Rosemary Ellen Guiley

[SRL+]

Spielberg's Saucer Secrets | Presidential UFO

That’s a rumor. The fact of the matter is Spielberg will sell anything to the public that will bring in box office revenue. Take for example, “Close Encounters 3 K”. Spielberg knew full well that he was twisting the facts. However, the ET devotees flocked to the theaters in droves. That’s what happens when the entertainment industry takes control, helping to mold an unfounded belief system.

 

[SlightlyAbovePar]

I wonder if these paranormal forum skeptics have a little cyber club that they attend late at night to pump each other up and maybe engage in some kind of weird cyber circle jerk to pictures of ETs and cute little faeries? Naw, that's TOO weird, but I just can't fathom their motivations

Ouch. I'm a skeptic, but I don't attend "cyber circle jerks" getting off to pictures of fairies or ETs. I'm like Fox Moulder; I want to believe. I really, really do. However, I'm not going to depart from reality because someone spins a nice story. I require proof; at least evidence based in reality.

It's a common refrain to smear skeptics as impossibly ridged, short sighted, unimaginative, etc. Mr. Friedman (sp?) uses this tactic regularly. The reality is, what's presented as "proof" often isn't. Generally speaking, if the evidence is as strong as true believers like to pretend, it would be self evident.

Doubting Thomas? Yes, I am. Show me the holes & I'll readily call proof, proof. Anything short of that is interesting, even evidentiary, but not proof.

 

[Muadib]

Indeed i personally think technological explanations are more likely to be correct

We do some pretty incredible things via technological rather than supernatural mechanisms

We can fly like birds, not as a result of supernatural mechanisms, but rather technological mechanisms
We can swim underwater to great depth like fish or whales.... Not by supernatural mechanisms but by technological ones
We can transplant organs and manipulate the very genes of life , again via technology not supernatural mechanisms

We went to the moon, via technological mechanisms not supernatural ones

(things that were not feasible, a scant few hundred years ago, but now are thanks to technology)

These models are beyond question, and imo they can help us model the bigger reality too.

Technology is a complex thing, how often have we heard Gene say take an iphone back 300 years and they wouldnt understand it, but would a supernatural explaination to fill that gap in understanding be a correct one ? of course not.

So too with the UFO question, that we dont yet fully understand the technology behind what we are seeing, is no excuse to settle for a supernatural answer.

And its not "settle" per se as much as it is to give up and fall back on a supernatural answer.

We can and should do better than that, i get thats its frustrating we dont yet have the answers, but science is catching up. Better to strive for a real answer, than be satisfied with a supernatural one for the sake of having one

Very well put Mike and to go a bit further, giving an Iphone to someone 300 years in the past and having them label it as from the Gods or the Devil, based on their perspective, wouldn't do a damn thing to help explain how it worked or what it was, it wouldn't explain how the battery functions or how information and even your very voice itself could be transmitted over vast distances. What supernatural explanation provided, for something that we can now observe and actually see how it works, was ever correct? I can't think of a single one off the top of my head. So why in the world should this be any different?

Rosemary is, as Chris said, to be applauded for going out and doing field work for however many years, I never said any different, but this absolutely does not make her even close to correct and IMO she should know better than to take what is essentially folklore and mythology and mix it with what is possible fact. There are people who have spent their entire lives developing theories that turn out to be incorrect, this is a demonstrable fact. So we can assume that the number of years you spend on something doesn't always equal the correct answer. The only thing left is to examine the evidence and as Ufology said since Rosemary isn't actually trying to prove that these things exist, I have absolutely no rational reason to believe that they do. So until we can prove the reality of Djinn's or Demon's, taking this phenomenon and applying that label gets us absolutely nowhere. Not only does it not get us anywhere, it actually moves us backwards.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

All of seen is in this thread from sceptics with closed minds is bagging Chris. If you not experience these incidents what ever it is ? you just keep going through life ridiculing. I don't give shit what sceptics think or academics ! Chris have a whiskey and play some tunes

 

[mike]

They say the truth is out there

It doesnt seem to be down here

I'm not a skeptic, i'm a believer with a robust standard for proof.

I reject the premise

All of seen is in this thread from sceptics with closed minds is bagging Chris

What i see are ppl who want the truth, but reject fairytale answers

And thats how it should be imo

 

[nameless]

here it comes.....

 

[nameless]

 

[Angel of Ioren]

She mentions, about 20 minutes into the show, that the San Luis Valley is "riddled with Djinn." Chris, have you caught any on camera? Do you have any interesting footage that you've caught?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

SO she went through the gamut of apparently ALL explanations for shadow people and came up with the Djinn.... Also, at 48 minutes or so she says," I have never in my work attempted to prove something scientifically." SO how about she presents her material as folklore instead of pretending that it's real? That would earn her a lot of respect, because this stuff is really quite interesting. It's just that when you present it as possibly being something more than folklore and legend, you come of sounding a little wacky.
There are a lot more explanations out there that are based in reality.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Mrs Rosemary Ellen Guiley gave a good entertaining interview
Thanks Gene and Chris for asking our questions
'Science cannot provide all the answers' | Science | The Guardian

 

[Angel of Ioren]

So after listening to the whole show, I understand that Rosemary is knowledgeable with the material. I just can't get over the fact that she thinks this goes beyond cultural folklore.

 

[Randall]

So after listening to the whole show, I understand that Rosemary is knowledgeable with the material. I just can't get over the fact that she thinks this goes beyond cultural folklore.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. I'd like to clarify what I meant when I said that Rosemary's expression of her worldview doesn't seem to equate with reality. It may be that although she is a writer, she's still struggling with expressing some of these concepts, and that when she says that things like the Djinn are supernatural beings, that what she really means is that in the context of the folklore they are supernatural ( which seems true ), but that there also seems to be some real and as of yet unexplained phenomena that may be connected with these myths. Unfortunately, if that is what she was trying to express, she wasn't getting that idea across so much as reinforcing the idea that the explanation for the phenomena is actually what the mythology says it is, or when she offered other explanations like "higher dimensions" , it came off as another new-age catch phrase rather than something with a logical foundation. Perhaps if we were to get to know Rosemary better, we might have a better idea about how she thinks and what kind of person she is. Maybe if she were to come on the show again, we could have time to post these kinds of questions, and our hosts could focus in a bit more on these kinds of issues. Perhaps in that light, the show would not have evoked the kinds of critical responses we're seeing here.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I can't disagree with that, Ufology. If she took a different approach, I would probably not be as critical.

 

[Konrad Hartmann]

I enjoyed the episode, liked listening to REG, and found it thought-provoking. I realize that she wasn't presenting her Djinn idea as an explanation for every phenomenon, which is good because there are many single-button explanations out there for phenomena. Some Muslims might say that all activity is from Djinn. Some Christians may say that all activity is from demons or angels. Some Ufologists may say that all activity represents alien/ET business. Some fans of psychedelics may say that all meaningful human culture comes from entheogens. I was reminded, though, when during the episode hybrid Djinn were discussed, of David Jacob's discussion of the prevalence of hybrid aliens.

The discussion of the supernatural didn't bother me. For most of human history, we have had some concept of the supernatural and land spirits of various sorts. Whether or not we view them as real, there seems to be a slot for them in our mind, and when we clear out that space it tends to fill up with other things equally irrational. We all go a little mad sometimes. Let's make the most of it.

I appreciate that REG follows cases for extended periods of time. Many researchers seem to follow a report-bagger approach, just collecting endless anecdotal accounts without applying any longitudinal views. How people are changed by phenomena, as well as the cultural context of the experiencer (that's not a word. Experient?), interests me at least as much as the phenomena itself.

Here is what gives me the most pause about the Djinn idea. It appears to be the most established in the Islamic tradition. Is it workable to take one component, in this case, the Djinn lore, out of a fairly complex religious system? That is, if you are not a Muslim (and fine if you are, just saying), how do you say that one part of the lore is real unless you accept the others? If the Koran (or other appropriate holy book) accurately depicts the Djinn, then does it also accurately depict the rest of existence? By picking out one part of a body of sacred lore, do you unconsciously engage with the rest of it? Parallel questions may be equally relevant regarding angels and the Bible

On the other hand, regardless of how one feels about the validity of the Djinn lore or even religion in general, I feel that it is worthwhile to understand how other cultures perceive events, and it does seem like a great many people regard the Djinn as a real concept. What we believe or disbelieve heavily affects what we perceive, what we remember, and what we choose to relate to others. Those are three quite powerful filters.

Just jumping around here-while notions of Djinn may exist in antiquity far from Middle Eastern sources, it may be worth considering complications regarding them. Ideas may have been imported from Asia into Europe, ideas may have have merged with European concepts of supernatural beings, or in some cases European concepts may be relabled with an Asian name. The Roman Empire was vast, and they loved to mix cultural elements.

 

[mike]

Your armchair must by scorching your backside, pal.

Smokeless fire ?

 

[Bob Zanotti]

It’s amazing how often the wheel is re-invented in the paranormal, especially when money is to be made. I will refrain from further comment, except to say that the paranormal has become just another “industry” (The Paracast excluded). The “Djinn” have been around a lot longer than Islam or the Celts. In fact, we have to go back at least 6,000 to 8,000 years to the Hindu Vedas, and the Vaishnava tradition, in particular, where they are termed “subtle entities”.

To risk an oversimplification, the “Djinn” are the square root of manifested evil, and cover all kinds of negative entities and energies, as was implied and explained in the show. They do, indeed, attach themselves to humans, often to use human bodies as a proxy to enjoy carnal and other pleasures. They are largely responsible for seemingly unexplained shifts in personal behavior, and for addictions. This may well account for the rise in collective decadence in contemporary society, bevause more and more people are living in Darkness as opposed to living in the Light. To borrow from the Hindu again (but also from C.G. Jung), there is such a thing as “collective karma”. I fear that the US is suffering from this, fueled by the unbridled greed and materialism that has overtaken the nation. But that's another issue.

According to the Vedas, there is a special incarnation of Krishna/Vishnu very helpful in getting rid of these entities aka “Djinn”, or protecting ones self from them: Narasimhadeva, also known as Narasimha. Prayers and mantras offered to Hanuman are also very potent in dispelling and protecting again the “Djinn”. I have recordings of such protective prayers and mantras, which have proved very effective, based on my own experience. If there is an interest, I could offer them free of charge as a download via YouSendIt. Just let me know.

I am not a member of the Krishna Consciousness Movement, but I have good friends there, and they have been a great source of wisdom. Some years ago as an act of "service", I did a series of recorded discussions about key aspects of Vedic teachings, among them, Demons. You'll find all of them at the righthand side of this website under 'Introduction". Tele Radio Krishna Network
Bob

 

[Fcseven]

Curious what her opinion would be on rumors of world leaders and media personalities caught shape shifting on camera.

 

[Polterwurst]

The djinn wanted to prove to god (allah or whomever) that humanity is not worthy? So.... did the advent of internet discussion threads finally put them out of work or what.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The djinn wanted to prove to god (allah or whomever) that humanity is not worthy? So.... did the advent of internet discussion threads finally put them out of work or what.

So Twitter is the antidote to Djinn influence then?

 

[Randall]

It’s amazing how often the wheel is re-invented in the paranormal, especially when money is to be made.

It's even more apparent how obvious the wheel is reinvented when there's money to be made when you go to buy new tires ... and this is literally reinventing the wheel ... never mind the paranormal.

I will refrain from further comment, except to say that the paranormal has become just another “industry” (The Paracast excluded).

OK

The “Djinn” have been around a lot longer than Islam or the Celts. In fact, we have to go back at least 6,000 to 8,000 years to the Hindu Vedas, and the Vaishnava tradition, in particular, where they are termed “subtle entities”.

I thought you were refraining back up there at "Paracast excluded".

To risk an oversimplification, the “Djinn” are the square root of manifested evil, and cover all kinds of negative entities and energies, as was implied and explained in the show. They do, indeed, attach themselves to humans, often to use human bodies as a proxy to enjoy carnal and other pleasures.

Uh oh ... here we go ...

They are largely responsible for seemingly unexplained shifts in personal behavior, and for addictions.

Perhaps even impulsive keyboarding.

This may well account for the rise in collective decadence in contemporary society, bevause more and more people are living in Darkness as opposed to living in the Light.

Actually ... we're living more and more in Light every day up here in Canada, at least for the next few months ... and thank nonexistent God because I was getting sick of shoveling snow and constantly having to repair my igloo.

To borrow from the Hindu again (but also from C.G. Jung), there is such a thing as “collective karma”. I fear that the US is suffering from this, fueled by the unbridled greed and materialism that has overtaken the nation. But that's another issue.

Collective Karma? I'm not sure I have a real good grip on that concept. Have you heard of "Charazma" ... it's definitely linked to a particular pop-culture decadence that suddenly appeared in the mid 1980s.

The video below illustrates Charazma and decadence in some detail ...​

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... Did you miss the UFO? ... queue at 01:04:00 ​

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According to the Vedas, there is a special incarnation of Krishna/Vishnu very helpful in getting rid of these entities aka “Djinn”, or protecting ones self from them: Narasimhadeva, also known as Narasimha. Prayers and mantras offered to Hanuman are also very potent in dispelling and protecting again the “Djinn”. I have recordings of such protective prayers and mantras, which have proved very effective, based on my own experience. If there is an interest, I could offer them free of charge as a download via YouSendIt. Just let me know. I am not a member of the Krishna Consciousness Movement, but I have good frinds there, and they have been a great source of wisdom. Some years ago as an act of "service", I did a series of recorded discussions about key aspects of Vedic teachings, among them, Demons. You'll find all of them at the righthand side of this website under 'Introduction". Tele Radio Krishna Network
Bob

Apparently, invoking Vindalloo the is also a particularly effective at keeping most undesirable entities out of your cubicle. It also has the added side-car benefit of chasing off any entities that may have gotten inside your abdomen causing it to give off strange growling noises. Caution however, invoking Vindaloo can also have some undesirable consequences for those not familiar with it's power. Lastly ... Don't underestimate your own ability to change your destiny ...