Was Bill Moore A CIA Agent?

[spacebrother]

Robert,

Thank you for your reply.

Any comments in your post addressed to Bill Moore will most likely will not be seen by him. I am not a go-between for Moore. My opinions are my own.

As I don't know Moore's side of some of these events, I am not in a position to accurately refute them, and will not make an attempt. I have not communicated with Bill in almost a year, and I'm not in position to answer all of your allegations of lies and skullduggery. Whatever one chooses to believe in your personal interactions with him seems to rest on your word against his, and no, I am not calling you a liar.

I suppose that your claim that you and others “forced” Moore into a confession awaits an admission from Moore himself that this was the case.

I doubt you could get any of the players you mentioned into court to testify under oath, but I would be very interested in the proceedings if you could. You might have a difficult time with anything related to (or claimed to be related to) "national security" and sources and methods.

You state in your "MJ-12 AFFAIR: Facts, Questions, Comments" that Moore admitted to "Hall" (Richard Hall?) that he had retyped or "cut and paste"d the Aquarius Document. As I stated in Project Beta, I was told that the original teletype was redone by someone else before being given to Moore, and he knew that it was edited.

Do you have any evidence that Moore was disinforming APRO? This assessment seems to rest on his admission in the MUFON speech that he was reporting on their activities and thinking. This is a passive activity, not a disinfo operation.

In “MJ-12 Affair” you reported that you seemed sure that Richard Doty was "Falcon." Your premise is that Doty admitted as such to Linda Howe. This was in the midst of passing her a wealth of disinfo. Why do you think that he would tell her the truth about his "code name?"

You also mention that one of the people associated with UFO Coverup Live! told you that Doty was "Falcon." How did this person get the information? Was it from Doty? If so, we are once again relying on Doty's word, which as you probably believe, is not always trustworthy. (I would tend to agree with you on this.) During a counterintel operation, he was probably authorized to say just about anything. Personnel on a TV program have no more access to government secrets than the rest of us.

As for yours' (and many other people's) suspicions that Moore was working for intelligence agencies, the answer is of course affirmative, and was discussed in detail in Project Beta. As far as I can tell, his actions were all concerned with getting UFO information from the U.S. Government. What he did (or was told to do) during this period was sometimes morally questionable or wrong, and I have no qualms about admitting this. Neither has Moore, at least to me, even though we don't share the same views on his actions. As I said, I don't know very much about any personal confrontations with other researchers.

I have no real quarrel with either Bill Moore, or yourself. What I was trying to do in my posts and book was present a hopefully objective look at the Paul Bennewitz affair. If it appears that I was biased or naive, I still think that this is a question of opinion. Many may not know that Moore did not agree with everything I wrote, but made no attempt to censor anything in the book.

The Bennewitz affair stemmed from an intelligence operation of which the UFO subject was only a very small part. My view of the whole episode is the lesson that UFO information released to researchers by the U.S. Government is fraught with problems, and would best be left alone, unless those involved are willing to sort through all the junk with patience and a keen eye and excellent memory. Most of it is worthless, but some of it may hold keys to understanding. FOIA requests from archives may be more helpful.

Did you once write a review of Project Beta? I seem to recall that you did (was it in the JSE?) One issue you brought up (if I am remembering correctly) is that I never revealed the reason that the Government had for stringing Paul Bennewitz along. That issue is addressed in multiple places in the text. I wrote a reaction to the review, but it was never published for some reason.

Please give my regards to Bob Salas the next time you speak to him. In spite of our disagreements, I think your work on UFO encounters at military installations may be one of the few important avenues to a better understanding of the phenomenon--far more than setting the record straight on interciene disagreements amongst UFO researchers. Which of these two headlines would catch more public attention?:

“UFO RESEARCHER SPREAD FALSE DOCUMENTS”

or

“UFOS ARE A MATTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY SAYS U.S. GOVERNMENT”


Best,

Greg

 

[Robert Hastings]

My response (in black type) to Greg's post above.

Robert,

Thank you for your reply.

Any comments in your post addressed to Bill Moore will most likely will not be seen by him. I am not a go-between for Moore. My opinions are my own.

Then perhaps you could forward my comments to him. I have nothing to hide. Moore knows I've got him nailed. Any further lies from him, denying my statements here, would only serve as additional ammunition for me to use against him in court.

As I don't know Moore's side of some of these events, I am not in a position to accurately refute them, and will not make an attempt. I have not communicated with Bill in almost a year, and I'm not in position to answer all of your allegations of lies and skullduggery. Whatever one chooses to believe in your personal interactions with him seems to rest on your word against his, and no, I am not calling you a liar.

Not so, as I have evidence for everything I've written. However, given that Moore would undoubtedly lie about everything once again (unless he has found Jesus) what's the point of going back-and-forth online? That's why a legal venue, where the risk of perjury is ever-present, is essential for establishing the facts.

I suppose that your claim that you and others “forced” Moore into a confession awaits an admission from Moore himself that this was the case.

That will never happen, methinks. I will leave it to the informed, unbiased reader to review the facts and to draw his or her own conclusions. The time-line pertaining to my MJ-12 exposé relative to Moore's pre-exposé actions and post-exposé actions tells the story. In fact, in his Las Vegas speech, he mentions that he came there to "kick butt" but thought better of it. Bluff of course, since he knew I had been on-target in my published commentary. In fact, he admitted to much of what I wrote, and Collins has more recently confirmed a good part of the rest of it.

I doubt you could get any of the players you mentioned into court to testify under oath, but I would be very interested in the proceedings if you could. You might have a difficult time with anything related to (or claimed to be related to) "national security" and sources and methods.

Given that the FBI has already determined that some of the MJ-12 documents are forgeries, and decided years ago that no leak of legitimate classified information occurred with the circulation of said "documents", the "national security" argument would fall flat.

You state in your "MJ-12 AFFAIR: Facts, Questions, Comments" that Moore admitted to "Hall" (Richard Hall?) that he had retyped or "cut and paste"d the Aquarius Document. As I stated in Project Beta, I was told that the original teletype was redone by someone else before being given to Moore, and he knew that it was edited.

Told by whom? Moore? If so, that's hardly reliable information.

Do you have any evidence that Moore was disinforming APRO? This assessment seems to rest on his admission in the MUFON speech that he was reporting on their activities and thinking. This is a passive activity, not a disinfo operation.

Moore confirmed that he was aware that the hoaxed Craig Weitzel letter, sent by Doty to the Lorenzens as "bait", was disinformation. Yet he said nothing to them. That's self-confessed conspiracy, in the legal sense, in Doty's disinformation operation.

In “MJ-12 Affair” you reported that you seemed sure that Richard Doty was "Falcon." Your premise is that Doty admitted as such to Linda Howe. This was in the midst of passing her a wealth of disinfo. Why do you think that he would tell her the truth about his "code name?"

You also mention that one of the people associated with UFO Coverup Live! told you that Doty was "Falcon." How did this person get the information? Was it from Doty? If so, we are once again relying on Doty's word, which as you probably believe, is not always trustworthy. (I would tend to agree with you on this.) During a counterintel operation, he was probably authorized to say just about anything. Personnel on a TV program have no more access to government secrets than the rest of us.

Perhaps it's been awhile since you read my paper. Doty's worthless word has nothing to do with it. The information came directly from Michael Seligman, the producer of the TV program, who filmed Doty in the guise of "Falcon." Moore initially denied my identification of Doty, saying that Seligman had been sworn to secrecy. Oh well, regardless, Todd Zechel had Seligman on tape, admitting that Doty was the person Seligman presented as "Falcon" in the program and, furthermore, Bob Collins was the person presented as "Condor." In fact, Collins has finally admitted that all of this was true. Haven't you read his and Doty's book? You seem to be out of touch with some of the more recent developments, Greg.

As for yours' (and many other people's) suspicions that Moore was working for intelligence agencies, the answer is of course affirmative, and was discussed in detail in Project Beta. As far as I can tell, his actions were all concerned with getting UFO information from the U.S. Government. What he did (or was told to do) during this period was sometimes morally questionable or wrong, and I have no qualms about admitting this. Neither has Moore, at least to me, even though we don't share the same views on his actions. As I said, I don't know very much about any personal confrontations with other researchers.

I have no real quarrel with either Bill Moore, or yourself. What I was trying to do in my posts and book was present a hopefully objective look at the Paul Bennewitz affair. If it appears that I was biased or naive, I still think that this is a question of opinion. Many may not know that Moore did not agree with everything I wrote, but made no attempt to censor anything in the book.

The Bennewitz affair stemmed from an intelligence operation of which the UFO subject was only a very small part. My view of the whole episode is the lesson that UFO information released to researchers by the U.S. Government is fraught with problems, and would best be left alone, unless those involved are willing to sort through all the junk with patience and a keen eye and excellent memory. Most of it is worthless, but some of it may hold keys to understanding. FOIA requests from archives may be more helpful.

Who was your source for the information about the intelligence operation? Was it anyone who has not been proven to be a liar? That leaves out Moore, Doty, and Collins.

Did you once write a review of Project Beta? I seem to recall that you did (was it in the JSE?) One issue you brought up (if I am remembering correctly) is that I never revealed the reason that the Government had for stringing Paul Bennewitz along. That issue is addressed in multiple places in the text. I wrote a reaction to the review, but it was never published for some reason.

That was not me. It was Robert J. Durant, whose excellent commentary nicely summarized how you and Nick Redfern have been expertly misled by your "sources."

Please give my regards to Bob Salas the next time you speak to him. In spite of our disagreements, I think your work on UFO encounters at military installations may be one of the few important avenues to a better understanding of the phenomenon--far more than setting the record straight on interciene disagreements amongst UFO researchers. Which of these two headlines would catch more public attention?:

“UFO RESEARCHER SPREAD FALSE DOCUMENTS”

or

“UFOS ARE A MATTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY SAYS U.S. GOVERNMENT”

The problem, Greg, is that legitimate data is being polluted by boolsheet. For example, as I mentioned in a post on another Paracast Forum thread, Exopolitics guru Michael Salla recently wrote an article in which he cited my well-documented work on the UFO-Nukes Connection and, one paragraph later, mentioned the totally bogus story of Eisenhower meeting face-to-face with aliens at Edwards AFB, at which time the aliens were supposedly attempting to get Ike to cancel the upcoming Bravo H-bomb test. As far as I am aware, that story originated with liar/psycho William Cooper, who cited a supposed MJ-12 "source" for the information about the meeting.

This is only one example of fact being interwoven with MJ-12-related crap. That's why the MJ-12 hoax/disinformation op has to be strangled, once and for all, and the only ones who can kill it are the players who were involved in it. Of course, they will have to be forced into their confessions, under oath, since they won't volunteer for the disclosure mission any other way.

Robert

Best,

Greg

 

[David Biedny]

Based on my own interactions with Doty and Collins, I find neither of them to be credible, honest or ever in possession of useful info, so if Moore is cut from the same cloth, seems to me like Robert is onto the actual objective facts of the matter of MJ-12, and the veracity of the above-mentioned persons. Mr. Hastings, you never cease to impress me, sir.

dB

 

[spacebrother]

Robert,

Once again, I am not in position (or sufficiently connected to the people involved) to argue with you about this ad infinitum. I forwarded the link to this forum to Moore. That is all I will do.

In fact, in his Las Vegas speech, he mentions that he came there to "kick butt" but thought better of it. Bluff of course, since he knew I had been on-target in my published commentary. In fact, he admitted to much of what I wrote, and Collins has more recently confirmed a good part of the rest of it.

You appear to trust Collins only when he agrees with your opinions.

Given that the FBI has already determined that some of the MJ-12 documents are forgeries, and decided years ago that no leak of legitimate classified information occurred with the circulation of said "documents", the "national security" argument would fall flat.

But the creation of them and the purpose for which they were used may be considered as such.

You state in your "MJ-12 AFFAIR: Facts, Questions, Comments" that Moore admitted to "Hall" (Richard Hall?) that he had retyped or "cut and paste"d the Aquarius Document. As I stated in Project Beta, I was told that the original teletype was redone by someone else before being given to Moore, and he knew that it was edited.

Told by whom? Moore? If so, that's hardly reliable information.

How is your source any more reliable as it came from the same person?

Moore confirmed that he was aware that the hoaxed Craig Weitzel letter, sent by Doty to the Lorenzens as "bait", was disinformation. Yet he said nothing to them. That's self-confessed conspiracy, in the legal sense, in Doty's disinformation operation.

How did you find out that he said nothing about the letter? He told them that it was unproven, and therefore a non-issue as far as UFO research was concerned. He found out that it was "official" disinfo months or years later. He didn't even know about Doty, or the AFOSI when the letter was received. The Lorenzens passed it on to him to check out. Read Project Beta if you haven't yet.

Perhaps it's been awhile since you read my paper. Doty's worthless word has nothing to do with it. The information came directly from Michael Seligman, the producer of the TV program, who filmed Doty in the guise of "Falcon." Moore initially denied my identification of Doty, saying that Seligman had been sworn to secrecy. Oh well, regardless, Todd Zechel had Seligman on tape, admitting that Doty was the person Seligman presented as "Falcon" in the program and, furthermore, Bob Collins was the person presented as "Condor." In fact, Collins has finally admitted that all of this was true. Haven't you read his and Doty's book? You seem to be out of touch with some of the more recent developments, Greg.

You still don't answer the main question of where Seligman got this information. How do you know that Collins had the real story (ignoring for a moment the fact that you doubt Collins' word on other issues.) He sent me a copy of his book when it was released, which I read.

Do you know how compartmentalization of information works? He and Moore could have told Collins anything. The whole Coverup program was just an excuse to disseminate more disinfo. Doty "played" Falcon because it was convenient at the time for him to do so. Why should anyone in a position to know have told the producer anything close to the truth?

Also, you didn't react to my question about Doty's reliability in regards to telling Linda Howe that he was "Falcon," which was the other leg of your case.

I am trying to determine who else knew the real "Falcon," but as it involves questioning former intelligence personnel, I doubt whether anyone will believe it when I do. It's sort of the reverse of your contention that he was Doty, with no real evidence besides that from Howe and Seligman, neither who were in positions to know for sure. Sometimes I ask myself why I even bother with it.

Who was your source for the information about the intelligence operation? Was it anyone who has not been proven to be a liar? That leaves out Moore, Doty, and Collins.

There were at least two others besides Doty and Moore (I did not talk to Collins.) Moore and Doty separately recalled small details about Falcon (how he was dressed, his mannerisms, specific quotes) and independently brought up events and issues that had occurred over two decades ago, over the course of months of interviews. That's a lot of material to agree to lie about beforehand. As I recall, there was no inconsistency. Some of the events were confirmed by others outside the scenario, such as Gabe Valdez, who talked to Bennewitz often, and Gary Massey, who talked to Linda Howe the day after her meeting with Doty, and a former NSA agent who knew some of the players as well, as well as a former Air Force Weapons Lab physicist. I also had the help of an AFOSI agent who was in after Doty, assigned to Wright-Pat and other stations, who coached me about his OSI SOPs, some directly associated with monitoring UFO researchers and conferences, etc.

Look here: For what reason would someone in the government want to go to all the trouble of disinforming Paul Bennewitz, cooking up phony UFO documents, and spreading lies amongst UFO researchers? Just to mess with them? To keep them from the "truth?" It's far more likely that the events are closer to the scenario I presented than some scheme to make money or defame the entire UFO community, which they seemed to be able to do on their own. The military is concerned with its projects and protecting them from foreign agents. ALL of the issues I bought up in my book would point in that direction.

The problem, Greg, is that legitimate data is being polluted by boolsheet. For example, as I mentioned in a post on another Paracast Forum thread, Exopolitics guru Michael Salla recently wrote an article in which he cited my well-documented work on the UFO-Nukes Connection and, one paragraph later, mentioned the totally bogus story of Eisenhower meeting face-to-face with aliens at Edwards AFB, at which time the aliens were supposedly attempting to get Ike to cancel the upcoming Bravo H-bomb test.

I don't think that anyone really cares about the MJ-12 debacle any more. It's been thrown into question so severely that just about anyone interested in UFOs disregards the whole scenario. If you prove this definitively, the difference this will make in the world outside UFO research will be almost nil. Those who believe in junk will continue to be interested in it. You plug one leak and two others will appear in its place. The real issue is proving to the society at large that there is another intelligence that interacts with us from time to time. THAT is the hurdle that UFO researchers face.


Re: Project Beta review

That was not me. It was Robert J. Durant, whose excellent commentary nicely summarized how you and Nick Redfern have been expertly misled by your "sources."

...using opinion and appeals to emotion that did not address the issues in the book, and arguing that I didn't discuss important points which were in fact dealt with in multiple places in the text, indicating that he hadn't actually read the book, or at least read it with any attention. That is hardly "excellent commentary." Thanks for reminding me who wrote that review. It was in the International UFO Reporter of October 2005, but I can't seem to find it online.

Durant is also apparently a hardcore ETH and Roswell believer, which makes me doubt his abilities to suspend judgement until all the facts are in.

P.S. To the other members of the forum: I hope my back-and-forth with Robert answers the questions you asked in your responses.

 

[Stillborn]

Surprised Don Ecker hasn't chimed in on this thread yet. Figure he has a lot to say about Moore.

 

[Decker]

I saw this thread and read thru it but did not have any new insight into the discussion. However since my name was mentioned in passing I have the following to say.

Back in the early 90's Bill Moore and I (for a time) met for breakfast or lunch roughly every 6 or 7 weeks and would chat. I don't recall now how many times it was but we did have a line of communication.

We discussed many different topics to and include, but not limited to ... Bill Cooper, Stan Friedman, Paul Bennewitz, Moore's intelligence connections, what he (according to Moore) did and didn't do and his contribution to UFO research. At one point I asked him (Bill Moore) if he was still connected to his intelligence links and after a moment he said he was. I was doing an update in UFO Magazine and reported in a story that he was still (if I recall ... its been awhile) an asset. He called me up after the story ran and was upset that I had reported that.

The very last time I had any contact with Bill Moore was (if I recall ...) sometime in 1996. I had him on my radio show UFOs Tonite! and was interviewing him about his time in research. Why this sticks in my mind is because during the course of that show he claimed that J. A. Hynek and Jacques Vallee were government assets. (Much like he said he was.) When I challenged Moore on that he stated on the record that he could bring me proof to another show and I could verify it on the air. At that time of course Hynek was already dead and Vallee had pulled back from a lot of active research and lowered his profile. I agreed and invited him back as soon as was possible. (Remember now, he told a national audience that both Vallee and Hynek were Govt. assets working for The Man.) I never had another contact again with Moore. Not in person, not on the phone, not even in snail mail. The End.

Were Hynek and Vallee insiders working for the Man? Did they report back to The G on the UFO field, people, cases, etc. ??? I don't know. Recall now, that on my program I broke the story on UFOs Tonite! about Bruce Maccabee "briefing" the CIA on the field, cases, people, etc. and Maccabee was removed as Chairman of FUFOR. Was there a reason to cast doubt on Vallee? Did Moore really have proof that Vallee and Hynek were spooks? Hell, who knows and my attidude now is Who Cares? For whatever reason, back in July of 1989, Bill Moore committed professional suicide in front of a huge audience at MUFON in Las Vegas during the national conference. He left the field in turmoil and the bullshit still resonates. Hell, here we are 20 years later and we are still talking about it.

Decker

 

[Robert Hastings]

Thanks to Don Ecker (Decker) for his input. I have no idea whether or not Hynek and Vallee were assets. I only note that Moore also told one of my Sandia Labs sources that I was a CIA operative, which is ridiculous. As noted earlier, that ploy may have been designed to freeze my relationship with my source(s) at the labs. I only wonder who ordered Moore to say that about me.

So, anyway, one might reasonably take similar claims by Moore about other researchers with a grain of salt. Moreover, assets are rarely known to one another, for security reasons, and even if Moore was/is working for some agency, it's unlikely that his handlers would have divulged the identities of other "asset-type" operatives to him. That certainly ain't SOP.

BTW, y'all, my own father was OSI from 1957-60, but in a support role, not as an agent. But that fact opened certain doors to me during my investigation of Doty's OSI activities at Kirtland. The "old boys network" and the assistance of a longtime friend, who is a retired OSI agent, allowed me to learn certain things about the situation at the time, some of which I have yet to publish.

--Robert

 

[Paul Kimball]

I don't think that anyone really cares about the MJ-12 debacle any more. It's been thrown into question so severely that just about anyone interested in UFOs disregards the whole scenario. If you prove this definitively, the difference this will make in the world outside UFO research will be almost nil. Those who believe in junk will continue to be interested in it. You plug one leak and two others will appear in its place.

If MJ-12 was created for disinformation purposes (a big IF in my book - just as likely a scam for profit imo), then whoever did it must be laughing their heads off / enjoying their "job well done" commendation, because UFO researchers are still wasting their time talking about it, and all of the other distractions, and not enough time actually looking into the UFO mystery itself. No wonder science in general has long ago washed its hands of the subject.

The real issue is proving to the society at large that there is another intelligence that interacts with us from time to time. THAT is the hurdle that UFO researchers face.

Bingo!

 

[Kevin Daly]

An evil little voice inside me keeps wishing the title of this thread had a sub-heading: "- Or Was It Just To Pick Up Chicks?"

 

[Gareth]

Bingo!

I also agree with what you quoted of Gregs post. I think thats the reason MJ12 has stuck around for so long... prove MJ12 genuine and you convince the public.

Its also the closest thing to a holy grail the UFO field has. Take SOM1 01 for instance... if that thing is a genuine document reflecting a program within intelligence then that is the most important document in the history of humanity IMO.

The lack of any other significant physical evidence, or even a 100% convincing photograph, is IMO the reason MJ12 and the docs have hung around so long.

Its like finding a diamond mine full of what looks like magnificent shiny diamonds, and taking 60yrs to determine the authenticity of the diamonds found in the mine. In that 60 period evidence has surfaced that its just an elaborate prop for a movie, but people just cant let go of those magnificent sparkly diamonds.

 

[David Biedny]

The lack of any other significant physical evidence, or even a 100% convincing photograph, is IMO the reason MJ12 and the docs have hung around so long.

There are more than a few pictures that fit the description, so WTF?

dB

 

[Trajanus]

The lack of any other significant physical evidence, or even a 100% convincing photograph, is IMO the reason MJ12 and the docs have hung around so long.

They've persisted because they still have advocates like Friedman. At least he favors the "briefing document."

 

[Kevin Daly]

I think the reason MJ-12 found such fertile ground is that the field was primed by years of frustration: think of all the time and effort that had been put into the problem, and we still knew nothing of any substance whatsoever (just as we now...know nothing of any substance whatsoever). The idea of some secret documents somewhere that say "Yes, it's real" and "Yes, there are aliens, and what's more..." is very seductive. Like a lot of the themes that came into prominence in the UFO field in the 80s and 90s it seems like a case of something being called into existence by the strength of the desire to see such a thing exist. The people who produced the documents had no trouble working out which buttons to push.

 

[Gareth]

There are more than a few pictures that fit the description, so WTF?

dB

Yeah sorry, I thought about qualifying that but figured you might know what I meant.

I was referring to the general public. Joe Nobody who doesnt really care about taking the time to look into this. Sure, the Trent photos are nice and clear and pass analysis by experts. Same with a few others. But Joe Nobody isnt going to see those 2 Trent photos and be convinced.

He needs a shiny full colour day time metallic craft photo. And SOM101 and the other docs have the potential to be that for many people. If only they can proved as genuine (in the minds of MJ12 advocates anyway).

Thats the way the situation appears to me.

 

[spacebrother]

MJ-12 will almost certainly never be proven to be true, which is why it deserves to die a peaceful death. Other documents, like the SOM 101 are even more problematic, since they have even less historical references contained within them. The trick is to uncover supporting documents whose authenticity is beyond question, and have a traceable provenance. I'm afraid that's nearly impossible with the documents on hand, but shows that the hoaxers knew what they were doing. The documents they produced either have no clues to check for contemporary antecedents, or if they do, lead to dead ends.

I believe that there was a group in the US Government that went by the MJ-12 designator, but it was very compartmentalized and probably minor and short-lived, but most likely concerned with foreign technology and/or aerospace development. The original hoaxers knew this, and knew it would be very difficult if not impossible to trace any of its history. The Cutler-Twining memo is a good example. It is the only document that refers to an MJ-12 group that doesn't wither under forensic (and some historical) scrutiny i.e. it appears to be printed on paper from the 1950s, on a typewiter that was used at the time, and matches up with the documented movements of Gen. Nathan Twining during the period. In light of this, the fact that Moore and Shandera were led to its location is irrelevant. It is probably a real document describing real events, used to shore up all the other B.S. associated with MJ-12. It does not mention UFOs or anything associated with them at all. It is simply a request for a meeting rescheduling.

One strange item that still bothers me concerns one of the Tim Cooper documents now in the possession of Robert and Ryan Wood. At the 2001 Society for Scientific Exploration conference, Bob Wood showed (and let me handle) an original government document with text discussing UFOs as a real concern. There were small holes along its edge, which Wood said were places where the paper and ink was removed for forensic analysis. In his lecture, Wood said that the findings were that the paper and ink were contemporary to the time of the document and the fading of the ink, yellowing of the paper, etc. checked out. What does this suggest? That there was a disinfo campaign with regard to UFOs in the 1950s? Was someone trying to fool people in the Government about the subject? Was the document intended to be leaked to some foreign power? Is it a real document describing real issues at the time? Who knows?

Details like this are lost on the non-UFO crowd, and are so few and far between that the crusade seems quixotic. The answer to the UFO enigma will probably come when the phenomenon wants it to, or some new paradigm allows us to look at the problem from an as-yet unknown viewpoint, philosophy, and scientific discipline. Perhaps the supposed intelligence behind it may change at that point to stay just out of our comprehension. Perhaps it is egging us on, or we are doing it in a form that appears external to us. Who knows?

 

[Gareth]

Details like this are lost on the non-UFO crowd, and are so few and far between that the crusade seems quixotic.

Now theres a word you dont hear every day. I can honestly say that I have never in my life seen or heard the word "quixotic". So Greg, thank you.

________________________________
quix·ot·ic <script>play_w2("Q0040100")</script><object style="margin: 1px;" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,0,0" width="13" height="21">
</object>(kw

k-s

t

k) also quix·ot·i·cal adj.

1. Caught up in the romance of noble deeds and the pursuit of unreachable goals; idealistic without regard to practicality.
2. Capricious; impulsive: "At worst his scruples must have been quixotic, not malicious" Louis Auchincloss.

________________________________


Being serious though, a question for Robert/Greg/Don or whoever... The work of Bob and Ryan Wood - would you guys recommend staying away of checking their stuff out.

Specifically Ryan Woods book on MJ12. Is that even worth adding to ones library or is it Majestic cool aid?

 

[spacebrother]

Gareth,

Sorry about the delay in reply.

I know and like Ryan and Bob Wood. I don't agree with them 100%, but they have tried to present a credible platform for their beliefs. The only way to make your own judgment is to read Ryan's book or look at their website. If you are interested in the documents, there is plenty there to allow you to make up your own mind--agree, disagree, or remain agnostic.

In the UFO field, judgment reserved is a fine state in which to remain.

 

[Gareth]

Thanks Greg. BTW how goes the podcast situation with your show? Any chance of posting the archives or is going to remain a broadcast type thing?

 

[spacebrother]

The podcasts are on hold until I find a more reliable server.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The podcasts are on hold until I find a more reliable server.

Greg, as I told you privately, contact me if you need my assistance on this, OK?