What is a Corporate, Fascistocracy?

[Charlie Prime]

Russia could never focus on its social programs and reforms because it always had to spend money on trying to keep up in the arms race.

Have you noticed the same thing happened in the west? Trillions of dollars were *not* spent on schools, housing, bridges, and things that benefit people, but were instead extracted from the populace and handed to giant trans-national corporations to waste on the arms race. Who benefited? The international banks who own those corporations.

The last 100 years prove that Socialism is the most brilliant human resource exploitation system ever invented. Successive generations fall for the old carnival grift "Aw shucks kid. It seems you lost. The premise of the game is sound, so let's try it again". This is why financial elites invented it.

 

[Randall]

Applying this logic, Hitler bares no responsibility for the millions his socialist regime murdered because he personally didn't pull the trigger. I understand your argument.

Not exactly. I didn't say anything about responsibility. That's yet another issue. There's responsibility all the way up and down the chain. The ultimate responsibility for killing someone is in the hands of the person with their finger on the trigger. After that it's with the person who signed up to go to war. After that it's with all the supporters and suppliers that feed the war machine. As for Hitler, his biggest role was as a front-man for one of the first parties to use mass-media ( radio and TV ), high power PA systems, and political rock star tactics to spread the party propaganda. Other than that he was a lousy tactician. The engine that put him there had to do more with industry and banking than anything Hitler could have done on his own. These guys are mainly figureheads for something much larger, sinister and complex.

 

[Randall]

Have you noticed the same thing happened in the west? Trillions of dollars were *not* spent on schools, housing, bridges, and things that benefit people, but were instead extracted from the populace and handed to giant trans-national corporations to waste on the arms race. Who benefited? The international banks who own those corporations.

The last 100 years prove that Socialism is the most brilliant human resource exploitation system ever invented. Successive generations fall for the old carnival grift "Aw shucks kid. It seems you lost. The premise of the game is sound, so let's try it again". This is why financial elites invented it.

You seem to have the whole concept backwards. Socialism grew out of the ideas of Karl Marx, who was part of the upper middle class, and Friedrich Engels, who was born into a fairly wealthy family, but was not himself wealthy, and who rejected his heritage, choosing atheism instead and supporting the plight of the poor and exploited, including children. In 1870, Engels moved to London where he and Marx lived until Marx's death in 1883. His London home during this period and until his death was 122 Regent's Park Road, Primrose Hill, NW1. Marx's first London residence was a cramped apartment at 28 Dean Street, Soho. From 1856, he lived at 9 Grafton Terrace, Kentish Town, and then in a tenement at 41 Maitland Park Road from 1875 until his death.

So according to history, socialism was not invented by the "financial elites". In fact, socialism isn't such a bad idea in theory:

"Marxists argue that freeing the individual from the necessity of performing alienating work in order to receive goods would allow people to pursue their own interests and develop their own talents without being coerced into performing labour for others."

"Socialists generally argue that capitalism concentrates power and wealth within a small segment of society that controls the means of production and derives its wealth through economic exploitation. This creates unequal social relations which fail to provide opportunities for every individual to maximise their potential, and does not utilise available technology and resources to their maximum potential in the interests of the public."

"A socialist economic system consists of a system of production and distribution organised to directly satisfy economic demands and human needs, so that goods and services are produced directly for use instead of for private profit driven by the accumulation of capital." ( Wikipedia )

It's how Socialism has been implemented and managed that's been the problem. Of course that's the same with any ideology isn't it? All systems deal with the brokering of power and there's an old saying that nobody can touch power and walk away clean.

 

[Charlie Prime]

So according to history, socialism was not invented by the "financial elites".

Go learn who funded Marx, Engels, and Lenin. Go learn how they were able to float through the fashionable salons of Europe without ever holding a job. Go learn about the Fabians.

In fact, socialism isn't such a bad idea in theory:

This is the brilliance of it. Just like the carnival milk bottle game, it *sounds* easy, simple, and beneficial. Knock down three milk bottles with a baseball, win a big prize. Then theory crashes into reality.

As a young socialist I was so captivated by this promise of noble works I earned graduate credentials so I could do public administration as a career, and spent twenty-five years at it.

But just like the youth plunking down his money at the carnival midway, no matter how many wonderful policies we formulated and implemented to benefit The People, somehow The Predators always wound up winning. That's when I began to study history and discover *why* the results never match up with the theory.

It's not as you are taught "They're just doing it wrong". It's not "Aw shucks, we screwed it up. Let's have another try". No. The idea that collective violence is a good way to solve social problems is itself an irrational premise. An irrationality exploited to great effect by something much larger, sinister and more complex, Human Farming.

 

[Randall]

Go learn who funded Marx, Engels, and Lenin. Go learn how they were able to float through the fashionable salons of Europe without ever holding a job. Go learn about the Fabians.

Hey, it was your claim that it was the financial elite who invented socialism. It wasn't. It was your statement that portrayed individual leaders as being singlehandedly responsible for deaths in wartime. They're not. Now you're painting socialism as "collective violence", when that's not what it's about. Past efforts at making socialism work have clearly been done wrong, but you're claiming that's not the problem. And lastly, you've completely overlooked any of the benefits that came out of socialism e.g. that Russia has remained intact as the largest country in the world, a superpower second only to the USA, and a technological leader for decades. Perhaps a more balanced approach would be more beneficial for you. BTW, none of this means I'm an advocate of socialism or any particular ideology. I'm not; though I'm sure others would probably slap some label or another onto me for one reason or another that suits them.

 

[Jimi H.]

Don't confuse social democratism and communism. If a discussion about modern democratic socialism has to start with Stalin, the discussion is already useless and pointless.

The Social Democratic states have arguable been the most succesful in securing both a relatively free market AND social security.

The Scandinavian countries all belong to the richest nations in the world, and the most well-educated, they did it with social democracy. Nordic model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Sometimes mistaken by Americans as socialist, while simultaneously being criticized by Scandinavians as overly capitalistic, the Nordic model could best be described as a type of middle ground. It is neither fully capitalistic or socialistic, and attempts to merge the most desirable elements of both into a "hybrid" system"

As long as people keep speaking about the extreme options, communism or anarcho-capitalism, we're getting no where.

Charlie, I'm tired of listening to right wing Americans speak about 'socialism' in terms of what they know from their Cold War adversary, or of what they were forcefed by the American Red Scare propaganda-machine. It shows ignorance about the real world outside the U.S., and it's equivalent to saying that we still only have the option to choose between Stalin or freedom when we go to vote, or speak about politics. And that's just plain wrong and uninformed.

Try to avoid jumping from extreme to extreme, when considering political options.

 

[flipper]

Don't confuse social democratism and communism. If a discussion about modern democratic socialism has to start with Stalin, the discussion is already useless and pointless.

The Social Democratic states have arguable been the most succesful in securing both a relatively free market AND social security.

The Scandinavian countries all belong to the richest nations in the world, and the most well-educated, they did it with social democracy. Nordic model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:



As long as people keep speaking about the extreme options, communism or anarcho-capitalism, we're getting no where.

Charlie, I'm tired of listening to right wing Americans speak about 'socialism' in terms of what they know from their Cold War adversary, or of what they were forcefed by the American Red Scare propaganda-machine. It shows ignorance about the real world outside the U.S., and it's equivalent to saying that we still only have the option to choose between Stalin or freedom when we go to vote, or speak about politics. And that's just plain wrong and uninformed.

Try to avoid jumping from extreme to extreme, when considering political options.

Yes communism is not a blob that eats people, it PART of their struggle how to make a better life!

 

[Charlie Prime]

I see. Thank you for letting me know.

 

[flipper]

It is to remind people of the 20 million human beings he murdered.

That was a good summary of the fake historical narrative programmed into you via 12,000 hours of formal, institutionalized brain washing and countless more of popular media.

I understand and empathize with your situation. It's so tragic it breaks my heart. We are working to free you guys from Plato's Cave. The 21st century abolition movement is growing. I hope you break out and join someday. We are here for you.

Plato's cave:

 

[stonehart]

Don't confuse social democratism and communism. If a discussion about modern democratic socialism has to start with Stalin, the discussion is already useless and pointless.

The Social Democratic states have arguable been the most succesful in securing both a relatively free market AND social security.

The Scandinavian countries all belong to the richest nations in the world, and the most well-educated, they did it with social democracy. Nordic model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:



As long as people keep speaking about the extreme options, communism or anarcho-capitalism, we're getting no where.

Charlie, I'm tired of listening to right wing Americans speak about 'socialism' in terms of what they know from their Cold War adversary, or of what they were forcefed by the American Red Scare propaganda-machine. It shows ignorance about the real world outside the U.S., and it's equivalent to saying that we still only have the option to choose between Stalin or freedom when we go to vote, or speak about politics. And that's just plain wrong and uninformed.

Try to avoid jumping from extreme to extreme, when considering political options.

Well said Jim.

 

[stonehart]

Man calls to report a burglary, deputy arrives and shoots his dog in the head

per's Intel 'Gag Order' an Assault on Press Freedoms: Critics

 

[flipper]

 

[flipper]

 

[stonehart]

About the same time you sold your freedom for security.

 

[manxman]

when did this .. become this ?.

thats easy to answer.

the cold war.

the cold war allowed for the erosion of your right's, along with a booming arms industry [including nuclear] as you armed the world against communism, an industry that gorged on keeping your country in constant wars, and constant wars in geo-politically/strategically important areas of the planet.

so rich/powerful have they become, they have merged, become an integral part of your intelligence apparatus the CIA, and ultimately an integral part of how your country is governed, a country that is NOW governed solely by greed and war.

after ignoring Eisenhower's warning about the growing power and influence of the industrial military complex [ Military–industrial complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ] you gradually became ruled by fear.

that fear was assuaged by letting, and encouraging the public own weapons, not just side arms, but military grade assault weapons, and the militarisation of your policing followed step by step, all sold to you by fear.

 

[stonehart]

when did this .. become this ?.

thats easy to answer.

the cold war.

the cold war allowed for the erosion of your right's, along with a booming arms industry [including nuclear] as you armed the world against communism, an industry that gorged on keeping your country in constant wars, and constant wars in geo-politically/strategically important areas of the planet.

so rich/powerful have they become, they have merged, become an integral part of your intelligence apparatus the CIA, and ultimately an integral part of how your country is governed, a country that is NOW governed solely by greed and war.

after ignoring Eisenhower's warning about the growing power and influence of the industrial military complex [ Military–industrial complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ] you gradually became ruled by fear.

that fear was assuaged by letting, and encouraging the public own weapons, not just side arms, but military grade assault weapons, and the militarisation of your policing followed step by step, all sold to you by fear.

Oh you are going to love this...

Read it and yeah comment.

Activist Post: 72 Types Of Americans That Are Considered “Potential Terrorists” In Official Government Documents

 

[stonehart]

Sort of related but worth looking at

47% Of All Jobs Will Be Automated By 2034, And 'No Government Is Prepared' Says Economist

 

[Wade]

I'm guessing that the 53% of the jobs that won't be automated will be made up of ceos' cfos' & other board members and as such, tuition at business schools will rise to $500k/semester to reflect that

 

[Burnt State]

when did this .. become this ?.
all sold to you by fear.

Near as I can tell it's always been this way. Those with power consolidate and use those at the bottom to maintain and create their wealth, while keeping that buffer in the middle inspired by desires for luxury and abstract fear. It's an age old recipe ever since we've gathered together in larger groups. In our early tribal units of 20-30 individuals humans would continue to care and sacrifice for those in their group that struggled through disease or age. But as soon as you get cities going, things like cholera are seen as a welcoming necessity to keep the numbers down. There's a general grimness to this thing called civilization.

 

[Charlie Prime]

Here is a Volkswagen that gets 300 miles per gallon.

Jimstonefreelance.com - The new root of truth.

You cannot purchase this car because automakers have colluded with the Federal Government to ensure regulations are written in such a way that this car cannot comply, thus making this car illegal to sell in the United States.

Collusion of government and corporations is called National Socialism, also known as Fascism.