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Tsunami Debris

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I find humor in lots of things and tend to make the best of bad situations. My sincere apologies to you and anyone else that found my comment offensive.
 
Anything you can watch or read about the ongoing Chernobyl disaster is extremely relevant to the present situation in Japan in my opinion. It is the same thing at every level.
What we see is a denial by officials resulting in an inadequate response leading to a unmanageable ongoing nuclear catastrophe that has nothing but the potential to get worse as the cycle of denial and inaction throws it further into a cascading series events with irreversible global consequences.

Question: Would a properly sized nuclear explosive disintegrate the cores and rods in the fuel pools at Fukushima? Could a clean nuclear weapon eradicate most of the material or would it just spread it around further? I wonder if someone with access to the data has already run the numbers on that in the Pentagon somewhere or if that is just too far out to even be seriously considered.
 
fighting fire with fire is very effective, i wonder if it would translate to this application as trainedobserver asks.
 
i think there are about 50 nuclear reactors in japan... um.. smoke em if ya got em.
 
One of the saddest things to me is the pollution not only of the earth, but of the sea. The ocean is "god" to me. I have always felt as if I were standing on the edge of infinity when I was at the shore. To close my eyes and meditate, say a little prayer and just look out at the horizon has always given me peace. So, when I think of the debris washing up on the Alaskan coast it really bothers me. I have been to the Continental Divide and the top of Pikes Peak. I've seen the smoky moutains and I grew up in the foothills of the Applachians. But, there is nothing (to me) like the ocean. I don't personally believe aliens seeded life on this planet. I don't personally believe it is random chance either. But, if there are "people" out there that have a claim on the earth other than us. They must be really pissed at the damage we have done.
 
mike said:
My gut feeling is the lack of "disclosure" regarding this mess is because if they broadcast the truth the result would be chaos.
Its a war of the worlds panic scenario, but it aint the martians thats coming

There is a definite cover up going on at multiple levels.

What bothers me the most is the idiocy of building reactors on the rim of fire, when the rim of fire itself offers limitless geothermal power generating potential.

I have this horrible vision of the Australian navy having to sink boatloads of people by the millions in an act of such desperation as to beggar belief.

Australia is a very large island, but we cant take the entire population of the northern hemisphere if reactor 4 melts down.
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I am with you on this.. sorry people but the guns will come out and we will have to shoot if it comes to that.
 
˙ǝzısdɐɔ puɐ ɹǝʌo dıʇ oʇ puɐןsı ǝɥʇ ʇuɐʍ ʇ,upןnoʍ noʎ 'ɐǝpı poob ɐ ʎןqɐqoɹd
 
mike said:
My gut feeling is the lack of "disclosure" regarding this mess is because if they broadcast the truth the result would be chaos.
Its a war of the worlds panic scenario, but it aint the martians thats coming

There is a definite cover up going on at multiple levels.

What bothers me the most is the idiocy of building reactors on the rim of fire, when the rim of fire itself offers limitless geothermal power generating potential.

I have this horrible vision of the Australian navy having to sink boatloads of people by the millions in an act of such desperation as to beggar belief.

Australia is a very large island, but we cant take the entire population of the northern hemisphere if reactor 4 melts down.
Click to expand...
trainedobserver said:
Imagine being a refuge from the country that poisoned the world.
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mike said:
Thats a good point, And who wants to burden their healthcare/hospital system with millions of radioactive people who will invariably develop medical problems as a result of their exposure
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My post could have been made on the Fukushima thread, and I am certainly not discounting the gravity of the disaster, but many nations are working on the problem since it happened, and the three articles below quite ameliorate some of the predictions on that thread and this one. On this thread, too, there is the comment "sorry people but the guns will come out and we will have to shoot if it comes to that."

I taught in an Asian country right out of college, and these kinds of comments frighten me a bit on several levels. My two oldest sons are half-Asian. Nothing is alleged here, just the stridency of the remarks, and I present here evidence to the contrary.

Fukushima’s doses tallied : Nature News & Comment

worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/26/11896155-weakened-fukushima-nuclear-pool-is-not-unstable-japan-insists

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/fukushima-workers-deaths-radiation-16414384#.T8OPctw192E

Again, I'm not discounting the horrific nature of this disaster, just that I think these predictions have for some time been tenuous at best. In fact, I've never seen in my reading analysis of the nature of these comments, but I may have missed something, of course. These articles are quite recent.

I post this in the hope of a civil discussion, as that is my only intention. :) Kim
 
Kim323 said:
Again, I'm not discounting the horrific nature of this disaster, just that I think these predictions have for some time been tenuous at best. In fact, I've never seen in my reading analysis of the nature of these comments, but I may have missed something, of course. These articles are quite recent.

I post this in the hope of a civil discussion, as that is my only intention. Kim
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Do you believe that workers at Fukushima have not died and will not be dying in the future from exposure?

You can find any number of articles that down play the dangers and ignore the accumulative long term effects of nuclear radiation. I have read and watched things from both sides of the argument. There are several blogs and youTube channels of people inside Japan reporting on this and reporting on in country news. I've posted some of those in these various Fukushima disaster threads. You get a little different picture from those. Arnie Gunderson is another good source of information that presents what I believe to be, a more realistic picture of what has happened and is happening at Fukushima.

As far as the world's reaction to a possible influx of Japanese refugees-- I do think some of the comments are a bit exaggerated. If worse comes to worse isn't it more likely to follow the pattern we are seeing now? Many in the older generation will not leave. The poor of course will not be able to leave. Those who do leave will probably have money and places to go for the most part. Massive evacuations using military and commercial planes are possible of course but would they happen? Hasn't the U.S. military pretty much evacuated their people from the island already? I know they were flying families out days after the accident. I think we'll all have to sit up and take notice if Tokyo has to be evacuated. I certainly hope none that will happen (large scale evacuations) but given the situation, it seems highly likely to me.
 
No, it doesn’t have to be large. Unit 4 has been shaken many times already.
If the pool got cracks after another earthquake and the water started to leak out, Dr. Koide said that would be the end.

The end for a wide area including Tokyo
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Asahi TV: “Unbelievable” — If Unit 4 pool gets a crack from quake and leaks, it would be end for Tokyo -Expert — Doesn’t have to be large tremor, already shaken many times (VIDEO)

Note the video in this has been taken down along with the user account
 
You have to ask yourself, "Why is there such a disparity between what is being reported about Fukushima from these various sources?" On one hand we have the "Don't worry, it is within safe limits and under control." crowd and on the other "Global disaster is imminent."

The article "Weakened Fukushima nuclear pool is not unstable, Japan insists" just shows how absurd all of this really is. They have thrown a tarp over the thing and are taking steps to shore up the pool now after how long? We can believe TEPCO and the Japanese government because they have been so truthful in past? We can trust them to handle the situation because of how well they have handled it so far? It seems a stretch to do so.


 
I am glad that those quotes I highlighted were acknowledged as "exaggerated." They were quite strident. And may I say, the tarp you mention, Rick, was not there to hold in the radiation.:) Of course, quite more sophisticated measures have been taken and are being taken to insure against the tragedy that, in the words of another poster, could be a "life extinction event for the whole world." The comments about the Australian navy killing "millions" of refugees "from the country that poisoned the world" and that "the guns would come out" were way over the line on several levels.

My reassurance to members who may live near American nuclear plants, whom I encouraged not to run screaming from their houses to buy potassium iodide was not advice heeded by many in the world who were ingesting all sorts of things containing iodine, including quite a lot of swallowed iodine antiseptic solution. The World Health Organization issued a report attesting to this and the overreaction.

So, I want to make myself clear: my purpose in my post above was to confront some pretty wild quotes and predictions with evidence.

I certainly do not discount the tragedy that happened. However, I've been reading a lot of rather detailed scientific stuff, now that more than a year has elasped since the tsunami, that is in sharp contrast to what popular culture in the form of youtube presents.

The levels of radioactive caesium, iodine, strontium, and others have consistently been downsized. There were no mass evacuations of military personnel. An American aircraft carrier changed course somewhat, but the reaction of American military bases was not anywhere the response as alleged.

Though tragic, of course, the effect on Japanese workers has been highly exaggerated. Tests have been run and still are ongoing throughout Japan, extensive ones that are truly amazing in their scope of testing children, rooftop scrapings, ground samples, water samples, and if you read about them you will see that they show that the situation is not even remotely as portrayed on the forum.

So, yes, Rick and Mike, I agree that this is a true tragedy, but not nearly as horrific, even barely remotely, as some of the posts have shown.

And, regarding American nuclear plant safety, I've certainly set those allegations to rest, I would hope. Kim:)
 
Kim323 said:
I am glad that those quotes I highlighted were acknowledged as "exaggerated." They were quite strident.
...
And, regarding American nuclear plant safety, ...
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Kim, you strain a gnat and swallow the camel. You are so concerned about a few comments made in a little read forum on the Internet yet you are willing to ignore the incredibly upsetting evidence that we have been repeatedly lied to concerning the magnitude of the Fukushima disaster and the safety of the nuclear industry in general.

Kim, I really think that anyone who downplays this incredible disaster and the price future generations are going to pay for it at this point is in extreme denial. While I hope that you are right, I think the evidence points to the contrary.
 
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