UFO Design

[Thomas R Morrison]

Anyway, I found this interesting witness account. Witness watched UFO against clear blue sky, while wearing polarizing glasses and he had seen several dark rings around UFO's circumference. Interestingly, rings appeared to be static, as by formed with standing waves. Dark rings seen trough polarizing glass would imply presence of magnetic field, so called Faraday's effect.

Does anybody knows, can gravitomagnetic field cause polarization of the light, same as the magnetic field?

That’s a fascinating account; excellent find DROBNJAK. Yes, gravitomagnetic fields rotate the polarization of light, an effect called gravitational Faraday rotation:

“Detecting gravitomagnetism with rotation of polarization by a gravitational lens,” Sereno, 2005
2005MNRAS.356..381S Page 381

But as we were discussing earlier, it’s mighty hard to imagine a gravitational field so intense that this effect would be readily apparent to the naked eye through a pair of Polaroid sunglasses.

It takes vastly less energy to produce a polarization effect with a magnetic field acting on the air – especially humid air, via the Faraday effect – here’s a nice video of it (

). I’m not sure if the reported “rings” of polarization in this case indicate a series of shells, or if it’s just an artifact of the fixed size of the polarization grating. An optical physicist may be able to answer that question, and even estimate the intensity of magnetic field required to produce the effect observed. You’ve already noted the common occurrence of electromagnetic field effects in proximity to these unexplained craft. So once again I feel compelled to arrive at the unpopular hypothesis that there’s an as-yet-unrealized link between electromagnetism and gravitation, which these craft are exploiting.

Today we have an excellent theory that quantifies the magnitude of the gravitational field associated with mass-energy in an ordinary state – but we have no idea whatsoever how mass-energy produces the spacetime curvature effect that we observe. And until we have a theory that describes that coupling, we can’t rule out the possibility that it may be possible to produce gravitoelectromagnetic effects with vastly smaller energies than we now presume are required. We just recorded a podcast about a brilliant new 6D physics theory (with two dimensions of time + four of space) by Itzhak Bars at USC that predicts changes in the gravitational constant at phase changes of matter.

So there may well be a breakthrough in our understanding of gravitation that will be as unexpected and revolutionary as the discovery of electromagnetic induction. I can’t even estimate the number of nights I’ve stayed up trying to figure out a new experimental approach to resolve that question – but I have little doubt that it will seem very simple and obvious in retrospect, like most fundamental technological advancements.

I don't think you can figure out a complex craft's propulsion system by external observation. It's like a caveman looking at a motorbike and saying it's pushed along by smoke coming out the exhaust pipes.

Well, it might not be possible to figure out all of the details that way, but certainly we can learn a great deal by analyzing scientific observations, which is what I find so exciting about Chris O'Brien's mobile ufo observatory project. Think of it this way - just seeing that these peculiar performance characteristics are possible, is a huge step in the right direction. Similarly, Leonardo da Vinci figured out the basic principles of aerodynamic flight by observing birds:
Codex on the Flight of Birds - Wikipedia

We've learned that field propulsion is possible by observing ufos. We might learn far more by observing other physical effects associated with these craft. Paul Hill's book is a testament to this approach.

In fact I often regard these sightings cases as alien contact - it's visual contact with what appears to be an extraterrestrial technology. And in many cases their flight characteristics appear to be intentional aerial demonstrations of the capabilities of their propulsion system, as if these performances are for our benefit. Even a casual analysis strongly suggests a gravitational field propulsion technology at work. I wonder how long it would've taken to consider this possibility, if not for the ufo sightings reported by witnesses.

We should collect as much clear and varied observational evidence as possible, to see what we might learn about them. That's the scientific method. And if we've heard correctly, this is exactly what the military did as soon as sightings became widespread in the late 1940s: high-speed cameras installed on interceptor aircraft (and probably all kinds of magnetometers and infrared cameras as so forth as well over time), cinetheodolites installed at military installations for estimating speed and altitude and trajectory changes. Just as we've learned the intricacies of the Sun's internal processes through external observations, the same may be possible with sufficiently precise and varied observations of ufos.

 

[DROBNJAK]

I don't think you can figure out a complex craft's propulsion system by external observation. It's like a caveman looking at a motorbike and saying it's pushed along by smoke coming out the exhaust pipes.

Oh, I was thinking a lot about that exact question. Only I was using as example a tribesman from Papua New Guinea. Not an ordinary tribesman, but one with a degree in physics.

Papua New Guinea tribesman can reverse engineer a car or a motorbike, which he had never seen before in his life, as long as he adheres to known laws of physics. And he can do that without ever lifting the engine's bonnet.

But I wouldn't want to go into that here, because it would create huge diversion for the original thread.

Now with UFO it is just a question of luck. It really depends on how many internal causes leave outside effects for us to decipher.

Theoretically, at least, we know that UFOs comply with General Relativity (GR) and that they create gravitomagnetic field for propulsion, not the worp drives. GR provides at least one theoretical solution that can propel UFO, a heavy metal ring rotating about minor axis close to the speed of light. As engineering problem that's completely far out.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Yes, gravitomagnetic fields rotate the polarization of light, an effect called gravitational Faraday rotation:

But as we were discussing earlier, it’s mighty hard to imagine a gravitational field so intense that this effect would be readily apparent to the naked eye through a pair of Polaroid sunglasses.

It takes vastly less energy to produce a polarization effect with a magnetic field acting on the air – especially humid air, via the Faraday effect – here’s a nice video of it I’m not sure if the reported “rings” of polarization in this case indicate a series of shells, or if it’s just an artifact of the fixed size of the polarization grating. An optical physicist may be able to answer that question, and even estimate the intensity of magnetic field required to produce the effect observed. You’ve already noted the common occurrence of electromagnetic field effects in proximity to these unexplained craft. So once again I feel compelled to arrive at the unpopular hypothesis that there’s an as-yet-unrealized link between electromagnetism and gravitation, which these craft are exploiting.

I just wanted to be sure, because of the system of elimination. We still can't decidedly say if these dark rings were caused by magnetism or by gravitation. We just know that light was polarized. Ray Standford noticed similar polarization but on color film. Now, rings were most likely spheres and than the outer edges of the sphere would simply have longer path for light through polarized medium and appear darker. Similar way to soap bubble that has an apparent thin dark rim for the same reason.

Magnetic fields around UFOs in flight are gigantic, to say at least. We are talking of fields that are able to permanently magnetize Aluminum and even wood. Anything far above 100-200 Tesla at a source. Weather these fields are used for confinement of spinning liquid metals, or for coupling with gravitation or something else its hard to say.

Now, the most important thing clue that we should try to decipher, is that the dark rings appeared fixed. As if they were stationary waves. As far as I now stationary waves can only form between two constraints and here, we only have one constraint, UFO as know source. What else can cause these waves to be stationary?

Today we have an excellent theory that quantifies the magnitude of the gravitational field associated with mass-energy in an ordinary state – but we have no idea whatsoever how mass-energy produces the spacetime curvature effect that we observe. And until we have a theory that describes that coupling, we can’t rule out the possibility that it may be possible to produce gravitoelectromagnetic effects with vastly smaller energies than we now presume are required. We just recorded a podcast about a brilliant new 6D physics theory (with two dimensions of time + four of space) by Itzhak Bars at USC that predicts changes in the gravitational constant at phase changes of matter.

Well, it might not be possible to figure out all of the details that way, but certainly we can learn a great deal by analyzing scientific observations, which is what I find so exciting about Chris O'Brien's mobile ufo observatory project. Think of it this way - just seeing that these peculiar performance characteristics are possible, is a huge step in the right direction.

Yeah, I already done lots of research on EM-G coupling. Subject is sparsely written about and bit hopeless. GR just puts EM & G into the same framework, but it doesn't let them interact. Einstein tried EM-G coupling with Unified Field Theory (UFT), but it fails in a strong coupling regime. Two other prominent physicist publishing in this domain are Dr. Takaaki Musha and Dr. Boyko V. Ivanov. They both seem to have found some EM-G coupling in GR and proposed some experiments. I am preparing GR extension for the thread with references, so I'll include them there. Tim Ventura from American Antigravity site had lots of podcasts on UFT.

As well as usual suspects: Podkletnov, Ning Lee, Martin Tajmar on the science side, and Hutchitson and Searl on the amateur side.

As well, there are persistent rumors in a physics community. As soon somebody starts talking about GR he turns around and self-censors himself. Really curious.

 

[withoutlimits09]

I don't think you can figure out a complex craft's propulsion system by external observation. It's like a caveman looking at a motorbike and saying it's pushed along by smoke coming out the exhaust pipes.

Ray Stanford can! LOL

 

[DROBNJAK]

Please help, where am I wrong?

I was watching this video about Belgian UFO flap. In particular this moment when F-16 locks onto UFO at 7,000ft. UFO than drops to 6,000ft and climbs to 11,000ft. I measured with stopwatch and it took UFO 5 seconds to climb 5,000ft.

Than I checked the official climb rate for F-16 and it was 50,000ft/minute, or 833.3ft/sec. It follows that F-16 would be able to climb 5,000ft in about 6 seconds.

So, what I am getting is that UFO and F-16 have very similar climb rates and no UFO pilot would be crashed by this maneuver.?

 

[Azz7092]

Please help, where am I wrong?

I was watching this video about Belgian UFO flap. In particular this moment when F-16 locks onto UFO at 7,000ft. UFO than drops to 6,000ft and climbs to 11,000ft. I measured with stopwatch and it took UFO 5 seconds to climb 5,000ft.

Than I checked the official climb rate for F-16 and it was 50,000ft/minute, or 833.3ft/sec. It follows that F-16 would be able to climb 5,000ft in about 6 seconds.

So, what I am getting is that UFO and F-16 have very similar climb rates and no UFO pilot would be crashed by this maneuver.?

Very interesting, I'm sure we have all read similar reports about certain UFO's leaving certain Airframes well behind this could be called "toying" with our aircraft unless of course there are "black ops programs " that could explain the similarities you describe for the high evasive manoeuvres but limited speed which definitely could be linked with some sort of Human pilot.

But some chases usually start with "toying" then move on to rapid manoeuvres followed by really high speed Exfiltration out of the atmosphere or into the horizon.

When i was in Afghan 2007 i was doing Pred watch on a target and when the time slot had run up for the Predator it was Exfilling back to base, we noticed it being followed by a bright white light we still had comms with the Pred driver i got him and his GEO guys to start trying to PID ( Positively Identify) the object, they could not PID the object, the object then started behaving erratically like the only way to describe the movement was it moving back and forth like KITTS Eye from Knight rider. i asked the driver to switch to Infra red and used the FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared) Pod and asked to sparkle the TGT with a laser which he could not as the object was moving far to fast the Flir pod revealed just heat coming from the centre of the Object. There was just 3 people in the Ops room as it was 0300 hrs the phone rang and was picked up by our Canadian custodian who is always there to help us in case we do something we should not, just as she put the phone down and a high ranking American official came bursting in and asked as Politely to get the FUCK OUT as we were not American personnel and not to discuss with anyone what had transpired.

After that we never saw that Canadian Custodian again but we knew she had A few months left in theatre.


I have more stories about some weird goings on out there.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Also remember who oversaw the Candian special ops during and after WW2.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Yeah, UFOs love our military, and our military loves UFOs.

What I was trying to say, that Belgina UFO could had been just another F-16 zooming up and than down? Just a thought.

Although, the scientist, who was top military radar asviser to Belgian government and NATO, said that "the object" was doing right angle turns under constant speed. These manoeuvres were recorded from different angles by four military radars, two ground stations and two on the jets.

@Azz7092 is there possibly more detail into how was that object moveing, except just back and forth? Sorry I watched Knights Rider long time ago.

But back to UFO-Military love. There is a great series of YouTube videos by Richard Hill, an outstanding UK UFO investigator. In these videos he interviews a soldier who worked in after-UFO clean-up unit. Unit was based in Cambridgeshire, UK and it is about 20 men. Alegedly NATO has 4 units like that. One in US, one in UK for Western Europe, one in Europe and one in Australia. These units are tasked with cleaning up the evidence after UFOs lend somewhere. There is more to the story, but its quite gruesome.

 

[Azz7092]

Yeah, UFOs love our military, and our military loves UFOs.

What I was trying to say, that Belgina UFO could had been just another F-16 zooming up and than down? Just a thought.

Although, the scientist, who was top military radar asviser to Belgian government and NATO, said that "the object" was doing right angle turns under constant speed. These manoeuvres were recorded from different angles by four military radars, two ground stations and two on the jets.

@Azz7092 is there possibly more detail into how was that object moveing, except just back and forth? Sorry I watched Knights Rider long time ago.

But back to UFO-Military love. There is a great series of YouTube videos by Richard Hill, an outstanding UK UFO investigator. In these videos he interviews a soldier who worked in after-UFO clean-up unit. Unit was based in Cambridgeshire, UK and it is about 20 men. Alegedly NATO has 4 units like that. One in US, one in UK for Western Europe, one in Europe and one in Australia. These units are tasked with cleaning up the evidence after UFOs lend somewhere. There is more to the story, but its quite gruesome.

Was moving from left to right very rapidly like a zig zag motion.

 

[Azz7092]

Yeah, UFOs love our military, and our military loves UFOs.

What I was trying to say, that Belgina UFO could had been just another F-16 zooming up and than down? Just a thought.

Although, the scientist, who was top military radar asviser to Belgian government and NATO, said that "the object" was doing right angle turns under constant speed. These manoeuvres were recorded from different angles by four military radars, two ground stations and two on the jets.

@Azz7092 is there possibly more detail into how was that object moveing, except just back and forth? Sorry I watched Knights Rider long time ago.

But back to UFO-Military love. There is a great series of YouTube videos by Richard Hill, an outstanding UK UFO investigator. In these videos he interviews a soldier who worked in after-UFO clean-up unit. Unit was based in Cambridgeshire, UK and it is about 20 men. Alegedly NATO has 4 units like that. One in US, one in UK for Western Europe, one in Europe and one in Australia. These units are tasked with cleaning up the evidence after UFOs lend somewhere. There is more to the story, but its quite gruesome.

I have worked in top notch units and from around the globe and in UK i have high clearance and never heard of a "clean up" team but that could be because I'm not in that particular "NEED TO KNOW" bracket.

also there was a incident in northern Iraq with a Close Protection team where they were being watched and then chased by tall beings in a WADI (Dry River Bed) described as Tall Greys but again nothing substantial.

There was also something that crashed about 20 Clicks south of Kabul back in 2009 i watched it crash it was like a giant Fireball i thought it was a meteor or something to that effect but we were instructed not to go after it and the Americans were dealing with it, could of possibly been a spy satellite.

 

[DROBNJAK]

Human mutilation stories are really gut wrenching. Most likely they are the reason for the whole UFO coverup. Here is the video. I hope its one that contains interview with a soldier from the clean-up unit. Anyway, its a good show.

 

[Trevor Wozny]

Millenium falcon in the baltic sea..?

That is a rock. Samples have been taken. Do you think a craft that can traverse space will be solid granite?

 

[Trevor Wozny]

>> There has been zero observational data demonstrating gravity nullification as an effect anywhere in the observable universe.<<

While that is true, many things exist only as man made. There are no spontaneously made AC electric motors in the observable universe.

Some modification of gravity does exist in a form of gravitational lenses.
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Lets stay on the firm ground.

If we keep away from unproven mathematical poetry, like string theory, parallel universes, traveling back in time etc. and stick with mundane commercial grade engineering physics, than by the tried-and-tested and 100 years old Special Relativity, gravity is simply curvature of space-time. Lets not forget that Special Relativity is used in everyday gadgets like GPS and satellite communications and it is quite a plain vanilla for those who know how to use it.

Whatever Gravity is, it is very unlikely that UFO electromagnetic effects have nothing to do with producing UFO's modified gravity. One can read various papers published by Bruce Maccabee and Ray Stanford that illustrate strong presence of EM fields.

Design of any flying machine, like aeroplane or UFO, will always be constrained by imperative to save weight and increase payload. UFOs are designed to cross wast voids between stars and they can not afford to carry fancy stuff of no use. Gravitational effects that UFOs produce are restricted to a small area in a vicinity of the craft. UFO's modified gravity is not spreading out further than 1 or 2 UFO diameters. Contrary to that, UFO's EM effects can be felt many miles away.

In other words, it takes UFO a lots of EM to create a very little gravity modification. Hypothetically, but within a reason, we might assume that ratio of the EM's energy to Modified Gravity's energy is similar to the ratio of UFOs mass devoted to EM vs UFOs mass devoted to modified gravity. For example if we have 30 tons UFO, than we can say that 29 tons are used for EM energy and maybe 1 ton is used for modifying gravity. Now, this is only a very crude, probably wrong working assumption, but importantly very down to earth, without any fancy stuff.

A chief aerodynamicist of McDonald Douglas, Paul Hill, estimated a weight of 10m (30ft) UFO close to 30 tons. That UFO would be beaming EM field strong enough to stop car's petrol engines from 100-200m (300-400ft) away. We are simply talking about levels of EM power that is the same order of magnitude as the output of a whole hydroelectric dam, packed in a single 10m craft. There was even a case, in Portugal, of 3m (9ft) UFO actually knocking a hydroelectric dam's generator for few hours.

What I am trying to illustrate is that EM output is so huge, it can't be just a side-show. A very large percentage of UFO's mass is devoted to creation of EM energy. So it must be of some use in modifying gravity. Otherwise UFOs wouldn't waste so much of its mass to lumber heavy EM components accross distances measured in light years.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
There are few primary considerations here. Foremost, we are dealing with a statistical analysis. Witnesses reports might not be exact, but undeniably contain statistically significant trends that are firmly grounded in known lows of nature.

Second, we have to assume that all the UFOs are not made in the same factory. As it is unlikely that we are the only developed species in universe, it is equally unlikely that there is only one more developed species. Most likely there are dozens of civilizations that are flying their crafts around in variety of UFO types. Some of them might use plasma, some will not. Some of them will use landing gear, while others will not etc. etc. But 99% of them manifest gigantic EM fields.

So we have few hundred of physical observations by witnesses and maybe a dozen of different UFO types. We have no choice but to use statistical approach here and count how many times each observed physical effect featured in witness testimonies.

Unfortunately for the flames that @marduk mentioned, I only know of two cases where flames were seen, in comparison with hundreds, if not thousands of observed EM effects.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Regarding the repulsive field, it actually appears in few cases as the most prominent observation. But it appears that they are always either on the ground with engines off or flying close to the ground ready to land, when repulsive field is in action. Repulsive field is new to me, because I was only aware of cases with attractive modified gravity field.

UFOs seemingly don't care about the air drag at all. They have at leas two methods to deal with it: plasma and possibly repulsive field.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
UFOs have plasma around themselves, there is no second guessing about that. They simply manage that plasma carefully enough to avoid short circuits and lightning bolts to the ground. That would be easy even with our own engineering.

Now the fact that electric field and plasma are off when UFO is about to land gives you one very important clue. Because UFO is still hovering above the ground when plasma is off (to avoid lightnings into the ground), that means that electric field doesn't have big role in creating modified gravity. That would mean that modified gravity is mostly related to magnetic field.

Now, just this single detail is consistent with General Relativity. Because one of 24 differential equations in GR describes direct connection between gravity and magnetism.
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Now, this is why it is worth carefully studying UFO physical effects. If one follows clue after clue, he or she can finally discover how to "take ET back home" as Ben Rich, Lockheed Martin's CEO once said.

Many, many assumptions. Good effort.

 

[Azz7092]

Human mutilation stories are really gut wrenching. Most likely they are the reason for the whole UFO coverup. Here is the video. I hope its one that contains interview with a soldier from the clean-up unit. Anyway, its a good show.

I have tried to get in touch with Mr D Hall on various occasions about RAF St Athan s I'm based there and have been since the beginning of my unit in 2006 and there is no north side of the camp as claimed in this podcast there is only east and west camp thats it.

I truly think that this a fabrication made up by some one.

 

[the_great_attractor]

That is a rock. Samples have been taken. Do you think a craft that can traverse space will be solid granite?

No.
I do actually know that millenium falcon is just a spaceship in a movie called star wars..
So now you know to!

 

[DROBNJAK]

There has been zero observational data demonstrating gravity nullification as an effect anywhere in the observable universe.

Yes, there was, but I can not talk about it. All I can say that there is a physical proof and that it complies with Newton's theory of gravity and GR.

 

[Erno86]

I would like to point out one obvious defensive, aerodynamic characteristic shape of a flying disc: It doesn't have any extended wings or a tail too shoot off. A flying saucer could be shot full of holes, and it still could be possibly airworthy; as long as it's main propulsion and guidance systems weren't knocked out.

 

[Randall]

I would like to point out one obvious defensive, aerodynamic characteristic shape of a flying disc: It doesn't have any extended wings or a tail too shoot off. A flying saucer could be shot full of holes, and it still could be possibly airworthy; as long as it's main propulsion and guidance systems weren't knocked out.

Hmm, never considered that before. Plus if you go with the standard domed top, then all surfaces except the bottom are at deflective angles, which reduces the force of impact. I remember reading about one sighting where the witness says a saucer actually grazed a rocky mountain outcrop and just kept on flying as if it had simply sliced through it. Personally I think the story sounds far fetched. I mean, they can fly circles around military jets, but that damned mountain just couldn't be outmaneuvered!

 

[Erno86]

I betcha a ET flying saucer starship, can easily slice through the ocean depths, like a hot knife through Normandy butter.

 

[Randall]

I betcha a ET flying saucer starship, can easily slice through the ocean depths, like a hot knife through Normandy butter.

Here's a video of a MUFON Director who specializes in underwater UFOs.