Werner Boch

[King Cheetah]

Onca again I must congratulate Gene & Chris for their patience and professionalism while dealing with this guy; he WAS a hundful! Great job guys

 

[nameless]

Just listened to the show.......

Say what now??

He didnt do himself any favours and a farmer that doesnt have a car or a gun is a bit abnormal but I cant see people or this dude lying about a lot of cattle being mutilated.

I feel if there is any conspiracy to this Werner may be too bennewitzed to be of use. its a shame cos there is a mystery to this but its now caked in conspironetworldorderjizz.

 

[Konrad Hartmann]

I think one thing that should be established with Bock is the vaccination record of his cattle. I say this because there exist a number of similarities between what I see online about the disease called blackleg, and the symptoms reported by Bock.

Hemorrhage from capillary damage produces the black color that gives this disease its name: extravasated blood rapidly darkens.

Untitled Document

Blackleg is a gangrenous myositis caused by the bacterium Clostridium chauvoei, which is commonly found in the soil and in the gut contents of normal cattle. It has a spore phase which is highly resistant to environmental conditions in soil and is known to persist for many years.

While aspects of blackleg in cattle remain a mystery, the above cases illustrate that there is at least some consistency to the mystery of a disease that can appear and then disappear like a thief in the night.

reader

Bock has been dealing with this problem for decades.

Blackleg is produced by spore-forming bacteria. The organisms most commonly responsible are Clostridium chauvoei and, less frequently, C. septicum. Spores produced by the clostridia can lie dormant in the soil for years without losing their potency.

Bock described an animal that refused food, became weak, and fell down.

Blackleg should be suspected if an animal aged between 6 months and 2 years:

• becomes lame with swelling of a muscle;
• stops grazing;
• appears sick and quickly goes down.

Bock described an abnormally fast progression of decomposition.

Because the disease is accompanied by rapid decomposition, the post-mortem changes may be masked by gas formation, especially if examination of the carcass is delayed for more than a few hours.

Blackleg in cattle

Here are blackleg symptoms for sheep (sheep and cattle are both susceptible). Do any of them sound like what Bock described?

Antemortem findings :

1. Fever
2. Loss of appetite
3. Depression
4. Stiff gait and reluctance to move due to lameness
5. Subcutaneous edema is not common.
6. Gaseous crepitation occurs before death.
7. Head lesions associated with edema and nose bleeding

Postmortem findings :

1. Subcutaneous edema particularly noted around head.
2. Affected muscle is dark brown, dry and sponge like or moist. A pungent odour is noted. Less gas is formed than in cattle.
3. Tongue, heart muscle and/or diaphragm may be blackish red. Marked abdominal extension if fetus is infected.
4. Genital tract lesions in the walls of the vagina and occasionally uterus
5. Serosanguineous and haemorrhagic fluid in body cavities and pericardial sac
6. Edema of lungs

Manual on meat inspection for developing countries

Lesions develop without any history of wounds, although bruising or excessive exercise may precipitate some cases. Commonly, the animals that contract blackleg are of the beef breeds, in excellent health, gaining weight, and usually the best animals of their group. Outbreaks occur in which a few new cases are found each day for several days.

Merck Veterinary Manual

Bock mentioned his problem as mainly occurring in spring time, after the snow has melted. If it is a soil-borne contaminant, would this not make sense?

Spring and the fall are the seasons most favorable for the development of blackleg, but outbreaks may occur at any time of the year.

Blackleg from Animal Diseases

These are just a few links on the topic. I saw one picture of infected sheep, but I cannot find it, which is unfortunate since the black spots on their noses looked just like the "death ray" wounds on the noses of Bock's cattle. Judge for yourself. I'm no livestock expert, but I think the first step in this case would be to rule out possible, known diseases. Maybe another disease is more applicable, but this one intrigued me since it can live in soil for many years, and sounds a lot like what Bock described. It is also easily preventable with vaccine. I would just like to know the vaccination record.

 

[Mastastic]

Bock came across as a very sad and lonely individual on the show. If only more people could have reached out to him in the earlier days of these events, there might have been something more substantial to gnaw upon than the fanaticism Bock demonstrated on the podcast. Being as socially isolated as he portrays himself to be can do terrible things to the conscious (and unconscious) mind.

 

[JoeDas]

I think there are many good points to discredit Mr. Bachs claims. As always if there's no reliable evidence.
In the whole filed of the paranormal I feel, one has to always read between the lines!
I am of german descent myself and I know a german guy (also in his best years) wo lives in Canada and who isn't that fond of his chosen counrty of residence anymore.
Personally I love Canada, but that just on the side.
I think what these individuals have in common beside their origin is loneliness. Being alone and confronted with problems shrinkens the minds ability to figure out what can be possible and not, what is right and what is probably wrong.
Maybe he's a fraud, I don't know. But I wouldn't cross out that he's confronted with something he clearely can't solve alone.
He seems too stubborn to let anyone near him to help. And I'd say, if his claims are a true phenomena, he has given up on himself now. Otherwise he would have accepted Chris generous offer.

Interesting show! If the whole story was made up, it at least teaches us about reality! -Reality is depending on how the individual sees it. And Mr. Bach clearly believes in what he's saying.

 

[Secretbanana]

Many of the posters regard Mr. Bock as delusional. But something has been happening to his herd. Maybe his conspiracy theories are overblown, but someone seems to be acting against him. Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

How do the doubters deal with the basic facts?

Did you read up on the case? The reason he was in court in the first place, was because local authorities and the RSPCA (Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals... Probably who Werner was referring to, when he talked about a 'local grassroots mafia') are accusing him of malnourishment and not giving the cows sufficient medical attention.

So what is more likely in your opinion? The first scenario that Mr. Bock suggests but doesnt have any proof of: That envious neighbors and local authorities have been using death rays on his cows for thirty years, instead of outright killing him if he was such a pain for them, and he is the only one this has been happening to.

Or the second scenario, which I consider far more likely: An older man, who doesn't have anybody to help him with his animals, have been overwhelmed with the amount of work over the years, and because of that and not through carelessness or Ill will, has been neglecting his animals, resulting in malnourished cows and occasionally a dead animal.

He probably had a paranoid streak to his personality already, and living by yourself for many years isn't exactly good for your mental health. That, combined with the fact that he is a proud individual who doesn't want to face the fact that the dead cows are his own fault, have resulted in a full blown case of Paranoid Personality Disorder, and the ridiculous story about death rays, local mafia and grassroots conspiring against him, etc. etc.

 

[Secretbanana]

Why pooh-pooh talk of Agenda 21?

Because bitter experience have taught me, that nine times out of ten, mentioning "Agenda21" is the opening salvo for a long and ridiculous rant about "them joos' an' them' UN com in' and' grabbin' our guns!"
Usually that is followed by the ranters own favorite mix of conspiracy theories (most of which are straight from the Alex Jones show and carry very little credibility) which may include different level of stupid, and usually consists of at least two of they following: water fluoridation, bankers, chemtrails, vaccinations, socialized medicine, devil worship, Sandy Hook/Columbine/9/11 was an inside job...

It's not a fake or imaginary thing. Look into things like Ickly (ICLEI) and see it is indeed being implemented. Skeptics who seem to have a hard on for dismissing everything and calling others crazy look like smug and arrogant pricks.

I know it's not fake or imaginary. I used to live in a town that had a local Agenda21 office. They usually sat and plotted nefarious schemes like replacing the city's fluorescent bulbs with energy saving bulbs and installing water saving shower heads. (OHNOES! I just remembered! I got a free lightbulb from them one time! You think they might have put microphones in it?!?)

Agenda21 is a real organization all right, but unless you consider recycling and "sustainability" nefarious, they're pretty harmless. Contrary to what you might think, they're not plotting to take your guns, vaccinate your kids or fluoridate your water.

Just because you heard it on the Alex Jones show, doesn't make it so. You know that, right? The guy is full of crap most of the time.

 

[mike]

I have no problem with agenda 21

Agenda 21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A holistic managment plan that takes into consideration the entire biosphere, not just a single species (us)

Bring it on.

I dont know about Werner, regardless of the root cause of his situation i feel sorry for him.

He does come across as a nut, but that could be because hes a nut, or hes had enough bad stuff happen to him to push him over the edge.

I dont know, i hope he can find some peace, lifes too short

 

[dyingsun]

Will the Randy Forum 'guests' please consider not defecating on anything ? I'll shovel it back if you want it.

 

[dyingsun]

So, from the name I judge him to be another insane german. Ah well, can't all be like Polterwurst, Schultz and me.

 

[pixelsmith]

Why pooh-pooh talk of Agenda 21? It's not a fake or imaginary thing. Look into things like Ickly (ICLEI) and see it is indeed being implemented. Skeptics who seem to have a hard on for dismissing everything and calling others crazy look like smug and arrogant pricks.

I could only listen to an hour of Mr. Bock, not because he mentioned Agenda 21 but because he was another guest who did nothing but ramble and ramble plus make little sense. Not to mention it was starting to sound less paranormal and more like a group of vandals. It could have been due to his heavy accent but I just could not listen to his voice any longer.

I just succeeded in getting ICLEI removed from our city. It took over a year of going to Energy Commission meetings and enlightening them to what they were involved with. Agenda 21 is being implemented via ICLEI and other "sustainable" groups throughout the USA.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Chris, how can you defend this guy? Wow.

 

[Secretbanana]

I just succeeded in getting ICLEI removed from our city. It took over a year of going to Energy Commission meetings and enlightening them to what they were involved with. Agenda 21 is being implemented via ICLEI and other "sustainable" groups throughout the USA.

Well congratulations, on without a doubt having been recognized as the local kook, through your hard work!

I'm sure the Energy Commission thought it was a small price to pay, to give up their membership in what is essentially a powerless feel good-club, so they wouldn't have you showing up at every meeting, and listening to your rants about "the bankers" selling us out to the UN, etc. etc.

 

[pixelsmith]

Actually a couple of people on the commission thanked me for pointing out how evil Agenda 21/ICLEI are for the USA and our rural community. ICLEI is hardly a "powerless feel good club". Your complete ignorance on the subject is obvious.

 

[Burnt State]

From what I've read about Agenda 21 Europe and Africa are for it, while the Tea Party is railing against it. They also stated that public healthcare would include nazi death doctors who woud determine who will live or die. Consequently, most of what falls out of their mouth I label as conspiratorial at best.

So what is there to be infomed about regarding sustainable development? Please fill me in.

 

[boomerang]

One reason I have not listened to this particular episode is that I recall having viewed video documentaries on Mr. Bock The paranoid nature of his affect is hard to separate out from his argument. I don't know if extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But claims put forth by unfortunate individuals who come across as un-plugged from reality demand extra scrutiny.
But what the heck. I will download and listen to some of this while trying to keep an open mind.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

The Werner Bach episode was the first topic of discussion in the 'Listener's Roundtable' and I think 3 or 4 of us had to admit that we didn't even listen to it all - for similar reasons!

Most of what I've read here also confirms it wasn't easy listening because of how Mr Bach came across. That is in no way me attacking his character or honesty etc. For me it was just hard to follow his reasoning etc and I found it frustrating. Having said that, I will persevere and finish the episode, cos if it's true, it is an extreme case.

 

[Ezechiel]

GASP !!! Exhausting show !!!

Best words that describe this show ? 'Brick Waaahll'

Best picture describing this guest ? extremely poor and lonely attention hungry Canadian farmer in a log cabin serving as a makeshift farm house.
Mode of transport ? Rusty bicycle stuck in a snow bank.
Internet access ? Free internet using 56k modem connected to a computer using windows 95 (donated).
Computer content ? 35 years of intense conspiracy research... that could have been avoided by a bit of antipsychotic medication.

The guy obviously has cabin fever.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

In short -- you can't handle the truth!

 

[Ezechiel]

In short -- you can't handle the truth!

LOL

I have a few German friends... their persistence is legendary. But this time it broke the farm.

In this specific case the forces working against him were phenomenal and I don't get the sense he tried to integrate into his relatively remote community which is essential if you're there for a long run. A lone German immigrant (that refused Canadian citizenship in the 70's) setting up a farm (20 years after WWII) in an eastern province must have been perceived as suspicious by local residents. The tale of the woman claiming that his land didnt really belong to him must have knocked him off his socks and could easily have been the cause of his paranoia.

This story is not about cattle mutilation, its about the mutilation of an isolated mind falling in a pit of paranoid soup. It would definitely make a great book... lol I'd call it 'The Shining II' the winter that lasted 35 years.