Stanton T. Friedman — August 3, 2014

[Bananas]

DissectionStalker
Off the top of my head, 2 reasons for UFOs crashing:

Time travelling gone bad.
Ets or intraterrestrials living on underground bases - their smaller ships are not that good According to witnesses in Varginha the crashed UFO was small like a minivan.

Or, maybe, the pilot was drunk as fuck?

 

[Ufocurious]

Or, maybe, the pilot was drunk as fuck?

In varginha there was smoke coming out the vehicle. According to this, the size was of a microbus, not a minivan:
The Varginha Extraterrestrial Case - UFO Evidence
The story has been widely publicized because, apparently without knowing about the incident involving the 3 girls, an elderly couple, Oralina Augusta and Eurico Rodrigues, who work as farmhands, insist on having seen a UFO very early in the morning of January 20th. They were sleeping in their house which is located near the road which goes from Varginha to Tres Coracoes when they woke to the noise made by the cows. They looked out of the window to see the animals totally disoriented and running around the house.

Eurico says: "We looked at the sky and saw a gray object, similar to a submarine, the size of a small bus, flying very slowly over the ground," describes Oralina. "There was something like white smoke coming out of it. There were no lights and it wasn't making any noise." Local people immediately associated this spaceship with the ET who appeared 14 hours later.

 

[DissectionStalker]

If that were the case, then what they were doing was resurrecting the original "crashed disk" story that had occurred decades earlier and that virtually everyone had already forgotten about in order to cover-up whatever it really was all over again. Sorry, but that makes no sense. They would have been further ahead to simply let sleeping dogs lie.

Alternatively, maybe AFOSI had no choice, explained below, and since UFO crash was already there as a historical fable "a news flash" -just run with what already had UFO mythology going for it! Just look at the bloodthirsty debates we're having now to prove 'that' point. Mass confusion is a win win too!

Ohhhh man, attention? ATTENTION? That IS fantastic for The Air Force Matrix -you know, the MIC. ET-UFOs or Human UFOs means military spending in the Trillions of dollars over decades. " TPB " just can't "convict" ET with real proof, as that would upset the Honey Pot for the entire geopolitical system of money and politics too! That can't be put into risk or in-play!

Faux'ing ET is another brilliant matter though. Wink.

We don't know if maybe Moore was snooping around first, and someone at AFOSI was also informed afterwards. So, OSI just took control, after the fact, to affect the outcome. AFOSI succeeded brilliantly, imo. Another confounding factor is LMH in the late 1970's. She actually might be a patsy or a disinformation operative too. But, that is another bizarre matter of insanity!

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

But, once again, go back to the ET-drake equation. Only 50-75 years more advanced than us? What are the odds ET or Humans would even be able to travel light years here in biology bodies???

Those odds are much much worse than what I already gave, though I did speculate at least 100 years more advanced than we are now -and that is still highly optimistic and unlikely too! That's only a One in Ten Billion Chance of that happening and crashing.

Plus, you have to consider the other part of the equation that takes into account the likely Human causes for Roswell instead. That's where the odds really blow-away any likely possibility this is ET-UFOs.

It is common practice for the Military to engage in PSYOPS, and according to James Carrion the military was doing this already with Ghost Rockets and the flying skipping saucers just weeks before Roswell too. Think about it! WHY did Kennith Arnold say the saucers skipped like a rock skipping across a pond of water???

Think about it some more now...

WHY are there ZERO reports of flying saucers doing that "skipping across water" today too!?!?!???

Answer: PSYOPS.

I would take the Human cause in an instant if there weren't so many Humans that gave testimony. Speaking of James Carrion, I'm assuming you've read his book which was just released. How is it that you've decided Carrion's gospel on ghost rockets so quickly. Let me give you a wink back by recommending that you not idol worship anyone without letting their words saute' a bit.

 

[DissectionStalker]

How is it that you've decided Carrion's gospel on ghost rockets so quickly.

Thanks for the wink.

Ghost rockets don't equal ET -anyway, right? Or ???

What Carrion got in the Bulls-Eye, imo, is the "saucers skipping like rocks on a pond" from Kennith Arnold. That's brilliant and has nothing to do with Ghost Rockets.

So, once again, consider the following:

What was going on with the flying skipping saucers just weeks before Roswell too. Think about it! WHY did Kennith Arnold say the saucers skipped like a rock skipping across a pond of water???

Think about it some more now...

WHY are there ZERO reports of flying saucers doing that "skipping across water" today too!?!?!??? I mean, flying saucers haven't been skipping around for decades.

Carrion's Answer: An outdated flying saucer "skipping technique" PSYOPS for the USSR to ponder about our weapons delivery capabilities. They were "obsessed" with that idea.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Thanks for the wink.

Ghost rockets don't equal ET -anyway, right? Or ???

What Carrion got in the Bulls-Eye, imo, is the "saucers skipping like rocks on a pond" from Kennith Arnold. That's brilliant and has nothing to do with Ghost Rockets.

So, once again, consider the following:

What was going on with the flying skipping saucers just weeks before Roswell too. Think about it! WHY did Kennith Arnold say the saucers skipped like a rock skipping across a pond of water???

Think about it some more now...

WHY are there ZERO reports of flying saucers doing that "skipping across water" today too!?!?!??? I mean, flying saucers haven't been skipping around for decades.

Answer: An outdated flying saucer "skipping technique" PSYOPS for the USSR to ponder about our weapons delivery capabilities. They were "obsessed" with that idea.

Actually his description was much much longer that the famous quote.
Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On June 24, 1947, Arnold was flying from Chehalis, Washington to Yakima, Washington in a CallAir A-2 on a business trip. He made a brief detour after learning of a $5,000 reward for the discovery of a U.S. Marine Corps C-46 transport airplane that had crashed near Mt. Rainier. The skies were completely clear and there was a mild wind.

A few minutes before 3:00 p.m. at about 9,200 feet (2,800 m) in altitude and near Mineral, Washington, he gave up his search and started heading eastward towards Yakima. He saw a bright flashing light, similar to sunlight reflecting from a mirror. Afraid he might be dangerously close to another aircraft, Arnold scanned the skies around him, but all he could see was a DC-4 to his left and behind him, about 15 miles (24 km) away.

About 30 seconds after seeing the first flash of light, Arnold saw a series of bright flashes in the distance off to his left, or north of Mt. Rainier, which was then 20 to 25 miles (40 km) away. He thought they might be reflections on his airplane's windows, but a few quick tests (rocking his airplane from side to side, removing his eyeglasses, later rolling down his side window) ruled this out. The reflections came from flying objects. They flew in a long chain, and Arnold for a moment considered they might be a flock of geese, but quickly ruled this out for a number of reasons, including the altitude, bright glint, and obviously very fast speed. He then thought they might be a new type of jet and started looking intently for a tail and was surprised that he couldn't find any.

They quickly approached Rainier and then passed in front, usually appearing dark in profile against the bright white snowfield covering Rainier, but occasionally still giving off bright light flashes as they flipped around erratically. Sometimes he said he could see them on edge, when they seemed so thin and flat they were practically invisible. According to Jerome Clark,[1][2] Arnold described them as a series of objects with convex shapes, though he later revealed that one object differed by being crescent-shaped. Several years later, Arnold would state he likened their movement to saucers skipping on water, without comparing their actual shapes to saucers,[3] but initial quotes from him do indeed have him comparing the shape to like a "saucer", "disc", "pie pan", or "half moon", or generally convex and thin (discussion below). At one point Arnold said they flew behind a subpeak of Rainier and briefly disappeared. Knowing his position and the position of the (unspecified) subpeak, Arnold placed their distance as they flew past Rainier at about 23 miles (37 km).

Using a dzus cowling fastener as a gauge to compare the nine objects to the distant DC-4, Arnold estimated their angular size as slightly smaller than the DC-4, about the width between the outer engines (about 60 feet). Arnold also said he realized that the objects would have to be quite large to see any details at that distance and later, after comparing notes with a United Airlines crew that had a similar sighting 10 days later (see below), placed the absolute size as larger than a DC-4 airliner (or greater than 100 feet (30 m) in length). Army Air Force analysts would later estimate 140 to 280 feet (85 m), based on analysis of human visual acuity and other sighting details (such as estimated distance).

Arnold said the objects were grouped together, as Ted Bloecher[4] writes, "in a diagonally stepped-down, echelon formation, stretched out over a distance that he later calculated to be five miles". Though moving on a more or less level horizontal plane, Arnold said the objects weaved from side to side ("like the tail of a Chinese kite" as he later stated), darting through the valleys and around the smaller mountain peaks. They would occasionally flip or bank on their edges in unison as they turned or maneuvered causing almost blindingly bright or mirror-like flashes of light. The encounter gave him an "eerie feeling", but Arnold suspected he had seen test flights of a new U.S. military aircraft.

As the objects passed Mt Rainer, Arnold turned his plane southward on a more or less parallel course. It was at this point that he opened his side window and began observing the objects unobstructed by any glass that might have produced reflections. The objects did not disappear and continued to move very rapidly southward, continuously moving forward of his position. Curious about their speed, he began to time their rate of passage: he said they moved from Mt. Rainer to Mount Adams where they faded from view, a distance of about 50 miles (80 km), in one minute and forty-two seconds, according to the clock on his instrument panel. When he later had time to do the calculation, the speed was over 1,700 miles per hour (2,700 km/h). This was about three times faster than any manned aircraft in 1947. Not knowing exactly the distance where the objects faded from view, Arnold conservatively and arbitrarily rounded this down to 1,200 miles (1,900 km) an hour, still faster than any known aircraft, which had yet to break the sound barrier. It was this supersonic speed in addition to the unusual saucer or disk description that seemed to capture people's attention.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Several years later, Arnold would state he likened their movement to saucers skipping on water, without comparing their actual shapes to saucers,[3] [...]

Ok, this is a wiki article, but 3 above [after a comma] can be somewhat misleading. Checking 3 has nothing to do about "skipping on water", so the whole sentence is misleading and possibly inaccurate.

It should be tracked down about the original publicity and articles to verify this "skipping story". (But I thank you for providing that information.)

Without revealing too much I am an experienced pilot with over 2,000 hrs of flying in different aircraft, so I found his flying experience about the reflections on the windows to be very accurate. What is unusual is his extreme interest in determining what these objects are. All the kinds of weird efforts to determine speed and size does seem to me "over the top".

After he landed and talked to fellow pilots about it they decided it was a military secret weapon.

Here is what I found from another website:

They were flat and rather heel-shaped, very shiny, and they moved erratically, like a "saucer would if you skipped it across water." [...]

When he arrived at Yakima, Washington, Arnold told several other pilots about his sighting. The consensus among them was that it was some type of military "secret weapon".

Also, from about.com:

Arnold told a newspaper reporter that the objects moved "like a saucer would if you skipped it across the water." Arnold was indicating how the objects bounced across the atmosphere, not the shape of the object, Yet, newspaper reporter Bill Bequette's report on the AP news wire used the term "flying saucer" to describe the objects' shape. A phrase was coined.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Holy Crap! Look at this test plane that existed in 1939 and earlier models developed in the 1920's!!!





Northrop N-1M

Jack Northrop became involved in innovative all-wing aircraft designs in the late-1920s, with his first Flying Wing being built in the 1928–1930 time period.

.

 

[Bananas]

Clearly, the primitive human mind couldn't come up with anything like that. Ze aliens made it.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Clearly, the primitive human mind couldn't come up with anything like that. Ze aliens made it.

You've been crack'n some great jokes lately. Keep'em coming.

Referencing the "skipping on water" that Kenneth Arnold saw:

The flying wings were notorious for difficulty to control up/down movements, so that may be why Arnold said these were "skipping on the water" -that would be the difficulty of the pilot to control these flying wings back then. It makes perfect sense to me. Google "Kenneth Arnold wing images", and you will see the flying wing he thought he saw "skipping across the water".

The modern flying wings like B2 stealth bomber REQUIRE computers to control flight. The Humans point the directions "fly by wire", but it is the computer that does the actual control to keep the aircraft safe.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Holy Crap! Look at this test plane that existed in 1939 and earlier models developed in the 1920's!!!





Northrop N-1M

Jack Northrop became involved in innovative all-wing aircraft designs in the late-1920s, with his first Flying Wing being built in the 1928–1930 time period.

.

yes! and he made nine of them!

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Oh, and don't forget the speed.....

 

[DissectionStalker]

yes! and he made nine of them!

Oh, and don't forget the speed.....

What you're forgetting is that technology in R&D and prototypes can be far advanced than what was presently available at that time in 1947. Plenty of information can be learned about the sighting to also know it was very difficult to estimate distance and speed, while also flying a plane too.

Arnold and his flying buddies all thought he saw top secret military aircraft, when he returned to tell the tale, so WHY can't you take him at his word too? Later that same day a guy in Kansas also saw nine aircraft that made an engine noise and flew very fast too. Top secret aircraft are never revealed until much later. IF these were from a German design or make, then it is likely the military would never reveal that, ever! Germans were not on the "friendly list" for decades to come.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, as I think you have just one option you choose from -it's ET. Right?

Just remember ET-UFOs have never flown before or since "skipping like rocks across a pond", but those flying wings back then were difficult to fly. Flying wings could easily appear to "skip across the sky" with its inherent instability and no computer controls.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

What you're forgetting is that technology in R&D and prototypes can be far advanced than what was presently available at that time in 1947. Plenty of information can be learned about the sighting to also know it was very difficult to estimate distance and speed, while also flying a plane too.

Arnold and his flying buddies all thought he saw top secret military aircraft, when he returned to tell the tale, so WHY can't you take him at his word too? Later that same day a guy in Kansas also saw nine aircraft that made an engine noise and flew very fast too. Top secret aircraft are never revealed until much later. IF these were from a German design or make, then it is likely the military would never reveal that, ever! Germans were not on the "friendly list" for decades to come.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, as I think you have just one option you choose from -it's ET. Right?

Just remember ET-UFOs have never flown before or since "skipping like rocks across a pond", but those flying wings back then were difficult to fly. Flying wings could easily appear to "skip across the sky" with its inherent instability and no computer controls.

I don't have a problem with Arnold's sighting being human if a plausable explanation could be provided. I posted his description because you can't piecemeal some of his statements to prop up other explanations. You have to read his entire statement. Not only does he give a credible account, he also states there were aprox. nine objects and he does his best to calculate speed. Also in that report I posted, another commercial aircraft a week prior reported seeing the same objects. Building a prototype to test fly an area is logical, building nine of them is not.

 

[DissectionStalker]

You need to address these two points, which you have ignored repeatedly...

1) Did you see the picture of the flying wing that Arnold was showing what the aircraft looked like??? Those are Human flying wings! Not ET. The military is capable of possessing 1 or 100 of these aircraft! The fact 9 were on display means they had at least 9 of these. Arguing about prototype numbers is silly. The military can prototype or test in small numbers too, and they can do limited production runs too. Nine = no problem. For all we know these could have been captured German aircraft that were then finished or modified in America after the war.

2) The flight characteristics are that of flying wings -like a rock skipping over the water due to the innate instability. NO ET-UFO has ever had these flight characteristics, so it's not ET if you can understand this point is well reasoned -and it is well reasoned. It's Human.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

You need to address these two points, which you have ignored repeatedly...

1) Did you see the picture of the flying wing that Arnold was showing what the aircraft looked like??? Those are Human flying wings! Not ET. The military is capable of possessing 1 or 100 of these aircraft! The fact 9 were on display means they had at least 9 of these. Arguing about prototype numbers is silly. The military can prototype or test in small numbers too, and they can do limited production runs too. Nine = no problem. For all we know these could have been captured German aircraft that were then finished or modified in America after the war.

2) The flight characteristics are that of flying wings -like a rock skipping over the water due to the innate instability. NO ET-UFO has ever had these flight characteristics, so it's not ET if you can understand this point is well reasoned -and it is well reasoned. It's Human.

I'm not ignoring your conclusions at all, I did address it. I don't agree with you. It's highly unlikely that our military would produce "nine" of these saucer ships that produce unstable flight patterns. That does not tend to be the normal production procedure for any body of serious study, including new airplanes. Nine = stupid, test, retest, tinker, retest, etc....whalla, production! Surely your not implying that our incredibly sophisticated psyops government, the very one that is fooling all things human, would be so stupid as to produce nine crappy ships?

 

[Stagger Lee]

yet, in the years that followed Arnold's sighting, numerous pilots reported saucer shaped vehicles performing incredible moves, that would tear apart any human pilot- backed by radar. The early to mid 50's have many military/govt officials publicly voicing concerns over these objects. Even IF Arnold's objects were human tech. That does not explain the incredible reports from credible sources in the years that follow.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Oh, and on number 2. , Since I believe Roswell did happen then I have no problem a ET's doing some crappy flying.

 

[Stagger Lee]

The thing most that bothers me with Roswell. 50 years later, we're told it was actually Project Mogul with crash test dummies on board? Seems like a desperate explanation put out while under pressure. Not sure about the crashed disk- but crash test dummies? Please

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Holy Crap! Look at this test plane that existed in 1939 and earlier models developed in the 1920's!!!





Northrop N-1M

Jack Northrop became involved in innovative all-wing aircraft designs in the late-1920s, with his first Flying Wing being built in the 1928–1930 time period.

.

Northrop N-1M - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Operational history
Northrop's Chief Test Pilot Vance Breese flew the N-1M on its maiden flight, unexpectedly bouncing into the air during a planned high-speed taxi run. He reported that the aircraft could fly no higher than five feet off the ground. Flight could only be sustained by maintaining a precise angle of attack, but Theodore von Kármán solved the problem by making adjustments to the trailing edges of the elevons. Control of the aircraft was achieved through the use of a system of elevons and wingtip rudders. The elevons served in tailless type aircraft both as elevators and ailerons, while split flaps on the downward angled wingtips took the place of a conventional rudder; they were later straightened after that angle proved unnecessary during flight testing.[4]

The flight test program continued with Moye W. Stephens, Northrop Test Pilot and Secretary to the Northrop Corporation, serving as a test pilot. Early tests showed the N-1M to be satisfactory in stability and control, but overweight and underpowered. The aircraft's two 65 hp Lycoming 0-145 four-cylinder engines (buried in the wing to reduce drag) were replaced by two 120 hp six-cylinder 6AC264F2 air-cooled Franklin engines. By November 1941, after having made some 28 flights, Stephens reported that when attempting to move the N-1M about its vertical axis, the aircraft had a tendency to "Dutch roll." The oscillations proved to be manageable when adjustments were made to the aircraft's wing configuration.[4]

The N-1M proved to be basically sound, paving the way for Northrop's later and much larger Northrop YB-35 and YB-49 aircraft. The pioneering aircraft was then donated to the United States Army Air Forces in 1945 and was placed in the storage collection of the National Air Museum the following year. It sat there for nearly three decades, but was finally brought back to static, non-flying status, in its final flight configuration, after several years of painstaking restoration during the 1980s. The N-1M is now on public display at the National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center.[4]