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Sun 17th Jan 2010 - John Carpenter on Leonard Stringfield
- Thread starter Gareth
- Start date
Free episodes:
I got a letter from Carpenter that, I think, should close the books on this issue. I sent him a copy of Tim Beckley's recollections of the phone call with Cooper, and I got this response:
So let's not criticize Carpenter any further about this. We all make mistakes, and he was just recalling a conference that occurred years earlier.
Doesn't anyone care that it has been alleged that he sold 130 to 140 of his abduction case files to Bigelow for "$14,000?"
I can't believe that no one has commented about this! Ouch!
Aww, nevermind... have him back on and let DB loose on him, I suppose...
I sure do care, but it wasn't brought up on the show, so it'll have to wait for another day.
ghoul
Skilled Investigator
Pssst....
"http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:www.theblackvault.com+filetype
df+leonard+stringfield+%22status+report%22&start=20&sa=N"They were in old MUFON Journals. Some of the links are to text mentioning that you can purchase the docs from MUFON, however I found the journal with status report V pretty quickly. I'll bet the others are out there too. Maybe archived on the MUFON site?
Status Report V starts on page 10 here
http://www.theblackvault.com/encyclopedia/documents/MUFON/Journals/1989/January_1989.pdf
Double Nought Spy
May I please go back to the zoo now?
Kewal! Thanks.
Status Report V, which ghoul has linked there, has a really good page or two of introduction which might clear up some confusion about what Stringfield was doing and his relationship to the information he brought to light.
Status Report V, which ghoul has linked there, has a really good page or two of introduction which might clear up some confusion about what Stringfield was doing and his relationship to the information he brought to light.
drsamisaladin
Paranormal Novice
What might be overlooked in this discussion is the fact that more than one American astronaut has gone on record making preposterous, unsubstantiated claims about extraterrestrials and UFOs. From Europe I have listened to these claims on Internet podcasts and have been dismayed at how so many people accept as gospel truth something said by people simply (or largely) because they are in positions of "authority" or respect. On one podcast, the interviewee reacted to an American astronaut's assertion that a number of extraterrestrial species were presently on earth with an almost mystical, religious enthusiasm, saying something like, "Wow, cold chills ran down my spine when I heard an American astronaut confirm that ET has visited us repeatedly, that they are among us." I do not usually like naming names, so I will just say all one has to do to know the facts and details on this matter is to search the Internet for podcasts interviewing American astronauts on paranormal shows.
Lastly, even if an astronaut did film a UFO landing, it would be an unwarranted leap in logic to conclude that such a UFO must be of extraterrestrial origin.
Almost the entire field of Ufology is permeated by emotional researchers who seemingly want their favorite sci-fi films from childhood to be true after all. In doing this, in hoping and asserting that UFOs are ET spacecraft, these reseachers are perhaps missing a truth far more exotic and exciting than the wildest sci-fi movie.
Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy
Lastly, even if an astronaut did film a UFO landing, it would be an unwarranted leap in logic to conclude that such a UFO must be of extraterrestrial origin.
Almost the entire field of Ufology is permeated by emotional researchers who seemingly want their favorite sci-fi films from childhood to be true after all. In doing this, in hoping and asserting that UFOs are ET spacecraft, these reseachers are perhaps missing a truth far more exotic and exciting than the wildest sci-fi movie.
Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy
AdamI
Skilled Investigator
Two very excellent points.
One thing that bothers me about this field is the undue special "credibility license" given to people with links to government, military, or NASA.
When you really think about it objectively, an astronaut is just a pilot. I would trust a pilot to be observent and describe what they see better than, say, a shoe salesman, but I do not give them a special pass on everything they say. John Lear was a pilot too, and he was one of the biggest BS artists we've ever seen.
Military people are also not beyond reproach, as we've discovered in more mundane areas like... say... the Iraq war.
Finally, government lies routinely. We know this. They could be lying about having captured alien craft, or they could be lying to create the impression that they have captured alien craft for some unknown reason such as psy-ops experimentation. Or "they" could just be independent people within government pulling our leg. Government is a lot less organized and monolithic than people think. As with NASA and the military, just because someone works with government does not mean they are credible, sane, or trustworthy.
Mentally I've really thrown away all the rumors. There is a body of evidence and there are some credible sightings with multiple witnesses or multiple sensors. Other than that, we don't know what's going on.
One of the myths that we have to get beyond, IMHO, is the myth of government/military types being more credible than your average person. It's just not so.
Good points, but I think the important thing about "military types" is their supposed credibility as observers, particularly when they are observing things that fit within their field of expertise, such as pilots describing strange flying objects.
When it comes to politically-related comments, just assume it's all lies, and you'll probably be right.
When it comes to politically-related comments, just assume it's all lies, and you'll probably be right.
drsamisaladin
Paranormal Novice
Dear Mr. Steinberg,
I apologize if I gave the wrong impression; I certainly would not question a pilot's or astronaut's trained skill in observation techniques. I was of course only stating that anyone in any position of authority should not be believed just because of their position or iconic status when they make unsubstantiated claims about ETs being among us.
Keep up your very good work Sir.
Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy
---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
Dear AdamI,
Thank you for your kind compliment, it is appreciated. I agree with your response. I myself have been surrounded by military and intelligence people all my life (from more than one country), who have shared with me amazing stories about UFOs, stories I would not make public because such stories by their very nature cannot be substantiated, and so they would only make the field of Ufology more deplorable than it already is--and Ufology is deplorable and has been since the 1950s, with few exceptions indeed. While I believe some of what has been shared with me, more importantly I have come to the conclusion based on personal interaction with military and intelligence people that they can be just like anyone in society, subject to the same delusions, wishful thinking, and even insanity that sometimes afflicts the general population. And they can and do at times jump to conclusions unwarranted by the evidence. Another basic conclusion I have based on these interactions is that no government knows what UFOs are; they have data, but not understanding. More speculatively, I suspect that if there are ETs on some distant planet, even super-advanced ETs, they too will probably see unexplainable, mysterious lights in the sky, what we call UFOs, and they would be just as perplexed as we are over the phenomenon.
Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy
I apologize if I gave the wrong impression; I certainly would not question a pilot's or astronaut's trained skill in observation techniques. I was of course only stating that anyone in any position of authority should not be believed just because of their position or iconic status when they make unsubstantiated claims about ETs being among us.
Keep up your very good work Sir.
Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy
---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------
Dear AdamI,
Thank you for your kind compliment, it is appreciated. I agree with your response. I myself have been surrounded by military and intelligence people all my life (from more than one country), who have shared with me amazing stories about UFOs, stories I would not make public because such stories by their very nature cannot be substantiated, and so they would only make the field of Ufology more deplorable than it already is--and Ufology is deplorable and has been since the 1950s, with few exceptions indeed. While I believe some of what has been shared with me, more importantly I have come to the conclusion based on personal interaction with military and intelligence people that they can be just like anyone in society, subject to the same delusions, wishful thinking, and even insanity that sometimes afflicts the general population. And they can and do at times jump to conclusions unwarranted by the evidence. Another basic conclusion I have based on these interactions is that no government knows what UFOs are; they have data, but not understanding. More speculatively, I suspect that if there are ETs on some distant planet, even super-advanced ETs, they too will probably see unexplainable, mysterious lights in the sky, what we call UFOs, and they would be just as perplexed as we are over the phenomenon.
Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy
SarkozyAide
Skilled Investigator
So......I just finished the episode. What's the status on the Cooper "signed statement" being scanned. Is it on the web yet?
FWIW, I don't think this was one of the better episodes. This guy Carpenter just came across as totally clueless.
FWIW, I don't think this was one of the better episodes. This guy Carpenter just came across as totally clueless.
It is scanned, and is in an earlier page on this thread. It doesn't confirm what Carpenter said, that Cooper witnessed this alleged landing. His film crew did and took the pictures, then bringing the evidence to Cooper, and Carpenter accepts the correct version of the event.
Gareth
Nothin' to see here
I don't think anyone here would jump to that conclusion.
Does anyone really care about lights in the sky? The question is, would super advanced ETs on distant planets see structured craft in their skies?
Schuyler
Misanthrope
Thank you, Gareth!
Sami, now this is just speculation on my part, but I think most everyone on these forums has studied these issues for some time. We may not all be post-docs in research, but we are not neophytes either. I think you could save yourself some grief if you just assumed we aren't all ignorant of our subject, if you catch my drift.
drsamisaladin
Paranormal Novice
Dear Dr. Schuyler,
Point well-taken, and thank you. I would not assume ignorance of all; perhaps I should just not care so much about the few who simply jump to unwarranted conclusions about ETs. The Paracast show and its forum members are the best I have been able to find out there in Internet-land, so I will continue to assume the best of the overwhelming majority. It is I who am the neophyte on these forums, so I appreciate your kind comments and feedback.
S. Saladin
Pisa, Italy
---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------
Dear Gareth,
Thank you for your feedback. I see now that I have not been sufficiently separating the Paracast forum members from all the preposterous things I have heard recently on various American Internet paranormal podcasts. (You see, I started listening to such programs a few months ago, so I am writing under the influence of all that deluge).
And that is very insightful of you to ask the rhetorical question you did. My answer is that most likely a super advanced ET species most likely would not interpret strange lights in the sky as craft, because it might be that such a species would not even possess craft--they would probably have alternative means of travel.
And that leads me to a thought that comes to me now and then: Why do we think that an advanced TE species would have to possess technology? In other words, might we not be overestimating the overall value and worth of technology? After all, look at all of its negative aspects, such as pollution, weapons of mass destruction, etc. Perhaps an advanced ET species might value a non-technological way of life. We think of God in our own image, we seem to do the same with ETs.
Dr. Sami Saladin,
Pisa, Italy
Point well-taken, and thank you. I would not assume ignorance of all; perhaps I should just not care so much about the few who simply jump to unwarranted conclusions about ETs. The Paracast show and its forum members are the best I have been able to find out there in Internet-land, so I will continue to assume the best of the overwhelming majority. It is I who am the neophyte on these forums, so I appreciate your kind comments and feedback.
S. Saladin
Pisa, Italy
---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:50 PM ----------
Dear Gareth,
Thank you for your feedback. I see now that I have not been sufficiently separating the Paracast forum members from all the preposterous things I have heard recently on various American Internet paranormal podcasts. (You see, I started listening to such programs a few months ago, so I am writing under the influence of all that deluge).
And that is very insightful of you to ask the rhetorical question you did. My answer is that most likely a super advanced ET species most likely would not interpret strange lights in the sky as craft, because it might be that such a species would not even possess craft--they would probably have alternative means of travel.
And that leads me to a thought that comes to me now and then: Why do we think that an advanced TE species would have to possess technology? In other words, might we not be overestimating the overall value and worth of technology? After all, look at all of its negative aspects, such as pollution, weapons of mass destruction, etc. Perhaps an advanced ET species might value a non-technological way of life. We think of God in our own image, we seem to do the same with ETs.
Dr. Sami Saladin,
Pisa, Italy
Wasn't too impressed with this round of questioning, in fact its the first time in several months that i didnt listen to a paracast intereview until the end. Carpenter, while having his part in the whole unfolding abduction research and probably a good doctor and a nice guy, is just too uncritical in his approach and information gathering. This stringfield thing just reminds me of what others have said of Philip Corso, or the way Dolan talks about HIS militiary contacts and so on. In fact it sounds like all these guys are literally seduced by these "handlers" and the whole prospect of them giving out special information.
I liked the way david handed out details like stringfield being a high level PR guy, but Carpenter who just didnt seem like that could be an issue at all, just kept describing how gracious this guy was and so forth. Uhm, hello: Thats exactly why you should be suspect of these people - its because they are so sly and good at convincing that they got so far in that type of carreer.
Its disappointing that all these games lead researchers around by the nose, but on the other hand who can really blame them.
I liked the way david handed out details like stringfield being a high level PR guy, but Carpenter who just didnt seem like that could be an issue at all, just kept describing how gracious this guy was and so forth. Uhm, hello: Thats exactly why you should be suspect of these people - its because they are so sly and good at convincing that they got so far in that type of carreer.
Its disappointing that all these games lead researchers around by the nose, but on the other hand who can really blame them.
Xylo
Paranormal Adept
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I am under the impression that we have absolutely zero verifiable primary sources, if it's anybody else we are automatically suspicious...but since it's Stringfield, it's okay?
Sorry but third hand discussion of second hand tales told by unverifiable sources of their first hand encounters are not believable, in my opinion.
AdamI
Skilled Investigator
Yup, I felt the same way... especially some of the things that were claimed that didn't make sense (dig through the thread for my comments on the bigger-inside-than-outside claim).
I dismiss everything in the UFO subject that is not first-hand and from credible and preferably multiple witnesses or other evidence. There is just way too much bullshit hearsay, sensationalism, hoaxes, and apparently organized disinformation in this area.
I have gotten the impression for a while that at least when it comes to the UFO subject that the Paracast is a "project" whose goal is to sift through the field and try to get a sense for what's credible. The list appears to be pretty short... still interesting, but short.