DaveM
Paranormal Adept
Is this like the end of the 'Alien' movie?
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The Roswell Slides Steal the Show!
- Thread starter Sentry
- Start date
Free episodes:
Ive spoken to Adam Dew who is making the documentary about Jaime's involvement he says
Jaime has no ownership of the slides or the documentary. He's just putting on the event to release the slides to the public. Once they're out there on May 5, everyone will be able to judge them on their own merits.
They explored a number of options for presentation, They decided against a US network because they typically take executive control and would likely spin it in a format like ancient aliens.
I tend to agree with this decision, the last thing this case needed was a 1 hour "special" with 55 mins of fluff and adverts, with a 5 min showing of the actual slides in the last segment.
And while i agree with some of the reservations re JM, at least he wont be coming at this from the angle of skeptic complete with obligatory giggle factor as you might see in some US productions
Jaime has no ownership of the slides or the documentary. He's just putting on the event to release the slides to the public. Once they're out there on May 5, everyone will be able to judge them on their own merits.
They explored a number of options for presentation, They decided against a US network because they typically take executive control and would likely spin it in a format like ancient aliens.
I tend to agree with this decision, the last thing this case needed was a 1 hour "special" with 55 mins of fluff and adverts, with a 5 min showing of the actual slides in the last segment.
And while i agree with some of the reservations re JM, at least he wont be coming at this from the angle of skeptic complete with obligatory giggle factor as you might see in some US productions
David Rudiak's 2007 review of Carey and Schmitt's Witness to Roswell offers a good overview of that book, not a replacement for reading it but a summary of the high points of coherent data that support the anomalous reality of the event.
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0607/witnesstoroswell.html
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0607/witnesstoroswell.html
DaveM
Paranormal Adept
I shouldn't have said 'the end of the movie.' The part where the humans are observing the ship's bay full of Alien eggs.
BoyintheMachine
Paranormal Maven
Heard this on a podcast and I completely believe it:
These people are carnies. If you buy a ticket (or pay to live stream) you are a rube.
I'm not giving a dime of my money to hungry con artists. As it stands now, assuming they sell out of the 10,000 seats available, they will make millions off of this.
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
Perhaps, we’ll just have to wait and see what hatches.
Ever since that particular fiasco every light assault carrier is now equipped with an ample supply of maple syrup and borax.
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Trajanus
Paranormal Adept
KDR's blog has been a great arena for the best informed skeptics and believers to duke it out. The latter have come out on top.
KDR was very objective. He rejected a great deal of testimony and came to write off some witnesses he initially accepted like Kaufmann. His book on UFOs in the '90s summed up his attitude. Despite all the nonsense about Roswell, the core case is still good.
Roswell has the latter two.
Stagger Lee
Paranormal Adept
Easy for us to make light of the late 40's/50's wave of disks- however, going by public statements from politicians to military officials (before the lid came down on the subject) -these guys were genuinely concerned about the reports from pilots scrambled to intercept these objects. Is it your opinion these pilots were chasing clouds that happened to appear on radar? While I agree radar was still in it's early stage, the confirmation from pilots cannot be dismissed. It is my opinion that once the military accepted that they could not counter the technology these objects displayed- it was in their best interest to deny but manipulate the public regarding the phenom, to advance cold war agendas.
Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFO's come from and what their purpose is...
Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter Director, Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950
This 'flying saucer' situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.
Gen. Nathan Twining Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any scientific explanation... I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nation on Earth." "I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from some extraterrestrial source.
Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, Commander-in-Chief of the Royal Air Force Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain, printed in Sunday Dispatch, London, July 11, 1954.
The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists, seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable. It is striking that so many have been trained observers, such as police officers and airline or military pilots. Their observations have in many instances... been supported either by technical means such as radar or, even more convincingly, by... interference with electrical apparatus of one sort or another....
-Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, Great Britain, 1973
I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on Earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion.... For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists and astronauts. I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this, but nobody wants to make them public.
-Colonel L. Gordon Cooper, Mercury and Gemini Astronaut, in an address to the UN in 1985 after announcing that he had seen and chased UFOs over Germany in the 1950s. Cooper also reported a greenish object, which passed by his capsule going east to west (opposite normal man-made orbits) while in orbit in May of 1963. The object was tracked by ground-based equipment in Perth, Australia. The press was told it could not question Col. Cooper on this aspect of the mission
It followed us during half of our orbit. We observed it on the light side, and when we entered the shadow side, it disappeared completely. It was an engineered structure, made from some type of metal, approximately 40 meters long with inner hulls. The object was narrow here and wider here, and inside there were openings. Some places had projections like small wings. The object stayed very close to us. We photographed it, and our photos showed it to be 23 to 28 meters away.
Cosmonaut Victor Afanasyev commenting on a UFO sighting that occurred while en route to the Solyut 6 space station in April of 1979.
Admiral Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter Director, Central Intelligence Agency 1947-1950
This 'flying saucer' situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious.
Gen. Nathan Twining Chief of Staff, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of which cannot be accounted for by any scientific explanation... I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not manufactured by any nation on Earth." "I can therefore see no alternative to accepting the theory that they come from some extraterrestrial source.
Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, Commander-in-Chief of the Royal Air Force Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain, printed in Sunday Dispatch, London, July 11, 1954.
The evidence that there are objects which have been seen in our atmosphere, and even on terra firma, that cannot be accounted for either as man-made objects or as any physical force or effect known to our scientists, seems to me to be overwhelming... A very large number of sightings have been vouched for by persons whose credentials seem to me unimpeachable. It is striking that so many have been trained observers, such as police officers and airline or military pilots. Their observations have in many instances... been supported either by technical means such as radar or, even more convincingly, by... interference with electrical apparatus of one sort or another....
-Lord Hill-Norton, Chief of Defense Staff, Ministry of Defense, Great Britain, 1973
I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on Earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over the earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion.... For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists and astronauts. I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this, but nobody wants to make them public.
-Colonel L. Gordon Cooper, Mercury and Gemini Astronaut, in an address to the UN in 1985 after announcing that he had seen and chased UFOs over Germany in the 1950s. Cooper also reported a greenish object, which passed by his capsule going east to west (opposite normal man-made orbits) while in orbit in May of 1963. The object was tracked by ground-based equipment in Perth, Australia. The press was told it could not question Col. Cooper on this aspect of the mission
It followed us during half of our orbit. We observed it on the light side, and when we entered the shadow side, it disappeared completely. It was an engineered structure, made from some type of metal, approximately 40 meters long with inner hulls. The object was narrow here and wider here, and inside there were openings. Some places had projections like small wings. The object stayed very close to us. We photographed it, and our photos showed it to be 23 to 28 meters away.
Cosmonaut Victor Afanasyev commenting on a UFO sighting that occurred while en route to the Solyut 6 space station in April of 1979.
How do humans deal with things they cant control ?
We Can Control How We Respond to Things We Can’t Control
denial, anger, fury, despair, numbness, isolation, desperation.
Denial is first on the list.
Its worth noting the mindset of the time, the allies had just won the second world war, were masters of the world in their minds eye, then they have a phenomena that they dont understand and cannot control pop up.
And its interesting that these human reactions denial , anger still crop up today in discussions about UFO's
Ive seen some outright hostility to the very thought ET might be here and messing with us. "how dare they", "if abductions are true, they are our enemys" etc etc
For others who spend too much time looking into the enigma and getting no answers, numbness and desperation aka burnout kick in.
Maybe there is a lesson in this for our species, If we are dealing with advanced sentients, then we need to accept we are not the Apex species we see ourselves as now.
We Can Control How We Respond to Things We Can’t Control
denial, anger, fury, despair, numbness, isolation, desperation.
Denial is first on the list.
Its worth noting the mindset of the time, the allies had just won the second world war, were masters of the world in their minds eye, then they have a phenomena that they dont understand and cannot control pop up.
And its interesting that these human reactions denial , anger still crop up today in discussions about UFO's
Ive seen some outright hostility to the very thought ET might be here and messing with us. "how dare they", "if abductions are true, they are our enemys" etc etc
For others who spend too much time looking into the enigma and getting no answers, numbness and desperation aka burnout kick in.
Maybe there is a lesson in this for our species, If we are dealing with advanced sentients, then we need to accept we are not the Apex species we see ourselves as now.
DissectionStalker
Paranormal Adept
TO: UFORADIO... WE need your help with this...
To: uforadio... PLEASE, check your INBOX...
Thanks for helping, please.
I actually posted a message to uforadio:
The Roswell Slides Steal the Show! | Page 12 | The Paracast Community Forums
You could try to PM him too!
LOL. Soooo, Dew got it wrong?
I heard it wrong? I'm not making this up... Dew said garage is where the trunk was kept for 10 years, and that is where the water damage occurred too.
(I am subject to the possibility of some incredible loss of memory accuracy, but I'll be shocked at my "memory abilities" if that is true. I'm fracked. I had a huge brain fart and stroked-out.)
DissectionStalker
Paranormal Adept
Wholly Crap! Now this trailer(???) has been removed too...
Did someone download this???
STINKS SCAM
Did someone download this???
STINKS SCAM
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stonehart
Paranormal Adept
Both very nice posts and I would totally agree.
an interesting point from personal experience on how people deal with this phenomena is a sighting I experienced with three other friends a few years ago.
Only one of them will talk about it with me and the other two simply will not engage in conversation about the incident.
In fact one of them gets damn right hostile if I bring it up.
Things that are that far out of most peoples view of the world and comfort zone are nearly always dealt with in the way you posted Mike and only a few curious types accept it then want to know more.
PS: By the way I am back, needed a little break after a few forum things.
Sub-light
Skilled Investigator
The link on the still shots of the G Cooper film doesn't work. BTW I don't think this puts anything to rest. People poke "holes" in all kinds of things; Evolution for example. That doesn't mean evolution is wrong anymore than poking holes in Gordon Coopers story makes him a liar or a kook.
Matt McClure
Paranormal Novice
I am currently researching this and want to add to Sentry's response a link to an article written by Jim Oberg, "In Search of Gordon's UFO's" In Search of Gordon Cooper's UFOs
It pretty compellingly puts three of Cooper's big stories into serious doubt. Oberg is a serious researcher from what I can tell. He typically works on/with NASA and Russian Space agency news, with decades of using primary sources. His website is here: Jim Oberg's Pioneering Space
My apologies if this is redundant. I'm just curious right now about the level of validity around Cooper's specific claims. And I'm scanning the forums for discussion on Cooper before I start a new one, to see what's been said.
Sub-light
Skilled Investigator
Not at all and I will look into this, it sounds interesting. I've actually spoken with Jim on the phone before regarding the Russian space program and I respect him as a solid researcher. However and ,not to sound paranoid as is often the case in the UFO world. Oberg was a NASA guy and is it possible that his job now is to turn our heads away from the subject?
The facts in Gordon's testimony are pretty clear. These men saw something that they didn't understand and they reported it to him. There were photographs taken. When he reported this, he was instructed by headquarters to send the photographs to them and discuss this with Nobody. He was not told that he could not look at it. What he saw was something that he could not explain and was not a conventional aircraft. Gordon Cooper had Clarence would have made it possible for him to know every type of aircraft being tested at Edwards. Clearly the reaction of his superiors made it obvious that this was not something normal.
You therefore are left with only three possible conclusions. He was lying about the whole thing. He was too incompetent to understand what was going on. Or this was a real event and that somewhere those pictures exist or existed. That doesn't mean that whatever he saw was from outer space but something unusual happened. It's interesting to note that this did not keep him from becoming an astronaut. He kept quiet and did his job and sent the pictures to headquarters and I don't believe all of this is a lie. It would be unsettling to think that one of our original seven astronauts was either a liar, incompetent or crazy. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that strange things were flying around between 1947 and then to at least the early 60s and that the Air Force knew about it. I am not a strong believer that a vehicle her ever crashed and that they recovered wreckage. I do believe that there is radar data. Written accounts we have never heard of, photographs we have never seen and other such information that we don't know about. People keep asking why don't they just admit what they know. And the answer is simple it would terrify people if they really knew what was going on. Because it either means that we will have been visited by some kind of strange beings with a strange technology or that the government does high strange stuff and doesn't tell people about it (including future astronauts and presidents etc.) that way it's obvious that it's in their interest to keep this out of the public eye plain and simple
The facts in Gordon's testimony are pretty clear. These men saw something that they didn't understand and they reported it to him. There were photographs taken. When he reported this, he was instructed by headquarters to send the photographs to them and discuss this with Nobody. He was not told that he could not look at it. What he saw was something that he could not explain and was not a conventional aircraft. Gordon Cooper had Clarence would have made it possible for him to know every type of aircraft being tested at Edwards. Clearly the reaction of his superiors made it obvious that this was not something normal.
You therefore are left with only three possible conclusions. He was lying about the whole thing. He was too incompetent to understand what was going on. Or this was a real event and that somewhere those pictures exist or existed. That doesn't mean that whatever he saw was from outer space but something unusual happened. It's interesting to note that this did not keep him from becoming an astronaut. He kept quiet and did his job and sent the pictures to headquarters and I don't believe all of this is a lie. It would be unsettling to think that one of our original seven astronauts was either a liar, incompetent or crazy. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that strange things were flying around between 1947 and then to at least the early 60s and that the Air Force knew about it. I am not a strong believer that a vehicle her ever crashed and that they recovered wreckage. I do believe that there is radar data. Written accounts we have never heard of, photographs we have never seen and other such information that we don't know about. People keep asking why don't they just admit what they know. And the answer is simple it would terrify people if they really knew what was going on. Because it either means that we will have been visited by some kind of strange beings with a strange technology or that the government does high strange stuff and doesn't tell people about it (including future astronauts and presidents etc.) that way it's obvious that it's in their interest to keep this out of the public eye plain and simple
Matt McClure
Paranormal Novice
"The facts in Gordon's testimony are pretty clear. These men saw something that they didn't understand and they reported it to him."
According to Jim Oberg, the photographers of the UFO on the lake bed say Gordon was not their superior at the time, and they didn't even know him yet. And they don't know why Gordon claims to have been present or part of that process.
"You therefore are left with only three possible conclusions. He was lying about the whole thing. He was too incompetent to understand what was going on. Or this was a real event and that somewhere those pictures exist or existed." I contend that there are infinite possible explanations as to why Cooper's testimony varies from the testimony of the photographers. You have listed three that you can think of. They are logical theories, but not enough nuance in them for me to get behind. I don't think someone has to be either a liar or incompetent to have a fabricated or exaggerated memory. Maybe Cooper knew of this event, and didn't think anyone else had access to it, and so when he told it he inserted himself to give it more credibility. I've done things like that. Maybe he WAS part of the chain of command through which the incident report passed, but the photographers didn't know that. Lots of little variations there make this contradiction possible.
The best of us are prone to psychological inconsistencies. Think of all the times he's told that story and not been questioned or challenged on the subject over the years. It might be easy for him to simply adopt the upgraded version without the perceived accountability. I know I'm much more likely to exaggerate a story when no one else is around that hole me accountable.
Anyway, I don't want to get lost in the weeds here. I just think that Jim Oberg's article paints an interesting and believable pattern of leaks in Gordon's anecdotes. But I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those photographers saw something remarkable and stand by it to this day. And Gordon is a competent man with decades of high security clearance and time spent in the skies and in space. Whether his stories are leaky or not, when he firmly "believes in UFO's" that means something to me.
According to Jim Oberg, the photographers of the UFO on the lake bed say Gordon was not their superior at the time, and they didn't even know him yet. And they don't know why Gordon claims to have been present or part of that process.
"You therefore are left with only three possible conclusions. He was lying about the whole thing. He was too incompetent to understand what was going on. Or this was a real event and that somewhere those pictures exist or existed." I contend that there are infinite possible explanations as to why Cooper's testimony varies from the testimony of the photographers. You have listed three that you can think of. They are logical theories, but not enough nuance in them for me to get behind. I don't think someone has to be either a liar or incompetent to have a fabricated or exaggerated memory. Maybe Cooper knew of this event, and didn't think anyone else had access to it, and so when he told it he inserted himself to give it more credibility. I've done things like that. Maybe he WAS part of the chain of command through which the incident report passed, but the photographers didn't know that. Lots of little variations there make this contradiction possible.
The best of us are prone to psychological inconsistencies. Think of all the times he's told that story and not been questioned or challenged on the subject over the years. It might be easy for him to simply adopt the upgraded version without the perceived accountability. I know I'm much more likely to exaggerate a story when no one else is around that hole me accountable.
Anyway, I don't want to get lost in the weeds here. I just think that Jim Oberg's article paints an interesting and believable pattern of leaks in Gordon's anecdotes. But I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Those photographers saw something remarkable and stand by it to this day. And Gordon is a competent man with decades of high security clearance and time spent in the skies and in space. Whether his stories are leaky or not, when he firmly "believes in UFO's" that means something to me.