Stanton T. Friedman — August 3, 2014

[DissectionStalker]

yet, in the years that followed Arnold's sighting, numerous pilots reported saucer shaped vehicles performing incredible moves, that would tear apart any human pilot- backed by radar

There is no doubt in my mind that UFOs were believed in by many military pilots in the 1950's. I believe there is radar tracking too, however radar was not perfected either. We need to know about the quality of radar tracking real and false "ghost" objects vs jamming or other electronic artifacts that might mimic fast moving or directional changes but just be "ghost imaging".

Hopefully, there are some well documented cases, because every damn time I look into something worthwhile it just seems "to evaporate" in the details.

The only UFO case that seems real to me is the JAL flight 1628 in 1986.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Nine = stupid, test, retest, tinker, retest, etc....whalla, production! Surely your not implying that our incredibly sophisticated psyops government, the very one that is fooling all things human, would be so stupid as to produce nine crappy ships?

I wouldn't say what Arnold witnessed was "crappy". It's just that these aircraft look exactly like a Human flying wing design, and these did NOT have the flight characteristics of ET-UFOs before or since. Again, this means Human, imo.

My best guess is these were captured German flying wings, or a highly classified aircraft that was definitely within the technology capabilities of Humans to make in 1947. But, this is not Roswell, and I leave it to James Carrion to explain and document the possible PSYOPS relating to Kenneth Arnold.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

I wouldn't say what Arnold witnessed was "crappy". It's just that these aircraft look exactly like a Human flying wing design, and these did NOT have the flight characteristics of ET-UFOs before or since. Again, this means Human, imo.

My best guess is these were captured German flying wings, or a highly classified aircraft that was definitely within the technology capabilities of Humans to make in 1947. But, this is not Roswell, and I leave it to James Carrion to explain and document the possible PSYOPS relating to Kenneth Arnold.

Well I'm done here, enjoy yourself on the site.

 

[manxman]

Aye heidi a waste of time, knows it all.

The lowest estimated speed of the Arnold sighting was 1200mph, the best guess was 1700mph by time taken for distance covered during his sighting and chase, only 2 or 3 time's the speed of sound, perfectly normal..

 

[DissectionStalker]

I put this post in here too, since SF made these comments on the Paracast that is the subject of this thread.

Stanton Friedman was being disingenuous [exact quotes below] to imply he uses the scientific method but James Carrion doesn't, when Friedman hasn't done peer reviewed research ever??? I seriously doubt his masters thesis was even peer reviewed??? (That only happens if he was part of a funded research project that is also submitted for peer review with his name as one of the authors.) He's never been an academic doing peer review, and he has NOT worked in classified projects since the 1970's! He's "out of it", wink, with no published peer review and a masters degree.

When Gene asked SF about the Ghost Rockets being a deception, SF said quoting: "I think he's full of baloney about that. The ghost rockets were real. That's why we sent Jimmy Doolittle over there." [Chris O'brien interjected that the deception was real and manufactured, but Stanton interrupted with the following about Carrion's past works instead of addressing that point.]

SF said: "Well, I'm anxious to read the book, but I've read others of the things that Carrion has spoken about, and I found he was full of baloney. I hate to put it that way, but, uh, yeah, we delicatessen guys got to speak up."

I think it's fair to say: SF was being dismissive, and condescending, and somewhat "holier than thou" about James Carrion and his book Ghost Rockets, when SF also wrote:

Here's another response from Stan to James:

One would think that the Ghost Rockets as portrayed by James in his book are the sumtotal for ufology.I don't buy it. There is a context for pretty much everything in Life. James I can't seem to find a bio on you that makes you an expert on the scientific method, nor any degrees in science, nor seemingly any employment as a scientist.,Do you belong to any professional scientist organizations.? Have you published in scientific journals? How can one debate your book without reference to the huge amount of information that shows there is far more to the question of UFOs than is encompassed in your book? I did indeed say I expected baloney because you had previously published baloney. Most leapards don't change their spots.

Stan Friedman​

 

[DissectionStalker]

Aye heidi a waste of time, knows it all.

Wrong! ...I do not "knows it all."

The lowest estimated speed of the Arnold sighting was 1200mph, the best guess was 1700mph by time taken for distance covered during his sighting and chase, only 2 or 3 time's the speed of sound, perfectly normal..

HaHaHaHa... that is absolutely laughable! There is no way Arnold could be accurate about any of this. Ridiculous! He had no radar detector to gauge speed, nor any other instrumentation to be accurate.

Estimating distances, objects, movements at and estimated 25 miles away, ETC. IS:

PULLING WILD HAIRS OUT OF ONE'S ARSE...

All while flying a plane too! He was having trouble seeing and following the objects at a great distance away! Get REAL.

 

[Randall]

Referencing the "skipping on water" that Kenneth Arnold saw:

The flying wings were notorious for difficulty to control up/down movements, so that may be why Arnold said these were "skipping on the water" -that would be the difficulty of the pilot to control these flying wings back then. It makes perfect sense to me. Google "Kenneth Arnold wing images", and you will see the flying wing he thought he saw "skipping across the water".

The modern flying wings like B2 stealth bomber REQUIRE computers to control flight. The Humans point the directions "fly by wire", but it is the computer that does the actual control to keep the aircraft safe.

To interject here, I did a bunch of digging on the Northrop Flying wing for a debate I was having over on the JREF site, and it turns out that the Northrop flying wing actually flew very well. Problems with the aircraft have been largely exaggerated and there was even evidence of sabotage. The "directional oscillations" were something that the pilots noticed under certain circumstances, but aren't visually detectable in any of the flight films I've seen. The YB-49 jet-powered aircraft first flew on 21 October 1947, some months after Arnold's sighting. But it is possible that he may have seen some earlier piston engine models, but that would not be in-line with Arnold's estimate of the craft's speed.

The skipping motion Arnold reported was probably due to the maneuvers the objects were making and/or atmospheric conditions in the mountains where colder and warmer air mix causing a lensing effect. Arnold also reported that the objects he saw were quite distant and that when the sun glinted off them made them appear to be circular in shape. Arnold also described the craft as convex shapes, with only one having the crescent shape we see in the popular artist's rendition. Personally, I don't think there's enough information in Arnold's sighting to determine whether the objects were UFOs ( alien craft ) or unidentified aircraft of terrestrial manufacture.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

DANG Randall!
Congratulations! Correct me if I'm wrong Gene, but UFOLOGY appears to be the very first Paracast poster to attain the inconceivable 5000 post mark on the Paracast Forum. I could be wrong. But Gene has just broken the 8K ceiling (as the founding host/moderator) and I have just attained the 2K mark—after almost five years.

Here's an idea: The Paracast Forum could have a qualified poster incentive program... A calculation between the number of threads created and the number of posts in response to threads on the board. There could be a reward program for the 1K, 2K, 3K, 4K, and @ the 5K+ levels. Obviously, not all posts are equal. There are problems trying to ascertain a subjective number... Besides figuring out a way to weed out the gratuitous 1-5 word responses, any ideas on how to calculate a total number of quality posts from a poster, so they can be recognized and rewarded? Perhaps a "likes" to posts ratio? Gene?

 

[Randall]

DANG Randall!
Congratulations! Correct me if I'm wrong Gene, but UFOLOGY appears to be the very first Paracast poster to attain the inconceivable 5000 post mark on the Paracast Forum. I could be wrong. But Gene has just broken the 8K ceiling (as the founding host/moderator) and I have just attained the 2K mark—after almost five years.

Here's an idea: The Paracast Forum could have a qualified poster incentive program... A calculation between the number of threads created and the number of posts in response to threads on the board. There could be a reward program for the 1K, 2K, 3K, 4K, and @ the 5K+ levels. Obviously, not all posts are equal. There are problems trying to ascertain a subjective number... Besides figuring out a way to weed out the gratuitous 1-5 word responses, any ideas on how to calculate a total number of quality posts from a poster, so they can be recognized and rewarded? Perhaps a "likes" to posts ratio? Gene?

Thanks for noticing Chris . I'd actually mused over the idea of mysteriously disappearing as soon as I hit the 5000 post mark, but then forgot ( DOH ). Too late now. Looks like your stuck with me until 6666 . On the idea of rewards, my rewards have been all the great discussions and debates I've had with participants on the forum, and of course the couple of guest appearances on the show. Not sure what else you guys could offer frequent posters. Maybe a complimentary membership to the "Paracast Plus" if that ever gets off the ground.

 

[SRL+]

Chris needs an honorable mention here, as he’s created over two hundred threads since starting out in 09’.

 

[Wade]

Here's an idea: The Paracast Forum could have a qualified poster incentive program... A calculation between the number of threads created and the number of posts in response to threads on the board. There could be a reward program for the 1K, 2K, 3K, 4K, and @ the 5K+ levels. Obviously, not all posts are equal. There are problems trying to ascertain a subjective number... Besides figuring out a way to weed out the gratuitous 1-5 word responses, any ideas on how to calculate a total number of quality posts from a poster, so they can be recognized and rewarded? Perhaps a "likes" to posts ratio? Gene?

Would Spam count ?