What is a Corporate, Fascistocracy?

[Randall]

This documentary sums up the agenda and influence of the American fascist corporatocracy (or, if you prefer, plutocracy) extremely well...

That was excellent ( though Ayn Rand might have thought otherwise ).

 

[stonehart]

Yeah it is long but it is worth listening to from a Geo Politics point of view.

For good or ill there is a shit storm of epic proportions brewing.

 

[Jimi H.]

A democracy is a system where the majority rules and can impose their will over a minority of citizens. A republic has a constitution or bill of rights where a government cannot revoke certain inalienable rights. It remains to be seen what sort of system the citizens of the US live in these days.

Constitutions are not unique to republics though. E.g. Denmark has a constitution and it is a democracy. But it is not a republic, in technical terms it's a constitutional monarchy.

 

[Solarion]

This documentary sums up the agenda and influence of the American fascist corporatocracy (or, if you prefer, plutocracy) extremely well...

Thank you for the documentary Christopher.

 

[flipper]

Occasionally on the Paracast. I hear Chris O Brian warn us that the United States is a
corporate, fascistocracy. I don't know how to type Corporate fascistocracy to be a read able statement. But over the last 36 years I developed a belief that one way to have a less violent but corrupt government. Is to misteach your children about the basics of how your society really works. For example I learned in High school that the United States is a democracy, but my local Rush Limbaugh clone says we are really a Constitutional Republic. Thanks for reading my rant.
Solarion

Here are the members of the Transnational Capitalist Class:
n this study, we decided to identify in detail the people on the boards of directors of the top ten asset management firms and the top ten most centralized corporations in the world. Because of overlaps, there is a total of thirteen firms, which collectively have 161 directors on their boards. We think that this group of 161 individuals represents the financial core of the world’s transnational capitalist class. They collectively manage $23.91 trillion in funds and operate in nearly every country in the world. They are the center of the financial capital that powers the global economic system. Western governments and international policy bodies work in the interests of this financial core to protect the free flow of capital investment anywhere in the world.
Exposing the Financial Core of the Transnational Capitalist Class | Global Research

 

[stonehart]

Constitutions are not unique to republics though. E.g. Denmark has a constitution and it is a democracy. But it is not a republic, in technical terms it's a constitutional monarchy.

Much like New Zealand.. however we only have a bill of rights and no constitution as yet.. I really do wish the people of this little nation would wake the F**k up and demand one.
In the news today the current government having been confronted with a petition that exceeds by many thousands the number required to call a referendum on the sale of public assets has moved the sale date forward to avoid the people of this nation actually having a say on what happens to the public assets they own.
This is when you know the government is not working for you but for big business interests.

 

[Jimi H.]

Speaking about Denmark again, recent revelations have shown that politicians are liable to forget about the constitution in matters of e.g. privacy. The Danish Prime Minister had the gall to say, a couple of days ago, that NSA spying on Danish citizens isn't a problem, that we should only be happy about the 'help' !? In fact, some commentators are wondering if she is commiting an act of treason by apparently allowing foreign governments to spy on Danish citizens.
Others point to a clause, that in times of war and other exceptional circumstances privacy can be overlooked. A newspaper tried to find out if this was the case now, if that clause was in effect now, in relation to the war in Afghanistan. No answer was given.

I'm very sad to say that the fears that many Americans citizens have about their government is rapidly spreading to other nations that used to have great amounts of trust wrt their own democratic institutions. I have never seen Danish intellectuals verbalize classic 'paranoia' like they are now. Intellectuals are openly discussing how to 'mobilize' the citizens, it's getting pretty heavy now. It is a significant and highly problematic situation, democracy is really under pressure, - it seems that politicians are either unwilling, or too scared, to stand up for true democracy and transparancy.

The current government is social democratic, but seemingly only in name. They are selling off government interests in the name of 'growth' and 'competition', and are cutting welfare because they 'have to' because of EU regulations. The EU-card is a perfect cop-out for politicians.
Away goes local democracy, replaced by big business and undemocratic European institutions. There is a widefelt depression and anxiety among intellectuals and classic social democrats, at this point. It's a very, very sad situation at the moment.

 

[Charlie Prime]

The current government is social democratic, but seemingly only in name.

Socialism was designed by elites, for elites, to better manage and harvest their human resources.

More socialism equals more management and harvesting.

Less socialism equals less management and less harvesting.

 

[Jimi H.]

When workers united to fight for decent living conditions, and decent wages, and manageable working hours, and won it after years of hard struggle, that was all for 'the elite'? You seem to have some things upside down. It seems you and other capitalistic dreamers are intent on rewriting history, hoping that people are too uninformed to understand why industrialization spurred revolutionary movements: The injustice was intolerable, and there was no way for the poor to make their own life, they had no land, and no capital. The middle class was miniscule compared to what it is today. It was one of those struggles that made people's lives much easier, eventually.

So, you may blame social democracy for creating a huge complacent middle class, but don't rewrite history. Progressive movements around the world pulled millions out of poverty. Maybe you should read up on workers history, and pay special attention to living standards following stronger unions and state control in democratic states (not communist or fascist states) .

Why is your avatar Stalin? Is it some ironic statement, or some misguided idolatry?

 

[Charlie Prime]

Why is your avatar Stalin?

It is to remind people of the 20 million human beings he murdered.

That was a good summary of the fake historical narrative programmed into you via 12,000 hours of formal, institutionalized brain washing and countless more of popular media.

I understand and empathize with your situation. It's so tragic it breaks my heart. We are working to free you guys from Plato's Cave. The 21st century abolition movement is growing. I hope you break out and join someday. We are here for you.

 

[Jimi H.]

Ohh geez, come back when you read some history and stop sounding like a T-shirt, you're embarrassing me.

And maybe when you aquire a little knowledge about history you'll also get a little respect for the people who struggled or even paid with their lives so that you don't have to work 12 hours a day with no minimal wages.

Seriously, get a new avatar.

 

[stonehart]

It is to remind people of the 20 million human beings he murdered.

That was a good summary of the fake historical narrative programmed into you via 12,000 hours of formal, institutionalized brain washing and countless more of popular media.

I understand and empathize with your situation. It's so tragic it breaks my heart. We are working to free you guys from Plato's Cave. The 21st century abolition movement is growing. I hope you break out and join someday. We are here for you.

 

[Charlie Prime]

You can be free.

Tragedy and Hope Communications — T&H: Your Launchpad for Learning

 

[Wade]

The later part of this thread reminds me of my favorite Terry Gilliam movie, Brasil.

 

[Burnt State]

Away goes local democracy, replaced by big business and undemocratic European institutions. There is a widefelt depression and anxiety among intellectuals and classic social democrats, at this point. It's a very, very sad situation at the moment.

Is the general intellectual malaise about the incredible distance now between the worker and the actual owners & definers of both employment mechanisms, and the instruments of human rights? It seems to me the gap between power and the serf is such a chasm currently that the lowly poproletariat doesn't even know who to protest against. For even the occupy movement is just about dancing on the stage of god. Those who are power personifed don't even take time to listen to the cries from the pit. It strikes me that the relationship between ultra wealth and the lower orders is very abstract and harder to rally against. How are the proles to rise up out of such a slumber in the morass?

 

[Randall]

It is to remind people of the 20 million human beings he murdered.

Stalin didn't murder 20 million people. He was however a ruthless leader in a civil war, who after his victory led the USSR to become one of two world superpowers and the first nation into space.

 

[Charlie Prime]

Stalin didn't murder 20 million people.

Estimates range up to 60 million, so 20 million seems a fair estimate to me.

Joseph Stalin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The tens of millions more slaughtered by Mao, German National Socialism, and Pol Pot don't seem to matter to people these days, so what's a few million people here, or few million people there.

 

[Randall]

Estimates range up to 60 million, so 20 million seems fair estimate to me ...

I never said Stalin was an angel. I said he was a ruthless leader in a civil war. I should probably add bank robber and revolutionary to his list of credentials. How many people did he himself kill? Surely a lot less than 20 million. Probably more like a few hundred and those were probably casualties of war. How many others were actually cold blooded murder? I don't know? I haven't seen any estimates. The vast majority were no doubt on orders. If nobody followed his orders or supported him, there would have been no revolution and maybe Germany would have taken over the USSR, and then what? I don't know. But it's not as if Stalin single headedly went out and did all the killing himself.

America also had its civil war in which a lot of people died. So how many people have to die before we can justifiably demonize the commanders? Is two hundred thousand not enough? Once it starts, who knows when and where a war will end? It's all a very nasty business. After it was over, the USSR was united as the largest country in the world, became industrial and military powerhouse, and a technological leader. I'm not using that as a justification for how it all went down by any means, but let's not oversimplify by painting the picture as if Stalin personally murdered 20 million people. He was a cog in a war machine much larger than himself and had he died in the middle of it all, someone else would have stepped right in.

How does this discussion apply to the Corporate Fascistorcracy? I don't think it's the same at all. The plutocracy is more like a bunch of fiefdoms, many in collusion with each other, to control both the government and the people, and the people are too complacent and/or confused to do anything about it.

 

[flipper]

It is to remind people of the 20 million human beings he murdered.

That was a good summary of the fake historical narrative programmed into you via 12,000 hours of formal, institutionalized brain washing and countless more of popular media.

I understand and empathize with your situation. It's so tragic it breaks my heart. We are working to free you guys from Plato's Cave. The 21st century abolition movement is growing. I hope you break out and join someday. We are here for you.

Yes Stalin did terrible acts. They are well known and should not be forgotten, especially by Russians. There is a part of the history of the Soviet Union that should also be mentioned and that is that right from the beginning
Britain and France using the White Russians began attacking the reds. Russia could never focus on its social programs and reforms because it always had to spend money on trying to keep up in the arms race. Oliver Stones' Untold History of the United States talks about this.

https://soundcloud.com/soundcloud.com%2Fflashpoints%2Fflashpoints-10-10-13-edward

What is " The 21st century abolition movement?" What does it want to abolish apart from incorrect thinking and what does it want to replace it with? And what will you do for us when we are out of Plato's cave?

 

[Charlie Prime]

...it's not as if Stalin single headedly went out and did all the killing himself.

Applying this logic, Hitler bares no responsibility for the millions his socialist regime murdered because he personally didn't pull the trigger. I understand your argument.