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The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis : Fact and Fallacy

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Trajanus said:
Dr. Crary was the one who kept records of MOGUL launches. It's the key documentation which debunks MOGUL (though far from the only argument against it; as KDR has shown Moore falsified data to make it appear the answer...). Flight #4 was cancelled the others are accounted for i.e. came down in areas besides the Foster ranch.



This is precisely what KDR has done, to the satisfaction of the best informed people in the field.



A bit too pessimistic. It'll have to await official disclosure--maybe 2100? :)
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Tell you what. I’ll jeep a good bottle of scotch somewhere in my will for your next of kin in case you’re right.
 
Trajanus said:
Our ability to investigate extrasolar planets is very limited so this is misleading.



Na an advanced culture can afford to be bolder.



Certain unique conditions--like when someone is alone in a remote area (perfect for ET to pounce) nice coincidence...
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I seriously doubt we see actual flesh-and-blood individuals in those craft.

A post biological civilization would have the ability to create probes very much that looked like whatever it wanted to.

Maybe there’s no risk at all - even of losing the craft or material. If it’s ‘smart material’ you could just have programmed it to disintegrate in a few hours as a precaution.

Maybe crash wreckage and bodies just evaporate.
 
Indeed, until all the evidence on the table it's all speculation which leads to the credible reports of Police Officers , Politicians and Military Pilots , Sonar Operators, Radar Specialist etc from audio recordings/ videos. All the recordings of all the individuals names, ranks, and documenting evidence of their job titles. For example, Betty and Barney Hill Story the tapes done by Official Police and Military with all the information after the event not hypnosis sessions. Like historical cases of Project Blue Book all the audio/any recordings by military personnel and all who were in the interview room during the interviews sessions.
 
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Burnt State said:
A great book would be just on school sightings and events. There are a number of landing cases involving schools and because of the range of witnesses and ranges of experience, there's a lot of rich data to be explored there. I wonder why it is we no longer see epic cases like this or why CE cases have gone from 10% of UFO reports to only 1% over the last 28 years (data from the always consistent Canadian UFO Report headed by Rutkowski - one of the last true ufologists)? There are these well defined periods in the UFO eras and we appear to be in a new one. Case reports are consistent but no one is talking about them.
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Agreed 100% Burnt.
 
BTW - Delonge has raised over $2 million so far just like that. Meanwhile, our own Chris O. has been trying to get $ for his camera in the valley project for about 6 yrs I think (I started listening to the Paracast in 2011 and I'm pretty sure he was talking about it then) :(
 
marduk said:
I seriously doubt we see actual flesh-and-blood individuals in those craft.

A post biological civilization would have the ability to create probes very much that looked like whatever it wanted to.

Maybe there’s no risk at all - even of losing the craft or material. If it’s ‘smart material’ you could just have programmed it to disintegrate in a few hours as a precaution.

Maybe crash wreckage and bodies just evaporate.
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Indeed, from a human standpoint we assuming the habits and activity of any other life form or non-biological does not make mistakes in Darwin' Theory of Evolution Earth species do.
 
marduk said:
Except we’d be starting clean, with modern data gathering and fresh verifiable data - with no baggage.
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How would it be more verifiable than reports that came out of the USAF from the people operating Project Blue Book? Is NUFORC really any better? How does Davenport verify his reports? Or UFO Stalker? Or MUFON? Or any other civilian agency? I'd say it's not that we'd be starting clean. We'd be starting with nothing in an age where the subject is heavily biased, faked videos are everywhere, and there's no cooperation from official sources.

Let's not to forget that back when the Air Force first got involved, there was no stigmatization yet. They were looking at the subject with a slate that was squeaky clean compared to anything today, and they had relatively unbiased ideas about where these unknown craft were coming from. It was from those initial studies that USAF technical experts in 1948 concluded that what they we're probably dealing with is ET. At the time they figured ET probably meant interplanetary, but since then advances in space exploration have pretty much ruled that out. So the next logical alternative is interstellar, hence the Interstellar Hypothesis ( ISH ).

The closest we've ever gotten to a no baggage situation, and will probably ever get to one in the future, has already come and gone and left us with a perfectly reasonable conclusion. It was only after The Robertson Panel in 1953 that the real ridicule and heavy debunking set in. And well, you know most of the rest of the story. I see this revisionist movement as little more than an attempt by contemporary personas to make their work stand out as new and fresh and worthy of attention.

After all if the guys back at the beginning got it right in the first place, what value is some nonsensical theory based on folklore and quantum woo? Naturally the first order of business ( for some people ) is to downplay the work done previously by others, and it's really common to see the "new and fresh" versus the "old and obsolete" tactic in today's world, especially when a lot of the original players are no longer around to defend themselves. So I'll do what I can in their stead. There's a reason it was called the Golden Age of Ufology.
 
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marduk said:
Tell you what. I’ll jeep a good bottle of scotch somewhere in my will for your next of kin in case you’re right.
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Lol, with regard to ET it may make sense to assume the truth (disclosure) will be long delayed. But with regard to MOGUL, that's been resolved already.
 
marduk said:
I seriously doubt we see actual flesh-and-blood individuals in those craft.
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In most cases you're probably right.

A post biological civilization would have the ability to create probes very much that looked like whatever it wanted to.
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Sure but it probably has long gone beyond the stage of probes and is at the stage of more intense study or intervention.

Maybe there’s no risk at all - even of losing the craft or material. If it’s ‘smart material’ you could just have programmed it to disintegrate in a few hours as a precaution.

Maybe crash wreckage and bodies just evaporate.
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Evidence? Cases I've heard about mention stricken craft either having a self destruct mechanism or being destroyed by another craft. But they were post Roswell so maybe such means wren't initially available, on short notice.
 
Usual Suspect said:
Let's not to forget that back when the Air Force first got involved, there was no stigmatization yet. They were looking at the subject with a slate that was squeaky clean compared to anything today, and they had relatively unbiased ideas about where these unknown craft were coming from. It was from those initial studies that USAF technical experts in 1948 concluded that what they we're probably dealing with is ET.
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Sure The Estimate of the Situation. KDR opined that Vandenburg "batted it down" because it's conclusions were based on Roswell, and he didn't want the trail to lead back there.

At the time they figured ET probably meant interplanetary, but since then advances in space exploration have pretty much ruled that out. So the next logical alternative is interstellar, hence the Interstellar Hypothesis ( ISH ).
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Even in the forties, Lowell's canal theory had long fallen out of vogue, and I think enough was known about Mars to effectively rule out an advanced, indigenous civilization. I suspect an extrasolar origin was already considered most likely from the start, in '47.


The closest we've ever gotten to a no baggage situation, and will probably ever get to one in the future, has already come and gone and left us with a perfectly reasonable conclusion.
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Very good point.

After all if the guys back at the beginning got it right in the first place, what value is some nonsensical theory based on folklore and quantum woo?
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:) Well, in fairness to the "burned out" ones, the phenomenon itself has encouraged their views, with its myriad forms of HS. Still we should see through all that. It has been suggested the phenomenon stems from some kind of power or realm, usually undetectable to our senses. Great parsimonious view...How strange that those with the rare flashes of extraordinary perception tend to reside in underpopulated areas, as opposed to where the majority lives, or usually perceive when few if any others are around....And how strange that this undetectable realm suddenly began to be perceived with greater frequency post 1946.....I can see why ET visits would increase around then, as our civilization was fast progressing, entering the nuclear and space ages. :)
 
In the spirit of that active forum debate on the ETH with Thomas R Morrison, Robert Brandstetter (forum name: Burnt State), Jason (forum name: marduk) and Mike Jones (forum name: mike), we invited this quartet to appear on The Paracast.

It was one of the most fascinating episodes ever.

In fact, we had a lot more to go, so we invited them to return for this weekend's episode of After The Paracast to complete, or at least continue the discussion.

After The Paracast is an exclusive feature of The Paracast+.

For more information about our premium subscription service, please check: https://www.theparacast/com/plus/
 
Maybe we all put in extra amount in membership for Gene and Chris for christmas towards the project? Also set up a members only new thread from all the old post with any genuine old audio recordings on cases from the 1940-50s to 1960s to review of Official Police & Military interviews from all the "Golden Age Of Ufology" of credible eyewitness. Not ignoring the hard work of former researchers who passed on. Surely it's beneficial for all those interested in the "Golden Age of Ufology " .
 
Is this the thread for the episode? If not, maybe it should be merged with the ET thread.
I must say that it was a great idea having the panel discussion. Everyone acquitted themselves quite well.
As for the conclusion, I found myself more persuaded that the ETH is still viable and is the most plausible explanation for some observations.
I was also impressed by the suggestion that there could be a secret space program. Maybe Richard Dolan is right.
 
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