THANK YOU Ufology, Stonehart and Sue -- You all rocked!

[Polterwurst]

Mr. Kimball, I'm neither very religious nor very political, but Your Word in God's Ear.

As for the show, I think it showed in the first segment or two that stonehart and Sue were a little nervous, but then the discussion got off the ground.

Thanks for asking my questions, Chris. The ones I directed at stoneart about the possible haunting in his house and his sightings of light objects (which I guess happened much earlier) were meant as two completely separate subjects, but no big deal. Actually, it probably serves me right for missing out on the opportunity to ask these questions myself. On the other hand that might have resulted in me interrogating stonehart for most of the show...

@stonehart: I wasn't referring to the so-called "orbs" in photos which are, as you said, probably in most cases caused by dust particles or water droplets. I meant actual light phenomena (mostly small glowing spheres) sometimes observed by eye-witnesses during Poltergeist or haunting type cases. We had Dr Barry Taff on the paracast, for example, talking about the "Entity" case, in which these featured prominently. And Linda Godfrey mentioned that she saw one where a witness directly beside her saw a full-fledged apparition.

Regarding natural explanations, I was convinced that you had looked into all kinds of mundane explanations already. Like wind drafts or passing trucks that could cause doors to open or things to fall down, strong electromagnetic fields that could lead to sounds coming from metal surfaces, allegedly even to hallucinations. Infrasound is supposed to cause a weird "gut feeling". Vic Tandy said that they could even lead to visual hallucinations (grey phantom-like shadows in his case) by causing the eyeballs to vibrate, but that's never been proven.
It's not unusual that haunting or Poltergeist type phenomena are reported from normal houses without any "scary or violent" history. Even modern or newly built ones. I guess it speaks for your sceptical mind that you are paddling back a little, after posting that you are now less dismissive towards paranormal phenomena, but I always wonder if that's not because the witnesses feel the "pressure of disbelief" from the people around them, whereas inside they remain convinced that there is no simple mundane explanation for what they experienced.

As for my questions about psychics, I strongly suggest to look into the work of Julie Beischel ("Among Mediums", for example is a small affordable book that details her medium research) and of Prof. Gary Schwartz. There is no question in my mind that there is anomalous information transfer taking place. It's neither very reliable nor will the die-hard-sceptics ever accept it, but it's there. And some of these cases are hard to explain without accepting the possibilty that "something survives".

I don't think there are crimes that have been solved by "psychic detectives", because that's for the police to do, amassing evidence and securing physical traces etc., but it does seem that there is a whole lot of (mostly former) police officers saying that they have been instrumental and did come up with leads that turned out to be very helpful. Too many to just ignore them all, in my opinion.

I hope that Chris can get Amy Allan on the paracast. Allison Dubois would be a dream come true for me, of course, Gene. In either case, that would mean some quite lengthy question posts from me, of course, so you have been warned .

And I think a special paracast episode about New Zealand and Australian UFO and paranormal cases is a damn good idea, too. I love these kind of international shows.

It's just good to hear these intelligent and discerning voices from all over the world speaking about these topics, because around here, everyone seems to want to tell me that you have to be a kook, plain stupid or crazy to even think about them. Shows like these prove how much of an empty bias that is.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Stopped listening after the political comments in the first few minutes. Unsub'd from Paracast + too. Done.

Seriously? I'm not interested in politics really, and certainly not U.S politics but there being a couple of mins of commentary in one episode seems hardly a reason to abandon the whole show. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

Why not just FF a minute or two? Same with people complaining about the ads - all mp3/audio players have functions to jump forward so it's hardly like anyone is forced to listen to hours of ads against their will. I'm old enough to remember having only 3 TV channels available in the UK and this was before home video recorders, so when the adverts came on, you either watched them, had a quick read of the paper, or, more likely, put the kettle on for a cup of tea.
It was actually a well-documented phenomenon that the demand for electricity in the UK used to spike during the TV adverts - because of all the kettles being boiled! To think that the National Electricity Grid Engineers had to plan for roughly how many people might boil a kettle because bearing in mind there only being 3 channels, often when certain popular TV programmes were on, enormous numbers of people would be watching the same channel - like 20 million, in a population of 56 million!

But anyway Icculus, I'm really sorry you feel so strongly that you wish to dispose of the Paracast. Even if something annoyed you, I would have hoped it was good enough the rest of the time for you to forgive the odd transgression, I mean, you don't put a child up for adoption cos they mess up!
I don't know if you were annoyed just to hear any political discussion whatsoever, regardless of leanings, or it was that someone seemed to be speaking from a point of view of one identifiable side?

Sorry you have to go but to be frank, I think it's an over-reaction?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

OK here's a crazy idea: Would anyone be interested in participating in a USI spinoff podcast dedicated mainly to serious ufology and critical thinking with respect to the paranormal? I'll coordinate and record it, and with @Gene Steinberg's approval, The Paracast Forum will work for forum content, and we can offer the recorded shows to Gene to include as bonus material for After The Paracast subscribers. I'm thinking perhaps bi-weekly so that participants have time to do some preparation on designated topics. Thoughts?

I don't know what I might contribute but for what it's worth, I think it is a great idea - I'd help spread the word for sure.

 

[stonehart]

Mr. Kimball, I'm neither very religious nor very political, but Your Word in God's Ear.

As for the show, I think it showed in the first segment or two that stonehart and Sue were a little nervous, but then the discussion got off the ground.

Thanks for asking my questions, Chris. The ones I directed at stoneart about the possible haunting in his house and his sightings of light objects (which I guess happened much earlier) were meant as two completely separate subjects, but no big deal. Actually, it probably serves me right for missing out on the opportunity to ask these questions myself. On the other hand that might have resulted in me interrogating stonehart for most of the show...

@stonehart: I wasn't referring to the so-called "orbs" in photos which are, as you said, probably in most cases caused by dust particles or water droplets. I meant actual light phenomena (mostly small glowing spheres) sometimes observed by eye-witnesses during Poltergeist or haunting type cases. We had Dr Barry Taff on the paracast, for example, talking about the "Entity" case, in which these featured prominently. And Linda Godfrey mentioned that she saw one where a witness directly beside her saw a full-fledged apparition.

As for natural explanations, I was convinced that you had looked into all kinds of mundane explanations already. Like wind drafts or passing trucks that could cause doors to open or things to fall down, strong electromagnetic fields that could lead to sounds coming from metal surfaces, allegedly even to hallucinations. Infrasound is supposed to cause a weird "gut feeling". Vic Tandy said that they could even lead to visual hallucinations (grey phantom-like shadows in his case) by causing the eyeballs to vibrate, but that's never been proven.
It's not unusual that haunting or Poltergeist type phenomana have been reported in mundane households without any history, even newly built ones. I guess it speaks for your sceptical mind that you are paddling back a little, after posting that you are now less dismissive towards paranormal phenomena, but I always wonder if that's not because the witnesses feel the "pressure of disbelief" from the people around them, whereas inside they are quite convinced that there is no simple mundane explanation for what they experienced.

As for my questions about psychics, I strongly suggest to look into the work of Julie Beischel ("Among Mediums", for example is a small affordable book that details her medium research) and of Prof. Gary Schwartz. There is no question in my mind that there is anomalous information transfer taking place. It's neither very reliable nor will the die-hard-sceptics ever accept it, but it's there. And some of these cases are hard to explain without accepting the possibilty that "something survives".

I really hope that Chris can get Amy Allan on the paracast. That would be another lengthy question post for me, of course. And I think a special paracast episode about New Zealand and Australian UFO and paranormal cases is a damn good idea, too. I love these kind of international shows.

It's just good to hear these intelligent and discerning voices from all over the world speaking about these topics, because around here, everyone seems to want to tell me that you have to be a kook, plain stupid or crazy to even think about them. Shows like these prove how much of an empty bias that is.

Sorry I did not cover things so well on the show Polterwurst .. I was nervous as all hell. What I am thinking of doing is starting a closed group and post a log there of things as they happen (I took Chris's idea to heart and it is a good idea).
I will always take a lot of caution when it comes to ghost's etc but I have a far more open mind to the phenomena than I once did.

What I have done is do sound measurements and set up some thermometers around the house... The problem is time my friend as I have a crazy job that has me working most of my waking hours.

 

[stonehart]

I don't know what I might contribute but for what it's worth, I think it is a great idea - I'd help spread the word for sure.

You would be very welcome Goggs

 

[Polterwurst]

What I have done is do sound measurements and set up some thermometers around the house... The problem is time my friend as I have a crazy job that has me working most of my waking hours.

Yeah, I know that feeling. Sorry if my post sounded like I wanted to put you under pressure to prove or disprove anything. Not intended and probably to do with my problems to find the right english words to express myself.

 

[stonehart]

Yeah, I know that feeling. Sorry if my post sounded like I wanted to put you under pressure to prove or disprove anything. Not intended and probably has to do with my problems to find the right english words to express myself.

No problem my friend, I am more mad at myself because I could have presented my case much better on the show... However if I get the chance to do a show again I will be much more relaxed.
I am going to be studying the happenings in my house and post my findings as they turn up, what I need to get are some small Infrared Cameras to monitor some areas of the house and see what I come up with but that will not be for a while yet.

As Chris pointed out we could very well be right on top of a fault line as the city is riddled with them and it could be simple earth tremors or the fact that the area used to be marshlands.

 

[wwkirk]

Great show!
I was impressed to find out about Chris's brother's involvement with Santeria.
I was also impressed with how much experience Chris has had with psychedelics.

 

[Wonder-man]

That was a kind of weird experience in that it was a lot less weird for me than it should have been. Initially I felt like I didn't have much to say and wasn't sure why anyone would care about what my opinions were in the first place. I jotted some ideas and stories ahead of time just in case, but Gene and Chris ran things really effectively and made it very easy to be a guest. So I would encourage other forum posters to belly up to the mike next time the call goes out.

I really enjoyed the fact that we all came from such different perspectives AND there was a haunted house story in there as well. And while I've often had the experience of disagreeing with what other people say on a podcast, this is the first time I've had the opportunity to disagree with something I myself said on a podcast within a couple hours of saying it.

The chat idea and the spinoff podcastlet ideas are both great. Bellgab has spun off numerous user-driven podcastlets and has an active, if somewhat raucous, chat on the ufoship stream that's a lot of fun, so I think that's a good model for increasing engagement. In the meantime, I'm going to try to pin down my ComiCon-conversant, 30th-birthday-bemoaning Sunday morning training partner and pick his brains about attitudes about UFOs and the paranormal among young male underemployed African American animation artists. This will result in Knowledge.

Hello "Sue" sunshine,
Thanks for taking "The Paracast" challenge. If you haven't ever been on radio the idea seems a bit scary, for sure. It was a delight to have you as part of that recent round table discussion and you came across as "yourself"...not strained, not putting on an act...informed, intelligent, thoughtful, and fun-loving. It is probably always a good idea to have some "fall back material handy" that's the mark of a professional, but your 'chime into the conversation remarks' were definitely substantive and well received by the other round table members as well as "your" audience.
I actually think there are many woman who have a legitimate interest in the possible presence of aliens and other 'out of the norm' phenomena, they just may not have the leisure nor desire to pursue that interest when it may be more peripheral to the demands of their day to day lives. I hope your contribution will help Gene, Chris, and the other Paracasters and Paracastettes encourage more future participation by the ladies who are pursuing an interest in some aspect(s) of the various subjects The Paracast covers. Thank you.

 

[Wonder-man]

No problem my friend, I am more mad at myself because I could have presented my case much better on the show... However if I get the chance to do a show again I will be much more relaxed.
I am going to be studying the happenings in my house and post my findings as they turn up, what I need to get are some small Infrared Cameras to monitor some areas of the house and see what I come up with but that will not be for a while yet.

As Chris pointed out we could very well be right on top of a fault line as the city is riddled with them and it could be simple earth tremors or the fact that the area used to be marshlands.

Hello David,
I have a friend who is specifically researching paranormal phenomena associated with fault lines and quake phenomena. I would like to encourage some dialogue between you two. Could you begin by finding out what the geological characteristics are of the land upon which your house and the neighborhood are situated? It turns out that different faults have different quake effect characteristics. He'll need more detail than just the fact that there used to be a swamp there though the presence of underground water can help facilitate smaller quakes. Details about mineral deposits would be most helpful as well as the particular type of fault zone you are living with. There will be specific measuring equipment that might prove helpful and he can guide you as to how to obtain that...should you wish to. What is the best way for him to contact you? He is informally working with other scientists on an earthquake prediction system. So is another group of alt energy researchers from Cal. Would you like me to send you their info? There is some video about the work they are doing.

 

[Wonder-man]

Hats off to Dave, Randall & Sue for a fab Listener Roundtable--10th anniversary show taping!
This brings me to an idea: perhaps we should create a scheduled chat session to discuss current shows. Have a moderator and someone to take notes to capture ideas that might pop up and be discussed... Just a thought !

So who will be the next guest and where is the forum to post questions for that show?

 

[Polterwurst]

So who will be the next guest and where is the forum to post questions for that show?

The forum for posting questions is here:
The Question Bank

Gene (or sometimes Chris) will post a new thread there as soon as the interview with next week's guest is scheduled. I don't think it's certain yet who it's going to be, but you can expect the question thread being posted in the next two or three days.

Great show!
I was impressed to find out about Chris's brother's involvement with Santeria.
I was also impressed with how much experience Chris has had with psychedelics.

Yeah. Although I can understand where Ufology's and other people's reservations come from, I do think it's highly interesting. And Chris's account of the light objects coming closer when one of their group "asked them to", that was totally unexpected and interesting. You hear this notion quite often when it comes to these "manoeuvering stars", that they seem to react to spoken utterances or even thoughts.

Which makes me think of stonehart's question for some reason. It was directed towards haunting type phenomena, but I would include these things, too. Are they natural or spiritual? I would say they could be both at the same time.

 

[stonehart]

The forum for posting questions is here:
The Question Bank

Gene (or sometimes Chris) will post a new thread there as soon as the interview with next week's guest is scheduled. I don't think it's certain yet who it's going to be, but you can expect the question thread being posted in the next two or three days.



Yeah. Although I can understand where Ufology's and other people's reservations come from, I do think it's highly interesting. And Chris's account of the light objects coming closer when one of their group mentioned, that was totally unexpected and interesting. You hear this notion quite often when it comes to these "manoeuvering stars", that they seem to react to spoken utterances or even thoughts.

Which makes me think of stonehart's question for some reason. It was directed towards haunting type phenomena, but I would include these things, too. Are they natural or spiritual? I would say they could be both at the same time.

Interesting take on it Polterwurst, as you can understand I am looking into natural causes first off but I have ruled out infra-sound caused by heavy road traffic for a start. I took readings and found nothing thus far out of the ordinary with the background noise levels, I used an Earthworks RTA microphone and a program called SMART to do this. The next step is to setup two PZM microphones and test for low level vibrations and see if these line up with any strange events in the house (this was an Idea that Chris gave me and since I own these types of microphones and very very high end gear I thought I would test his idea out).
However this has not ruled out infra-sound overall as it could still be caused by other things, we will be doing some drainage rework here over the next month or so (post earthquake repair) and I have asked for a copy of the drainage report which will show where the drains/pipes underground go. Just a hunch but I want to rule out vibrations caused by transmission through drainage systems.

Having said all this I am not so sure this has a logical and natural explanation given the types of events that have happened, infra-sound and low level vibration will not account for black shapes and locked doors opening.

 

[boomerang]

Just listened to the episode. Big kudos to all for a great show!

 

[Randall]

I don't know what I might contribute but for what it's worth, I think it is a great idea - I'd help spread the word for sure.

Thanks Goggs Sending you an invite to the discussion. We haven't got much solidified yet ...

 

[Polterwurst]

You hear this notion quite often when it comes to these "manoeuvering stars", that they seem to react to spoken utterances or even thoughts.

DISCLAIMER: while this may be the effect a certain Commander G. is using for his paid "contacts in the desert" trips, it btw. does NOT mean that he has special ambassadorial connections. Probably, in his case, "they" just want to have a laugh at some doe-eyed believers who pay good money for something they could have for free.
In Chris's, case, though I guess they wanted to study some doped-up dudes ( just kidding ).

 

[boomerang]

It's hard to read through the history of the "modern" UFO phenomenon without at least hypothesizing an undefined connection, of an individual and personal nature, between the observer and what the observer perceives he or she really saw. This is in no way to imply that certain self-proclaimed gurus (no examples by name necessary here!) have the ability to call down space brothers from the sky at will. But the feeling of deep personal awe and connection in close encounters is well documented. And it almost always is visited upon the unsuspecting who are not seeking it. Perhaps it occurs after the fact and perhaps not. We simply do not know. This aspect in conjunction with the physicality of the UFO in our 3 dimensional world is a very recurrent theme.

 

[Randall]

It's hard to read through the history of the "modern" UFO phenomenon without at least hypothesizing an undefined connection, of an individual and personal nature, between the observer and what the observer perceives he or she really saw. This is in no way to imply that certain self-proclaimed gurus (no examples by name necessary here!) have the ability to call down space brothers from the sky at will. But the feeling of deep personal awe and connection in close encounters is well documented. And it almost always is visited upon the unsuspecting who are not seeking it. Perhaps it occurs after the fact and perhaps not. We simply do not know. This aspect in conjunction with the physicality of the UFO in our 3 dimensional world is a very recurrent theme.

Great post, and if I might clarify my comments on the show a bit. They were a direct response to the question rather than an endorsement of any claim in particular. Additionally, I think we might go so far as to propose that the connection between the observer and the phenomenon is not as recent a development as you suggest, particularly if we look at it in the context of religious mythology. For example, if we are to suppose that some of the stories we find in biblical texts have some basis in reality, then the role of prayer in manifesting the phenomenon cannot be overlooked as relevant to the question. This isn't to be taken as an endorsement of religion or that I have any particular belief in the historical truth of religious mythology. It is simply to put the question into that context for the sake of objective consideration, and IMO it's worthwhile to do so because such mythology has played a huge role in culture throughout history.

 

[William Strathmann]

. . . I think we might go so far as to propose that the connection between the observer and the phenomenon is not as recent a development as you suggest, particularly if we look at it in the context of religious mythology. For example, if we are to suppose that some of the stories we find in biblical texts have some basis in reality, then the role of prayer in manifesting the phenomenon cannot be overlooked as relevant to the question. This isn't to be taken as an endorsement of religion or that I have any particular belief in the historical truth of religious mythology. It is simply to put the question into that context for the sake of objective consideration, and IMO it's worthwhile to do so because such mythology has played a huge role in culture throughout history.

The roundtable show and ATP was quite interesting. Thanks to all participants!

Your comment above Ufology, is a nice lead-in to an idea I was thinking of suggesting for the Forums. My thought is that it might be worth adding another general forum heading to the existing headings to encourage direct discussion of world views, ancient and modern, and what impact they might have on fortean / UFO / paranormal, etc. My three suggestions for the title of such a forum:

a) World-views in Collision (hat tip to Immanuel Velikovsky)

b) Deisi-Daimonia (δεισιδαιμονία - hat tip to ancient Greek culture)

c) The 5th Dementia (hat tip to a '60's-'70's Champagne Soul group, and to Mad Magazine)

Ufology, during conversation on the show about Amy Allan you said,

"I don't think anyone is in contact with dead people."​

Actually, though I am a theist, I would tend to strongly agree with your statement, even though the grounds on which I'd support that statement would be quite different from yours. On the other hand, I am not against the idea that Allan may be in contact with "something" external to her that may be sentient.

There are lots of varying reports of such things: T. Allen Greenfield talked about invoking Metatron. Nancy du Tertre talked about contact with aliens, angels and demons, Whitley Strieber talked about all his stuff. Still, 0ther guests have different views, some holding strongly to the ETH.

Is there proof to decide in a particular direction? I don't think so. There's just evidence, most of which is not susceptible to empirical research.

IMHO much of ufological / fortean study is more akin to something like proving in the 21st century that Joan of Arc actually lived and had an impact on battles in France six centuries ago. According to medieval records she was, intentionally, so thoroughly burned at the stake and cremated that nothing was left of her at all, and the ashes were dumped in the Seine. All eye-witnesses are long dead. There are only records that may be true, or biased, or invented out of whole cloth. Indeed, there is much in history that we take for granted today that has very little actual "physical" proof to support the idea. So, similar to the filtering of historical reports, ufology is more about filtering highly unusual reports with little to no "hard" evidence, and then assigning probabilities. IMHO, one's world-view is a "bias" that will cause evidence to be weighted in various directions. So, I suggest that the Paracast open a new forum, now at the beginning of the second decade, that directly encourages discussion of world views.

 

[Wade]

Has anybody else had a problem with receiving the ATP of the listener roundtable on their podcast player? I successfully downloaded the main episode...haven't listened to it yet...but when I try to download the ATP episodethe status bar on my phone indicates it's ATP but I get the main episode on that feed as well. It happened three times. Twice via my podcast app and once after signing in and downloading via the forum. I'm assuming it's the same source feed.