UFO Investigator Jeff Ritzmann to Reveal Personal Experiences on The Paracast

[Siani]

I didnt take anything you said as offensive. No, I don't blame you at all...in fact for years I didn't believe experiencers. I didn't connect my own weird instances to the UFO/alien subject, maybe denial, maybe just being oblivious to the high wierdness in connection to the subject. After all, the general public is by in large unaware of just how bizzarre the experience is.

Thats because so-called researchers know people wouldnt buy it if they went into that aspect. Thats where I have a huge issue with UFOlogy, because within that high weirdness, I personally see connective tissue to other "paranormal" events...and inside that we might find some other directions, or maybe even a little piece of the puzzle.

This is exactly my own stance on the whole thing. That's why I just take it in my stride if someone chooses to disbelieve me. I really can't blame them for not understanding. I don't understand either!

 

[jritzmann]

That's why I just take it in my stride if someone chooses to disbelieve me.

Thats my stance as well. I dont get it, so why should anyone else. The only thing I don't tolerate is being called a liar or being outright disrespected. As long as people are articulate and respectful about it, it doesnt bother me. I can certainly "get" why people wouldnt believe it.

 

[Hoffmeister]

Well thats just it, i kind of do believe it, i do believe you.... but my head tells me its not possible.
Its kind of like how David says you feel when you see something paranormal. Your eyes tell your brain its there, but the brain refuses to believe and hence adrenalin rush.
Thats kind of what it was like when i saw a whopping great big black triangle i suppose as well.
I've also seen three aliens standing at my door, and a screaming ghost fly out of my leg, but I put these down to sleep paralysis. Although many people on forums have tried to convince me that what i saw was real I don't believe it.... so its not just your experiences i have trouble with

 

[jritzmann]

Hoff-
I don't know if this will make it any easier, but I was told this a long time ago about this whole weird ass subject:

"There is FAR more to life then we've been led to believe."

We obviously see this. More people out there are seeing it. And science is beginning to see it. That this reality...life...being...whatever, is far and away more bizarre then we ever thought.

These experiences I've had, are more real to me then sitting here typing this. It's more real then real. This reality is numb by comparison.

 

[Gareth]

Well thats just it, i kind of do believe it, i do believe you.... but my head tells me its not possible.

See, my head in this instance tells me its not probable, or not something Ive ever heard before.

But I always allow for the possibility of possibility.

 

[valiens]

See, my head in this instance tells me its not probable, or not something Ive ever heard before.

But I always allow for the possibility of possibility.

Jeff made a really great point about this. In fact, it is to my mind the best new point for one or all of us to explore, which is that the "alien abduction" subject is far broader and weirder than the vast majority of books allow, because even strangeness needs a cap to appear real. And so that narrative we've been reading about alien doctors doing experiments...that narrative is either partially or totally false.

We need to flesh this out more, gents, if we can find guests who can speak to it credibly.

I'm pretty sure I wrote it before but let me be clearer: I think Jeff's life better reflects the average "abductee." It's not against the grain, it's the unedited version. I think about that and realize it's time to put the term "alien abductee" to bed. It just doesn't cover enough of what this is.

 

[Ally]

Let me add to Jeff and Jeremy's great posts that not only is the alien abductee phenomena weirder and covers much more territory than the "office vist" in the "space ship "most of the time it doesn't even appear to be an alien involved. I think a new term and a new multi-disciplinary "science" is needed to look at this phenomena.

 

[Gareth]

Well thats just so frustrating. I mean, who draws this invisible line of weirdness in the line and stops everyone from crossing it?

Were all for trying to understand some truth here. And if we cant understand it we can at least be told the full story. Hearing half truths and edited accounts just serves to propel us down the wrong line of thinking, and sometimes even action.

 

[0uterj0in]

most of the time it doesn't even appear to be an alien involved. I think a new term and a new multi-disciplinary "science" is needed to look at this phenomena.

Yes. We need to figure out what experiencers have in common.

This reality is numb by comparison.

I've felt this way ever since I dropped acid in high school.

 

[David Biedny]

And if we cant understand it we can at least be told the full story. Hearing half truths and edited accounts just serves to propel us down the wrong line of thinking, and sometimes even action.

Some of us are here under our real names. We turn up in Internet searches. We have careers, friends, lovers, and are not willing to put everything on the line in order to satisfy anyone's desires to understand this stuff. I'm getting really tired of this sense of entitlement that so many people have - "you have to tell me everything because I WANT to know, my NEED to know overrides YOUR need for discretion". Well, very sorry, speaking for myself, I'll reveal as much or as little as I feel is appropriate, and I don't think I owe ANYONE an explanation for my actions. I appreciate that folks enjoy the show and these forums, but they are provided without warranty of any sort. I understand your frustration, and all I can say is that now you have a better idea of how many of us feel about what we've seen and experienced.

dB

 

[Gareth]

This seems lke an appropriate thread to talk about something I just heard. I occasionally listen to Karen Dolans podcast, primarily for the once-a-month roundtable episode with Rich and Peter Robbins. I downloaded this other episode with a researcher who presented a talk at the Roswell conference this year about calling the name of Jesus and stopping abductions - some times for good!

So Karen interviewed this guy. he truly believes that ALL abduction and related encounters are by fallen angels or demons, and that by calling Jesus' name you can stop it. This concept has been discussed on of Jeremys shows too I think, so its no entirely new.

But the way he presents it as so absolultey true really annoys me. Once again we have someone who claims to KNOW whats going on just because hes got some testimony. Im not saying that the testimony is incorrect, but so much data is needed before jumping to any conclusions. For all I know, it could be the power of the mind... these witnesses may be religious people with a lot of faith in what theyre told by the church etc, and that conviction might be the reason it works. I could belong to the churh of "Those cookies from Subway", and maybe if I believed enough and yelled out "subway cookie" in an abduction it might have the same result.

The dude then went on to say that in the case where abductees encounter the 'Nordic Types' in their experiences... well these Nordic types are simply better at concealing their true identity and this allows them to play good-cop, bad-cop with them being good and the Greys being the bad cop. He didnt speculate or postulate - he said it was so!

 

[Gareth]

Some of us are here under our real names. We turn up in Internet searches. We have careers, friends, lovers, and are not willing to put everything on the line in order to satisfy anyone's desires to understand this stuff. I'm getting really tired of this sense of entitlement that so many people have - "you have to tell me everything because I WANT to know, my NEED to know overrides YOUR need for discretion". Well, very sorry, speaking for myself, I'll reveal as much or as little as I feel is appropriate, and I don't think I owe ANYONE an explanation for my actions. I appreciate that folks enjoy the show and these forums, but they are provided without warranty of any sort. I understand your frustration, and all I can say is that now you have a better idea of how many of us feel about what we've seen and experienced.

dB

Actually, you completely mis-interpreted what I was saying. I was speaking to this:

Jeff made a really great point about this. In fact, it is to my mind the best new point for one or all of us to explore, which is that the "alien abduction" subject is far broader and weirder than the vast majority of books allow, because even strangeness needs a cap to appear real. And so that narrative we've been reading about alien doctors doing experiments...that narrative is either partially or totally false.

We need to flesh this out more, gents, if we can find guests who can speak to it credibly.

I wasnt talking about you or Jeff or Jeremy or anyone on these forums. I was speaking of the general community and specific books dealing with the subject. I guess what you said can sort of apply, but I meant if a book claims to present accounts of abduction encounters and all the rest, but omits details that may shed more light on the situation then I find that frustrating.

Specifically, I wasnt talking about getting more, more and MORE, but if a particular story or account is presented that leaves out details that may have some bearing on the actual truth of the larger scenario, then that is frustrating. And I believe is what Jeremy was talking about.

As for feeling entitled about hearing stories from yourself David, and others, well I defintely dont for one minute feel that I have a right to know and am entitled to know. Id love to hear more and have absolutely tried to convince you by pointing out that its the only way some of us who have never experienced anything can learn about this stuff, but thats as far as it goes.

 

[Hoffmeister]

Specifically, I wasnt talking about getting more, more and MORE, but if a particular story or account is presented that leaves out details that may have some bearing on the actual truth of the larger scenario, then that is frustrating. And I believe is what Jeremy was talking about.

I don't think there is a researcher or bookwriter in the world who truly does this, and to be honest i'm not even sure its possible. The closest is Rich Dolan but I'm currently reading his book and whilst all of his research is based on fact, I have already seen a few instances where he provides certain bits of infomation as if to suggest they are 100% true but actually there is a lot more to the story.
For example he mentions the letter from Guy Hottel and FBI agent to President Hoover describing how his air force source spoke of 3 crashed disks being recovered and lots of bodies also. Reading it you're like "holy shit, the smoking gun!", but Dolan just continues on to the next chapter without even analysing it. It turns out that the what he was saying was potentially 8th hand information passed through non military personnel.
To me, it as if this information is clearly presented in a way that will sensationalise the story.

Having said all that, Dolan is a great researcher, a great guy, an intelligent guy, and probably the best the field has to offer, but it goes to show that not only would it take people forever to include every piece of infomation on their topics, but also that many people have their own bias's anyway so often accidentaly overlook certain details.

 

[Gareth]

Huh?

Im talking about abduction and other encounters with high strangeness left out.

 

[Hoffmeister]

well my point was that we can't always include all the infomation.
Which abductees have been missing information out?

 

[Aaron LeClair]

On the flip side, keep in mind there are many people wanting to attach all things to this ufo business, and in my estimate, look like the Kool-Aid dude. I forgot his name sorry.

Budd Hopkins, especially his early work, is what I respect. He had all sorts of shit come to him, and yes, he omitted some of it. Why? Because he wasn't sure if there was a connection with the topic he was writing about. I think that's great. Why include it, when there are pages to fill where you are more certain? I'll give some examples below.

If you say you don't know what's going on, be careful about criticizing others. If you don't know, then how do you know their omissions weren't sound? It's as if you know what other people should know, but when it comes to answers you fall short. And say I don't know, but this person is omitting things that I think might be part of the picture. Ok, get evidence for it. If you say, I can't, then don't blame some researchers for not jumping on the band wagon.

There's reasons to be cautious with theories. Some of us aren't sure if Bigfoot is connected. IF channeling is connected. If poltergeist are aliens. If crop circles are connected. It may be, but just because we don't jump on that "it's weirder than we can know" wagon, doesn't make us the enemy. Some of us are open, we just aren't as convinced that there is one single component. There may be different ones. All of people's weird experiences might not be from the same source. One source may open doors, perhaps psychically, or metaphysically to other so called paranormal phenomena. I have much more to say on the topic, but that's enough for now.

 

[Gareth]

well my point was that we can't always include all the infomation.
Which abductees have been missing information out?

Did you even read Jeremys post. He was talking about the idea that many people leave out the super weird or high strangeness parts of the stories. And I was talking about that too. Generally speaking.

 

[Hoffmeister]

Did you even read Jeremys post. He was talking about the idea that many people leave out the super weird or high strangeness parts of the stories. And I was talking about that too. Generally speaking.

Of course i read it... I still don't understand who is leaving high wierdness points out of their stories, and where we are getting the idea from that they are actually doing it. Most of the abductee reports i've heard are pretty wierd.

 

[Gareth]

Of course i read it... I still don't understand who is leaving high wierdness points out of their stories, and where we are getting the idea from that they are actually doing it. Most of the abductee reports i've heard are pretty wierd.

Its a continuing theme that the guys discuss, that people often leave the strangest parts out of their stories.

Most of the abductee reports i've heard are pretty wierd.

lol

 

[Hoffmeister]

Oh well, i've clearly not understood what everyones talking about lol.
If we are solely talking about how people shouldnt omit information due to being shy because its so wierd, i don't really think you can blame anyone