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your views on creationism please

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Han

Han

piscator ψ
Hello every one I recently watched an interview with "James Watson and Edward O. Wilson"
I was amazed to hear that up to 85% of Americans believe in creationism.
what I am asking is for your views on why this is and is it true(that such a high percentage believe in creationism)?

I live in the U.K and had been told previously that a high proportion of Americans held these views, but I didnt think it was true. I put it down to anti American feeling (alot of people here express these views) for e.g people often joke about the percentage of Americans that have a passport.

Somehow for me it does not add up. America has been responsible for so many scientific breakthroughs and discoveries. if only 15% of the population believe in evolution that must mean that some of the scientists do believe in creationism? I have friends and relatives that are scientists who have worked in America and they have told me that working conditions over there(U.S) are much better i.e better equipment, funding and salarys.

Are the polls wrong?
Could it be because when people are asked the question they give the answer they think they should?
What is the situation in Canada for example? or where ever you live?

As I said before I live in the U.K. I have never met anyone who believes in creationism, which is strange to me because so much of our (british) culture is shared or borrowed from America e.g Films,food and music to list just a few. Why not creationism?
Any and all thoughts are welcome thanks a lot
peace and love han
 
As a Canadian, living in one of the more liberal provinces, I can say that most of the people I meet of my generation are not religious (which is a prerequisite to being a creationist).
From some of the literature and documentaries I have seen in the past few years - the United States is filled with creationists, but I can't be sure since I don't live there. The arguments I hear over teaching creationism (under the guise of Intelligent Design) in class rooms is baffling to me.
It's one thing to believe in the paranormal (UFOs, Ghosts, Psychics, etc) where there's no real proof to refute it, just no scientific proof to fully support claims. It's another thing to support something that has tons of scientific evidence to completely refute it. When someone has to resort to explaining fossils by saying that god put them there to test them, you can rest assured that they have no platform to stand on.
I'll be curious to see if there are any creationists in this forum, and why they believe in it.
 
I moved this thread since it was posted in "The Question Bank" which is for suggested questions to be posed to future guests. It is now in "General Freewheeling Chit-Chat."

Angelo
 
My opinion:

There is no "God." There are no "gods." Therefore creationism cannot be true.

Evolution, though, I think is a mis-nomer. It's more of a natural selection-adaptations for success. The strongest and or most clever pass on their genes-thereby focusing the gene pool in a general direction.

/My opinion
 
"WE could produce remarkable children," a beautiful actress once cooed to the cerebral Irish playwright George Bernard Shaw. "Ah yes," he replied, quick as a flash, "but what if they had my looks and your brains?" :)
 
This is a tough one. It's getting to the point that people are afraid to admit that they don't think it's all a mistake lest they be "smeared" as retarded. There are some "skeptics" on here who I respect because they seem to be able to think outside the jimmy randi box and still maintain their skepticm. (pardon muh spellin) That aside let me say this. When you say "creationism" do you mean the six day talking snake and the rest of the "creation myths?" Because if you do then no I'm not. But, if you mean Rodger Penrose and his "wondering" and "research" about what was "there""here" moments before the big bang and maybe "just maybe" there is intent to life? Then yes, yes I am. I don't belive in U.f.o's as "spacemen" but I've seen U.F.O.'s. Just don't buy the ole nuts and bolts stuff. Yet there are some folks here who will say that "aliens seeded life" and yet say "god/goddess is silly. Now, I don't know for sure an alien species didn't seed life and god may be silly. But, I don't beleive in space aliens and I do believe in a "first cause" or "spirit." I don't deny evolution. I embrace it. But not in the "it's all an accident sense." Life after death? I hope so. I even believe it. But, because of my own journey not because of a holy book or a guru. I'll either know or I won't know in the end. But, anyway, I do enjoy a good debate. I'm not an atheist simply because I don't beleive in oblivion and I don't think it''s all a cosmic mistake. I'm not a religionist because I don't beleive in talking snakes and angry gods. Just my two cents.

Peace. :cool:
 
Han said:
Hello every one I recently watched an interview with "James Watson and Edward O. Wilson"
I was amazed to hear that up to 85% of Americans believe in creationism.
what I am asking is for your views on why this is and is it true(that such a high percentage believe in creationism)?

I live in the U.K and had been told previously that a high proportion of Americans held these views, but I didnt think it was true. I put it down to anti American feeling (alot of people here express these views) for e.g people often joke about the percentage of Americans that have a passport.

Somehow for me it does not add up. America has been responsible for so many scientific breakthroughs and discoveries. if only 15% of the population believe in evolution that must mean that some of the scientists do believe in creationism? I have friends and relatives that are scientists who have worked in America and they have told me that working conditions over there(U.S) are much better i.e better equipment, funding and salarys.

Are the polls wrong?
Could it be because when people are asked the question they give the answer they think they should?
What is the situation in Canada for example? or where ever you live?

As I said before I live in the U.K. I have never met anyone who believes in creationism, which is strange to me because so much of our (british) culture is shared or borrowed from America e.g Films,food and music to list just a few. Why not creationism?
Any and all thoughts are welcome thanks a lot
peace and love han
Click to expand...

Dang, my long post got lost somewhere.

First what is your definition of creationism?? Are we talking 4000 year old Earth, inerrant Bible, evolution is not true, etc?? Or Christians, Buddhists, or what?? Catholics believe in creationism and evolution and so do many others. So when you say only 15% believe in evolution, this is wrong.

I think there may be some kind of intelligent agent that was responsible for the creation of the universe. But I firmly know that evolution is true. So I'm just saying that evolution and the belief in god are not polar opposites. Why is it that people think if you believe in god then you do not believe in the science of evolution??

I guess I'm a bit surprised that you don't know anyone that believes in god. Does that mean that everyone you know is atheist?? That seems to be the opposite side of the same coin. How could a person actually know there is not a god, ... or that there is one?? I think there may be something else that prompted the creation of our universe, but I'm not sure of it, ... I don't know how anyone could be.

There are lots of religious folks here in the US. But they vary in their beliefs with most accepting the many decades of science that supports evolution.
 
When I hear creationist, I think of those people that think the world is less than 10000 years old. I have not met anyone that thinks this way, but I'm in Quebec where most people are Catholic, and I'm Italian which makes most of my family Catholic as well.
Even though most people I know are not religious, that doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe in a god. They just don't really give it much thought. In my case, I used to be like that, in thinking there is a god, and if someone would ask me if i believed in it I would say yes. In the last few years my attitude has changed significantly in in thinking that the chances are higher that there isn't a god.
As humans, there have always been some sort of higher being or beings that we thought that we needed to answer to. What happened to those gods? Eventually the current god will be scoffed, taken over by whatever people will believe in down the line - maybe most people will be Scientology followers.

Even Richard Dawkins says that he leaves room for there to be a god, because as a scientist he can't completely rule it out since there's no proof against it. It's just that there's no proof to support it either, so his position is that he doesn't think there is one.
I guess I think that way too, although I'm pretty okay with religion as long as it doesn't get in the way of reality or in the way of anyone's right to live (like in the case of insane honour killings).
 
Thanks every one for your helpfull responses. Before this thread I new zilch about the subject of creationism. The "Creationism" I was asking about was the one that asserts that Darwin was wrong in other words, that evolution is not a reality or "true" and that "god" created human beings as they are now not more than 10,000 years ago.
I can honestly say that I have never met anyone that believes that.
I do however know people that believe in god and darwinism at the same time, that is to say that they believe "god" started it all off but evolution is a fact of life.

I had little idea that the theory of evolution was up for debate any more, especially since the discovery of DNA.
Now armed with the knowlege I have been given on this forum I realise how broad a term "creationism" is.
Thanks again, the situation now makes alot more sense to me and I realise why I was confused its all in the definition!
 
Angel of Ioren said:
When I hear creationist, I think of those people that think the world is less than 10000 years old. I have not met anyone that thinks this way, but I'm in Quebec where most people are Catholic, and I'm Italian which makes most of my family Catholic as well.
Even though most people I know are not religious, that doesn't necessarily mean they don't believe in a god. They just don't really give it much thought. In my case, I used to be like that, in thinking there is a god, and if someone would ask me if i believed in it I would say yes. In the last few years my attitude has changed significantly in in thinking that the chances are higher that there isn't a god.
As humans, there have always been some sort of higher being or beings that we thought that we needed to answer to. What happened to those gods? Eventually the current god will be scoffed, taken over by whatever people will believe in down the line - maybe most people will be Scientology followers.

Even Richard Dawkins says that he leaves room for there to be a god, because as a scientist he can't completely rule it out since there's no proof against it. It's just that there's no proof to support it either, so his position is that he doesn't think there is one.
I guess I think that way too, although I'm pretty okay with religion as long as it doesn't get in the way of reality or in the way of anyone's right to live (like in the case of insane honour killings).
Click to expand...

Richard Dawkins has a chapter in his The God Delusion titled "Why there almost certainly is no god." Argument called the "ultimate Boeing 747 gambit"....
 
tyder001 said:
When you say "creationism" do you mean the six day talking snake and the rest of the "creation myths?"
Click to expand...
Hahaha! I am so stealing that!

tyder001 said:
Because if you do then no I'm not. But, if you mean Rodger Penrose and his "wondering" and "research" about what was "there""here" moments before the big bang and maybe "just maybe" there is intent to life? Then yes, yes I am.
Click to expand...
This goes with the oft quoted "I'm spiritual but not religious" stuff. I think there is no real evidence that a creator has any lasting interest in our lives. Some people pray to their God for things like "their team to win" or "strength in crisis" or whatever. Then they like to tell you how God answered their prayers. All I can think is why was "God" concentrating helping the Lakers win or providing you with "strength" when he should have been saving the thousands of children being murdered or raped throughout the world. It is my experience in this world that Justice and truth are products of the perceptions of a culture at a given point in time. Thus, I think our "creator/s" just "created" and let us be. We did the rest.

But, we as humans are all wired to want to believe in a deity. I have an intuition that there is more than chance chemistry. I kind of see evolution as the science behind the creation. It makes me respect that creator more than if it was all just spooky magic. If this universe is a construct from the mind of a creator/s then that is some serious brain power at work.

The interesting part is that I think we have essentially tried to recreate him/her/they in the form of human centric religions. Sometimes I think that thought might be amusing to a creator.

Whether it is a coping mechanism for managing the capacity to understand death or a fundamental intuitive truth remains to be seen. Color me agnostic.
 
Lance summed it up pretty succinctly.

lancemoody said:
petarded.png
Click to expand...

WINNER!
 
Interesting reading. Mostly because none of the answers seem to have a grasp of creationism but still have a very biting opinion. Which is usually the case, the harshest opinions come from the least knowledgeable. ;-)

Creationism is flawed in the since that they try too hard to prove the validity of the theory by tearing down evolution instead of standing on their own facts.

Evolution is a tenuous theory, the facts all seem to fall into the basic psychological traps of conformational bias and narrative fallacy. For example when evolutionary scientists decoded Platypus DNA they admitted that "We have no idea how evolution or natural selection could have created the Platypus... but that just shows you how amazing the power of evolution is."

Of course I'm sure most people don't notice the self-validation that goes into that statement. We don't know = Proof of what we believe to be true.

If you apply psychology to the development of evolutionary theory, you very quickly see the patterns that have created a system of belief, not a proven science.

Ok, now I'm going hear all the people start to tear down the little bit of data I just stated... which also falls into the psychological tests that show people attack data they don't agree with.

To me, this is just a proof of what psychology tells us about belief systems. people will defend them beyond facts or reason.

Evolution is not a fact.... defend away. :-)
 
lancemoody said:
Hey, I would love to discuss this with you! Before we get started would you name the evolutionary scientists (who were apparently working outside their field, decoding genes and all!) who uttered the quote you cite above? How many scientists were there? Did they all stand together and state this as a sort of chorus? Or is this quote from a paper in one of the scientific journals you monitor?

Looking forward to a stimulating discussion!

Lance
Click to expand...

Let psychology 101 begin...

Step one attack the data of the person refuting your belief

Proceeding as predicted. :-)

Always fascinating! Cling to your belief system! cling I say!!!
 
lancemoody said:
Without minimal citation, I'm not sure you can really say you presented any data. But maybe you are using a super special kind of cool science that I am too backwards to follow?

Lance
Click to expand...

Step two attack the person...

This helps to block directly defending your belief by creating additional reasons why facts that go against your belief is wrong.

Never objectively look at data! Defend what you already believe!
 
lancemoody said:
Ok I'm done.

I don't want to get banned for saying what needs to be said about posters like this. A total troll.

Lance
Click to expand...

At least I don't have a limited mind that can't accept larger possibilities.

But alas, true believers are always blind to their own faults and bigoted as a protection against accepting new ideas.
 
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