UFO Skeptic Robert Sheaffer

[dyingsun]

I don't think it's hopeless Constance, actually not at all. And why woul it be, we are not in the Era of 'Mad Men' (well, arguably, took the tv show as an example, bad example for the name alone seeing what's going on in the world right now...).We're her because something happend to us or/and we are looking for answers on some topic, that's all 'it is'.

 

[Constance]

Burnt, programs like yours are the only thing that will make a difference. May they spread to every corner of this planet. I know that you also counsel students who have been sexually victimized. More power to you and thank you.

 

[Burnt State]

For Fathers and Male Models: It starts with you it stays with him

Other great resources from The White Ribbon Campaign in Australia: White Ribbon - Australia's Campaign to Stop Violence Against Women

 

[Bananas]

Haha, how amusing. Now it's a passive-aggressive circle jerk. You lack the intellectual capacity to actually formulate a coherent arguemnt, and spew nothing but hyperbole, and then stop responding when you run out of as hominems.

You people are a joke, and should stick to discussing magic, channeling and crystals LOL

 

[Ufocurious]

Haha, how amusing. Now it's a passive-aggressive circle jerk. You lack the intellectual capacity to actually formulate a coherent arguemnt, and spew nothing but hyperbole, and then stop responding when you run out of as hominems.

You people are a joke, and should stick to discussing magic, channeling and crystals LOL

Gee Bananas
I have never thought you would go so low.
I should have ignored your comment, but I won't.
This forum is the only one I have ever seen populated with a vast majority of intelligent, educated, and well-mannered people.
Commentaries like yours make me sad.

 

[Bananas]

This forum is the only one I have ever seen populated with a vast majority of intelligent, educated, and well-mannered people.

I'm none of those things, as I've stated multiple times myself.

Argumentation is the only way to discern good ideas from bad ones and I enjoy it. Not to be right, but to be shown wrong and to evaluate my own ideas. However... the replies to my posts here have been nothing but personal attacks and hyperbole, and that makes ME sad. I'm not crying about it, just disappointed. My skin is thick enough to shrug it off.

EDIT: It does illustrate my earlier point about the dangers of ideology though. I take issue with certain ideas within the ideology and I get accused of condoning rape and sexism.

 

[Ufocurious]

I'm none of those things, as I've stated multiple times myself.

Argumentation is the only way to discern good ideas from bad ones and I enjoy it. Not to be right, but to be shown wrong and to evaluate my own ideas. However... the replies to my posts here have been nothing but personal attacks and hyperbole, and that makes ME sad.

EDIT: It does illustrate my earlier point about the dangers of ideology though. I take issue with certain ideas within the ideology and I get accused of condoning rape and sexism.

I will reread the thread, but I did not see attacks on you, but on your view. It is quite different. I have to leave now, but I will check.

 

[Burnt State]

Haha, how amusing. Now it's a passive-aggressive circle jerk. You lack the intellectual capacity to actually formulate a coherent arguemnt, and spew nothing but hyperbole, and then stop responding when you run out of as hominems.

You people are a joke, and should stick to discussing magic, channeling and crystals LOL

Generally speaking, when in the course of a discussion on feminism and people decide to resort to terminology like "whores" to describe any women it tells me that I'm not reaching them. To continue to respond only invites further aggression.

None of my comments have been written in anger but out of concern.

You brought up violence against men, specifically rape in prisons. When we talk about gender based violence it is a criticism of male violence for the most part. Who is in the prisons - most populations in nations are 80-90% male. Who is raping other men in prison, beating other men in fights, shooting them or knifing them on the streets - well it's predominately other men. So this is a male problem, just as sexual assault is a male problem. That's where Sheaffer and people who try to attack Feminism are wrong. There is a serious problem of male violence in society and we need to find a new way to raise our sons and promote a positive approach to masculinity.

I've tried to provide what those options are, resources and reasons why many other men continue to choose a feminist agenda for themselves in order to create a more peaceful and equitable society, free from violence and from playing out the same old stereotypes we've been living through for far too long. I've also tried to provide some very specific historical examples, and contemporary advertising and social media examples of the need for feminism in society. None of this is hyperbole. You should try reading those links instead of coming back with insult and sexist comments.

My personal revelation as a young man happened when I had to process the Montreal massacre: an angry man and a rifle enters a university, separates men from women, is angry that he couldn't get into engineering school but these women could. He yelled, "you're all a bunch of feminists" and then started his killing spree. These moments in history should wake men up just like the #yesallwomen campaign and it's origins. Sometimes it's when a woman you love/respect/care for tells you her sexual assault story and then that brings it even closer to home. As men, I also like to believe we can think our way logically out of privileged visions and learn to think a new way that embraces our female counterparts.

CBC Digital Archives - The Montreal Massacre - 1989: Gunman massacres 14 women at Montreal's École Polytechnique

 

[Bananas]

Generally speaking, when in the course of a discussion on feminism and people decide to resort to terminology like "whores" to describe any women it tells me that I'm not reaching them. To continue to respond only invites further aggression.

So, tell me, when a woman uses sex to get wealthy off of a man, what would the correct terminology be?

None of my comments have been written in anger but out of concern.

Thanks for letting me know. Of course, I never claimed anything of the sort in the first place.

You brought up violence against men, specifically rape in prisons. When we talk about gender based violence it is a criticism of male violence for the most part. Who is in the prisons - most populations in nations are 80-90% male. Who is raping other men in prison, beating other men in fights, shooting them or knifing them on the streets - well it's predominately other men. So this is a male problem, just as sexual assault is a male problem. That's where Sheaffer and people who try to attack Feminism are wrong. There is a serious problem of male violence in society and we need to find a new way to raise our sons and promote a positive approach to masculinity.

There is a serious problem of violence, full stop. When you only direct it at men, and ignore violent women, you become... ironically enough, sexist and... a hypocrite.

You should try going to a police station to report that you were hit by a woman. They'll laugh you out the door. Then, look up for your nearest shelter specifically for abused men. Go on, have a look. How often do you honestly think men report being assaulted by a woman? If everyone did, the statistics would look completely different.

I've tried to provide what those options are, resources and reasons why many other men continue to choose a feminist agenda for themselves in order to create a more peaceful and equitable society, free from violence and from playing out the same old stereotypes we've been living through for far too long. I've also tried to provide some very specific historical examples, and contemporary advertising and social media examples of the need for feminism in society. None of this is hyperbole. You should try reading those links instead of coming back with insult and sexist comments.

Child abuse statistics – Get the facts of Child abuse and neglect

"Approximately 40 percent of child victims were maltreated by their mothers acting alone; another 18.3 percent were maltreated by their fathers acting alone; 17.3 percent were abused by both parents (USDHHS, 2007)."

Look at all those horrible men being abusive. Do you know what the most common cause for mental health issues is? I'll give a hint, it has something to do with being short and it involves someone else being abusive.

My personal revelation as a young man happened when I had to process the Montreal massacre: an angry man and a rifle enters a university, separates men from women, is angry that he couldn't get into engineering school but these women could. He yelled, "you're all a bunch of feminists" and then started his killing spree. These moments in history should wake men up just like the #yesallwomen campaign and it's origins. Sometimes it's when a woman you love/respect/care for tells you her sexual assault story and then that brings it even closer to home. As men, I also like to believe we can think our way logically out of privileged visions and learn to think a new way that embraces our female counterparts.

So if a woman committed a massacre, you would become mysoginist?

Mass Murderers — Female Mass Murderers: Major Cases and Motives — Crime Library

Better go burn that pink bandana bro.

EDIT: Also, something you should keep in mind when reading my posts specifically. I don't care about political correctnes and I don't care about childish innuendos and insinuations. I say what I mean and nothing more. If I say A I mean A and only A. Well, with the exception of sarcasm, but that's a Finnish trait more than anything.

 

[Burnt State]

Look, @Bananas , I could get into it with you, but you're not interested in dialogue, just pushing forth a marginal view of women somehow as being equally responsible for violence in the world. And that is categorically wrong. I've done the decades of research in the field, have been working with men, women and various community institutions, police and health organizations directly for decades on issues of gender equity and understand clearly what type of work needs to be done - the increase of feminist dialogue that will support both men and women.

Yes men are domestically abused but not in ways that often require hospitalization or where a gun is used - that's what men mostly do, executing their partners. There's not relly that many female serial killers in the world up against men, really. Yes it's hard for men to report abuse and rape, but it happens on a much higher order to women and they have to relieve their ordeal so many times, be told it was their fault, what were they wearing? etc. - that they asked for it.

That same attitude that makes it hard for men to report personal abuse is what creates the environment for female sexual assault, so again, the answer to these issues is feminism, or an equal space where each can tell their story and not have to live up to the stereotypes of machine man and passive woman. You don't get it. Fine. You live your life your way, and I will continue to work on redefining masculinity and creating feminist dialogue. I don't think there's anything else left to say as reading your successive posts is depressing and I'm done with that kind of wasted energy. I've provided the good information. Consider reading it. You're not putting forth any valid arguments that make any sense or are things I haven't heard from other men before, who, for reasons unknown, continue to believe that feminism is emasculating instead of being empowering.

What's emasculating is other men telling other men they're not living up to the code of our fathers, and all the hidden pain and misery that comes with that. My dad wasn't the best dad, was abusive, had his own sexism, but I loved him anyways and saw him as doing the best he could with the tools he had at the time.

I've made different choices and work to try to give men new tools to work with to improve their lives and the lives of the women and children they interact with. I try to have compassion and understanding for other people's hatreds. I've got nothing left to say to you on this subject as you are not listening, or don't want to. This discussion with you is not personal for me. The discussion around feminism and positive masculinity is.

 

[Bananas]

You should change your name to "Hyperboleman" cause that's all you're spewing, again, with a hefty dose of straws to go with it cause you're just ignoring everything I said without even making the effort to address them.

I'll let you in on a secret. I love strong women. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who doesn't depend on others in any way, and doesn't simply parrot what she heeard, but actually *thinks*

 

[manxman]

One basic problem with 'feminism' is that as a whole it goes against the natural order, because a modern man already know's how to treat a modern woman, 'modern' meaning social conditioning from an early age of a woman's place in that society, modern or not.

Feminism during my lifetime has been usurped and perverted, Constance we are of the same age, are you better of now than your counterpart from 1960, whose husband's wage paid for everything, and there was still change left over, and you could be a full time mother, how has the baby-boomer's generation, who used feminism since the 60s to get women into the work place, along with the side-shows of equal pay etc etc, as carrot and stick incentive's.

We went during our life-time's thru a social upheaval, with an end result, that now single people cannot afford to live alone, couple's both have to work to afford a home and kid's.

It was a con, feminism used to make women think they have been empowered, that they are independent, when infact they were used to meet the increasing boomer's pension's time bomb, and as an untapped tax revenue, aswell as pushing up GDP, enabling the boomer's to borrow more, to print more money, to the point we are at now, wherethe currency value's mean work, work, and work some more, just to get by..


The result's of ''Feminism'' now reach's into every aspect of modern life, not just the narrow window of assault/violence committed against women.

I mean it has been perverted to the point that men are now extremely vulnerable to 'allegation'.

An example or 2 being here of an every day type of occurrence, and directly attributable to feminism.

Male bailiff cannot enter the house alone, to discuss car repossession from female debtor.

Male Doctor/policeman cannot examine/interview female patient/suspect without a nurse/colleague being present.

The list of 'vunerable' situations is now endless, all thanks to feminism.

The ''system'' of modern life has bent over so far backwards for 'feminism' it has crippled itself.

 

[Myself]

Correct me if I'm misreading your post Manxman, but are you blaming the women's rights movement for the decline in western civilization? Basically everything thing that is fiscally wrong in this country (IYO) can be traced back to women wanting to earn a living for themselves instead of depending on their husbands ? Did I get that right?

 

[Burnt State]

Yeah, it's just a bizarre discussion that seems to elicit extreme and surreal positions from supporters and detractors. The other thing I've learned is that working with younger people i.e. from grade school to those in their early 20's yields the best results as they are more open to discussion and discovery of new ideas. Harder to teach old dogs new things as they say...

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

I don't have a problem with the fact that Feminism has been hijacked at times in the history of it. That's human nature. Somehow we can find a way to even hijack feeding hungry children. It doesn't change the fact that a movement was needed to change a mindset. That movement has had many faces. It was tied to the "Leave it to Beaver" society, the civil rights movement, etc. On the edges of the movement were the extremes. Surprise, surprise. Having at the core of the movement the idea to teach women, girls and yes, men that the other half of the population could pursue life outside the kitchen was long overdue. That's branched out to CEO's, government, military, sports, specialized fields in medicine, science, etc. We've been better off for it in society. Feminism wasn't meant to answer all aspects of society. To bring up men being raped in prison by other men, although a huge issue, doesn't mean squat in a discussion of feminism. To bring up whether we've been raped enough on the statistic board to satisfy your idea of "worthwhile", screw you! I don't need your fuckin numbers to tell me whether I can stand up for myself in this society or not. But ....having a movement, that I grew up knowing was there, that hit the news, the kitchen table talk, that's what made it ok for me to reject the violence, the complacency amongst women that college was useless, or getting a job meant nothing but cheap pay at a factory. I have my own stories, non of which you'll hear here.
Manx, you point out the extremes. Your right. We always take an issue to far. Like the word, "politically correct." It's gone out to the south seas and back. Doesn't change the core intention does it? We had a backasswards society that needed a movement to change it, it's changing. We'll fine tune. We always do.

 

[manxman]

Correct me if I'm misreading your post Manxman, but are you blaming the women's rights movement for the decline in western civilization? Basically everything thing that is fiscally wrong in this country (IYO) can be traced back to women wanting to earn a living for themselves instead of depending on their husbands ? Did I get that right?

I was asking Constance a question as we are of a similar age, basically is a modern woman's existence/life, more rewarding and safer than their mother's live's in the 50s/60s, and are their children's live's better or worse.

As for the rest you either have poor comprehension skills, or you are on a wind-up.

Also even in this day and age, i will bet you will struggle to count on one hand the amount of women you know, who dont depend on a man to whatever degree.

 

[manxman]

Yeah, it's just a bizarre discussion that seems to elicit extreme and surreal positions from supporters and detractors. The other thing I've learned is that working with younger people i.e. from grade school to those in their early 20's yields the best results as they are more open to discussion and discovery of new ideas. Harder to teach old dogs new things as they say...

There's no border between feminism and human right's with your issue's tho burnt, feminism should be more focused.

male or female, sexual assault or violence is a human right's issue.

And as for equal rights, how many feminist's would stand back and say no, let a father take my place, if they were in a 'titanic' situation, where women and children were first to fill the only life boats.

My money is on not too many.

 

[Burnt State]

There's no border between feminism and human right's with your issue's tho burnt, feminism should be more focused.

male or female, sexual assault or violence is a human right's issue.

So while sitting in the bar as the news broke that this guy had just shot 14 women I turned to my friend and asked with indignance, "Why is it is important to say that it was women shot, why not say it was 14 human beings? That's just biased language," I remember hearing my inexperienced first year university sorry-ass, self-proclaimed poet spew.

At that time I though feminism was just about male bashing, like all my other friends did in high school. But he was patient and explained to me why it was critical that we acknowledge male hatred, as the killer had called out the feminists before killing them. My privilege was exposed. I did not have to worry the same way women worried about walking home late at night across campus. What he said challenged my previous notions about difference and what fairness meant. Those chromosomes determine a lot about how you will be treated in this lifetime.

That evening I was standing holding a candle in a circle with other students at a vigil in a room of many, many women and only three men. That experience altered me significantly as I looked around at many tears and asked myself where were all the other men? If this was a human rights event then surely we should all be there together, but no, this was apparently something that women felt much more than men did on campus.

Some violence is unique, has specific targets, means & motives and requires a unique response, Manx, and gender based violence is a term that means what it says, violence that is predominately carried out by society's traditional warriors, protectors and providers. But we are in a non-traditional world yet there's a lot of societies the whole world over that treats women in ways that very violent and far less than equal. So it actually is a male issue that does need the focus of men, and not just women fighting for basic things like pay equity or the right to vote and be safe walking down the street.

Treating people fairly does not mean treating them the same. It means that people must be treated according to their needs and requirements to achieve equity with others be ye, blind, deaf, transexual or diabetic. That's why we have different parking spaces for different people. Our human needs are different and determined by intersecting social markers.

So with all due respect to Heidi and the other sisters here, I direct these words to other men in hopes we band together again, women and men, both dong and ding,
to close a circle big enough that all
are welcome to take their safe place in,
so that they can achieve their own generous desires.

wish by spirit and if by yes

 

[Burnt State]

anyone lived in a pretty how town

E. E. Cummings, 1894 - 1962

anyone lived in a pretty how town
(with up so floating many bells down)
spring summer autumn winter
he sang his didn’t he danced his did

Women and men(both little and small)
cared for anyone not at all
they sowed their isn’t they reaped their same
sun moon stars rain

children guessed(but only a few
and down they forgot as up they grew
autumn winter spring summer)
that noone loved him more by more

when by now and tree by leaf
she laughed his joy she cried his grief
bird by snow and stir by still
anyone’s any was all to her

someones married their everyones
laughed their cryings and did their dance
(sleep wake hope and then)they
said their nevers they slept their dream

stars rain sun moon
(and only the snow can begin to explain
how children are apt to forget to remember
with up so floating many bells down)

one day anyone died i guess
(and noone stooped to kiss his face)
busy folk buried them side by side
little by little and was by was

all by all and deep by deep
and more by more they dream their sleep
noone and anyone earth by april
wish by spirit and if by yes.

Women and men(both dong and ding)
summer autumn winter spring
reaped their sowing and went their came
sun moon stars rain

 

[Bananas]

So you're saying being a woman is the same as being disabled?

(See, I can do it too)

I'm not actually angry or agitated at all about this discussion, I just find it humorous the way people get hysterical in this thread.


Also, sorry to go off track here, but what special considerations do diabetics need? Those with type 1 for example.