Television Show - Extreme Paranormal

[methshin]

The GH guys have shown that they don't have a clue of how to actually use the technology they deploy - they have no grasp of level normalization, audio noise reduction, visual enhancement or analysis methods, and their use of IR and EMF tech is sorta silly. And yeah, they're in it for the $$$, and that's pretty much the Bill Birnes School of Integrity degree they're waving. I stopped being interested in the show a couple of seasons ago.

dB

Maybe they'll toss you some $$$ for a primer on how to properly use their equipment.

Of course they are in it for the cash, but it's not like Paul Kimball's show isn't a business adventure either, not to say that's the primary reason for him doing the show, but it is definitely A reason. I don't think we can hold people wanting to make cash against them, we all need money in todays day and age, and if we were to judge all the people in this field on that basis, well, we'd certainly have far fewer credible sources around.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

You could start by checking out:

Ghost Hunters Fan Site | Ghost Hunters for Skeptical Viewers and looking at the "Skeptic's Library" on the right hand menu, or just go to youtube and search for a few keywords like "Ghost hunters debunk collar" etc. Apparently that site has quite a few podcasts as well so I'm going to listen to them now. Some of them are even devoted to the EMF gear etc.

Some guy went to great lengths to recreate Grant in 3D lol I guess he wants to be a forensics animator when he grows up. But anyway that and and several other clips by various people all show good slow-motion examples of various "incidents" that are highly suspect.

If you think about the whole show for a second it becomes clear that they HAVE to be full of shit because pretty much every place they go now they have SOMETHING happen. Even after staying only one night. if it was really THAT easy and predictable to record true paranormal activity wouldn't they request to stay for longer and get get better and better proof? A lot of those places are abandoned so no one would care if they stayed a week or more. Or wouldn't they bring in tons of other experts and equipment like real scientist would?

No, instead they get extraordinary footage of a shadow person etc and then its "Thanks we had a great night.. gotta go now and move on to the next case" Seems like they arent too interested in blowing a major case wide open once and for all. If the paranormal was that mundane.. then it would no longer be paranormal anymore and would simply be "normal"

Imagine SETI getting a clear signal at a certain location in deep space, then they say "Well that was cool.. lets move on and check out some more locations now" Or imagine being able to predict/encounter/summon UFOS every time you looked.. oh wait Greer does that already.. well there ya go...

I'm not saying there can't be such things as "ghosts" only that I don't believe Ghost Hunters is out to uncover the truth in an honest way.

 

[methshin]

You could start by checking out:

Ghost Hunters Fan Site | Ghost Hunters for Skeptical Viewers and looking at the "Skeptic's Library" on the right hand menu, or just go to youtube and search for a few keywords like "Ghost hunters debunk collar" etc.

Some guy went to great lengths to recreate Grant in 3D lol I guess he wants to be a forensics animator when he grows up. But anyway that and and several other clips by various people all show good slow-motion examples of various "incidents" that are highly suspect.

If you think about the whole show for a second it becomes clear that they HAVE to be full of shit because pretty much every place they go now they have SOMETHING happen. Even after staying only one night. if it was really THAT easy and predictable to record true paranormal activity wouldn't they request to stay for longer and get get better and better proof? Ghost would be proven without a shadow of a doubt to everyone if it was that easy to get real activity on demand. Or wouldn't they bring in tons of other experts and equipment like real scientist would?

No, instead they get extraordinary footage of a shadow person etc and then its "Thanks we had a great night.. gotta go now and move on to the next case" Seems like they arent too interested in blowing a major case wide open once and for all.

Imagine SETI getting a clear signal at a certain location in deep space, then they say "Well that was cool.. lets move on and check out some more locations now"

I'll check that site out in my spare time, thanks for the directions.

There are a couple things I would like to say regarding the always finding evidence stuff. I've seen quite a few episodes where they don't catch a damn thing. Also, I'd be surprised if every site they go to actually makes the show. I think I recall Kimball saying that there were a few locations that weren't used in his show.

Also, they have returned to the more compelling locations, so it's not like they aren't trying to blow some cases open. Besides that, I don't think their prerogative is to prove the existence of "ghosts". As far as they are concerned, these things exist and you either believe or you don't. What they are trying to accomplish is what locations are in fact haunted, or have spiritual activity. They often point out that due to time constraints and whatnot, that there might be activity that they didn't capture, but would like to return to the site in the future.

 

[tyder001]

Well said damndirtyape. I personally do beleive in the before/afterlife. However, to say "I think we have something" and then just move on? Have to agree with ya on that one. Also, the "hat" episode I mentioned in an earlier post. If you have something then work to prove it cause moving on just means it's time for the next "show."

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Yea it's a joke site. Check out the proof of levitation LMAO

Okay, I'm linking this site to my own. This is some funny sh*t!! Yes, Mr. Ape, the proof of levitation had me laughing so hard at work people were walking over to see what I was looking at!

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

I'll check that site out in my spare time, thanks for the directions.

There are a couple things I would like to say regarding the always finding evidence stuff. I've seen quite a few episodes where they don't catch a damn thing. Also, I'd be surprised if every site they go to actually makes the show. I think I recall Kimball saying that there were a few locations that weren't used in his show.

Also, they have returned to the more compelling locations, so it's not like they aren't trying to blow some cases open. Besides that, I don't think their prerogative is to prove the existence of "ghosts". As far as they are concerned, these things exist and you either believe or you don't. What they are trying to accomplish is what locations are in fact haunted, or have spiritual activity. They often point out that due to time constraints and whatnot, that there might be activity that they didn't capture, but would like to return to the site in the future.

Fair enough.. if you notice in my original post I used the phrase "pretty much every place they go now" because I have noticed over the years the show has become more predictable, more rote. Perhaps once upon a time, early on, they tried to be objective, but after all the fame and money perhaps they felt enormous pressure to deliver compelling TV.. I guess the only people who know for sure are Grant and Jason.

As for it not being their prerogative to prove the existence of ghosts ( I think you meant the word "imperative") Sure that may the case.. but if you were an investigator and got incredible evidence, would YOU simply says thanks and move along? Some reserachers spend their entire careers on ONE case.. these guys magically get compelling evidence time and time again with no real enthusiam to follow up then and there. Something doesn't add up.

Imagine a UFO hunter leaving a case in the middle of a big flap. Or filming a UFO for a few nights in a row then getting bored and turning off the camera on the third night. If these guys were billed as psychic mediums, with nothing to prove, I could believe they might do that.. but they are called Ghost HUNTERS because they ARE ostensibly trying to get to the truth scientifically by capturing evidence.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Oh, so much to rant, so little space!

Ghost Hunters. Seasons one and two are worth watching. That's back before they, Jason Hawes and Grant Wilson, sold out. That's back when, yes, they wanted to be entertaining, but they also wanted to show evidence of paranormal activity. There were whole episodes where they found nothing. There were investigations where they found suspected evidence then went back and were able to debunk/explain what it REALLY was. There were investigations where they utilized newer gear on an experimental basis. That was a different show with different people than what you see today.

Now Jason and Grant are 100% entertainers (I've preached this sermon before.) They do fake evidence. How can I tell? Well for 2.3 years I've been investigating paranormal phenomena in the discipline of ghost hunting and I've learned to use the best piece of equipment we ghost hunters have; the bullshit-'o-meter. You watch the movement, body position, and, psychologically, you measure reaction of the experiencer. This is the same methodology police investigators use when interviewing suspects and witnesses. You can tell by behavior if they're lying, and I've seen a lot of evidence of lying on that show. I'll never forget seeing a post on their website where TAPS was looking for an electrical engineer (this was about 18 months ago.) Now what can you do with an electrical engineer? Oh, all sorts of fun stuff that looks very paranormal on camera; things like run a rig up the back of your jacket, or rig a switch on a KII meter that will turn a light on and off from about 8 to 10 feet away.

EVP's that are more-than-questionable. "Compelling" evidence caught in only 3 hours of investigation with 16+ production people bumbling around the site. Full bodied apparitions seen when the camera's pointing the other way or conveniently tucked around a corner. DamnDirtyApe (DDA) and David are 100% correct in their assessments of this show.

Now before I'm accused of being a debunker and skeptic again, let me say this; I used to be the biggest fan of Ghost Hunters out there. My first ghost hunt experience was side-by-side with Grant Wilson himself (and Kris Williams, too, who I tend to think is cute but that's just me). I had the TAPS jacket and TAPS hat. When I wore them, people were walking up to me asking if I worked for TAPS and I had to explain I was just a fan. When I started becoming far more experienced in paranormal investigations and more attuned to the scientific techniques that were needed during these investigations, I slowly learned and realized that Jason and Grant were full of bunk themselves. It didn't help that the show changed, that they changed. They bought the Spalding Inn and used their clout to "prove" that the Inn's haunted, which translates in to "retirement plan," plain and simple. I have gone through the biggest case of hero-loss you can possibly imagine, but I view it as a growing experience and something I needed to do; I needed to grow up and realize what they were, and what they're doing. It's not admitted enough in paranormal research but I'll do it: I was wrong. I was wrong to idolize them.

Yes, they started off innocent enough (again, seasons 1 and 2), but now they are the Bill Knell of ghost hunting. There...I said it.

Jason and Grant are to Ghost Hunting what Bill Knell is to UFO research.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Personally, I like Ghost Hunters. Not because it's a great show, but because they are so much better than all the other crap out there.

Check out Ghost Lab. They're new and a bit more critical thinking than most other shows. They've not jumped the shark or sold out.

Yet.

Also, if you're looking for serious paranormal research? Don't watch TV. Do it yourself. If you get your serious paranormal fix from TV you're going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[methshin]

Check out Ghost Lab. They're new and a bit more critical thinking than most other shows. They've not jumped the shark or sold out.

Yet.

Also, if you're looking for serious paranormal research? Don't watch TV. Do it yourself. If you get your serious paranormal fix from TV you're going to be sorely disappointed.

I really don't have the time to get into doing the research myself, I'm in the process of taking over a family business, I dedicate a lot of time to guitar and family, and really don't have any contacts in my area to do this sort of thing. I'd like to get out there, but as things stand in my life right now, I just can't.

Haven't seen the episode with the hotel they bought, I catch whatever episodes are aired on OLN when there isn't hockey on.

And for the record, Kris Williams is smokin' hot and my gf is none too pleased about my opinion on this matter. This is normally the look I get

 

[Jeff Crowell]

You could start by checking out:

Ghost Hunters Fan Site | Ghost Hunters for Skeptical Viewers and looking at the "Skeptic's Library" on the right hand menu, or just go to youtube and search for a few keywords like "Ghost hunters debunk collar" etc. Apparently that site has quite a few podcasts as well so I'm going to listen to them now. Some of them are even devoted to the EMF gear etc.

Thank you for this, DDA. I'm perusing it now and find the site quite revealing.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

Thank you for this, DDA. I'm perusing it now and find the site quite revealing.

Yea I just came across it - haven't fully vetted it myself. But they explain they aren't a bashing site, just very skeptical.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

And for the record, Kris Williams is smokin' hot and my gf is none too pleased about my opinion on this matter. This is normally the look I get

Yikes. I usually only get a look like that from my wife when I mention anal.

 

[methshin]

Yikes. I usually only get a look like that from my wife when I mention anal.

That's why you don't mention anal and just go for it. Hard to give a dirty look to someone that's behind you.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Of course they are in it for the cash, but it's not like Paul Kimball's show isn't a business adventure either, not to say that's the primary reason for him doing the show, but it is definitely A reason.

Yes, quite so - it is the film and television industry, after all. For people who don't like the commercial aspect, all that I can say is "too bad." You're better off making your own home videos then, and sticking them up on YouTube, which would make you Kal Korff.

Having said that, there are good shows and bad ones. A lot of it depends on the amount of independence you have as a producer. I can't speak for Ghost Hunters or the others, but I suspect that the guys you see on camera aren't in total control of what gets delivered. I am (with Ghost Cases, in conjunction with my partner, Dale Stevens), because the network trusts us and lets us do what we want - a trust that I've earned over ten years of delivering good work.

A lot of it also depends on the people, and what they're looking to accomplish. Yes, I make money, but I'm far from rich - one car, two bedroom apartment, no real savings, lots of debt. I do okay, but I could have made a lot more money as a lawyer, or in the corporate sector. I do what I do primarily because I enjoy it; the money is secondary (let me stress that secondary does not mean "unimportant" ). Others have different agendas, and that's fine too.

In the end, it all comes down to looking at yourself in the mirror and being satisfied with what you've done. I am. That doesn't mean everyone is going to like what I've done, but that's fine. Indeed, I enjoy the critiques, and provoking discussion.

The one thing I can absolutely guarantee, however, is that what I do is real. No faking, no acting - 100% authentic. I've earned that reputation as well.

Paul

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

Yes, quite so - it is the film and television industry, after all. For people who don't like the commercial aspect, all that I can say is "too bad." You're better off making your own home videos then, and sticking them up on YouTube, which would make you Kal Korff.

Having said that, there are good shows and bad ones. A lot of it depends on the amount of independence you have as a producer. I can't speak for Ghost Hunters or the others, but I suspect that the guys you see on camera aren't in total control of what gets delivered. I am (with Ghost Cases, in conjunction with my partner, Dale Stevens), because the network trusts us and lets us do what we want - a trust that I've earned over ten years of delivering good work.

A lot of it also depends on the people, and what they're looking to accomplish. Yes, I make money, but I'm far from rich - one car, two bedroom apartment, no real savings, lots of debt. I do okay, but I could have made a lot more money as a lawyer, or in the corporate sector. I do what I do primarily because I enjoy it; the money is secondary (let me stress that secondary does not mean "unimportant" ). Others have different agendas, and that's fine too.

In the end, it all comes down to looking at yourself in the mirror and being satisfied with what you've done. I am. That doesn't mean everyone is going to like what I've done, but that's fine. Indeed, I enjoy the critiques, and provoking discussion.

The one thing I can absolutely guarantee, however, is that what I do is real. No faking, no acting - 100% authentic. I've earned that reputation as well.

Paul

But if the studio came to you and said:

"Hey Paul we really love the show and all blah blah blah..but the number have come in and things aren't looking too well for next season right now. Perhaps if the show had a little more.. you know.. zing to it we might have an easier time getting it OK'd for next season. You know.. people want to see more.. um.. ghosts in their ghost show. You know how it is... Your show is THIS close to blowing up and making it huge.. I'm not telling you what to do of course.. I'm just saying the distributor is getting a bit nervous."

What would your answer be? I think we know how Grant and Jason answered that sort of temptation/pressure. Not saying things went down with them exactly like that, just saying I can see that sort of unspoken expectation/pressure eventually working its way into a situation. I'm guessing that execs typically don't give a rat's ass about scientific integrity vs. ratings and money.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

Yes, quite so - it is the film and television industry, after all. For people who don't like the commercial aspect, all that I can say is "too bad." You're better off making your own home videos then, and sticking them up on YouTube, which would make you Kal Korff.

Having said that, there are good shows and bad ones. A lot of it depends on the amount of independence you have as a producer. I can't speak for Ghost Hunters or the others, but I suspect that the guys you see on camera aren't in total control of what gets delivered. I am (with Ghost Cases, in conjunction with my partner, Dale Stevens), because the network trusts us and lets us do what we want - a trust that I've earned over ten years of delivering good work.

A lot of it also depends on the people, and what they're looking to accomplish. Yes, I make money, but I'm far from rich - one car, two bedroom apartment, no real savings, lots of debt. I do okay, but I could have made a lot more money as a lawyer, or in the corporate sector. I do what I do primarily because I enjoy it; the money is secondary (let me stress that secondary does not mean "unimportant" ). Others have different agendas, and that's fine too.

In the end, it all comes down to looking at yourself in the mirror and being satisfied with what you've done. I am. That doesn't mean everyone is going to like what I've done, but that's fine. Indeed, I enjoy the critiques, and provoking discussion.

The one thing I can absolutely guarantee, however, is that what I do is real. No faking, no acting - 100% authentic. I've earned that reputation as well.

Paul

Anybody in paranormal research and investigation knows money is always an issue. I think anybody who does this walks a fine line between making enough cash to keep going, and going well, and doing this just for the profit. We have to ask ourselves are we making money for the paranormal research or are we doing paranormal research just to make the money. It's a system and when those priorities reverse is when you've sold out.

I used to think that way; paranormal investigators selling crap just to make a quick buck, then I realized that they have expenses, too. You must offset these expenses or you won't have the $ to do what you want to do. In the case of TV shows $ = ratings so to a degree it has to be mostly entertaining with a little educational. It's a fine line, it sucks, but I completely agree with Paul in that you can tell the shows that have crossed over that line of decency.

Speaking for myself, Paul, you have nothing to defend with me. I know you don't fake.....you're clearly one of the good guys. TAPS is your polar opposite.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Paul Kimball]

What would your answer be?

No. Not to make something more sensational. But then I'm good at what I do, which means I've almost always balanced the factual stuff with the entertainment stuff.

In ten years only once have I been faced with a network that demanded I make changes to a film or television series. I made the changes in that case because the network was right - sometimes, sober second thought from people who know what they're doing is a good thing.

I'm guessing that execs typically don't give a rat's ass about scientific integrity vs. ratings and money

You're right. But why should they? Vox populi - and the majority of the viewers seem to like what the networks give them. Ghost Hunters, as I recall, is pretty popular with the masses.

Paul

 

[Paul Kimball]

Speaking for myself, Paul, you have nothing to defend with me. I know you don't fake.....you're clearly one of the good guys.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks!

 

[Jose Collado]

Jose. Whatever happened to the "Haunted Australia" that you were a part of? Did it make it to TV (channel)?]

The show is still playing somewhere in Australia. It's on a 5 year broadcast contract. We filmed an entire season and then pulled the plug. The stress of dealing with the paranormal crowd was enough for us to kill the show at it's peak. I can honestly say, I'll never do television again. I'll certainly never do anything Paranormal related again. I'll stick to features.

It's a shame that there could potentially be something to the whole paranormal scene and yet it's being cheapened by bullshit TV.

Yea it's a joke site. Check out the proof of levitation LMAO

I laughed when someone sent me the link. Then I checked with the people I worked with on the networks. It's genuine but I can't say what network is taking it on. I can safely and publicly assume it may be on cable. Seeing as the network that is producing it also produces for free to air and cable. If it was a spoof I'd probably have a little respect for the guys but I've emailed them directly and got quite a nasty response.

 

[DamnDirtyApe]

Then I checked with the people I worked with on the networks. It's genuine but I can't say what network is taking it on. I can safely and publicly assume it may be on cable. Seeing as the network that is producing it also produces for free to air and cable. If it was a spoof I'd probably have a little respect for the guys but I've emailed them directly and got quite a nasty response.

No that's a joke site.. perhaps the network is doing a spoof comedy show. If they wrote you back a nasty note they are just pulling your leg for all its worth.