The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[BoyintheMachine]

Hypothetical....but maybe the evidence surrounding it? Possible by the release of slides and Hilda and Bernards name that connect a dot happens and a story emerges? Not sure. I've seen all these difficulties also. I think a majority of people who've weighed in see this. I think discussing this story with colleagues was fatal for the team, it rushed something that should have been quiet for a long while. On the other hand, with everyone weighing in new clues may surface faster.

It was a trick question. A picture isn't proof. Just like with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, as well as UFOs, pictures aren't proof. Any expert who looked at the pictures would have told them they would have had to see the actual specimen before giving a professional opinion.

 

[Constance]

Do you think it's possible to prove that a being in a picture is a genuine alien? If so, how could this be accomplished?

I didn't use the word 'prove'. What I said was that "the complement of the data and reasoning to be presented could turn out to be persuasive."

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

It was a trick question. A picture isn't proof. Just like with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, as well as UFOs, pictures aren't proof. Any expert who looked at the pictures would have told them they would have had to see the actual specimen before giving a professional opinion.

I'm ok with the "trick" question, lol.....but my mind expands slightly larger, thus a larger answer.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

I didn't use the word 'prove'. What I said was that "the complement of the data and reasoning to be presented could turn out to be persuasive."

Logically, we are to be swayed by proof/evidence and nothing else. Otherwise we arrive in "True Believer" territory. True Believerism is like a cult.

 

[Constance]

Ah, but look how little it's taken for some people to believe all sorts of nonsense based in a few days of internet postings based on an unknown German's computer enhancements of the image in Dew's short documentary entitled 'kodachrome'. Here's David Rudiak's response to some of this today at KR's site:

Pseudonyminous "DocConjure" wrote:
Are you just making up stuff at this point?

Making what up? I'm not that imaginative. Here are some of just YOUR recent comments on the subject in just the last few days, bouncing around like a ball in a pinball machine:

1. IT'S A MUMMY, IT'S FROM COLUMBIA, OR FROM EGYPT, OR FROM THE U.S. IT'S BOTH DEFORMED AND NOT DEFORMED.

Could it really be [from] the American Museum of Natural History? Is it that easy? LOL

BINGO! I think you nailed it exactly! [Andean mummy] It supposedly was taken at a museum in Colombia so that would make perfect sense.

It doesn't have to have hydrocephalus. It might just be a standard child mummy. In fact, the being is very similar to classic examples of Egyptian child mummies, such as this:

It's clear to me at least that the being in the slide is likely a deformed human child.

2. NO WAIT. POSSIBLY NOT AN OLD MUMMY. IT'S A MODERN HOAX USING OLD FILM AND A DUMMY FILMED RECENTY

It may even be a dummy as the hands look odd to me.

All this time I just assumed that the slides were authentic but just didn't show an alien as claimed. Now it seems that it's very well possible the slides are hoaxed, using unexposed film from the circa 1947 era.

3. BACK TO, NO, THE SLIDES ARE AUTHENTIC, BUT CAREY AND SCHMITT ARE SCAMMERS ONLY OUT TO MAKE MONEY

I do not believe that Tom and Don faked the slides. Instead, I think they've deliberately decided to go with the Roswell alien claims in order to make money.

I seriously don't think they are stupid. Money seems to be the main motive here. The desire to keep the slides secret it to secure the money for themselves. You can't make money off of it if they were released and you can't make money off if it if you admit it's a mummified child. So you have to lie and claim it's a Roswell alien to bring in the cash. Don't underestimate the power of human greed.

So Carey and Schmitt are either very stupid or they are in this for the money. I don't think they are stupid.

As for the secret monster child of the Rays hidden away out of shame, that theory came from William Strathman, but he also made it clear he was being highly speculative and trying to think way outside the box.

Look, it's real simple. You can support the slides all you want just as long as you realize there's a price to pay for that support with regard to your credibility. Tom and Don are done. I guess your willing to flush your work down as well.

Whereas you hide behind a pseudonym throwing out unsupported accusations that Tom and Don are guilty of a deliberate hoax and are just a pair of flim-flam artists. Hiding from your perch of smug and nasty anonymity, you never have to pay a price for anything, right pal? Typical troll behavior.

You're concern for my reputation is touching, if a trifle disingenuous. I am not "supporting" the slides, but am trying to stay agnostic and give them a fair hearing, as information remains sketchy.

In contrast, you seem to jump all over the place, supporting the latest flavor of the day theory. (quotes above) About the only thing you have been consistent on is your certain belief that it couldn't possibly be a nonhuman, therefore it must be Egyption/American/Columbian mummy, either completely normal or deformed, or maybe it's a dummy.
4:34 PM

A Different Perspective: Roswell Slides Today's (February 10) Update

 

[BoyintheMachine]

Ah, but look how little it's taken for some people to believe all sorts of nonsense based in a few days of internet postings based on an unknown German's computer enhancements of the image in Dew's short documentary entitled 'kodachrome'. Here's David Rudiak's response to some of this today at KR's site:

Pseudonyminous "DocConjure" wrote:
Are you just making up stuff at this point?

Making what up? I'm not that imaginative. Here are some of just YOUR recent comments on the subject in just the last few days, bouncing around like a ball in a pinball machine:

1. IT'S A MUMMY, IT'S FROM COLUMBIA, OR FROM EGYPT, OR FROM THE U.S. IT'S BOTH DEFORMED AND NOT DEFORMED.

Could it really be [from] the American Museum of Natural History? Is it that easy? LOL

BINGO! I think you nailed it exactly! [Andean mummy] It supposedly was taken at a museum in Colombia so that would make perfect sense.

It doesn't have to have hydrocephalus. It might just be a standard child mummy. In fact, the being is very similar to classic examples of Egyptian child mummies, such as this:

It's clear to me at least that the being in the slide is likely a deformed human child.

2. NO WAIT. POSSIBLY NOT AN OLD MUMMY. IT'S A MODERN HOAX USING OLD FILM AND A DUMMY FILMED RECENTY

It may even be a dummy as the hands look odd to me.

All this time I just assumed that the slides were authentic but just didn't show an alien as claimed. Now it seems that it's very well possible the slides are hoaxed, using unexposed film from the circa 1947 era.

3. BACK TO, NO, THE SLIDES ARE AUTHENTIC, BUT CAREY AND SCHMITT ARE SCAMMERS ONLY OUT TO MAKE MONEY

I do not believe that Tom and Don faked the slides. Instead, I think they've deliberately decided to go with the Roswell alien claims in order to make money.

I seriously don't think they are stupid. Money seems to be the main motive here. The desire to keep the slides secret it to secure the money for themselves. You can't make money off of it if they were released and you can't make money off if it if you admit it's a mummified child. So you have to lie and claim it's a Roswell alien to bring in the cash. Don't underestimate the power of human greed.

So Carey and Schmitt are either very stupid or they are in this for the money. I don't think they are stupid.

As for the secret monster child of the Rays hidden away out of shame, that theory came from William Strathman, but he also made it clear he was being highly speculative and trying to think way outside the box.

Look, it's real simple. You can support the slides all you want just as long as you realize there's a price to pay for that support with regard to your credibility. Tom and Don are done. I guess your willing to flush your work down as well.

Whereas you hide behind a pseudonym throwing out unsupported accusations that Tom and Don are guilty of a deliberate hoax and are just a pair of flim-flam artists. Hiding from your perch of smug and nasty anonymity, you never have to pay a price for anything, right pal? Typical troll behavior.

You're concern for my reputation is touching, if a trifle disingenuous. I am not "supporting" the slides, but am trying to stay agnostic and give them a fair hearing, as information remains sketchy.

In contrast, you seem to jump all over the place, supporting the latest flavor of the day theory. (quotes above) About the only thing you have been consistent on is your certain belief that it couldn't possibly be a nonhuman, therefore it must be Egyption/American/Columbian mummy, either completely normal or deformed, or maybe it's a dummy.
4:34 PM

Yeah, that doesn't mean what you think it means, just so you know. People brainstorming various naturally easy explanations will never account for proof that the slides are of an alien.

 

[Constance]

Yeah, that doesn't mean what you think it means, just so you know. People brainstorming various naturally easy explanations will never account for proof that the slides are of an alien.

or not.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

or not.

No. And I've been trying to get you understand this. The default position is that it's not an alien until proof can be provided.

 

[Constance]

No one's arguing with the plain vanilla default position.

 

[Burnt State]

The whole thing strikes me as a series of conjectures and suspicions no matter which side of the fence you might stand on. Something crashed once upon a time in Roswell. There was debris but no craft. Some say they saw bodies but we have no proof. Some say it was the government, some say nazis and others say aliens. Explanations and denials are prolific, but there is no certainty. It is an oft repeated story, now with an industry behind it. It has become cultural myth - a series of suspicions based on countless unsubstantiated narratives, guesses, lies and defections. It has been the subject if highly crafted hoaxes. There is no real proof but still it is the flashpoint of ufology.

Now we have two slides that, much like the current history, is a chain of loosely connected events and possible histories. The images appear to have a humanoid inside the frame of an uncertain vintage. There is no biological matter here to test, just an image, something less than the alien autopsy hoax, yet still it is vigorously defended. It will be impossible to prove anything from these images or their back filled story of conjecture. This is all that's wrong with ufology: taking an ambiguous endpoint and then trying to draw lines towards an uncertain start point. It's incredible that such suspicions can arouse such debate and emotion.

All we have is a story. In fact it's just a story about a story.

 

[BoyintheMachine]

The whole thing strikes me as a series of conjectures and suspicions no matter which side of the fence you might stand on. Something crashed once upon a time in Roswell. There was debris but no craft. Some say they saw bodies but we have no proof. Some say it was the government, some say nazis and others say aliens. Explanations and denials are prolific, but there is no certainty. It is an oft repeated story, now with an industry behind it. It has become cultural myth - a series of suspicions based on countless unsubstantiated narratives, guesses, lies and defections. It has been the subject if highly crafted hoaxes. There is no real proof but still it is the flashpoint of ufology.

Now we have two slides that, much like the current history, is a chain of loosely connected events and possible histories. The images appear to have a humanoid inside the frame of an uncertain vintage. There is no biological matter here to test, just an image, something less than the alien autopsy hoax, yet still it is vigorously defended. It will be impossible to prove anything from these images or their back filled story of conjecture. This is all that's wrong with ufology: taking an ambiguous endpoint and then trying to draw lines towards an uncertain start point. It's incredible that such suspicions can arouse such debate and emotion.

All we have is a story. In fact it's just a story about a story.

It's polarizing. It immediately causes people to drop their masks and reveal who they are, "True Believer", "Skeptic", "Debunker", etc.

 

[Burnt State]

It's polarizing. It immediately causes people to drop their masks and reveal who they are, "True Believer", "Skeptic", "Debunker", etc.

Labels are a big part of the problem IMHO. As soon as we divide into camps the entire search is weakened by infighting. Then anyone who has interests in this area get identified as part of a circus making it so much easier for the mainstream to dismiss. It's not a wonder that crucial researchers and investigators are rarely talked about as they rarely talk themselves. Keep your head down and keep your ideas to yourself. That's Bishop's advice and it seems many have chosen that path.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Mike, you probably know Redfern's story in detail, right? He made considerable comments about this at Bishop's recent RM program. Check it out dude, mate.

Here's the really cool thing about Redfern's "contact"... all that happened two years ago BEFORE the slides were exploding on the net. Redfern got exact identifying information about the images that also MATCHED what dream people knew back 'then' "they confirmed" was correct too! ALL done privately.

Soooo....

You got your contact with Dew... do us a favor and ask him to explain this issue. It's VERY UNLIKELY the old man was a hoax 2 years ago BEFORE the media hype about any of this!

Don't you see how important this is??? Seriously!

Come-on man, you're "the man". You want the truth or part of it asap. We all do.

Help us! Please. And, thank you, sir, mate.

Wink. I think I might have OCD about this...

Lol...

 

[mike]

Actually Adam is on the record as saying he doesnt know what the slides depict
Myself and others have argued we dont know either, but that conclusions cant be formed until the evidence is released and appraised in totality

It is in fact the true deniers, who are making the claims of absolute fact , Its a scam, its a hoax, its all about money with no proof to back those absolute claims. What we are seeing is the defense of a predisposition, with no appraisal of the evidence. Im glad our legal system doesnt work this way.

Can you imagine our courts operating this way ? "i dont need to see the evidence, he looks guilty to me. Ten years hard labour, next case "

To prove this is a hoax to the criminal standard you would need to present evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt. No one has done that

The only ones making beyond the shadow of a doubt claims of absolute indeniable Truth, are the true deniers who are stating as irrefutable fact its a hoax

And again we see the patterns clearly

Characteristics of pseudoskeptics:
1. Denying, when only doubt has been established.
2. Double standards in the application of criticism.
3. The tendency to discredit rather than investigate.
4. Presenting insufficient evidence or proof.
5. Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof.
6. Making unsubstantiated counter-claims.


We get calls from them saying where are the expert anthropologists to tell us this isnt human, the same people who say slides are not proof its ET.

And thats quite true, no one can prove the existance of EBE's from these slides, but this ties into the bolded above

No credentialed anthropologist could possibly state that it is ET, and for that very reason, it would be career suicide.

On the one hand they rightly say the pics cant prove the existance of ET or Roswell
But then demand anthropologists look at the pic and tell us its not human.......

Double standards indeed

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

The whole thing strikes me as a series of conjectures and suspicions no matter which side of the fence you might stand on. Something crashed once upon a time in Roswell. There was debris but no craft. Some say they saw bodies but we have no proof. Some say it was the government, some say nazis and others say aliens. Explanations and denials are prolific, but there is no certainty. It is an oft repeated story, now with an industry behind it. It has become cultural myth - a series of suspicions based on countless unsubstantiated narratives, guesses, lies and defections. It has been the subject if highly crafted hoaxes. There is no real proof but still it is the flashpoint of ufology.

Now we have two slides that, much like the current history, is a chain of loosely connected events and possible histories. The images appear to have a humanoid inside the frame of an uncertain vintage. There is no biological matter here to test, just an image, something less than the alien autopsy hoax, yet still it is vigorously defended. It will be impossible to prove anything from these images or their back filled story of conjecture. This is all that's wrong with ufology: taking an ambiguous endpoint and then trying to draw lines towards an uncertain start point. It's incredible that such suspicions can arouse such debate and emotion.

All we have is a story. In fact it's just a story about a story.

You have a story. Why share it? Because something happened that was not "ordinary." True? You have no way of confirming it. If you bring your friend as a witness he's considered by some, not credible, by others credible based off testimony. Our entire social structure is based off testimony mixed with evidence. A Debunker is someone who is unwilling to look at anything but the mundane explanation, anything not already established as scientifically or emotionally solid to this earth is bunk. I think most people that blog here are skeptics. They look at a case and look for flaws, hoaxing, etc. That's a good thing. In the course of a few days this story has sprawled out to arguments, mindless drivel tossed back and forth and the occasional person that actually adds to the facts. Roswell was always a story waiting to be told, long before the first nickle was made. But if you look at the last few days reaction to just a picture do you really think those proclaiming to be interested in the mysteries of Ufology are really interested or more for the game playing and ego?

 

[Skymon876]

Thanks for your opinions, True Believer. However, the way it works is that nobody is required to prove it's not an alien being. We don't have to prove it's a mummified child or prove that it's a dummy or anything else. If they can't prove it's an alien the case is over with. Hint: They can't prove it's an alien.

Well Flat Earther when are you going to prove anything?

You made the claim its a mummified child. Now you have to prove it.

There is one simple fact that destroys your argument.

1. Most mummified children have 5 fingers.

2. The figures in the Kodak slides don't have 5 fingers.

Your next response is predictable.

 

[Skymon876]

Boyinthemachine, you just admitted that you don't understand science.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I think most people that blog here are skeptics. They look at a case and look for flaws, hoaxing, etc. That's a good thing. In the course of a few days this story has sprawled out to arguments, mindless drivel tossed back and forth and the occasional person that actually adds to the facts. Roswell was always a story waiting to be told, long before the first nickle was made. But if you look at the last few days reaction to just a picture do you really think those proclaiming to be interested in the mysteries of Ufology are really interested or more for the game playing and ego?

What motivates me is what happened with Doty, Moore, Bennewitz, Valdez, and many others, it connects directly to Roswell too, and the OSI PTB "puppet stringing" their targets, ALL that creates these horrific nightmares and tangled webs where its spider's bites incapacitates the truth.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

What motivates me is what happened with Doty, Moore, Bennewitz, Valdez, and many others, it connects directly to Roswell too, and the OSI PTB "puppet stringing" their targets, ALL that creates these horrific nightmares and tangled webs where its spider's bites incapacitates the truth.

That's great but Mac Brazel didn't know any of these people the day this happened. That's partly my point. By the time everyone piles on and gets away from first hand witness testimony the story becomes so convoluted that everyone else losses interest. If I had to come up with the biggest reason....the truth scares the shit out of them. (this doesn't reflect my thoughts on the slides...I'll wait awhile and see what comes up).

 

[Burnt State]

You have a story. Why share it? Because something happened that was not "ordinary." True? You have no way of confirming it. If you bring your friend as a witness he's considered by some, not credible, by others credible based off testimony. Our entire social structure is based off testimony mixed with evidence. A Debunker is someone who is unwilling to look at anything but the mundane explanation, anything not already established as scientifically or emotionally solid to this earth is bunk. I think most people that blog here are skeptics. They look at a case and look for flaws, hoaxing, etc. That's a good thing. In the course of a few days this story has sprawled out to arguments, mindless drivel tossed back and forth and the occasional person that actually adds to the facts. Roswell was always a story waiting to be told, long before the first nickle was made. But if you look at the last few days reaction to just a picture do you really think those proclaiming to be interested in the mysteries of Ufology are really interested or more for the game playing and ego?

I do think it's important to tell the story you know to be true as you know it. Roswell is a story that has moved way past an individual's telling but has turned into something so collected, manipulated and reconstructed that no truth can ever be found. It is the sacred quagmire of ufology. And yes ego and the belief that travels in both directions do fuel this fire that has sprawled all across every ufological inch of internet space.

I think your choice of words is interesting, Heidi, "Roswell was always a story waiting to be told..."

Question: is there an actual start to this story or is it just another example of the never ending story. Is it a story we need to have, like a foundation story, a gospel of some sort? I just wonder if there's anything left to learn anymore from the story or will we always be speculating about it. Are there better methods and investments of our energy that could produce new avenues and more intriguing results than trying to recreate the myth, or prove that it really happened?