TruTV Skinwalker Ranch Jesse Ventura's CT

[Polterwurst]

What makes Bigelow's opinion more or less valuable than anyone else? Because he has a lot of money?

Absolutely. He's got the means to conduct scientific studies of claimed "paranormal activity" with lots of people and high tech equipment. He can do what amateur researchers can't because they haven't got the money and what mainstream scientists won't do because of fear of being ridiculed.

Who cares what he thinks? I can't speak for Lance but I'm more interested in any hard evidence that he may or may not have, not his opinion. What he personally thinks isn't sufficient proof of anything.

Well, I care. But you're right, that's no proof (and I never said that). I think it's a crying shame he has "decided a long time ago" not to talk openly about the results. Even if he hasn't got much in the way of "hard evidence", I want to see and hear about all he's got. And to me personally, the fact that he doesn't just say "well it was all just a wild goose chase and nothing substantial came out of it" does mean something. But of course, that's just me.

 

[Muadib]

Absolutely. He's got the means to conduct scientific studies of claimed "paranormal activity" with lots of people and high tech equipment. He can do what amateur researchers can't because they haven't got the money and what mainstream scientists won't do because of fear of being ridiculed.



Well, I care. But you're right, that's no proof (and I never said that). I think it's a crying shame he has "decided a long time ago" not to talk openly about the results. Even if he hasn't got much in the way of "hard evidence", I want to see and hear about all he's got. And to me personally, the fact that he doesn't just say "well it was all just a wild goose chase and nothing substantial came out of it" does mean something. But of course, that's just me.

Do you think if there was nothing to it he would actually admit that? I seriously doubt it, he'd basically be admitting that he wasted a ton of money and time and nothing has come of it, which as far as I can see, is what has actually happened so far. Nobody wants to look like a fool in front of other people. He may have the means, but so far I've seen nothing substantial that has come out of this endeavor and it doesn't surprise me that instead of saying "well, I screwed up" and dealing a serious blow to his own ego, not to mention his reputation, he hides his lack of hard evidence behind a wall of secrecy. Maybe there's something to the claims and maybe there isn't but like a lot of people in this field he refuses to put up or shut up, it's just more of the same old stories with not much in the way of actual evidence behind them.

You also kind of contradict yourself in the above statement. You say he has the means to conduct a scientific study that other researchers don't, yet you don't care if he has hard evidence? What's the point of conducting a scientific investigation of anything if it doesn't lead to hard evidence? If all you want are interesting stories about aliens and ghosts you can get those anywhere. You don't need science or a lot of money for that.

 

[Polterwurst]

Do you think if there was nothing to it he would actually admit that?

Obviously not, as he wouldn't want to look like a fool. But he would also have given up on the project a long time ago, if there hadn't been some evidence, instead of wasting more time and money. To save his reputation and regain some respect from mainstream science and media, he could even have joined the debunkers and told the world "I have proven that there is nothing to these claims once and for all". People like Mr. Shermer or Bill Nye would love it and want to interview him on it. Instead he continues "wasting money" and "make a fool of himself" as you would have it. Sorry, doesn't add up to me.

You also kind of contradict yourself in the above statement. You say he has the means to conduct a scientific study that other researchers don't, yet you don't care if he has hard evidence?

That's a misunderstanding. I actually care a lot if he has hard evidence. In fact, as I thought I made clear (but as english isn't my first language, I sometimes have problems with that), I'm quite disappointed that he just won't allow any results or evidence to be published.

Additionally, Bigelow may also be predisposed to believe paranormal claims without questioning them and think that he does have great evidence.

I think it's quite obvious that he is into the paranormal and UFOs and in my own opinion, there's really not much more to it (no off-world conspiracy here I guess). Still, he is in a position to find out more about these claims than most people before. And I absoultely doubt that he is not questioning them. If he was already convinced, he wouldn't have to spend so much money on investigating this stuff and instead of employing real scientists and following the data to wherever it leads (which I think is what he is doing) , he would surround himself with charlatans who just tell him what he wants to hear. The man made a fortune in real estate business. I just can't image someone like that being gullible and credulous.

Arthur Conan Doyle, for instance, made a fool of himself with his vast credulity.

The Cottingley fairies? That was really out there. Maybe it had something to do with him getting on in years and the loss of his son, as it has been speculated. But in earlier years, he was questioning things, too, I guess. I read a novella by him (forgot the title, I'm afraid, but I think it was right out of his experience with the SPR) where he describes a scientist and SPR investigator getting thoroughly fooled by a self-proclaimed (and as it turns out, fake) psychic.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

O'Brien's claim is that Robert Bigelow controlled the editing of theTRUTV program.

No Lance, that's NOT my claim. I never said that. Putting words in my mouth again, as usual. BTW: I don't appreciate you spinning my asides out-of-context. Fact is fact/humor is humor—no matter how ironic, (or, in your implied view of me, moronic...) Whether you want to admit it or not, Lance, money DOES have it's privileges—but you and I wouldn't know about how that works, would we? But, since you want to belabor this into a point of contention: Yeah, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that turned out to be the case. I have stated in several venues that the segment ended up being edited as if Bigelow's guy's were editorially-involved/signed off on the final product—as it was broadcast. I was told the show segment had been changed more than once by the network from what the show's producers had envisioned in their edit. Funny how sometimes coverage of controversial subjects change, and why this happens, etc...

We'll have fun taping your guest appearance tomorrow...

 

[Polterwurst]

Oh man... forget about Obama vs Romney, Rocky vs Drago and Luke vs Darth Vader.... THIS is going to be the clash of the titans...

 

[Frank Stalter]

I have stated in several venues that the segment ended up being edited as if Bigelow's guy's were editorially-involved/signed off on the final product—as it was broadcast. I was told the show segment had been changed more than once by the network from what the show's producers had envisioned in their edit. Funny how sometimes coverage of controversial subjects change, and why this happens, etc...

We'll have fun taping your guest appearance tomorrow...

If that is the case, it would be the case because the show developed information that has not been out there before. Bigelow has done interviews, he hasn't been quiet about his interest in UFOs and the whole MUFON escapade got plenty of attention and the show itself didn't bring anything new other than having Bigelow briefly on video. Frankly, these hour long shows don't go into the depth and nuance that could actually inform people so they can have time to drive around in SUVs and use night vision cameras and hop fences and build up later segments of the show that more often than not, don't deliver. The on camera interview, brief as it was, actually delivered. The show is clearly aimed at people who don't follow all this very closely and they pushed common knowledge in certain instances as if it was some hot scoop. So my main question is what, if anything, did this program dig up that didn't make the final cut?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...my main question is what, if anything, did this program dig up that didn't make the final cut?

OK, here's just a small sampling: Mention of (or at least brief descriptions of) the variety and intensity of unexplained phenomena reported by (eyewitnesses on the ranch) and/or the world-class team of scientific investigators at the ranch. Case in point: the NIDS camera filming the camera that had its wires forcebly yanked out while being filmed by the other camera but no evidence on tape of how this was accomplished. A simple nod to the book Hunt For The Skinwalkers (why wasn't this important book never mentioned?!) Mention of George Knapp, Colm Kelleher (ex-NIDS managing director) and veterinarian pathologist Dr. George Onet. How about the cattle mute that happened in broad daylight, while the rancher was less than 1/8 of a mile away in the same pasture? NIDS investigators were on site later that same day and did a complete scientific investigation! How about mention of the Native American traditions about the area? What about multiple eyewitnesses sightings of a "dog man" leaping from roof-to to roof top (Dec 2009)—two miles up the road in town, and the investigation other "dog-man" sightings? Or how about a more in-depth look at a corroborated rumor of at least one violent death on the ranch... All these subjects/incidents and many more were covered in Ryan Skinner's and my interview, (3+ hours), but never mentioned...

Need any more topics, that's just the one's off the top-of-my head, I got a bunch more...

 

[Frank Stalter]

OK, here's just a small sampling: Mention of (or at least brief descriptions of) the variety and intensity of unexplained phenomena reported by (eyewitnesses on the ranch) and/or the world-class team of scientific investigators at the ranch. Case in point: the NIDS camera filming the camera that had its wires forcebly yanked out while being filmed by the other camera but no evidence on tape of how this was accomplished. A simple nod to the book Hunt For The Skinwalkers (why wasn't this important book never mentioned?!) Mention of George Knapp, Colm Kelleher (ex-NIDS managing director) and veterinarian pathologist Dr. George Onet. How about the cattle mute that happened in broad daylight, while the rancher was less than 1/8 of a mile away in the same pasture? NIDS investigators were on site later that same day and did a complete scientific investigation! How about mention of the Native American traditions about the area? What about multiple eyewitnesses sightings of a "dog man" leaping from roof-to to roof top (Dec 2009)—two miles up the road in town, and the investigation other "dog-man" sightings? Or how about a more in-depth look at a corroborated rumor of at least one violent death on the ranch... All these subjects/incidents and many more were covered in Ryan Skinner's and my interview, (3+ hours), but never mentioned...

Need any more topics, that's just the one's off the top-of-my head, I got a bunch more...

It's a one hour TV show with a lot of flash and very little substance . . . .

I mentioned a couple things myself that if they had done their homework, they could have/should have, covered. They were busy giving their nod to Alex Jones. We can debate the quality of the research and the presentation but that's par for the course. All these shows come up short for a lot of reasons and it seems that more recently they keep coming up shorter and shorter. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the final product got squashed because it was too hot. You worked with them and I didn't, but I don't think the people behind this show would know hot if it gave them 3rd degree burns.

 

[Decker]

Okay, I have been reading this thread that seems to go no-where, so if you all don't mind ... gonna jump in here for a second.

When Knapp and Colm Kelleher's book "Hunt for the Skinwalker" came out, my wife and I reviewed it for UFO Magazine. We drove over to Las Vegas and had dinner with Knapp and talked about this for hours with him. For all intents and purposes, I begged Knapp to speak to Bigelow to get me permission to go to the ranch and spend several days there. Knapp said he did speak to Bigelow later and was not able to get me permission.

The night we were with Knapp he was pretty plain that he had to sign a NDA and there was stuff he was not permitted to speak about. I was not sure how the ethics of a journalist to report what they discovered and what was witnesses would mesh with a NDA ... but there it is. I knew another fellow, a well known scientist, that also worked there with NIDS for a short time prior to NIDS being closed down. He was also very hinky about speaking to me "off the record" with what he experienced. He seemed almost "worried" about saying too much. So, my upshot is this ... do I think it is possible that there were and still are some very strange things going on there? Yes. Can I prove it without spending my own time there? No, I can't. Do I think that Bigelow is with holding all this information for his very own purposes? Yes I do. Do I think Bigelow gives "one soft or one hard shit" what the rest of us think about that? No I don't.

End of story.

Decker

 

[Ron Collins]

My second favorite part of the show was when Oliver Stones son took a deep breath and paused for a minute while he invited the spirits to come out. Of course that was after he was ghost tasered in the leg after leaping over the gate and casually strolling down the road. Oh, and the robot radio thing that just seemed like completely staged BS.

Far and away my favorite parts were every scene with June Sarpong! She is the only reason to watch that show. Oh, and I find it particularly good if you fast forward to her parts and only then take it off mute!

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

"My guess is that Bigelow said hey, I want see the edit and then I get to take out whatever I don't like about it....

"My guess is..." is a far cry from "Robert Bigelow controlled the editing of theTRUTV program," as you have spun my languaging. I choose my words carefully, Lance... so please, again, don't go putting words in my mouth!

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Good on Bigelow for getting the nod from the USA Government if that's the case he is a businessman who building hotels in space it seems by the evidence and I think the show is more laughable than anything else for majority of the audience is not bothered about UFO stuff more interested in what new on gossip channel. Private industry has always worked close in hand with so called governments look at Dutch East India Company who share holders were global. Private corporations answer to no one except share holders when it suits the agenda.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

My second favorite part of the show was when Oliver Stones son... was ghost tasered in the leg after leaping over the gate and casually strolling down the road. Oh, and the robot radio thing that just seemed like completely staged BS.

I don't know about the "ghost laser" but when he returned after trespassing onto the ranch, he seemed a bit shook up.

I was also there and witnessed the car radios going off into that weird digital-voice interference. It happened simultaneously to all three vehicles and it went on intermittently for almost 15 minutes. Of course they recorded the whole time period and cherry-picked out the few spooky words that were used in an effort to maximize the drama. It wasn't staged (to my knowledge) and it was pretty strange. Of course they picked the best parts woo wooo...FWIW-I've never heard the likes of it before or since.

I thought the show was a poor imitation of what they appeared to be producing throughout the preproduction and filming process. I've worked with dozens of production companies and helped produce and/or appeared on dozens of shows about the "paranormal" over the years and I know how the game is played. This show ended up being right next to the fish market--forget downwind of Denmark! I have never heard the disclaimers and backpeddling like I heard from a very frustrated producer a couple of months before the broadcast of this show. At least they had the courtesy to clue me in beforehand... But don't listen to me, what do I know? Lance seems to have it all figured out... the Sherman Ranch case is nothing but bullshit, and he'll be the first one to tell you how deep the BS goes. Lance knows, and the rest of us don't know diddly! That's why a multi billionaire spent millions of $$$ to have world-class scientists study the location and has done his best to cover they whole thing up and water down what little has been leaked, etc

 

[ProphetofOccam]

"My guess is..."

Chris, saying things like "I guess" doesn't prevent the well from being poisoned, can you guys agree on that? I think Lance's problem with what was said, and he'll let me know if I'm wrong, surely, is that you presented your opinion, regarding a conclusion, without seemingly having the grounds for that opinion, let alone a strong enough case for that opinion to report on it as a journalist, to a public forum. Basically, you appeared to report information, as a journalist, for which you seemingly had no evidence or grounds.

I am assuming that, from your perspective, you were informally speaking on a matter of personal experience. That's somewhat fair, but you do have to keep in mind that people regard you as a journalist, a researcher, and respect you as a guy of his word. When state things of this nature in a forum where people's perceptions of these images of you are amplified, you're poisoning the well somewhat and leading the thoughts of listeners in a particular direction that you may not mean to.

End of story.

That'd be unfortunate.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Chris, saying things like "I guess" doesn't prevent the well from being poisoned, can you guys agree on that? I think Lance's problem with what was said, and he'll let me know if I'm wrong, surely, is that you presented your opinion, regarding a conclusion, without seemingly having the grounds for that opinion.

I choose my words carefully and stand behind them. I was told by one of the top producers at the production company that is responsible for production of the show that the post-production process was compromised. I cannot prove why that was, but if I were to guess, what happened (without quoting anyone, or putting anyone's job at risk) I would say that the show was changed drastically by the network from what was originally intended by the producers. Why that was will never be admitted to by anyone, but my guess is way better than yours or Lance's or anyone else who was not directly involved with the production of the episode.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Was it a wild ass guess like almost all of your pretend "research" or were you "pretty sure"?

As real as your debunker agenda masquerading as feigned skepticism.

So Lance you're saying that my 20 years of field investigations and research has been "wild-ass guessing" and "pretend research?" Tell that to the hundreds of people I've worked with, the cops, ex-military guys, the veterinarians and hundreds of witnesses who've gone on the record and signed legal forms for permission to quote them. You are one funny dude who is really coming across as desperate and shrill. Guess we touched a nerve, right there 'ol buddy... lol You need to go out and have a good time, dude... not waste your time with the likes of us lowly "true-believers." LOL Go back to the Randi randy circle-jerk and amuse your friends and fans, but after we tape our show...

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

So then it's the network now? Is that your claim and not Bigelow?

No claims, just "wild ass guessing." As most of us know, the network has the final say about what is broadcast or in this case, produced for their channel (duh). The production companies are hired by the network. I didn't think I needed to state the obvious... Take a chill pill, go play, we'll talk like adults tomorrow---if you're able.

 

[Frank Stalter]

It seems to me the biggest compromise the show made was when they decided to put some focus on the ranch and some focus on Bigelow, but didn't allow themselves enough time to do either subject much justice. I will give them credit for getting a mike in Bigelow's face and like I said before, he did seem taken aback and I don't think he's enough of an actor for that to have been "worked."

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs when I have to use old pro wrestling terminology to describe events on what should be straight-up investigative documentaries.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Chris, I wasn't attempting to commentate on whether or not your position was valid, but what it seemed like to an outsider. I understand that you choose your words carefully, and you definitely labeled your statement a guess. All I meant to illustrate is that you are a lot of people's sole source of information regarding the situation with the show -- people who view you as a journalist -- so when you make guesses on air, you can sway thinking.

Whether that's for better or worse, on a case by case basis, I offer no commentary. I pointed it out so that you could better understand Lance's possibly mistaken perception of your otherwise potentially innocent on-air commentary.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

I would also like to point out to everyone that the show (The Paracast), while somewhat journalistic in presentation, is a show. Like any show, it's supposed to be entertaining. If Chris wants to take a second to offer an entertaining, intriguing guess as to how or why the TV show was edited a particular way, it's his duty as an entertainer to do that -- whether he identifies as an entertainer or not.

It's going a little too far to mince these kinds of words from the show (The Paracast). Absolute statements are one thing, adding a little flare to the show with his personal opinion, founded or unfounded, is an expectation of the position and challenging those kinds of statements is probably more distracting than effective.