilations: it's not just about dead cows in the field. If anything there appears to be, much like other paranormal phenomenon, an interdisciplinary set of oddities that are interrelated, as if dead cows in the field hold a key to many mysteries at once. It's always just another picnic at the Skinwalker Ranch isn't it?


As you listen to the progress of this show what soon becomes apparent, in the easy give and take of David and Chris on this topic, is that the layers of meaning are many as they fold back and forth on top of each other like a prion disease. For there is a certain kind of Wile E. Coyote mental terrain that the cattle mute investigator must be prepared to enter at their own peril and so they do. If I was approaching dead cow bodies on a regular basis i think getting your own hazmat suit's not such a bad idea after all.

The destabilization of researchers who investigate the strange and bizarre is its own meme. The endless list the Chris provided on the show of people who have opted out, who have decided to cease and desist all further investigations into dead cows, and even suicided, well I was quite surprised by the answers both Perkins and O’Brien provided to the question of the psychological impact on CM investigators. I think working with dead things is a pretty big deal. But you also have to figure, given the sheer size of cows, that this requires a really even headed mind. Perkins’ description of one's body smelling like dead carcass was enough for me. I scratch my head in wonder - and you choose to do this more than once?! Jeez, you have to be a particular kind of tenacious, mixed with snake venom in your veins, to be able to repeat such gory examinations. It’s all like one of those depressing Lovecraftian tales where the dreaded duty of carefully inspected wretched corpses rotting in the field repeats endlessly like a kind of Sisyphean torture. To be honest I think I’d rather have my liver pecked out every day.

You know, it’s one thing to go out and investigate UFO landing sites and chat with all manner of folk who have had interesting experiences, and all the late night driving down backroads away from friends and family while hunting down the most elusive tale of our times…well it actually sounds pretty glamorous compared to investigating cattle mutilations. While we may respect the tireless nature of the field investigator, the Cattle Mutilation field worker is really in a special class of weird determination all to themselves. And I can see the allure I suppose, because of all the paranormalish mysteries the CMP is one that feels like you can actually get your hands wrapped around something. After all there’s a corpse in the field you can touch, examine, do up the blood work, get down on your hands and knees in the mud to look carefully at that anal coring and clipped hairs. I like the story of Chris filling the vials with a yellow mucous from a cow body, sealing them and shipping them off for testing, only for them to arrive at the lab entirely empty and still sealed. So many decades later, so many researchers having given up, and now not only is there a Stalking the Herd book but this phenomenon even needs to have a follow up text to breakdown and explain the first one!



We know that those who choose to look too deeply at a mystery will soon have the mystery looking back at them. That feedback loop can really unnerve people and I was really taken aback by the impact of investigating this particular paranormal item has taken a very dramatic toll on many a field researcher. I don’t want to walk down the paranoid conspiracist route, but the story of Ted Oliphant not wanting to be ever contacted again about CM after appearing on the Paracast really makes one consider whether or not there has been interference of any kind from an outside agency. Regardless it appears the mystery is still far from solved as each theory is able to be pecked apart by others as both researchers reveal but, still, there appears to be a bit of a clearing in the paranormal woods that has been hacked back by these two. And really, you can only have admiration for anyone who has stuck to the CMP as long as they have.

The thing with Chris’ book, and the many interviews he’s done on Dark Matters Radio, M.U. & The Paracast and I’m sure others, is that it seems to provide some actual tangible results in terms of a very credible set of theories around food source testing. I get little hung up still on the fact that our food sources are in fact routinely examined, as cattle are examined for BSE and so just how mysterious is it all? However on M.U. Chris presented a very credible argument regarding the power of the Beef Lobby in America, and I know that in Canada, our beef was rejected by the European Union not too many years ago, because of the high toxic levels of some strange additives that the EU banned way back when. Our gov’t. refused to disclose to the Canadian public just how high those levels were. But then they still are not pushing the gas industry to remove some of the many carcinogenic additives to fuel that we’re all inhaling during every fill up either so it seems to me, that just like in China where people routinely strip heavy metals out of the world’s computers that are dumped on these impoverished villages where everyone’s getting cancer, that people are expendable, at least certain percentages of us are. We should not be surprised the same thing’s going on the world over, well almost.

I’m very fascinated by cross cultural comparisons, and the background research of other countries and locations of where Cattle Mutilations take place. This does draw us into some interesting speculative possibilities when only Christian countries are experiencing these strange mutilations and that certain breeds are ignored. Some things do appear to add up – but to what? After I finished listening to the discussion around the Memeplex and the teleology of the Gaian imperative to get us off planet, or at least off the couch, i was thinking that it's too bad John Keel's dead as I feel like i need to know where to get my Superspectrum Decoder Ring! Is the trickster really calling us into space or to at least wake up down here and open our eyes?! There's a bit if a litany of doomsday scenarios that Chris provided as a future motivator for why we need to get out off earth and stretch out a bit in the solar system neighbourhood to see what's up. A read through Stalking the Trickster, especially Perkins' interview and the opening and closing two chapters are a worthwhile good think, that helps to flesh out this closed system imperative that Chris talks about when it comes to UFO's, CMP and the role of the trickster at work in our lives.

Chris talked about the need for there to be a lack of tunnel vision amongst researchers, to be open minded and not fixated. There is this repetiion of attendant phenomenon – even Clark talks about poltergeist activity reported following UFO witness events. The story Perkins told of investigating a Cattle Mutilation that was then accompanied by a whole host of harry hominid monsters, little aliens playing in the creek and silent barrel UFO’s riding the waves of water and then air was all quiet a lovely, rich and raucous set of so many different oddities collected together in one place. One wonders is it the geography of the land that shapes people’s experiences or is in the landscape of the mind that produces such perceived experiences on the land?

Finally, an idea i'm really interested in is the question of Legacy or how do we continue and develop this discussion for the future. What are the next threads to be pulled out of this discussion? I thought the idea of a second follow up book is actually a very smart thing to do, as well as some other cross cultural examination and global comparative studies. Proof of human agency needs to be really explored in a deeper way, but it seems, as the one question from another Paracast forum member pointed out, that not all stories from North America and conflicts with the phantom helicopter pilots have been accounted for. I hope that lead pays off and turns into something specific as I find it hard to believe that documentation of human agency has not been more forth coming, but the tales of gunshots really do bring this into an arena of human expendability. These people have no intentions of being caught and will kill if need be. I’m sure such procedures are very fine tuned, perhaps are the third layer behind a corporate, governmental veneer that is simply about managing things. Maybe it's always been that way - propaganda for the masses; just keep them guessing and squabbling amongst themselves.

It would not surprise me in the least that there are in fact all manner of separate food sources on the earth that cater to elite clientele who are living without carcinogens in their diets. The age of Soylent Green is already here. We are experimented on every day with the synthetic additives, antibiotics, growth hormones, steroids etc. placed into foods – we eat plastic; we are plastic. The compromise happened long ago when we surrendered our freedom to the machine, our will to propagandized entertainment and supplanted our true desires with distractions, violence and hatred. It's a good time to become a vegetarian and eat whole foods if you can afford it.

For your reading pleasure re: CJD and BSE…

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Thank you for the feedback folks! I sincerely appreciate the work that went into your in-depth review and comments about the CM mystery Burnt. You definitely have not only been paying attention you've been deconstructing the many elements to see what sticks. I appreciate this immensely! Your observations about an elite, secondary clean food source for the 1%'ers has a ring to it. Let the masses weed themselves out (w/ help from the processed food criminals) while the mucky-mucks eat pure, unadulterated food products... Makes a lot of sense. I had one person email me after on the radio shows I did and complain that people in the cities can't afford to eat grass-fed, free range meat and that this was NOT an option for most people. Sad but true...

 

[Bob Watson]

Chris take a look at this in this deer are clearly interacting with an unknown object I want to get the acual video so you can take a good look..