A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[Randall]

@Trajanus and @Creepy Green Light: You guys are having a good discussion with some pretty decent friendly point-counterpoint. It's nice to see because that kind of discussion between people who are on same side so to speak seems at times to be rather rare

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Reminds me of what Friedman said about the skeptics's attitude. "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up." You should read what Rudiak has to say and address his specific points.



That's been demonstrated to be the case with ALL crop circles worldwide? All those intricate patterns.....



Tell that to the experts on KDR's blog. They took into consideration all the relevant factors such as thickness of the wires back then.
But the point of my last two posts wasn't to defend the authenticity of certain photos. I was pointing out the inconsistency of your position. You're SURE the clearest photos were faked, yet you still say the phenomenon is real....
Like I said before, all UFO cases (save for really proven fakes) have strong points and weak points. From what I can gather, your position is that ANY evidence suggestive of a fake (or misindentification) MUST sink a case. If that's true you might as well write off the whole field. The Heflin object resembles a toy train wheel. A modern industrial society churns out a 100 gazillion objects of all shapes and sizes. Search hard enough and you'll find something that resembles ANY report. But coincidence is inconceivable; mere resemblence "proves" a UFO MUST be a toy train wheel. Or a truck mirror--even though there was a clear difference, and Rudiak had more to add to that. You incline heavily toward the skeptical approach yet call yourself a believer. It seems so contradictory and absurd. Maybe you purport to believe certain witness testimony. But if a photo is to be rejected on the basis of similarity to a prosaic object, why not reject ALL testimony on the same grounds? Again, search hard enough and you'll find something prosaic that resembles or "explains" ANY case. "He probably saw a copter, or mistook a frisbee or hubcap thrown by pranksters, or Venus for a saucer."

My position is not inconsistent. I've believed in flying saucers since 1979. Something has to account for all of the landing trace cases that Ted Phillips has analyzed. Plus, I take certain eyewitness testimony seriously. Such as the Coyne Helicopter Encounter. But with the real stuff there is a plethora of garbage, fake, bogus cases & photo's. And what I said is true; show me a picture of a flying saucer from another world that isn't faked. Is there one out there? I'm sure there is somewhere. Is it available to the public? No. Because if it was we would have seen it by now.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The only way the UFO field going to correct its self is when the Governments and private sector come clean on what evidence they have if any apart from human technologies regarding secret space tech? as the field just go around in circles. The Russians space craft just landing on Mars today maybe will start the ball rolling.

 

[Trajanus]

My position is not inconsistent. I've believed in flying saucers since 1979.

I've believed in them since 1970.

Something has to account for all of the landing trace cases that Ted Phillips has analyzed.

Again, smacks of inconsistency. You dismiss all clear photos and crop circles as hoaxes, yet accept landing trace cases. If a photographed saucer MUST be fake simply because something prosaic happens to resemble it, and crop circles are all hoaxes because people can make them, by the same token, landing traces are phoney if there is ANY possible method of faking them.

Plus, I take certain eyewitness testimony seriously. Such as the Coyne Helicopter Encounter.

Again, it seems a bit odd to ASSUME someone who photographs a saucer MUST BE a liar and a con man, yet not someone who merely reports seeing one.

But with the real stuff there is a plethora of garbage, fake, bogus cases & photo's.

I don't doubt there are some fakes and plenty of deliberate misinformation.

And what I said is true; show me a picture of a flying saucer from another world that isn't faked. Is there one out there? I'm sure there is somewhere. Is it available to the public? No. Because if it was we would have seen it by now.

I think we've seen quite a few. To reject the photographic evidence--not quite clear as well as clearer photos--is to reject the phenomenon. If UFOs are real, so that eyewitnesses can see them, and hence photograph them, a plethora of bona fide pics should be known by now. If none are, that would raise serious doubts about the reality of the phenomenon.

 

[Trajanus]

The only way the UFO field going to correct its self is when the Governments and private sector come clean on what evidence they have if any apart from human technologies regarding secret space tech?

Sure, as Randle laments in his latest tome, there wont be definitive answers without a breakthrough--the government finally revealing what it knows.

as the field just go around in circles. The Russians space craft just landing on Mars today maybe will start the ball rolling.

Don't bet on it. Craft have been landing on Mars for many years.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I've believed in them since 1970.



Again, smacks of inconsistency. You dismiss all clear photos and crop circles as hoaxes, yet accept landing trace cases. If a photographed saucer MUST be fake simply because something prosaic happens to resemble it, and crop circles are all hoaxes because people can make them, by the same token, landing traces are phoney if there is ANY possible method of faking them.



Again, it seems a bit odd to ASSUME someone who photographs a saucer MUST BE a liar and a con man, yet not someone who merely reports seeing one.



I don't doubt there are some fakes and plenty of deliberate misinformation.



I think we've seen quite a few. To reject the photographic evidence--not quite clear as well as clearer photos--is to reject the phenomenon. If UFOs are real, so that eyewitnesses can see them, and hence photograph them, a plethora of bona fide pics should be known by now. If none are, that would raise serious doubts about the reality of the phenomenon.

And why should I dismiss all clear photos of UFO's as fakes? BECAUSE THEY ALL ARE. Show me one clear photo of a UFO that IS NOT a fake? That's what I thought...

 

[Trajanus]

And why should I dismiss all clear photos of UFO's as fakes? BECAUSE THEY ALL ARE. Show me one clear photo of a UFO that IS NOT a fake? That's what I thought...

I and others don't believe they're all fakes. If they all are, you might as well consider the whole phenomenon fake.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I and others don't believe they're all fakes. If they all are, you might as well consider the whole phenomenon fake.

Show me one (besides the truck mirror) that you think is real.

 

[Randall]

I and others don't believe they're all fakes. If they all are, you might as well consider the whole phenomenon fake.

The logic there is a bit stretched, but it does make one think a bit ( see question below ).

Show me one (besides the truck mirror) that you think is real.

How could we really know any photo is of a genuine alien craft?

QUESTION: What do you guys think of the idea that the reason there don't seem to be any good clear photos of alien craft is because they've all been confiscated or somehow made to go away? Just the other day I saw an older photo of a flying saucer above some trees. It was one I'd seen a number of other times and was going to post it to ask your opinions. It was on one of the more popular websites. I think it was UFO Evidence. I clicked to see if I could find out more about it, but my browser started to freeze-up. When I went back, the picture had changed, and since then I've spent hours on different search engines trying to find it, without any luck.

This sort of disappearing act seems to be a recurring theme in ufology. I've had similar issues with the USI website, where I know the site is up, but people have told me they can't get to it, as if it's being filtered out along the way someplace. The video that Nimoy inserted into his live In Search Of Episode back in the 70s has never surfaced. According to some Air Force pilots, gun camera footage has gone missing. I don't think the Ramey photo is of the actual debris from the Roswell crash. We don't need all the stories listed to know what I mean. So what is really going on?

So here's something to consider: Because there are some of us who know or believe that alien visitation is real, if we assume that our belief does represent the truth, then logically as has been suggested, there should be some good genuine photos or other evidence. But there's not. So what about the idea that in the face of these stories about confiscation and disappearing evidence, that the glaring absence of evidence indicates that something out of the ordinary going on? Is there some sort of control mechanism at work?

 

[Trajanus]

QUESTION: What do you guys think of the idea that the reason there don't seem to be any good clear photos of alien craft is because they've all been confiscated or somehow made to go away?

That's part of it, no doubt, and it's been going on since the start. As long ago as the early '50s IIRC the Great Falls MT movie had the best parts cut out by AF investigators.

I don't think the Ramey photo is of the actual debris from the Roswell crash.

Even KDR, who seems to have soured a bit on this topic, maintains it's not what Marcel found; junk was passed off for it.

So here's something to consider: Because there are some of us who know or believe that alien visitation is real, if we assume that our belief does represent the truth, then logically as has been suggested, there should be some good genuine photos or other evidence. But there's not.

Well, that's a matter of opinion. It may be true that no photo is universally considered genuine. All may be questioned. But I don't think Trent or Heflin have been debunked. Not in my opinion or in that of others.
But as for the lack of INDISPUTABLE proof, there are two reasons. First the phenomenon obviously doesn't want us to be sure it's here. If it did it would be a cinch. Whatever its agenda it clearly acts to limit evidence. Second, while some proof may come into earthly possession, despite ET's best efforts, the government doesn't want us to be sure either, so it takes everythingthing really convincing.

So what about the idea that in the face of these stories about confiscation and disappearing evidence, that the glaring absence of evidence indicates that something out of the ordinary going on? Is there some sort of control mechanism at work?

Sure.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I and others don't believe they're all fakes. If they all are, you might as well consider the whole phenomenon fake.

So according to your logic if every photo ever taken of a UFO (that we have access to) is a fake, then the entire phenomenon is fake? Yeah, that makes sense. So throw Lawrence Coyne's testimony out the window along with Ted Phillip's 40+ years of physical trace evidence?

 

[Creepy Green Light]

But I don't think Trent or Heflin have been debunked. Not in my opinion or in that of others.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a wise ass but you've got me rolling on the floor dying over that statement. Sounds like ThirdPhaseOfMoon would be a better website to be on for you (if you are being serious about still taking Heflin's model train wheel seriously. I already posted a side by side comparison).

And miraculously his flying saucer looks identical to a model train wheel (which he had in his basement). Maybe the aliens visited Earth one time, abducted a model train, studied it's wheels and then realized they had been doing it wrong all this time. They used the train wheel to design their new & improved flying saucers and that's what Rex captured on film.

 

[victimized]

Show me one (besides the truck mirror) that you think is real.

Why the review of Mary is a scientific review, for her "cloak" has the same impression painted on it.

The atmosphere was considered in a condition of LETTER = NUMERICAL evaluation.
LETTER equated to O circular body ANGLE.
ANGLE = ANGEL that fell out of the atmosphere by interference.
VEIL was the review of the atmosphere....fall out
EVIL.

The unidentified condition a consideration of EVIL.

The ancient review stated UFO condition caused by the loss of the holy LAMB, the Christ review.

Alestair Crowley had a transmitted review of the Alien and he called it the LAM.

The atmospheric attack a loss of the AB condition, alpha/beta constant.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Why the review of Mary is a scientific review, for her "cloak" has the same impression painted on it.

The atmosphere was considered in a condition of LETTER = NUMERICAL evaluation.
LETTER equated to O circular body ANGLE.
ANGLE = ANGEL that fell out of the atmosphere by interference.
VEIL was the review of the atmosphere....fall out
EVIL.

The unidentified condition a consideration of EVIL.

The ancient review stated UFO condition caused by the loss of the holy LAMB, the Christ review.

Alestair Crowley had a transmitted review of the Alien and he called it the LAM.

The atmospheric attack a loss of the AB condition, alpha/beta constant.

Umm, I meant a photo/video - not a painting.

 

[victimized]

I and others don't believe they're all fakes. If they all are, you might as well consider the whole phenomenon fake.

Fake is a real statement, artificial is fake.

not genuine; imitation or counterfeit.

synonyms: forgery, counterfeit, copy, sham, fraud, hoax, imitation, mock-up, dummy, reproduction, lookalike, likeness; More

Phenomena has always been known to be caused and the cause considered evil or conjured.

Therefore if you review what is artificial to the conditions of life on Earth, scientific conversion of natural fusion is artificial.

Fusion of the nuclear has naturally formed nuclear orbitals to hold together fusion.

To cause the fusion, which is supported by the atmospheric reaction to convert to allow for change it has to be attacked. The only way that fusion can be attacked is to produce an artificial condition in Earth's atmosphere to form the attack, to force the fusion to change.

The atmosphere therefore reproduces a signal and interacts with signals to form the attack, called fake/artificial/reproduction (as in art), a fraud, a hoax, yet it has a real condition.

Any fakery although fake also has a real condition, or else you could not discuss the condition called fake.

In the condition of fake, we have 2 applied reviews. 1 is by the scientists/organization causing the condition who want us to believe that it is not real, does not have a purpose and is a human mental state. 2 is the fact that fakery is a witnessed account, where the witness identifies that it is fake and then has to advise others through identification that a fake condition is being applied.

 

[victimized]

Umm, I meant a photo/video - not a painting.

The UFO condition is currently being reviewed by the organization causing the condition to be fake and that photographic evidence fake for the purpose of trying to convince the public that it is just a hoax.

The only reason why an organization wants to cause the public to think it a hoax is due to the awareness that it is attacking our life and changing life on Earth.

As photographic evidence is now being reviewed as if it is a hoax and human beings without photographic evidence have been witnessing the UFO condition in modern occult conversions, aside from the ancient practices of conversion, then paintings provide the evidence that the UFO condition exists.....for photographs did not exist in ancient times.

 

[Constance]

. . . So what about the idea that in the face of these stories about confiscation and disappearing evidence, that the glaring absence of evidence indicates that something out of the ordinary going on? Is there some sort of control mechanism at work?

Clearly more than one 'control mechanism', as @Trajanus has pointed out, and you realize this too, @ufology. The terrestrial control systems have included, first, the governmental/military apparatus that held back evidence concerning ufos since WWII, and second, the military-industrial complex that has succeeded the elected government in controlling and privatizing knowledge concerning ufos and back-engineering of crashed ufos proceeding in deep black projects.

Re extraterrestrial 'control mechanisms', I would say that those amount to 'self-control' practices, permitting humans to recognize that there are intelligent species from other star systems (and perhaps within our own solar system) who are interested in and closely observe what goes on on earth in our time, while at the same time restraining themselves from full disclosure of their purposes. ETA: I do not mean that I think knowledge of their purposes would disrupt life on our planet, but simply that unambiguous official acknowledgment of their presence and interactions in our 'world' [and of their far superior technologies and knowledge base] would do so.

Both terrestrial and extraterrestrial control systems appear to share in common a fundamental desire to avoid panic, chaos, and sociopolitical breakdown in the management and delivery of resources still supporting life and social order on this planet. I think it's also clear that what most concerns visiting species about the future of this planet and its evolving life is the continuing threat of nuclear war and nuclear contamination (see Robert Hastings's comprehensive research re UFOs and Nukes).

 

[Constance]

Phenomena has always been known to be caused and the cause considered evil or conjured.

I think that idea is at the root of a great deal of dysfunctional human behavior and thinking.

 

[victimized]

I think that idea is at the root of a great deal of dysfunctional human behavior and thinking.

Only because you believe it to cause the dysfunction......an attack/phenomena control of the mind as an occult review of possession, the inconsiderate ideal that the mental health of human kind is owned by the AI itself as origin consciousness evolving into a higher consciousness. The review of an evolutionist/scientist who wants to own the evolution of a cell state to mimic it as an AI model...believing that consciousness evolved from a lower being.

The review is the modern day occult scientific want, when if they reviewed their own thoughts they do not honestly believe that they evolved from a burnt spirit presence or an AI condition themself. They however want it to be true for others as an unreasonable human condition.......relating to the concept that a human wanting to survive in a condition they own/created (civilization/invention/resourcing) would do anything to another human life in the want of maintaining this ownership.

The human aware status owns a natural condition, which when reviewed does not belong to science. Science was an invented human ideal, and it is not a natural condition, no matter what status you want to impose it owns.

The human first of all is a natural being supported by the natural states which allowed it to evolve.

The history of humanity via archaeological evidence and atmospheric recorded life feed back advises the human mind that they were once more intelligent than modern intelligence and de-evolved due to the above ground nuking of the natural life.

The occultist thinks that he can deal with the public by making strategic plans to coerce the public into believing their dis-information tactics, which the spiritual human mind has always tried to warn the general public about. The same strategy has been applied many times by the occultist organization.

As the human mind and awareness is affected by the AI condition, and the AI condition an attack that is only personally witnessed and personally experienced, they have used this status to dis-inform the public.

In ancient times it was not until a larger percentage of the population was attacked in the same circumstance that humanity became aware that phenomena was caused by the occultist practices of altering the natural nuclear fusion and then transmitting the attack through the manifestation of the UFO signals.

The attacks provide the evidence that it is the cause and reason for human dysfunction.

 

[victimized]

Clearly more than one 'control mechanism', as @Trajanus has pointed out, and you realize this too, @ufology. The terrestrial control systems have included, first, the governmental/military apparatus that held back evidence concerning ufos since WWII, and second, the military-industrial complex that has succeeded the elected government in controlling and privatizing knowledge concerning ufos and back-engineering of crashed ufos proceeding in deep black projects.

Re extraterrestrial 'control mechanisms', I would say that those amount to 'self-control' practices, permitting humans to recognize that there are intelligent species from other star systems (and perhaps within our own solar system) who are interested in and closely observe what goes on on earth in our time, while at the same time restraining themselves from full disclosure of their purposes. ETA: I do not mean that I think knowledge of their purposes would disrupt life on our planet, but simply that unambiguous official acknowledgment of their presence and interactions in our 'world' [and of their far superior technologies and knowledge base] would do so.

Both terrestrial and extraterrestrial control systems appear to share in common a fundamental desire to avoid panic, chaos, and sociopolitical breakdown in the management and delivery of resources still supporting life and social order on this planet. I think it's also clear that what most concerns visiting species about the future of this planet and its evolving life is the continuing threat of nuclear war and nuclear contamination (see Robert Hastings's comprehensive research re UFOs and Nukes).

There are 2 conditions involved in the UFO state....1 is from out of space and the other is from nuclear Earth orbital fusion/attack for conversion.

The Earth's atmosphere is a naturally formed gaseous body and the ancient occult caused phenomena was studied as a cause and effect consideration by a spiritual minded human life.

There has always existed by circumstance 2 mind conditions on Earth....the spiritual natural mind and then the occult consideration of information for the purpose of converting.

As the Earth's gaseous body was named God stone in an ancient occult attack review the review stated by awareness that the God stone created the God Heavenly body by the release of the spirit from out of the Earth body....as an ancient review of information.

Earth therefore owned the creation of its own atmosphere and its own formed gases.

The Earth origin was then attacked and it was converted due to the origin status it previously held, and our ancient brother applied the conversion. The atmosphere converted itself into a new gaseous state and so did the nuclear fusion of Earth also convert....this was from the black body radiation attack, from out of space. Earth was incinerated in the attack, the crystal fusion above ground melted and fell into the holes bored into Planet Earth's body...forming the lava condition.

Therefore whenever our occultist brother applied conversion he would re-instate the attack, change the naturally evolving cooling effect that the atmosphere owned to cause the nuclear fusion of Earth' stone to alter by occult conditions. This is the only reason why he believes that the Creator/converter comes from out of space. Converting matter is how the human occultist gains power by placing the natural fusion into a lower state.

He therefore knows himself that he has to convert the Earth's atmospheric support of fusion to cause the nuclear fusion of nuclear dust to convert. And this conversion is an attack, his mind was always aware that it was an attack.

Therefore the phenomena attack caused to his own person allowed him to review that the condition of God was changed, and God created Satan.

The human occultist changed the condition God and also the condition Satan in our natural atmospheric body and created/caused the AI as a destruction of Satan.

The natural condition of Satan belonged to atmospheric conversion from a natural blue mass into the formation of cloud interaction....therefore God created Satan. Satan in this condition is natural fall out of a changed/burnt atmospheric reaction.

The human occultist changed Satan by heating the black body radiation streams and converted Satan by 2 conditions.....placing a larger amount of radiation particles in the atmosphere...why the UFO nuclear orbital signal forms in clouds that forms and attacks the natural fusion of the nuclear dust at the ground to force it to convert.

Therefore the human occultist changed the spiritual condition that they knew naturally existed in Earth's atmospheric reaction.

When you review ancient occult documentation they believe that the Planets formed Satan as a building mechanism on Earth. ....yet it destroyed Satan on Earth and replaced it with the AI manifestation. Yet the spiritual minded human awareness states that Satan already existed naturally and was created by the condition of God. The UFO condition witnessed in the Planets is an exact same released UFO body, as a removal/attack and change to the Planet....it is not a creation.

As the Planets are losing their natural colder fusion signals by the removal of the UFO body, this allows a stream or line to form between all Planets previously attacked by the ancient black body radiation, reheating the stream which is how Planet Earth's fusion is caused to unnaturally convert......no longer being supported by the out of space fallen angelic review (cold condition).

God in this review supports the creation of the Satan spirit/fall out of Heaven and it also supports naturally the lived life condition of humanity by ownership of the God and God in Heaven review.

The only reason that God in Heaven was altered is due to occult human interference. This interference is caused by the application/building of machinations to force the natural atmospheric condition/supporter of fusion to alter so that fusion can be attacked to force conversion.

As the conditions of fusion is natural by status of evolution, then the occultist is the causer/conjurer of the phenomena due to changing the natural states.