Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Yup the school cases are great studies:
Westall incident 50 years on
Anyone ever heard of The Welsh Broad Haven Triangle incident?
Zimbabwe '94 landing
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The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy
- Thread starter Thomas R Morrison
- Start date
Free episodes:
Westall incident 50 years on
Anyone ever heard of The Welsh Broad Haven Triangle incident?
Zimbabwe '94 landing
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Burnt,
Good links and the close encounters is 'muddy section' not because of the lack of evidence rather affects on those experience it. Now if only a few thousand were experiencing these close encounters it might explain sleep paralysis but it seems to be occurring more often than humanity rational explanation. Agree the propulsion system is only one aspect of the investigation and car interactions with carbon engines is a core issue towards the phenomena. The anti-gravity angle seems very plausible which Staton , alluded to years before good researchers like ( Richard Dolan with his two volumes and others). He was on the money about high advance technology it seems with growing evidence of sightings over the years. However, is is it humans or/both unknown phenomena ? The Ghost angle is another element and its offshoot residue towards those who have had close encounters such as poltergeist activity . I think mentioned it before but it goes with the current discussion on the phenomena actions. For example , years ago while overseas was given a few pebbles from the French coast by a couple who lived near by during a memorial service at Omaha Beach in France , The reason is we new a late US Col who was at Omaha Beach during the Normandy Landing who lived across the road from us and who passed few years before with full military honours. After returning home we decide to place the pebbles in a old cabinet, anyway few weeks later my wife wakes us up telling me to listen to odd noise coming from the old cabinet location . The sounds of the ocean, bullets, explosions and odd screams very dull could be heard. This went on for a few week and can tell you it was pretty freaky. Anyway , the cabinet doors were banging that loud it woke us up and was concerned the glass windows would break. Therefore, decide to locked it with the key and the next night the bloody noise started up again. So proceeded to shut the door and re-lock the cabinet again as I notice the key was inside and the doors unlocked . Odd thing was the night before I placed the key in the front section of the cabinet. The phenomena has strange ways in communicating or as Chris suggest "Trickster " like to say hello. Anyway great Paracast Show this week was a keeper .
Good links and the close encounters is 'muddy section' not because of the lack of evidence rather affects on those experience it. Now if only a few thousand were experiencing these close encounters it might explain sleep paralysis but it seems to be occurring more often than humanity rational explanation. Agree the propulsion system is only one aspect of the investigation and car interactions with carbon engines is a core issue towards the phenomena. The anti-gravity angle seems very plausible which Staton , alluded to years before good researchers like ( Richard Dolan with his two volumes and others). He was on the money about high advance technology it seems with growing evidence of sightings over the years. However, is is it humans or/both unknown phenomena ? The Ghost angle is another element and its offshoot residue towards those who have had close encounters such as poltergeist activity . I think mentioned it before but it goes with the current discussion on the phenomena actions. For example , years ago while overseas was given a few pebbles from the French coast by a couple who lived near by during a memorial service at Omaha Beach in France , The reason is we new a late US Col who was at Omaha Beach during the Normandy Landing who lived across the road from us and who passed few years before with full military honours. After returning home we decide to place the pebbles in a old cabinet, anyway few weeks later my wife wakes us up telling me to listen to odd noise coming from the old cabinet location . The sounds of the ocean, bullets, explosions and odd screams very dull could be heard. This went on for a few week and can tell you it was pretty freaky. Anyway , the cabinet doors were banging that loud it woke us up and was concerned the glass windows would break. Therefore, decide to locked it with the key and the next night the bloody noise started up again. So proceeded to shut the door and re-lock the cabinet again as I notice the key was inside and the doors unlocked . Odd thing was the night before I placed the key in the front section of the cabinet. The phenomena has strange ways in communicating or as Chris suggest "Trickster " like to say hello. Anyway great Paracast Show this week was a keeper .
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Johnny Nonsense
Paranormal Novice
I just finished listening - it was one hell of an episode. I'm just beginning to understand this apparent schism between the two camps - I'm strongly and naturally on the side of the ETH, but am happy to hear it all. I'm like "wow, I agree completely with this Thomas guy - he must be some kind of genius!", and then I listen to Mike, and feel like I've hit the jackpot with 2 geniuses on one show!
LOL, anyhow, keep up the good work. I'll have to spend more time reading these forums than some of those others.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
I don't think we can be sure of either. There have been reports of ETs destroying downed craft, and while there's no clear evidence of backengineering, some progress might've been made.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
And this was clearly attempted to make MOGUL seem like the answer. As KDR notes, Moore falsified flight data to make it look like MOGUL #4 reached the Foster ranch. That alone should disprove it, but there's more--the cancellation of #4, the inability of a base intel officer to identify supposed balloon wreckage.....
Wonder-man
Paranormal Novice
Grant Carmeron has proposed a view (hypothesis) that seems pretty all encompassing. I tend to agree with his views which are not definitive yet for those of you who want nitty gritty details, but in broad brush terms he ought to be able to take on all "comers" who want to "bring it." grant cameron unify youtube - Saferbrowser Yahoo Video Search Results
All on ETH panel debate acquitted themselves well. Certain of you seemed especially well informed. Great to hear from our Aussi mates. There probably is or was an underground UFO base in the park at the end of his street. Just because the authorities didn't find any obvious evidence doesn't mean there wasn't a potential for something to be uncovered. Some research into the geology underlying the park in that general area and some localized seismological readings could help. It would be important to canvass the neighbors and see what odd things they might have experienced while they've been living in that area. If it is already known that there are caves under that ground, the likelyhood becomes even stronger. The presence of water in some quantitiy can sometimes be an indicator, as well. Don't assume the base will be right next to the "alleged entry." Sometimes the actual base could be quite some distance away....especially, if it was craft seen entering the rock face rather than beings.
An instrumented approach to ET research was propose very early on by meteorologist James E. MacDonald and the military jumped on it, while at the same time not encouraging such research by ordinary citizens. Still there were UFO research groups, and citizens with an inventive bent that did develop equipment or bought off the shelf equipment in an effort to capture better data on UFO's transiting their chosen areas of investigation. Chris has been huge supporter of Ray Stanford and rightly so. He was one of the few "civilians" that had sufficient financial backing to put together a laboratory of equipment which he then put in a van. He has been sitting on some excellent data as this program revealed, but refused to publish it early on because he felt there would be no market for a "technical book" on the subject. I disagreed with him then, but he may have been right in the sense that he ought to have a much more savvy and appreciative audience now.
Here's the tricky part. These beings or the intelligence behind their appearance thinks ahead in very long time spans. They IT seems to have psychic and psychological profiles of the individuals the "contact" and invest extensive time and energy in either immediately or over a number of years. They-IT also seem to be very conversant in energy field manipulations of both energies we have come to know about and many more that we don't. In some sense the "show" that is put on is a lot like a "dream show" in the sense that there is an obvious scenario on the surface, but many more subtler ones beneath that surface. Instruments can be fooled or spoofed. The impression the individual/witnesses come(s) away with may be exactly the one "intended" but not a "real" one in terms of the deeper aspects of the phenomena and we are most naive to believe that somehow that doesn't extend to our instruments whether they are image takers or scale measurers.
So called human science can be subverted or even redirected as in the cases of witnesses who retain scientific data that they have no basis for understanding, but can recall enough detail or have captured enough detail that they can pass the ideas on to those who have the knowledge.
The idea of passive data capture could be useful up to a certain point, (there is a range of UFO cases where we seem to have learned much by "accident.") but any device created by our technology can be spoofed by theirs. The intelligence that can read human thought at a distance can certainly uncover any "traps" that may be set out against it and disable them or spoof them as it may choose or even ignore them.
One of the points no one has made lately is that these "physical craft" are capable of changing size, significantly. Consider the possibility that in some instances where they are reported to have disappeared they may have just shrunk to a size below what is visible at a given distance and doused their lights.
No one on the panel mentioned the ufo cases where the witness has been surrounded by lots of little sparkling lights, like fairy lights or larger ones we term bols, but those observations are also part of the literature and the mystery.
What is amusing to me and could be attributed to either the trickster side of the phenomena or an unfamiliarity with the nuances of our aircraft or other vehicular designs are cases like the one LMH reported where a black helicopter flew by, but the design of its rotor blade was such that it would have been incapable of flight.
In addition to instantly modifiable craft there are also reports of drone or small robotic type vehicles. I know of at least two cases that MUFON doesn't have in its files, so I would venture to say that such sightings are even more under reported than those of the more recognizable/familiar types of "unknowns."
Have fun and carry on gentlemen the subject is one that will engage us for some time to come.
All on ETH panel debate acquitted themselves well. Certain of you seemed especially well informed. Great to hear from our Aussi mates. There probably is or was an underground UFO base in the park at the end of his street. Just because the authorities didn't find any obvious evidence doesn't mean there wasn't a potential for something to be uncovered. Some research into the geology underlying the park in that general area and some localized seismological readings could help. It would be important to canvass the neighbors and see what odd things they might have experienced while they've been living in that area. If it is already known that there are caves under that ground, the likelyhood becomes even stronger. The presence of water in some quantitiy can sometimes be an indicator, as well. Don't assume the base will be right next to the "alleged entry." Sometimes the actual base could be quite some distance away....especially, if it was craft seen entering the rock face rather than beings.
An instrumented approach to ET research was propose very early on by meteorologist James E. MacDonald and the military jumped on it, while at the same time not encouraging such research by ordinary citizens. Still there were UFO research groups, and citizens with an inventive bent that did develop equipment or bought off the shelf equipment in an effort to capture better data on UFO's transiting their chosen areas of investigation. Chris has been huge supporter of Ray Stanford and rightly so. He was one of the few "civilians" that had sufficient financial backing to put together a laboratory of equipment which he then put in a van. He has been sitting on some excellent data as this program revealed, but refused to publish it early on because he felt there would be no market for a "technical book" on the subject. I disagreed with him then, but he may have been right in the sense that he ought to have a much more savvy and appreciative audience now.
Here's the tricky part. These beings or the intelligence behind their appearance thinks ahead in very long time spans. They IT seems to have psychic and psychological profiles of the individuals the "contact" and invest extensive time and energy in either immediately or over a number of years. They-IT also seem to be very conversant in energy field manipulations of both energies we have come to know about and many more that we don't. In some sense the "show" that is put on is a lot like a "dream show" in the sense that there is an obvious scenario on the surface, but many more subtler ones beneath that surface. Instruments can be fooled or spoofed. The impression the individual/witnesses come(s) away with may be exactly the one "intended" but not a "real" one in terms of the deeper aspects of the phenomena and we are most naive to believe that somehow that doesn't extend to our instruments whether they are image takers or scale measurers.
So called human science can be subverted or even redirected as in the cases of witnesses who retain scientific data that they have no basis for understanding, but can recall enough detail or have captured enough detail that they can pass the ideas on to those who have the knowledge.
The idea of passive data capture could be useful up to a certain point, (there is a range of UFO cases where we seem to have learned much by "accident.") but any device created by our technology can be spoofed by theirs. The intelligence that can read human thought at a distance can certainly uncover any "traps" that may be set out against it and disable them or spoof them as it may choose or even ignore them.
One of the points no one has made lately is that these "physical craft" are capable of changing size, significantly. Consider the possibility that in some instances where they are reported to have disappeared they may have just shrunk to a size below what is visible at a given distance and doused their lights.
No one on the panel mentioned the ufo cases where the witness has been surrounded by lots of little sparkling lights, like fairy lights or larger ones we term bols, but those observations are also part of the literature and the mystery.
What is amusing to me and could be attributed to either the trickster side of the phenomena or an unfamiliarity with the nuances of our aircraft or other vehicular designs are cases like the one LMH reported where a black helicopter flew by, but the design of its rotor blade was such that it would have been incapable of flight.
In addition to instantly modifiable craft there are also reports of drone or small robotic type vehicles. I know of at least two cases that MUFON doesn't have in its files, so I would venture to say that such sightings are even more under reported than those of the more recognizable/familiar types of "unknowns."
Have fun and carry on gentlemen the subject is one that will engage us for some time to come.
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Creepy Green Light
Paranormal Adept
Again....dashcam footage of an airplane crashing - crystal clear. Yet zero dashcam footage of a detailed craft or even a point of light doing a right angle turn....(note how you can clearly see the sky even though the camera is not pointed up)
Plane smashes into Florida highway
Plane smashes into Florida highway
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
This show is one for the history books. Excellent constructive point-counterpoint in an attempt to come to an understanding of the UFO phenomenon. During the Show With Susan Demeter-St. Clair I was trying to get the idea across that on some level, it seems like part of the alien's agenda ( if there is one ) is to act as a catalyst for exactly this sort of thing. To get us to cooperate toward a common understanding.
To add to the conjecture, although UFO experiences tend to be intensely personal, the thinking that follows tends to transcends that. People once focused on getting back and forth from their daily grind, whether rich and powerful or just your average citizen, suddenly have the curtain opened on a worldview that takes in a much wider slice of reality, and when even a few get together like this, it's almost magical.
I'm not sure that the participants themselves realize just how amazing this aspect is. I don't even have a full grasp of it myself, but I have a very strong intuition about it. There's a collective understanding between those of us who know, and a desire to explore it further and communicate it to others. And it shows in the energy and enthusiasm, not just in the knowledge.
Never mind that we can't prove it to the satisfaction of the skeptics. I think that this sort of brain storming has an untapped potential for contributing to some sort of real advancement. Let me offer this for your consideration. There's a social phenomena referred to as The Wisdom of Crowds by author James Surowieki. It's context is in business and marketing, but this year a TV drama by the same name applied the idea to crime solving.
The idea is that collective thoughts regarding the question at hand can be resolved into answers that are far more accurate than what individuals alone are likely to come up with. I wonder what would happen if we could apply this to the ufology witness/researcher crowd? The beauty is that we don't have to be sure which individual case is perfectly accurate.
We know there are answers out there among all the witnesses and researchers. Or at the very least I'd say that it's unlikely that with all the witnesses and researchers and thinking that's gone on that nobody has actually expressed accurate opinions, and the Wisdom of Crowds is a way of distilling out the answers without actually having to count all the jelly beans in the jar.
Anyway, also glad to hear @Christopher O'Brien back ( hope you can kick that bronchial irritant for good ! ) and I hope there are more shows like this one in the future. This panel was excellent and once again, it's this sort of thing that sets The Paracast apart from the rest. There's huge untapped potential in the audience. It doesn't always have to be about some personality hawking some book, video or pet theory.
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Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Blowfish.....that is one helluva story coming from those pebbles. In your own personal opinion what the hell do you think was taking place in that cabinet? Have you ever had similar experiences such as this?
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
So you know I've had to contend with similar things in my life and i notice it fluctuates, this need to want to know exactly what it was I saw. It doesn't make sense to me either, or that when we decided to spend a summer UFO hunting we saw some rather bizarre lights in the sky...no where near as dramatic as that close up sighting though. I have found the longer I look into the field and try to find answers I still can not explain nor fathom what those two ships were or why they looked like flying saucers that blasted up into the stars in seconds.
The stuff we saw later I think now that if you go seeking you will see what you are trying to seek.
But I'm curious to know what your fluctuation level is on how much time you give over to seeking an answer.....does it come in waves or has been a constant for you since it happened? I notice waves that become tsunamis and then total disinterest. And then the waveform grows and suddenly I'm reading psych, physics, soc, phil and bio papers that I really don't have time in my life to read. Nor do I have the capacity really to read these things. But I'll say one thing about looking for answers to UFOs you really get an education in very diverse fields and there's something really curious about that feature.
Yes, there are caves a plenty here, and water.
And a high concentration of Ironstone. Lightning is a real pain here as this area attracts it, the local telecom man was complaining to me about the higher than usual callouts in our street because of the Ironstone. Electrical appliances have a short lifespan here as a result. The guy across the road cited the constant replacement of equipment as his reason for selling up and moving.
I keep an open mind on "Old Fred", he may have simply approached everyone and said "Your husband has seen them hasn't he ? the aliens hes seen them" But i haven't found anyone else who this has happened to.
What did surprise me, which i mentioned in the show was how quickly the man on the UFO desk recognized who i was talking about and the area, he had Old Freds street address which he asked me to confirm within a minute of answering the call. and went on to confirm they had opened a case file on the matter. Even sending a team to interview him and equipment to check the area he claims to have seen a craft enter a base.
More on my area here:
The Blue Mountains UFO Enigma
Blue mountains data base
This one is on "Bases" here:
UFO Base Under The Blue Mountains
Australian Underground Technology Bases
Edit: Just found this one in the reports, this is the end of the same road i live on. The surfaced road ends at the entrance to the national park, but continues as an unsurfaced road to Murphys Glen.
Murphys Glen in the Blue Mountains National Park has lately been the scene of some unusual happenings. Recently Steven Burroughs of Woodford was camping in the glen when he observed mysterious lights flying overhead to descend among the trees of nearby forest.
This is pretty much the exact same location as old Freds base.
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marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
It’s never been a constant for me. I had a few sightings when I was 8-11 or so, then they went away until I was 16-17, then they became more personal a few times.
Then away again until my mid 20’s when I had an experience with my now ex-wife (actually contributed somewhat to the downfall of our marriage - she blamed me for it).
Then away again until I was 40 or so, when I had a really good daylight sighting again, and another experience or two.
It’s gone quiet again for the past few years.
Thomas R Morrison
Paranormal Adept
I am so relieved to see these comments today - after Existential's snarky post, I was wondering "oh crap - was this conversation only so engaging and provocative from my perspective because I was participating in it, and it was as boring as watching paint dry to everyone else?"
But I just listened to this episode and our continued discussion on After The Paracast, and they both moved so fast and covered so many fascinating angles as everyone leapt at every opening to forward their best arguments, that it felt like being in a foxhole at the beaches of Normandy with machine gun fire zipping overhead relentlessly the whole time.
So I'm delighted that some of you enjoyed it as much as we did.
And I'm especially pleased with mike's contributions to this episode, because on one hand he sounds like a guy you'd enjoy throwing back a few pints with before going out and boxing kangaroos in the Outback, but what he has to say sounds like a university professor teaching the fine points of exopolitics.
But honestly everybody came armed with an arsenal of interesting points and anecdotes, and I'm always amazed that every time somebody mentions a particularly interesting case, Chris is like "yeah I looked into that one, and here's some more inside detail about it." I'm grateful for the opportunity to disagree and agree with so many intelligent minds from around the world all at once, about one of my favorite topics.
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ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Now Dr . Randle and Nuclear Scientist Stanton Friedman are two who I admire as researchers as others in this field who have no agenda or seek to muddy the field. There, work is outstanding and the Roswell Case is in the grey basket and the reason why is after talking to folks who worked in the "Black Project World" they have eluded to something not ordinary occurred in that place (the military keep secrets and does it bloody well). The person was related to a former US President and still alive in the US who discussed in confidence not the (other one podcasting either online with wow wow). Now before folks give example of whistle blowers spilling done data dumps . Those folks always think of other measures which China, India and Russia most likely have more "Black Projects" than we all can imagine. Yes the Bob Lazar story is in the grey basket and more plausible he was a outlet for the information and kept some stuff back. These folks like to keep secret that's there jobs in working in that industry and they like a field back to it roots of the 1950s type organisation it had military and ex-military running the groups with small group of researchers seeking answers. Like Staton , mentioned on other podcast show about hidden projects which should not be revealed even though some folks jump up and down like children for the release. If its going to keep the World safe from total nuclear holocaust do you blame them?
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If there was ever a reason to sign up for the P+ its our after show chat, well worth the Galactic Groats to listen in on.
Gene will take earth money as well if you dont have any groats.
Galactic Groats, don't leave Earth without them.
But seriously if you liked this show, the after show chat was just as good if not better.
Treat yourself, you're worth it.
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And it could be as simple as our carnivorous status as a species.
Dolphins have been recognized as people by India
Dolphins gain unprecedented protection in India | DW Environment | DW | 24.05.2013
Apes are people too.
Apes are people too? NY judge grants human rights to chimpanzees
And yet both these "peoples" are eaten by homo sapiens.
Bushmeat - Ape Alliance
Japan to open water park where you can watch then EAT dolphins | Daily Mail Online
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008C2GRQY/?tag=rockoids-20
Tastes Like Chicken: Eating E.T., A Mock Alien Barbecue
That we haven't just been wiped off the face of the earth surprises me. Again a post biological species might have a philosophical view of this. (Give em time they will grow out of it when they too, become post biological)
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I'm sure History will agree that Gene has created a very special place in the Paracast.
I like to think that 100 years from now historians will look at this place and recognize the minds that contributed here were well ahead of their time.
Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
"Dr." Randle?
I presume you meant "Their work is outstanding..."
KDR apparently now thinks so, for while he's sure MOGUL isn't the answer, nor any other earthly explanation he's ever heard of, "eliminating the impossible" by itself doesn't, in his view, prove it was ET. Friedman's position is still that it was ET, or at least I haven't heard otherwise.
Roswell was just a secret test of something? Anything built back in '47 would've become obsolete, and revealed as the answer years ago. Of course someone told Redfern Roswell involved just some contraption with Japanese POWs, who crashed and perished. In other words, despite the obsolete technology, it was covered up to hide a "horrible secret" but that's nonsense.
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
Nick,
Research is good stuff and don't agree with it all as he would expect his readers to do their own research. The Imperial Japanese POW angle during the post WW2 is unusual in the Roswell Case. (Don't forget the Imperial Japanese were used as police force in Indochina and a number other Asian states during the post-WW2. Until the Colonial forces took back their occupation for example Malaya, Singapore.) Which has more detail about the case for those interested in buying his book which I would recommend for overall example of the mindset of that period in history towards Imperial Japan. The issue using POWs in such manner was not unusual in Pacific Theater of WW2. One example ( was a plane load of IJPOW were placed into a number of experimental craft and others thrown out of planes over shark infested ocean without parachutes these ones were guards of a number of the Allied POW camps and the treatment of the Allied soldiers) this went under the radar of warfare. Also on another subject this lecture looks quite intresting
How Special Is Our Universe?
Research is good stuff and don't agree with it all as he would expect his readers to do their own research. The Imperial Japanese POW angle during the post WW2 is unusual in the Roswell Case. (Don't forget the Imperial Japanese were used as police force in Indochina and a number other Asian states during the post-WW2. Until the Colonial forces took back their occupation for example Malaya, Singapore.) Which has more detail about the case for those interested in buying his book which I would recommend for overall example of the mindset of that period in history towards Imperial Japan. The issue using POWs in such manner was not unusual in Pacific Theater of WW2. One example ( was a plane load of IJPOW were placed into a number of experimental craft and others thrown out of planes over shark infested ocean without parachutes these ones were guards of a number of the Allied POW camps and the treatment of the Allied soldiers) this went under the radar of warfare. Also on another subject this lecture looks quite intresting
How Special Is Our Universe?
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marduk
quelling chaos since 2352BC
I love Uncle Stan, but he does a pretty good job muddying the field - MJ-12, Roswell, et all.