911 Debate on Coast to Coast Live 8-21

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The easiest way to get someone to have an actual debate on the 9/11 subject is to cover issues that are not divisive, such as claims about explosions. The physical elements of the subject have done nothing but hurt any cause to get a new, independent investigation into the events.

Trying to present physics to people when you don't have an educated background on the subject matter to others who likely won't have that educational background either is a futile cause IMO. The TRUTH is I don't know if the buildings were blown up or anything of that nature. I know what my eyes see, but I also have an emotional reaction to that and could be wrong because I am letting my emotions get the better of me because I care about the subject. I have totally walked away from talking about those subjects, even WTC 7, because the truth is I don't know what I am talking about from a technical standpoint. Even if I did, I could still be wrong because I am emotionally attached to the subject. So I'll say planes brought down the towers and Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

However, that by no means says I am comfortable with the story given by the 9/11 Commission Report. There is no question that Muslim extremists were training at various military bases for some objective. Was it to carry out 9/11? I don't know, I lean towards no. I think they were being trained to use for our own means in another country that we wanted to attack. I think they were co-opted by some group who used them for a different agenda. I don't know who that is. I lean towards foreign intelligence agencies, like the ISI, and at least one private aerospace contractor. With the support of very few actual traitors in the military/intelligence apparatus. The wargames that confused military personal point to people inside having helped coodrinate the attack IMO.

4 names I would point out should bring up reasonable questions to the 9/11 events. Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, Lt. Col. Steven Butler, FBI agent (Chicago) Robert Wright, and FBI agent (Phoenix) Collen Rawlley are very key to getting to hard questions that do not have good enough answers. Not the views of "activists" but of people in our government that are patriots that tried to stop those attacks. Not their views based on their professional background either, but of actual involvement with tracking terrorist cells and being pulled off the cases by someone from above. But don't take my word for it, look up those names and information that relates to this subject. Tell me what you find.

It is much easier though to stay away from divisive topics like controlled demos or any physical events of 9/11. The wargames, the actual terrorists being trained at various bases (Pensacola, FL and Monterey, CA for example), the stories of people like the 4 I mentioned that can't be "laughed off" (along with Sibel Edmonds), the poor job the 9/11 Commission did with the investigation in general (according to 6/10 panel members themselves, omitting key witness testimony and not going far enough with their subpoena powers), allowing the head of the Pakistani ISI to leave the country when he was in DC on 9/11 despite him being involved with wiring $100K to the terrorists, and other topics like this. There are many. Far too many and this is why I still think the topic is valid. It just needs to be looked at more objectively by people on all sides.

---------- Post added at 05:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 AM ----------

BTW, reading some of the replies here I am reminded why I don't frequent the forums much anymore. A bunch of arrogant, hubris filled know-it-alls give their typical replies on this topic. Maybe if you actually did your homework on this topic instead of spotpicking every single strawman that comes down the road on this topic you would learn something? Nah, it's better showing how "intelligent" you are "debunking" important topics based on misrepresentations, strawmen, and flat out wrong info that most people who are "skeptical" of the offical story don't even suggest. I bet all of you who do that have actually read the 9/11 Commission Report. Right guys? That won't stop the debates being about controlled demolitions and Jewish conspiracies. Who cares about facts from real people directly involved with the events of 9/11 when you feel the need to look cool to others?

*rolls eyes*

Yes I read the 9/11 report and I find some of these conspiracies theories a load of tripe. Furthermore, many of my American friends served in the USA army fighting against anti-Jewish rants, anti-USA and anti-West BS. These guys earned the Honor of Bronze Stars, Purple Hearts etc for freedom of speech! I understand the truth should be told but some of these are just viral racist therories is shameful and even worse disrespectful to all the 9/11 victims may they rest in peace.

Peace,
BF

 

[Skymon876]

 

[cottonzway]

Yes I read the 9/11 report and I find some of these conspiracies theories a load of tripe. Furthermore, many of my American friends served in the USA army fighting against anti-Jewish rants, anti-USA and anti-West BS. These guys earned the Honor of Bronze Stars, Purple Hearts etc for freedom of speech! I understand the truth should be told but some of these are just viral racist therories is shameful and even worse disrespectful to all the 9/11 victims may they rest in peace.

Peace,
BF

Indeed there is a lot of tripe attacted to this topic. Outrageous stories about space beams and nonsene like no planes hit the towers are intended to be insulting IMO. Add in Zionists conspiracies as well to that mix. So in that sense, we agree.

I am also glad that you read the commission report. What did you take from it? Are you comfortable with the final conclusions?

While those theories are insulting, the search for real answers is not. The claims about the "victims" being insulted by pressing on to find facts and get a new investigation are very exaggerated IMO. They are often presented with more controversial aspects (controlled demo) to the topic or outrageous lies used to invoke anger (Jews, space beams, ect).

The problem is often people make these blanket statements without actually knowing any of the 9/11 victims. The family mebers and first responders. Let me say this before I go on and that is it does not sound like I am talking to you on the blanket statement part. You seem to be talking about outrageous and racist claims being insulting to the victims. We agree on this.

However, to the people who use it as a blanket statement I say to them that they do not know what the hell they are talking about. A couple years ago I was up in NYC with my wife. We just took a day trip to walk around. I go past the WTC complex and I see a protest. I'm curious, so I walk over. I figured it was just some college kids. I see two guys hooked up to oxygen tanks among the group of protesters. Not old guys either, maybe in their early 40's. So I walk up to them and ask them what is going on. They were both former EMTs and both former military. They were first responders on 9/11. They were on oxygen because of the shit in the air caused serious health problems later on for them. They lost friends and seem horriffc things that day. As I shake their hands before getting ready to leave I look into their eyes. You can see the pain. You can tell that they feel they have been mislead as to what happened. You now know that the stories used to say "9/11 victims are insulted" by people who want a new investigation to the events are not what it seems. These are heros and patriots, not nutjobs. Not people I am going to ridicule. I remember doing my best not to cry when walking away, but it was not possible. I got home and checked out if who there said they are was indeed true. It was true. After that I contacted them via e-mail and befriended them. I doanted to groups like the "Feal Good Foundation" that takes donations for forgotten 9/11 first responders. I met men like Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine, who headed up 9/11 family members groups. Both lost their sons. Both furious at the conclusions the 9/11 Commission Report had given them for the murder of their sons and even more angry at these phoney claims about "the victims are insulted by questioing the events of 9/11" when it was a flat out lie the media spun time and time again. It's wrong when people do that and I can say that from personal experience. I would bet most people who through that out there have no personal experience like that, but that won't stop them from saying it's the truth. It never does.

 

[Skymon876]

 

[cottonzway]

Heros like Dave.

 

[Skymon876]

THE TRUTH CAN SET YOU FREE

 

[Kieran]

It's depressing reading postings from intelligent forum members who claim 9/11 was a false flag operation. There is so much ill-informed discussions taking place on the internet about the the Middle East region, it scary.

In 1993 when a van packed with explosives detonated, and killed 6 people, was this a funded CIA-Mossad backed operation? Come of it "Ladies and Gentlemen".. the Twin Towers was a target for Middle eastern terrorists, as far back as the nineties, as proven by the daring attack on one of the twin towers in New York city.

The Terrorist and Engineer, who created and designed the Bomb that eventually exploded "Ramzei Yousef.. said* if I had more explosive that tower would have come down. I'm very disappointed!! He believed that he had enough explosive to collapse tower one on itself like a pancake.

The Bombing of the USS Cole, the Bombing of US embassies in Africa 1998. Were these attacks done by the CiA-Mossad too since September 11 most have been according to some "why not the other attacks?

September 11 hopefully will never be repeated, and will only ever be a one of event, but there was a steady string of atrocities and prevented attacks carried out by members of the Al Qaeda group right up to that date of 2001.

In 1999 Al Qaeda operative was stopped at the border of Canada/US and Custom officials found Inside the boot of the car, he was driving, enough explosive to kill many hundreds of people. The chatter among intelligence sources was that Al Qaeda had plans to detonate Bombs in New York at New Year Eve 1999.
It never took place most probably because they had stopped this Terrorist from entering the country. What this shows is a pattern of Al Qaeda wanting to the strike the United States, and having there eyes on particular place inside the United States (New York City)
Al Qaeda is not an American invention or something created by the CIA. That is false and over-stated myth. Al Qaeda have many members that were once part of the Mujahideen., and many members joined after the Civil war of the 1990's. The Mujahideen were supplied and given weaponry like (stinger missiles) to fight the Russians, but there no widespread training regime or Camps set up by US forces . There was CIA operatives in country, helping out, but you can't say Al Qaeda came to be because of the Americans.
In the 90's Al Qaeda was formed in opposition to the Northern Alliance remember those folks who did the fighting for the Americans in Afghanistan in 2001, while the American bombed the crap out of the mountain areas. The Northern Alliance were supported by the CIA and The US government. The United States was no longer a friend but a enemy to Bin Laden in the early nineties.

Bin laden being a CIA Agent or whatever is so stupid I shouldn't really take the time to comment on it. But it really shows up the ignorance of people when they suggest otherwise. And Frequently the Taliban would not allow the finger of blame to be pointed in their direction if Bin Laden was CIA. They would have Killed him in the early nineties and before 2001.

I have watched this alleged Fake video.. The hand gestures, speech, and the body motion of the man in the video. For me confirms, he is Bin Laden. I could talk about the terrorists themselves and their lives in Pakistan and Hamburg and why I personally believe, there not CIA trained operatives and back this up with factual and real evidence not hearsay and speculation.

But I leave that for another time it nice outside side so going to have a cool one and relax for a hour or two.

 

[cottonzway]

It's equally depressing for me to see intelligent forum members to make up their mind on the topic without looking at info other then what they have "debunked" and that is often presented as the reasons to why questions to the events are still being asked that I find to be an incorrect mehtod of trying to get that point across. It's very frustrating to see how this topic is handled here. One of the most confusing things to me is how members of a paranomal message board are so quick to use terms like "nutjobs and kooks" when they have an interest that a lot of other people would consider along those lines. That of course is not to say they are, but the perception by a lot of people who don't have interests like this. I never understood that about people here who use that rhetoric when talking about others. I mean, speculating on what humans may or may have not done is "crazy" but speculating on paranomal topics is somehow more normal. It's one of the worst cases of throwing stones in a glass house I have ever seen when people here do this.

Every time I attempt to engage people on real issues about 9/11 it's ignored or at best people use every strawman possible. It is very frustrating to say the least.

 

[rhcball]

When my 9-month old starts talking, I'll ask him for the Straight Truth on 9/11, before this hell-world corrupts his Divine Purity. Any and all answers will be posted here immediately, also possibly promoted by Louis Jarvis.

 

[paraschtick]

It's depressing reading postings from intelligent forum members who claim 9/11 was a false flag operation. There is so much ill-informed discussions taking place on the internet about the the Middle East region, it scary.
...
But I leave that for another time it nice outside side so going to have a cool one and relax for a hour or two.

Wow you are so seriously misinformed as to what went on on 9/11 it really is making me weep. You really ought to listen to some truly informed people. People who have done some decent research into what went on on that terrible day. Check out the wingtv.net archives for instance. Victor Thorn and Lisa Guliani have done some stellar work into figuring out what went on with Flight 93 for instance. That is something that is not talked about a lot, and just reading or listening to their interviews will give you a totally new insight into what really went on.

Also check out Dave Macgowan's website. He was the first to question what went on on 9/11 on Sept. 12th 2001:

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/

Or listen to people like Alan Sabrowsky who used to work for the US Army War College, and kind of knows a few things about intelligence matters. He is no fruitcake. He knows that Israel and maybe the CIA did 9/11. In his mind there is no question about it. Oh, and for the record, he is of Jewish descent.

You might also like to read this article by a ... shock-horror ... Muslim about 9/11:

http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/at...e-evidences&catid=58:the-911-event&Itemid=115

Listen to and read the articles of Michael Collins Piper. He is the one of the most consistent people I know in the patriot/truth community ... and a truly fascinating guy. More of him here:

http://www.michaelcollinspiper.com

and http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/newbabylon_podcast_081710.html

Other things you might want to consider:

(1) The dancing ISRAELIS ... as mentioned in the above article
(2) Larry Silverstein (leaseholder of the WTC towers) was big friends with BENJAMIN NETANYAHU (the architect of the War on Terror. He wrote a book about it in 1986!!!).

Just those two pieces of FACTUAL information should give you pause for thought. Oh, and as I have mentioned before:

When the towers fell, a passport was found on TOP OF THE RUBBLE. A passport belonging to one of the supposed hijackers. I was informed on these forums that "this kind of thing happens" apparently. Well I call that total bull to tell you the truth.

There are so many more strange things that went on that day that I cannot for the life of me understand why that nearly 10 years after the event, people still think that a bunch of Arabs did this. I truly am baffled by this.

But I know whatever I will say will not be accepted by people who want to believe the opposite. You cannot tell people what to believe. So I will leave it here again and just say that one day, Kieran and whoever wants to believe what they believe wrongly about 9/11, you will come to the truth one day, and you will kick yourself ... a lot ... and maybe for a very long time indeed.

Oh and PS: check out the USS Liberty. Israel attacked a US ship in 1967 and tried to sink it. She attacked it with planes, napalm and torpedos. Why?? Because she want to drag the US into another war ... oh ... and to stop the US from finding out about the prisoners she was executing on a beach at the time. One of the survivors of this hideous attack, Phil Tourney (author of a book on the USS Liberty incident) was recently threatened by either an agent of Israel or Mossad-wannabee. Why?? Because he wrote a book that showed how psychopathic Israel can be. But ... I guess thats neither here nor there ...

As always,

paraschtick out ...

oh and pps: Why do people believe that the government are covering up the UFO thing but also believe that the government are telling the truth that a bunch of Arabs who couldn't fly for toffee did 9/11??? I would love to hear an explanation for this ... cos I see a real and very strange disconnect there ... is it because people are anti-islamic??? Hmmm ... I wonder .

 

[Sean Elifritz]

It's equally depressing for me to see intelligent forum members to make up their mind on the topic without looking at info other then what they have "debunked" and that is often presented as the reasons to why questions to the events are still being asked that I find to be an incorrect mehtod of trying to get that point across. It's very frustrating to see how this topic is handled here. One of the most confusing things to me is how members of a paranomal message board are so quick to use terms like "nutjobs and kooks" when they have an interest that a lot of other people would consider along those lines. That of course is not to say they are, but the perception by a lot of people who don't have interests like this. I never understood that about people here who use that rhetoric when talking about others. I mean, speculating on what humans may or may have not done is "crazy" but speculating on paranomal topics is somehow more normal. It's one of the worst cases of throwing stones in a glass house I have ever seen when people here do this.

Every time I attempt to engage people on real issues about 9/11 it's ignored or at best people use every strawman possible. It is very frustrating to say the least.

Spending more than a minute considering this absurd notion is beneath anyone interested in reality. I am not going to investigate it anymore than I would someone telling me the sky is red. Seriously, with some things you have to be half crazy to even look into them. For instance, I don't have to research pedophilia to know it's wrong. 9/11 conspiracy theories are batshit insane on the surface. It flashes "Bullshit!" in 100 foot tall neon lights. No deeper look is necessary and if I ever find myself looking it's time for my friends and family to have me committed.

 

[cottonzway]

Spending more than a minute considering this absurd notion is beneath anyone interested in reality. I am not going to investigate it anymore than I would someone telling me the sky is red. Seriously, with some things you have to be half crazy to even look into them. For instance, I don't have to research pedophilia to know it's wrong. 9/11 conspiracy theories are batshit insane on the surface. It flashes "Bullshit!" in 100 foot tall neon lights. No deeper look is necessary and if I ever find myself looking it's time for my friends and family to have me committed.

Wow.........

 

[Aardvark]

Spending more than a minute considering this absurd notion is beneath anyone interested in reality. I am not going to investigate it anymore than I would someone telling me the sky is red. Seriously, with some things you have to be half crazy to even look into them. For instance, I don't have to research pedophilia to know it's wrong. 9/11 conspiracy theories are batshit insane on the surface. It flashes "Bullshit!" in 100 foot tall neon lights. No deeper look is necessary and if I ever find myself looking it's time for my friends and family to have me committed.

I would suggest that it is time for you to examine some facts that surround the collapse of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 on 9/11/2001. Your resistance in doing this is an indication, IMHO, that you have no interest in entering a reasoned discourse on this subject. I will not even pursue that your relatives seek your committal if you do choose this route.

 

[cottonzway]

Don't even bother dude. When a guy gets to the point where he brings up pedophila in his rant on why it's all "bullshit" there is nothing left to say. There is no need to attempt to engage that person in an actual debate. It's a total waste of time for both people.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Wow.........

Lol, last time I even began to debate a truther they told me that a video that was clearly OBL wasn't OBL. Well, where the hell do I go from there? Like I mentioned before it's like pointing at a blue sky and being told it's red. There's really nothing you can do but shake your head and wonder about their mental health. How on Earth could I not come away thinking truthers are crazy? And that's just the last time. Every experience I've had with truthers has been surreal. They make guys like Salla and Greer seem sane and meticulous.

 

[cottonzway]

Lol, last time I even began to debate a truther they told me that a video that was clearly OBL wasn't OBL. Well, where the hell do I go from there? Like I mentioned before it's like pointing at a blue sky and being told it's red. There's really nothing you can do but shake your head and wonder about their mental health. How on Earth could I not come away thinking truthers are crazy? And that's just the last time. Every experience I've had with truthers has been surreal. They make guys like Salla and Greer seem sane and meticulous.

That's fine. I am not really looking to waste my time with you after seeing your previous post. It would be a waste of time for both of us. I should point out that that if you read any of my posts in this thread you would see nothing of that nature and I point out actual information actual members of our military that really asks a lot of questions that are unanswered. The thing is you have made up your mind to the point where you think any discussion is "crazy" so there is not much to say after that. Nothing personal.

 

[rhcball]

You kiddos on either side of this issue need to take a big step back from the illusion of certainty.

If you have the time, look for Colin Bennett's take on 9/11 and other similarly enigmatic events--they straddle the border between interpretations and challenge the most basic notions of real and unreal.

I tend to think 9/11 was engineered by shadowy non-human sources, utilizing a horde of strange coincidences and synchronicities. Maybe it was the Collective Unconscious swooping down and taking charge to shove a necessary cataclysm in our faces for currently-unknown reasons.

 

[Aardvark]

the illusion of certainty.

That phrase is an oxymorism. There is a Truth, when we discuss physical facts, and that will only be revealed to those that pursue it.

 

[rhcball]

That phrase is an oxymorism. There is a Truth, when we discuss physical facts, and that will only be revealed to those that pursue it.

You are never going to have all the data on 9/11. I'm not just talking about the physics of the collapse, but about everything involved--hidden agendas, prior knowledge, covert funding, even the post-conditioning of the mass psyche in terms of framing an official and approved storyline. This issue is drenched in national security and all the secrecy that involves, so no matter how many engineers battle each other, there's still far too many wild cards surrounding 9/11 to ever approach a certain conclusion (barring some quasi-supernatural deluge of honesty/transparency).

A lot of times this debate gets hung up on thermite and the temperature of burning fuel, and skeptics tend to focus solely on these basic physical issues. But if you step back and look not just at the Newtonian angle, but at the wealth of eccentricities and 'coincidences,' I can't see how you can at least admit that the reality of what happened is a lot more bizarre than the Status Quo storyline.

For me, it's too easy and simplistic to accuse Cheney et al of sitting in a bunker with a detonation remote. I get the sense that it goes deeper than human decision.

...Also, with the 7/7 bombings, you have a number of odd 'coincidences' there as well. Take these two incidents in combination and I think it's fairly safe to assume that there's more going on under the surface (which is a more mild approach than to simply declare that this is undoubtedly a product of a sinister NWO conspiracy).

 

[paraschtick]

I would suggest that it is time for you to examine some facts that surround the collapse of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 on 9/11/2001. Your resistance in doing this is an indication, IMHO, that you have no interest in entering a reasoned discourse on this subject. I will not even pursue that your relatives seek your committal if you do choose this route.

I think Wickerman1972 and others just may be too scared to actually face the facts of what happened on 9/11. There are so many strange things that happened and have been shown to be actual facts that I believe that its incontrovertable now that Arabs DID NOT carry out those heinous terrorist attacks. If he actually checked out some of the sources I posted above, he may find that his paradigm might just shift a little, and maybe Wickerman1972 is too scared to confront that fear. I think that a lot of people subconciously know that something odd happened. They're just too scared to face the facts.

To actually know that parts of one's government actually goes out and kills its own civilians is a stretch for some people. But hey ... governments do it all the time. They send their own people to war ... in the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, wars that ought needn't to have been fought ... and wars that were started when factions in the US government and Israel in cohoots killed Americans on American soil. Its tough stuff ... and some people just can't face the reality. Luckily I can look at it outside of the US, away from the bought American media, and see 9/11 for what it really is. And I started seeing what it was on that very day when a passport was found in the rubble ... practically untouched ... and when the names of the hijackers were found TOO quickly by the authorities.