Substrate-independent minds

[mike]

MIT Synthetic Intelligence Laboratory | Discovering How the Brain Implements Intelligence

 

[mike]

Gotta love it, Nodes........

The Millennium Project is a global participatory think tank connecting 50 Nodes around the world that identify important long-range challenges and strategies, and initiate and conduct foresight studies, workshops, symposiums, and advanced training. Its mission is to improve thinking about the future and make it available through a variety of media for feedback to accumulate wisdom about the future for better decisions today

Will Artificial Intelligence, Robots, Nanotech, Synthetic Biology and Other Forms of Futuristic Technology Replace More Work than They Create? - University Chronicle

 

[Soupie]

Is it true that most evil dictators don't know they're evil dictators?

There is definitely something in the air regarding AI; I've had many articles come across my streams lately.

A few good ones:

www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/opinion/margaret-atwood-on-our-robotic-future.html

Sci-fi writers have been exploring robots for decades, but they were far from the first to do so. Humankind has been imagining nonbiological but sentient entities that do our bidding ever since we first set stylus to papyrus.​

I made the comment to Smcder that the story in Genesis of God creating the angels and humans for His pleasure is a type of variant of this meme. Sentient beings creating other sentient beings for companionship.

Should we fear the technological singularity? | NeuroBanter

Dystopian eventualities aside, the singularity concept is inherently interesting because it pushes us to examine what we mean by being human (as my colleague Murray Shanahanargues in a forthcoming book). While intelligence is part of the story, being human is also about having a body and an internal physiology; we are self-sustaining flesh bags. It is also about consciousness; we are each at the centre of a subjective universe of experience. Current AI has little to say about these issues, and it is far from clear whether truly autonomous and self-driven AI is possible in their absence. The ethical minefield deepens when we realize that AIs becoming conscious would entail ethical responsibilities towards them, regardless of their impact on us.​

And finally, Kurzweil's thoughts on the exceleration of technology and specifically AI must be taken seriously due to developments such as this:

Demis Hassabis, Founder of DeepMind Technologies and Artificial-Intelligence Wunderkind at Google, Wants Machines to Think Like Us | MIT Technology Review

No one had ever demonstrated software that could learn to master such a complex task from scratch. DeepMind had made use of a newly fashionable machine learning technique called deep learning, which involves processing data through networks of crudely simulated neurons (see “10 Breakthrough Technologies 2013: Deep Learning”). But it had combined deep learning with other tricks to make something with an unexpected level of intelligence.

“People were a bit shocked because they didn’t expect that we would be able to do that at this stage of the technology,” says Stuart Russell, a professor and artificial intelligence specialist at University of California, Berkeley. “I think it gave a lot of people pause.”

DeepMind had combined deep learning with a technique called reinforcement learning, which is inspired by the work of animal psychologists such as B.F. Skinner. This led to software that learns by taking actions and receiving feedback on their effects, as humans or animals often do.​

What's scary/interesting is that they don't quite understand why this allows their software to learn so quickly. Yikes.

However, it's these types of unanticipated leaps in technology that Kurzweil is anticipating and exactly why those that doubt his timeline predictions might consider reconsidering.

 

[smcder]

I'm only guessing of course , but i imagine the two societies will function side by side for a long time.

Just as societys have adjusted to mixed race and later LGBT couples , so too will it adjust to SI and PB citizens.

Universal acceptance isnt likely in the near future, there will be people who for various reasons object.

Some people will refuse to interact with uploads, just as they do today with various groups

I'm leaning toward this possibility too ... Lots of good story ideas in this as well. I'm also interests in the we never know it happened scenario of the singularity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

I imagine that in order to compete with biologicals, the simmys will need to be as good as biologicals in all aspects. we already have a "real doll" industry so i doubt if animating them and giving them simulated intellect will detract from that current situation.

There is a moral minefield associated with this aspect of the discussion, but those same issues are just as real when we talk about biologicals

The major difference will be does the SI have the same rights as a biological, and if the answer is yes. have we really avoided the degradation/exploitation aspects

Right ... saw those RDs some time ago, very creepy. I think some will want more and more responsivity esp for certain fantasies - we permit these scenarios in pormograohy now ... But can we argue additional realism even without consciousness is a danger, feeding the predatory mentality. A minefield as you say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

Is it true that most evil dictators don't know they're evil dictators?

There is definitely something in the air regarding AI; I've had many articles come across my streams lately.

A few good ones:

www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/opinion/margaret-atwood-on-our-robotic-future.html

Sci-fi writers have been exploring robots for decades, but they were far from the first to do so. Humankind has been imagining nonbiological but sentient entities that do our bidding ever since we first set stylus to papyrus.​

I made the comment to Smcder that the story in Genesis of God creating the angels and humans for His pleasure is a type of variant of this meme. Sentient beings creating other sentient beings for companionship.

Should we fear the technological singularity? | NeuroBanter

Dystopian eventualities aside, the singularity concept is inherently interesting because it pushes us to examine what we mean by being human (as my colleague Murray Shanahanargues in a forthcoming book). While intelligence is part of the story, being human is also about having a body and an internal physiology; we are self-sustaining flesh bags. It is also about consciousness; we are each at the centre of a subjective universe of experience. Current AI has little to say about these issues, and it is far from clear whether truly autonomous and self-driven AI is possible in their absence. The ethical minefield deepens when we realize that AIs becoming conscious would entail ethical responsibilities towards them, regardless of their impact on us.​

And finally, Kurzweil's thoughts on the exceleration of technology and specifically AI must be taken seriously due to developments such as this:

Demis Hassabis, Founder of DeepMind Technologies and Artificial-Intelligence Wunderkind at Google, Wants Machines to Think Like Us | MIT Technology Review

No one had ever demonstrated software that could learn to master such a complex task from scratch. DeepMind had made use of a newly fashionable machine learning technique called deep learning, which involves processing data through networks of crudely simulated neurons (see “10 Breakthrough Technologies 2013: Deep Learning”). But it had combined deep learning with other tricks to make something with an unexpected level of intelligence.

“People were a bit shocked because they didn’t expect that we would be able to do that at this stage of the technology,” says Stuart Russell, a professor and artificial intelligence specialist at University of California, Berkeley. “I think it gave a lot of people pause.”

DeepMind had combined deep learning with a technique called reinforcement learning, which is inspired by the work of animal psychologists such as B.F. Skinner. This led to software that learns by taking actions and receiving feedback on their effects, as humans or animals often do.​

What's scary/interesting is that they don't quite understand why this allows their software to learn so quickly. Yikes.

However, it's these types of unanticipated leaps in technology that Kurzweil is anticipating and exactly why those that doubt his timeline predictions might consider reconsidering.

Think corporate strategy when evaluating these claims.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

Is it true that most evil dictators don't know they're evil dictators?

There is definitely something in the air regarding AI; I've had many articles come across my streams lately.

A few good ones:

www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/opinion/margaret-atwood-on-our-robotic-future.html

Sci-fi writers have been exploring robots for decades, but they were far from the first to do so. Humankind has been imagining nonbiological but sentient entities that do our bidding ever since we first set stylus to papyrus.​

I made the comment to Smcder that the story in Genesis of God creating the angels and humans for His pleasure is a type of variant of this meme. Sentient beings creating other sentient beings for companionship.

Should we fear the technological singularity? | NeuroBanter

Dystopian eventualities aside, the singularity concept is inherently interesting because it pushes us to examine what we mean by being human (as my colleague Murray Shanahanargues in a forthcoming book). While intelligence is part of the story, being human is also about having a body and an internal physiology; we are self-sustaining flesh bags. It is also about consciousness; we are each at the centre of a subjective universe of experience. Current AI has little to say about these issues, and it is far from clear whether truly autonomous and self-driven AI is possible in their absence. The ethical minefield deepens when we realize that AIs becoming conscious would entail ethical responsibilities towards them, regardless of their impact on us.​

And finally, Kurzweil's thoughts on the exceleration of technology and specifically AI must be taken seriously due to developments such as this:

Demis Hassabis, Founder of DeepMind Technologies and Artificial-Intelligence Wunderkind at Google, Wants Machines to Think Like Us | MIT Technology Review

No one had ever demonstrated software that could learn to master such a complex task from scratch. DeepMind had made use of a newly fashionable machine learning technique called deep learning, which involves processing data through networks of crudely simulated neurons (see “10 Breakthrough Technologies 2013: Deep Learning”). But it had combined deep learning with other tricks to make something with an unexpected level of intelligence.

“People were a bit shocked because they didn’t expect that we would be able to do that at this stage of the technology,” says Stuart Russell, a professor and artificial intelligence specialist at University of California, Berkeley. “I think it gave a lot of people pause.”

DeepMind had combined deep learning with a technique called reinforcement learning, which is inspired by the work of animal psychologists such as B.F. Skinner. This led to software that learns by taking actions and receiving feedback on their effects, as humans or animals often do.​

What's scary/interesting is that they don't quite understand why this allows their software to learn so quickly. Yikes.

However, it's these types of unanticipated leaps in technology that Kurzweil is anticipating and exactly why those that doubt his timeline predictions might consider reconsidering.

Interesting to think AI could do all the human things with consciousness - sheer brute force or something like this approach ... or more interesting that consciousness might be got at in more than one way ... maybe there are "n" solutions to the hard problem ...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

We don't cotton to no robots round these here parts ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

Another big "duh" - corporations as a unit of evolution ... They have already achieved legal personhood in some respects here in the US


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

Is it true that most evil dictators don't know they're evil dictators?

There is definitely something in the air regarding AI; I've had many articles come across my streams lately.

A few good ones:

www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/opinion/margaret-atwood-on-our-robotic-future.html

Sci-fi writers have been exploring robots for decades, but they were far from the first to do so. Humankind has been imagining nonbiological but sentient entities that do our bidding ever since we first set stylus to papyrus.​

I made the comment to Smcder that the story in Genesis of God creating the angels and humans for His pleasure is a type of variant of this meme. Sentient beings creating other sentient beings for companionship.

Should we fear the technological singularity? | NeuroBanter

Dystopian eventualities aside, the singularity concept is inherently interesting because it pushes us to examine what we mean by being human (as my colleague Murray Shanahanargues in a forthcoming book). While intelligence is part of the story, being human is also about having a body and an internal physiology; we are self-sustaining flesh bags. It is also about consciousness; we are each at the centre of a subjective universe of experience. Current AI has little to say about these issues, and it is far from clear whether truly autonomous and self-driven AI is possible in their absence. The ethical minefield deepens when we realize that AIs becoming conscious would entail ethical responsibilities towards them, regardless of their impact on us.​

And finally, Kurzweil's thoughts on the exceleration of technology and specifically AI must be taken seriously due to developments such as this:

Demis Hassabis, Founder of DeepMind Technologies and Artificial-Intelligence Wunderkind at Google, Wants Machines to Think Like Us | MIT Technology Review

No one had ever demonstrated software that could learn to master such a complex task from scratch. DeepMind had made use of a newly fashionable machine learning technique called deep learning, which involves processing data through networks of crudely simulated neurons (see “10 Breakthrough Technologies 2013: Deep Learning”). But it had combined deep learning with other tricks to make something with an unexpected level of intelligence.

“People were a bit shocked because they didn’t expect that we would be able to do that at this stage of the technology,” says Stuart Russell, a professor and artificial intelligence specialist at University of California, Berkeley. “I think it gave a lot of people pause.”

DeepMind had combined deep learning with a technique called reinforcement learning, which is inspired by the work of animal psychologists such as B.F. Skinner. This led to software that learns by taking actions and receiving feedback on their effects, as humans or animals often do.​

What's scary/interesting is that they don't quite understand why this allows their software to learn so quickly. Yikes.

However, it's these types of unanticipated leaps in technology that Kurzweil is anticipating and exactly why those that doubt his timeline predictions might consider reconsidering.

Human beings are the gut flora of immortal, transhuman corporations - Boing Boing

I was happier as a Self-Sustaining Flesh Bag!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

"In this controversial reinterpretation of Charles Darwin’s life and work, the authors of a highly regarded 1991 biography argue that the driving force behind Darwin’s theory of evolution was his fierce abolitionism, which had deep family roots and was reinforced by his voyage on the Beagle and by events in America." - Scientific American


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

Its all relative i guess, there are some things that have been done that perhaps shouldnt like nukes and MIRVs. But as i believe one of Streibers alleged visitors once told him, the universe has one simple rule

The ability to do a thing is all the right you need to do so.

When we apply this maxim to various scenarios our moral response will differ from example to example, But at the end of the day there is a simple logic to that statement.

I think AI or SI as i prefer to call it, will be implemented in the same way seatbelts were, Seatbelts save lives as the slogan goes.

If it turns out cars fitted with AI dont crash like human piloted ones do now, then we will see them included as standard items like airbags, seatbelts and their poor cousins anti collision systems.

If SI Doctors and surgeons do a statistically better job than biologicals, again they will likely replace them.

Ufologys example is another good one

Other industrys will use them such as mining and prostitution

In their paper, they envision a future where robotic prostitutes are the solution to the sex industry's most glaring problems, such as human trafficking, human degradation and the spread of sexually transmitted infections.

Robot Prostitutes, the Future of Sex Tourism : Discovery News

Robot Restaurant: Robots cook food and wait tables in Harbin | Daily Mail Online

Aged care is another area

At Hanson Robotics, the team believes the immediate future for the business lies in creating animatronic robots for theme parks while it develops for the longer term lifelike androids to work in hospitals and with special needs children.

Hanson Robotics Inc Home - Hanson Robotics Inc

The Future of Artificial Intelligence: AI 140 British Android ‘Jules’ Mimics Facial Expressions with human like qualities

And yes, the issues in regards to "jobs" is a very real one, but not without precident. Tractors replaced the horse. Robots now do many things humans did in years gone by.

Adding SI to hanson robotics type bodys will enable them to delve even deeper into roles done by humans such as tour guides ,waiters, bar staff etc etc. But this is inevitable as it was in the automotive industry, and for the same reasons

"The ability to do a thing is all the right you need to do so."

I can't find this quote ...? Do you have a source?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

It will happen whether we want it to or not. Ideally choices should be made on an individual basis. But what about the children? Parents tend to want them to have every opportunity and advantage that will help them succeed and survive. What if getting those opportunities and advantages requires choices to be made before a child can decide for themselves, even before birth, or possibly even before conception? Those are more complex issues. What happens when not having the modifications makes us social outcasts? Will all parents choose not to have the modifications? I seriously doubt it.

I already feel that pressure simply because I don't use a cell phone. Many jobs these days require that applicants own a cell phone, and a lot of communications flows through this medium. Commerce is also moving toward smart phones for banking, payments, coupons, and contests. So I'm already at a disadvantage, and it hasn't even been embedded into our physiology ( yet ). However at some point the technology will become so transparent that simply thinking about the problems you want to solve will result in really useful answers without having to manually sift through piles of information. Whether we like it or not, I suspect that this will become the world of the future. People like me will become like the Amish are to society today.

​

Don't you object to cell phones on the basis of a possible link to cancer or other health concerns? If they were shown to be safe, would you adopt?

Also I thought I saw a thread you started on gadgets ... ?

Are their general grounds on which you object to new technologies? This is very interesting!

The Amish comparison you make is curious:

"The Amish's willingness to submit to the "Will of Jesus", expressed through group norms, is at odds with the individualism so central to the wider American culture.

The Amish anti-individualist orientation is the motive for rejecting labor-saving technologies that might make one less dependent on community. Modern innovations like electricity might spark a competition for status goods, or photographs might cultivate personal vanity."




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

Is it true that most evil dictators don't know they're evil dictators?

There is definitely something in the air regarding AI; I've had many articles come across my streams lately.

A few good ones:

www.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/opinion/margaret-atwood-on-our-robotic-future.html

Sci-fi writers have been exploring robots for decades, but they were far from the first to do so. Humankind has been imagining nonbiological but sentient entities that do our bidding ever since we first set stylus to papyrus.​

I made the comment to Smcder that the story in Genesis of God creating the angels and humans for His pleasure is a type of variant of this meme. Sentient beings creating other sentient beings for companionship.

Should we fear the technological singularity? | NeuroBanter

Dystopian eventualities aside, the singularity concept is inherently interesting because it pushes us to examine what we mean by being human (as my colleague Murray Shanahanargues in a forthcoming book). While intelligence is part of the story, being human is also about having a body and an internal physiology; we are self-sustaining flesh bags. It is also about consciousness; we are each at the centre of a subjective universe of experience. Current AI has little to say about these issues, and it is far from clear whether truly autonomous and self-driven AI is possible in their absence. The ethical minefield deepens when we realize that AIs becoming conscious would entail ethical responsibilities towards them, regardless of their impact on us.​

And finally, Kurzweil's thoughts on the exceleration of technology and specifically AI must be taken seriously due to developments such as this:

Demis Hassabis, Founder of DeepMind Technologies and Artificial-Intelligence Wunderkind at Google, Wants Machines to Think Like Us | MIT Technology Review

No one had ever demonstrated software that could learn to master such a complex task from scratch. DeepMind had made use of a newly fashionable machine learning technique called deep learning, which involves processing data through networks of crudely simulated neurons (see “10 Breakthrough Technologies 2013: Deep Learning”). But it had combined deep learning with other tricks to make something with an unexpected level of intelligence.

“People were a bit shocked because they didn’t expect that we would be able to do that at this stage of the technology,” says Stuart Russell, a professor and artificial intelligence specialist at University of California, Berkeley. “I think it gave a lot of people pause.”

DeepMind had combined deep learning with a technique called reinforcement learning, which is inspired by the work of animal psychologists such as B.F. Skinner. This led to software that learns by taking actions and receiving feedback on their effects, as humans or animals often do.​

What's scary/interesting is that they don't quite understand why this allows their software to learn so quickly. Yikes.

However, it's these types of unanticipated leaps in technology that Kurzweil is anticipating and exactly why those that doubt his timeline predictions might consider reconsidering.

"How old is the transhumanist desire in man? We suspect very old indeed.

The desire of transhumanists is to avoid death. Death is the enemy. It, to a transhumanist, destroys continuity of thought, interrupts research and learning and separates us from loved ones."

h+ Magazine | A History of Transhumanism - h+ Magazine


"A History of Transhumanism
August 22, 2011 Transhumanism
By: Guillermo Santamaria


How old is the transhumanist desire in man? We suspect very old indeed.

The desire of transhumanists is to avoid death. Death is the enemy. It, to a transhumanist, destroys continuity of thought, interrupts research and learning and separates us from loved ones. "

"I wish it were possible…to invent a method of embalming drowned persons in such a manner that they might be recalled to life at any period, however distant; for having a very ardent desire to see and observe the state of America a hundred years hence, I should prefer to an ordinary death, being immersed with a few friends in a cask of Madeira, until that time, then to be recalled to life by solar warmth of my dear country! But …in all probability, we live in a century too little advanced, and too near the infancy of science, to see such an art brought in our time to its perfection”

Benjamin Franklin, Tx

"Doctors & Shamans Were The First Transhumanists

Some may seem very skeptical at seeing Shamans listed as transhumanists. But to us a belief in a metaphysical is not a prerequisite for holding to a transhumanist bent.

The true question is should we as humans accept our physical bodies’ present limitations?

Medicine has always said no. To us, any attempt to extend human life is at its heart a transhumanist effort. Any attempt to delay death or thwart it, is a transhumanist effort."

That's claiming a lot of ground ... but that's interesting in itself






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mike]

He also claimed that life on Earth could move away from organic creatures towards computerised life-forms
“I think like all organisms on Earth our species has a limited lifespan,” he said.
“If we can somehow merge with our electronic creations in a larger scale endosymbiosis, it may provide a better next step in the evolution of humanity and Gaia.”

We should give up trying to save the world from climate change, says James Lovelock - Telegraph


Perhaps, he suggests, we are not the end point of civilisation but its John the Baptists – the species that either gave birth to, or merged with, a species of electronic life that can supervise and preserve Gaia for centuries to come. That, Lovelock believes, would truly be an achievement. And if it sounds far-fetched – well, they laughed at the Gaia hypothesis, too.
A Rough Ride to the Future by James Lovelock

A Rough Ride to the Future by James Lovelock, review - Telegraph

 

[mike]

"The ability to do a thing is all the right you need to do so."

I can't find this quote ...? Do you have a source?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IIRC Streiber asked his "Visitors" what gives you the right to take me from my bed, to frighten me and my family

That was their reply

 

[mike]

Medicine has always said no. To us, any attempt to extend human life is at its heart a transhumanist effort. Any attempt to delay death or thwart it, is a transhumanist effort."

Thats a good example

We have no problem with technology that extends life now, i dont see why uploading would be treated any differently.

Grandad goes to hospital and comes back with a mechanical heart, hes different but still grandad, why would a mechanical brain subtrate be any different.

 

[smcder]

IIRC Streiber asked his "Visitors" what gives you the right to take me from my bed, to frighten me and my family

That was their reply

LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

"How old is the transhumanist desire in man? We suspect very old indeed.

The desire of transhumanists is to avoid death. Death is the enemy. It, to a transhumanist, destroys continuity of thought, interrupts research and learning and separates us from loved ones."

h+ Magazine | A History of Transhumanism - h+ Magazine


"A History of Transhumanism
August 22, 2011 Transhumanism
By: Guillermo Santamaria


How old is the transhumanist desire in man? We suspect very old indeed.

The desire of transhumanists is to avoid death. Death is the enemy. It, to a transhumanist, destroys continuity of thought, interrupts research and learning and separates us from loved ones. "

"I wish it were possible…to invent a method of embalming drowned persons in such a manner that they might be recalled to life at any period, however distant; for having a very ardent desire to see and observe the state of America a hundred years hence, I should prefer to an ordinary death, being immersed with a few friends in a cask of Madeira, until that time, then to be recalled to life by solar warmth of my dear country! But …in all probability, we live in a century too little advanced, and too near the infancy of science, to see such an art brought in our time to its perfection”

Benjamin Franklin, Tx

"Doctors & Shamans Were The First Transhumanists

Some may seem very skeptical at seeing Shamans listed as transhumanists. But to us a belief in a metaphysical is not a prerequisite for holding to a transhumanist bent.

The true question is should we as humans accept our physical bodies’ present limitations?

Medicine has always said no. To us, any attempt to extend human life is at its heart a transhumanist effort. Any attempt to delay death or thwart it, is a transhumanist effort."

That's claiming a lot of ground ... but that's interesting in itself






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If preservation by Madeira worked ... I would sign up! ;-)

I was going to have a Viking funeral and be burned in the middle of a lake

But now I'm going to try Franklin's method with something stronger - maybe Jack D ... If it doesn't work, it'll be a hell of a Wake!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[smcder]

IIRC Streiber asked his "Visitors" what gives you the right to take me from my bed, to frighten me and my family

That was their reply

@Soupie @ufology

What do you think of this principle?

"The ability to do a thing is all the right you need to do so."

- Whitley Streiber


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk