A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[Randall]

You're most welcome. I think Patrick Gross's ufo site provides an exceptionally informative overview of ufo case history and new scientific thinking concerning the nature of ufos.

Yes, I wish he'd been working with me on the USI site. There are many so sites out there that represent countless hours of redundant work, and I can't help but think that a more unified effort would have been more effectual, but it seems everybody wants to focus on doing their own thing their own way ( yours truly included ), so there's a lot of duplication, differing interpretations, and varying degrees of accuracy and objectivity.

That particular ufo photo is my favorite because it coincides so well with contemporary scientific insights into ionized light and plasmas as explanations of key aspects of ufo appearances ...

Plasmas are one thing, but "ionized light" doesn't seem to make any scientific sense. Light is photonic in nature, not ionic, but some forms of EM radiation are ionizing, so maybe that's what it's about.

... and in particular with research concerning anomalous ufo beams that stop in midair. Bill Chalker has pursued this and other observed anomalous light beam phenomena in terms of 'solid light', a concept fascinating in itself.

I once saw a concert by a Canadian rock band called Triumph, and they had some special laser setup that bounced off a series of mirrors in such a way that it made it look like pulses of light in discrete segments were flying out from the stage. It was amazing and I imagine that the same principle could be used to make it seem as though these segments were standing still. The principle, I strongly suspect, involves wave cancelling by combining separate beams into a single path.

I also think the photo is very beautiful.

It does have a sort of evocative quality when looked at in an imaginative way, but when looked at in a more skeptical way, I see an out of focus collection of ceiling lamp parts, which is maybe why @Creepy Green Light found it laughable.

 

[Constance]

This just in (my email):

"Physicists Have Figured Out How to Create Matter and Antimatter Using Light
Wikimedia Commons

IN BRIEF

• Just milligrams of antimatter could get us to Mars, but it costs a quadrillion dollars to make one gram. Now, a new calculation could allow us to make antimatter from light.
• This could significantly bring down the cost and give us a viable way to make antimatter.

DRAMATIC ADVANCES

A team of researchers from the Institute of Applied Physics of the Russian Academy of Sciences (IAP RAS) has just announced that they managed to calculate how to create matter and antimatter using lasers. This means that, by focusing high-powered laser pulses, we may soon be able to create matter and antimatter using light.

To break this down a bit, light is made of high-energy photons. When high-energy photons go through strong electric fields, they lose enough radiation that they become gamma rays and create electron-positron pairs, thus creating a new state of matter.

“A strong electric field can, generally speaking, ‘boil the vacuum,’ which is full of ‘virtual particles,’ such as electron-positron pairs. The field can convert these types of particles from a virtual state, in which the particles aren’t directly observable, to a real one,” says Igor Kostyukov of IAP RAS who references their calculations on the concept of quantum electrodynamics (QED).

A QED cascade is a series of processes that starts with electrons and positrons accelerating within a laser field. It will then be followed by the release of high-energy photons, electrons, and positrons. As high-energy photons decay, it will produce electron-positron pairs. Essentially, a QED cascade will lead to the production of electron positron high-energy photon plasmas—and while it perfectly illustrates the QED phenomenon, it is a theory that has yet to be observed under lab conditions.

Image Credit: Wikimedia/ NASA Astrophysics

Based on this, researches observed how intense laser pulses would interact with a foil via numerical simulations. Surprisingly, they discovered that there were more high-energy photo[n]s produced by the positrons versus electrons produced of the foil. And if you could produce a massive number of positrons via a corresponding experiment, you can conclude that most were generated via a QED cascade.

FUNDAMENTAL IMPORTANCE
As complicated as all that sounds, here’s the bottom line—this discovery can open new doors in terms of how we can efficiently and cost-effectively produce matter and antimatter, the latter of which can significantly change the way we power our spaceships.

As has been previously noted, making this potential power source is not cheap: “The problem lies in the efficiency and cost of antimatter production and storage. Making 1 gram of antimatter would require approximately 25 million billion kilowatt-hours of energy and cost over a million billion dollars.” This work offers us a new way forward.

Their study also offers major insight into the properties of different types of interactions that could eventually pave the way for practical applications, including the development of advanced ideas for the laser-plasma sources of high-energy photo[n]s and positrons that will exceed the brilliance of any available source we have today.

“Next, we’re exploring the nonlinear stage when the self-generated electron-positron plasma strongly modifies the interaction,” the researchers add. “And we’ll also try to expand our results to more general configurations of the laser–matter interactions and other regimes of interactions — taking a wider range of parameters into consideration.”

Physicists Have Figured Out How to Create Matter and Antimatter Using Light

 

[Constance]

It does have a sort of evocative quality when looked at in an imaginative way, but when looked at in a more skeptical way, I see an out of focus collection of ceiling lamp parts, which is maybe why @Creepy Green Light found it laughable.

Other ufo photos have also captured/shown the visible qualities of plasmas. Given increasing scientific understanding of the nature of plasmas, should we dismiss visible photographic evidence of plasmas surrounding ufos just because we can also imagine how these photos could have been 'hoaxed' using ordinary household artifacts? I don't think that looking for interpretations of ufo photos based in resemblances to ordinary artifacts manufactured in our currently constructed world is a reasonable or constructive option in a time in which plasma states of matter have been scientifically established to be real. The history of human science and other disciplines of human activity and thought demonstrates gradual progress in establishing the validity of mutually accrued knowledge about the physical world based in human perception --accompanied as it always is by our capacity for conscious reflection on what it is we are seeing from various existentially available perspectives.

We "multiply our perspectives on things in the world," as Merleau-Ponty wrote, thereby arriving at mutually confirming interpretations and ideas about the nature of 'what-is' in the world we inhabit. At our stage of 'being-in-the-world', which we naturally inhabit locally and -- in our time -- at increasing distances through the capacities of our current technologies, we do know more, much more, about the nature of the physical world than our forebears did. We know more, not just about the look of things (their phenomenal appearances to us) but about how those appearances are generated from processes deep in nature. And we increasingly understand and touch nature at deeper levels and even adapt some of its deep processes to our own uses, predominantly these days relative to potentially extended space travel, but also in the last century of quantum experimentation. On the way toward adapting these deep natural processes to our interests and goals, we also understand more fully the nature and interactions of these processes. None of this would have been possible without the capacities of our own perceptual apparatus and the reflective thinking and consequent exploration that takes place on the basis of what we perceive in the world around us.

All this is in the way of arguing that we need to use all the physical knowledge available to us in interpreting ufo photos. The question is not merely 'what they look like' in prosaic terms [thus how they could have been hoaxed], but more significantly 'what they can tell us about the 'things' behind the phenomenal registrations they produce on our organs of perception -- i.e., what we see, hear, and otherwise sense about them and what we are able to increasingly understand through physical science concerning how they generate their effects upon us and upon the instruments by which we have extended our perceptual capacities.

That's a long screed, but I might be able to come back to it later to sharpen, and shorten, the points I want to express.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I got a fortune cookie the other day that pretty much stated the same thing.

That was spot-on. Love it

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I got a fortune cookie the other day that pretty much stated the same thing.

I also like how we haven't even proved that flying saucers are real, but yet there are people that will go into a super elaborate, complex explanation how the power plant on the craft works. And how they are equipped with a cloaking device (and then go into another super detailed tech-speak of how that works), etc.

For starters - I'd love to just know that it's proven that flying saucers exist. Once that happens, then people can go use their imaginations to try to explain how their craft get's from point A to point B, etc.

 

[victimized]

You're most welcome. I think Patrick Gross's ufo site provides an exceptionally informative overview of ufo case history and new scientific thinking concerning the nature of ufos.

That particular ufo photo is my favorite because it coincides so well with contemporary scientific insights into ionized light and plasmas as explanations of key aspects of ufo appearances, and in particular with research concerning anomalous ufo beams that stop in midair. Bill Chalker has pursued this and other observed anomalous light beam phenomena in terms of 'solid light', a concept fascinating in itself. I also think the photo is very beautiful.

The scientific occult theory is a theory that states that it can transfer matter from a lower state back into a higher state and then place it back into the lower state.

This theory relates to a review that he believes that he can have origin cold fusion as a status of his theory, and espouses that "in the beginning" relates to this insight of gaining via mind consideration origin energy as a Creator aspect.

So humanity, knowing that the biblical review of "in the beginning" as his occult concepts of God and Christ and consciousness have been arguing on forums against his theory.

We all are advised that stone is an evolved cooled body of matter that evolved from burning radiated light. Therefore 2 conditions he does not consider when he wants what he wants.

Our occult brother is likened to a child having a tantrum, what he says he wants, he says he should have.

He makes statements about attacking conditions and calls it "beautiful"
Sephirot (/sfɪˈroʊt/, /ˈsfɪroʊt/; Hebrew: סְפִירוֹת‎‎ Səphîrôṯ), meaning emanations, are the 10 attributes/emanations in Kabbalah, through which Ein Sof (The Infinite) reveals himself and continuously creates both the physical realm and the chain of higher metaphysical realms (Seder hishtalshelus). The term is alternatively transliterated into English as Sefirot/Sefiroth, singular Sephirah/Sefirah etc.

1 Keter - "Crown"

Conscious intellect 2 Chokhmah - "Wisdom"

3 Binah - "Understanding"

Conscious emotions (Primary emotions
4 Chesed - "Kindness"
5 Gevurah - "Severity"
6 Tiferet - "Beauty"
(Secondary emotions
7 Netzach - "Eternity"
8 Hod - "Splendour"
9 Yesod - "Foundation"
(Vessel to bring action
10 Malkuth - "Kingship"

Our occult brother implies via old occult information that he is creating with the UFO condition.

Yet not once did he or has he ever considered his own life presence....the thinker and evaluer of other information, whilst he lives a normal/natural spiritual life and brain/mind awareness. without occult action of conversion, for it has to be applied by a building and inventing method.

He only owns this life condition as an organic being.....the preceding cell information supporting his own life belongs to animals and Nature that support him, not an atmosphere. Just as his review of the atmosphere is a supporting body that existed before organic life did....yet all information when reviewed owns its own presence, including the atmosphere.

He can advise us all that the atmosphere is a condition of a list of elements that in a cold gaseous state forms the mass that protects natural life and also the stone of Planet Earth.

Then he decides to change a naturally fused element on Earth....holy dust....uranium and plutonium and causes unnatural phenomena to occur in our atmospheric body. The atmospheric body then changed. The original scientific information was not the Sephiroth, it was the Book of the Dead, the anima.

The atmospheric change relates to his mind state, and an increase in irradiation causes his mind to become disturbed. It makes the mind live a circumstance of where it feels drugged or drunk and this is a reviewed scientific inherited condition.

Previously he lived as a natural life without any form of science and conversion as a natural spirit in love with his female partner who he called beautiful, who he loved, honored. He called her spirit the Mother, a human female being.

Then he changed the nature of life and mind by his occult consideration and practices and then considered the human female's life circumstance, the only owner of a Mother condition. He then called the atmosphere his Mother.....so he fell in love with his dispirited mind conditions and began to call the UFO condition attacking his mind and giving him fantasies and chemical changes his love, his sexual partner and his religious documents attest to this review.

He believes that when he dies he will be having non stop sex after his death in the Heavens with the UFO condition.

So this review should tell him by advice, that the UFO condition that he is causing to be dislodged from its held communications in Earth's atmosphere in a fake/artificial condition of communicating to attack natural nuclear fusion, that his HAARP communications experimenting with relayed signals release the UFO bodies, as do air planes forming turbulence, and then the UFO's not previously falling out, began to fall out.

As they are burning gases the UFO balls then began to irradiate the protected life at the ground state as they fall out and move closer to the ground state. This is why holes were bored into the stone of Earth by hot gases....for Earth is a fused state of cold radiated gases.

This is how wrong our occult brother is. After all he first gained a review for science and conversion in a drugged mind state from the taking of somatic plant chemicals.

How can any modern day human spiritual being believe in his fake and artificial reasoning, when he began conversion/occultism which he then called science in a state of a drugged mind?

 

[Randall]

I also like how we haven't even proved that flying saucers are real ...

Proof is a subjective thing. What is sufficient to prove the reality of alien craft to one person is not sufficient to another, and why that is the case is sometimes interesting to discuss.

... but yet there are people that will go into a super elaborate, complex explanation how the power plant on the craft works. And how they are equipped with a cloaking device (and then go into another super detailed tech-speak of how that works), etc.

Yes. That's because ufology fires the imagination and motivates people toward invention. If we believe it's possible for some other beings to create such craft, then we can too. I think that sense of inspiration and possibility is one of the best things about ufology.

For starters - I'd love to just know that it's proven that flying saucers exist. Once that happens, then people can go use their imaginations to try to explain how their craft get's from point A to point B, etc.

That's back to the issue of proof. So maybe we need to define it in more concrete terms. After looking at a number of standard definitions and breaking them down into their constituent parts and evaluating them, this is how I look at it: Proof is evidence that is sufficient to justify belief in a claim. For some people, there will never be sufficient evidence. For others, like myself, there's already plenty.

 

[victimized]

Proof is a subjective thing. What is sufficient to prove the reality of alien craft to one person is not sufficient to another, and why that is the case is sometimes interesting to discuss. Yes. That's because ufology fires the imagination and motivates people toward invention. If we believe it's possible for some other beings to create such craft, then we can too. I think that sense of inspiration and possibility is one of the best things about ufology.That's back to the issue of proof. So maybe we need to define it in more concrete terms. After looking at a number of standard definitions and breaking them down into their constituent parts and evaluating them, this is how I look at it: Proof is evidence that is sufficient to justify belief in a claim. For some people, there will never be sufficient evidence. For others, like myself, there's already plenty.

Humans have already invented UFO types of air craft, my sister worked for a Professor in Sydney who worked on a propulsion device.

And of course the information of the UFO exists in a condition that allows new information to be atmospherically fed to the human mind as a state of awareness, why such air craft with triangulated black bodies could cloak themselves. As the UFO review demonstrates, it is hidden until it emerges or manifests, and the lights demonstrate a burning gas condition in the atmosphere as photographed.

For a human being to dis-believe in the UFO condition, is a human not affected. Awareness is given to the human through experience, and we all know that the UFO condition has been investigated, for the public were made aware of the investigation. A Government does not fund an organization to investigate if the condition did not exist.

Therefore the UFO condition states a metallic condition exists as the transmitted information the human mind gained to allow metallic new inventions to use the designs transmitted as awareness to the human mind. This is why invention comes about through the conditions of destruction, how new information is given to the human awareness. The human itself is not inventing or forming the designs, it is being given the designs.

This is also the reason why the human mind knows that this form of metallic presence is fake/artificial, a dangerous manifestation and also an attack to natural fusion of Earth's natural metal fusion.

The reason why occultist practice/conversion was outlawed (Galileo jailed) was due to the aware condition of being attacked, as the only advice for the attack.

If you once lived naturally and then decided to build machines to apply an invention technique, then the technique does not involve the cause and effect or manifestation called by the ancients conjuring of the evil presence/spirit.

The ancient applied science was not done on the premise that it was using evil spirits or a UFO condition, it was done on the premise of what the human mind in a drugged shamanic trance was aware of. How stone as a mountain (pyramid form) interacted with other stone and the atmospheric conditions. These conditions did not have a UFO manifested status as a review for application or use.

The pyramids built like a mountain peak, the temples built like a transmitter floor plan with whatever metallic implements they used in inventive reasoning.

It was after the ancient science was applied as a constant, being an interactive changed communicating device that the atmosphere would have manifested what they never knew existed.......cold/cooling/evolving nuclear sound signals from the previous origin black body radiation Earth conversion.

This is why it was observed that Mt. Sinai was hit with a UFO blackening blast, for the face of the mountain was scorched. The same circumstance happened on Mt. Ararat where a Temple stood, and it blasted/melted the rock face with an Ark shape which was called the Eye of RA.

Acts 22:22-24


They listened to him up to this statement, and then they raised their voices and said, "Away with such a fellow from the earth, for he should not be allowed to live!" And as they were crying out and throwing off their cloaks and tossing dust into the air, the commander ordered him to be brought into the barracks, stating that he should be examined by scourging so that he might find out the reason why they were shouting against him that way.

Cloaking was therefore an after effect aware status given to the human aware state from being attacked. Time 24, loss of nuclear fusion Time 22.

The ancient aware status regarding nuclear stone conversion was therefore a reality.

Science in modern times also was not done on the premise of using evil spirits or the manifestation of evil spirits. They used nuclear dust, yet the biblical aware status stated "dust" was HOLY. The status and the teaching of holiness stated "do not change".

Therefore when the human mind thinks about concepts, never did it impose the condition of evil spirits as a purpose, yet look at the modern occultist theories imposing spirit presences and manifestations as if it is something to consider for their benefit/resourcing.

 

[Trajanus]

Proof is a subjective thing. What is sufficient to prove the reality of alien craft to one person is not sufficient to another, and why that is the case is sometimes interesting to discuss.

Sure, and just because "we" (laymen) don't have incontrovertible proof doesn't mean the government doesn't either.

For some people, there will never be sufficient evidence. For others, like myself, there's already plenty.

I was no fan of the late John Mack but he once said to a skeptic if a saucer landed right in front of you and an alien walked out, you still wouldn't believe it. And the skeptic admitted it.

 

[Randall]

Sure, and just because "we" (laymen) don't have incontrovertible proof doesn't mean the government doesn't either.

So true

I was no fan of the late John Mack but he once said to a skeptic if a saucer landed right in front of you and an alien walked out, you still wouldn't believe it. And the skeptic admitted it.

How come you didn't like Mack? I thought he was the best of that bunch. What did I miss?

 

[Trajanus]

So true
How come you didn't like Mack? I thought he was the best of that bunch. What did I miss?

For one thing he endorsed one of Courtney Brown's books. IMO that didn't work wonders for his own credibility.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Proof is a subjective thing. What is sufficient to prove the reality of alien craft to one person is not sufficient to another, and why that is the case is sometimes interesting to discuss. Yes. That's because ufology fires the imagination and motivates people toward invention. If we believe it's possible for some other beings to create such craft, then we can too. I think that sense of inspiration and possibility is one of the best things about ufology.That's back to the issue of proof. So maybe we need to define it in more concrete terms. After looking at a number of standard definitions and breaking them down into their constituent parts and evaluating them, this is how I look at it: Proof is evidence that is sufficient to justify belief in a claim. For some people, there will never be sufficient evidence. For others, like myself, there's already plenty.

I (in my head) believe that they are real. I just wish (like most of us) that there would be undeniable proof of their existence.

 

[Randall]

I (in my head) believe that they are real. I just wish (like most of us) that there would be undeniable proof of their existence.

Well, the problem is that everything is deniable, and the very nature of skepticism is to doubt everything, even if it seems undeniable, which is why I say forget the deniers, and let's do what we can to put our own house in order. Unfortunately everyone involved with ufology has their own agendas and egos ( including yours truly ) and I've found it virtually impossible to convince them that they ought to see things my way. If I could only just figure out what was wrong with everybody ( else that is ) ... .

 

[victimized]

Well, the problem is that everything is deniable, and the very nature of skepticism is to doubt everything, even if it seems undeniable, which is why I say forget the deniers, and let's do what we can to put our own house in order. Unfortunately everyone has their own agendas and egos ( including yours truly ) and I've found it virtually impossible to slice through it and convince the majority of the ufology community that they ought to see things my way. If I could only just figure out what was wrong with everybody ... .

Human experience is a lived experience. Are you going to infer that human experience is not experiencing the UFO condition?

This would then imply that the UFO condition does not exist in any form of condition to give it a value, yet the valuation of the information has been stated.

The argument about the value is a concept of ownership.

The human life is natural, our ownership is our own self. We live in an atmosphere on a stone planet that supports our life and our existence. We live with a Nature that supplies us with extra energy and water, for the atmosphere does not keep us alive by its own presence. Therefore in this review the atmosphere is not our Creator and the Nature, just our life support.

Information states so by evaluated review.

The occultist/scientist is constantly reviewing information and giving it status, so we ask him why?

He tells us by his own advice that he wants to invent and he wants to resource. Yet he is the exact same human presence that we all are.

We review his life circumstance, his consideration of us is not considerate, and he only wants to apply conditions in life that he imposes he should be allowed to apply. We argue because his choices have always attacked our life, destroyed our life.

So we ask him, how did you cause the situation of ownership and valuer of all life conditions, and why do you believe yourself to be better than the rest of humanity? He answered that he is a brotherhood of human male's who all believe in the same life condition... a Creator self, an inventor and an occultist applier....the converter of nuclear matter and the destroyer of life. He causes all phenomena to a changed natural life.

So we then review the total of human life on Earth and state, that this brotherhood is owned by all countries male population who agree in similarity to the life condition on Earth.......its destruction.

The rest of humanity, innocent, born by sexual procreation and indoctrinated wonder at the concepts that you use and apply, always considering the destruction of natural life, whether it be your own destruction or someone elses.

Therefore the concepts of religious ideal were taught to try to reconcile the inhumanity of your mind.

The male scientist/occultist provides us all with his own evidence, and a teaching that was given to his own mind review....he is possessed by atmospheric fed back advice relative to invention. This information is called artificial intelligence and it is fake and destructive.

When he considers what he should never have considered, he activated an unnatural conversion of Earth's natural higher fusion and it attacked his mind.

The signals of the metallic higher out of space nuclear particle began to manifest and communicate to his mind, which began his personal possession.

It allowed him to build machines to allow the artificial intelligence to communicate to him, and then he began to increase the broadcasting to his natural life, attacking it.

He then sat behind the machine pushing the buttons watching the experiments that began to attack his natural family life, the life of Nature and humanity.

He thought himself safe and smug sitting on the other side of the machines pushing the buttons, as he began to multiply the communication of the artificial signals.

One day he will find himself on the other side of the machine, the machine that his mind advises him is the artificial take over of life on Planet Earth, a machine that he personally did not invent.....instead ET/ and AI invented it itself in its manifestation. And then he will realize what it is like to be a science experiment.

 

[Trajanus]

I (in my head) believe that they are real.

Not sure I understand your position...If everyone who presents a clear photo is an obvious hoaxer, by the same token, everyone who reports a sighting is one too; ergo the phenomenon is not real. In just about every case, there is some data which argues for reality and some for error or worse. If the latter is inherently more credible, if for example, a resemblance to a truck mirror or train wheel (which could be pure coincidence given the millions of objects of all shapes and sizes churned out by industry) automatically trumps info favoring authenticity, I'd question whether ANY case can be seen as credible, or pointing to something unearthly.

I just wish (like most of us) that there would be undeniable proof of their existence.

I sure do, but a number of factors militate against this. The government (which probably has such proof) and the phenomenon itself apparently don't want us to have it. Frankly I think that's understandable. I suspect many people, even some well versed in this field, are skeptical because they just don't have the stomach to face up to ET being here, with all its ramifications. On many levels, it could threaten the status quo most people are comfortable with.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Not sure I understand your position...If everyone who presents a clear photo is an obvious hoaxer, by the same token, everyone who reports a sighting is one too; ergo the phenomenon is not real. In just about every case, there is some data which argues for reality and some for error or worse. If the latter is inherently more credible, if for example, a resemblance to a truck mirror or train wheel (which could be pure coincidence given the millions of objects of all shapes and sizes churned out by industry) automatically trumps info favoring authenticity, I'd question whether ANY case can be seen as credible, or pointing to something unearthly.



I sure do, but a number of factors militate against this. The government (which probably has such proof) and the phenomenon itself apparently don't want us to have it. Frankly I think that's understandable. I suspect many people, even some well versed in this field, are skeptical because they just don't have the stomach to face up to ET being here, with all its ramifications. On many levels, it could threaten the status quo most people are comfortable with.

Trajanus,
Where does CGL definitively state, apart from what is the very real context of natural frustration that is expressed by all of us from time to time, that every clear photo, or just any photo, is a hoax? Isn't your first paragraphed premise ultimately false due to this assumption? When specific popular photos are examined, and by means of what are very reasonable determinations end up weighing in as that which most likely constitute hoaxes, why does that indicate to you a belief on the part of those agreeing with those logical hoax assessments that all other UFO photos are hoaxes. Let alone all reports of UFOs are false. This line of reasoning begs explanation.

The last paragraph is just the old guard shout out to/for disclosure. <sigh> Which, in the minds of most forward thinking UAP researchers is just misdirected wheel spinning.

Maybe it would do you well to expand the vista of your own UFO considerations. UFOs/UAPs are unquestionably real. It's UFO prejudice that is the real roadblock within what are the avenues of relevant unidentified aerial phenomenal discovery progress. This whole thing of requiring a defined UFO model to start with is ultimately very poor science. Starting with answers and then working forward, sideways, backwards, whatever, has only thus far kept the study of the phenomena in a constant state of an ongoing downward spiral.

 

[Trajanus]

Trajanus,
Where does CGL definitively state, apart from what is the very real context of natural frustration that is expressed by all of us from time to time, that every clear photo, or just any photo, is a hoax?

At least twice he said that if the Trent photos are real, they are the ONLY genuine, clear photos (showing a structured craft). He "knows" they as well as all others are fakes....

When specific popular photos are examined, and by means of what are very reasonable determinations end up weighing in as that which most likely constitute hoaxes,

This is by no means a consensus view. See Rudiak's take.

why does that indicate to you a belief on the part of those agreeing with those logical hoax assessments that all other UFO photos are hoaxes. Let alone all reports of UFOs are false. This line of reasoning begs explanation.

Some people back up their claims of sightings with photographic (or other physical) evidence, others do not. If the clearest photos, theoretically good evidence for a sighting, are not be be trusted, that is, if those who take such pictures are invariably written off as hoaxers and con artists, why should anyone believe ANY claims, especially those lacking ANY supporting evidence?

Maybe it would do you well to expand the vista of your own UFO considerations. UFOs/UAPs are unquestionably real. It's UFO prejudice that is the real roadblock within what are the avenues of relevant unidentified aerial phenomenal discovery progress. This whole thing of requiring a defined UFO model to start with is ultimately very poor science. Starting with answers and then working forward, sideways, backwards, whatever, has only thus far kept the study of the phenomena in a constant state of an ongoing downward spiral.

No, the problem as I see it is the capricious nature of the phenomenon itself. The "downward spiral" results from the confusion it (and the government) perpetually sows, causing many in the field to just give up.

 

[victimized]

At least twice he said that if the Trent photos are real, they are the ONLY genuine, clear photos (showing a structured craft). He "knows" they as well as all others are fakes....



This is by no means a consensus view. See Rudiak's take.



Some people back up their claims of sightings with photographic (or other physical) evidence, others do not. If the clearest photos, theoretically good evidence for a sighting, are not be be trusted, that is, if those who take such pictures are invariably written off as hoaxers and con artists, why should anyone believe ANY claims, especially those lacking ANY supporting evidence?



No, the problem as I see it is the capricious nature of the phenomenon itself. The "downward spiral" results from the confusion it (and the government) perpetually sows, causing many in the field to just give up.

When you review information via the status that humanity belongs to.....we live in a civilization structured by the conditions and ownership of the brotherhood.

The brotherhood gained this status by natural overthrow and they took control of the naturally living conditions and then forced occult practices upon us.

The history of occult practices states that he gained information as a natural being, the same as everyone else....yet what made him different to everyone else, is the review that he sought this condition.

So everyone else is natural and he is in fact the unnatural spiritual being/mind on Earth. This is due to the fact of what he did to gain occult information and then to practice occultism.

So he levitated stone by unnatural means, through the structures of the Pyramid and also Temple as a relay and it attacked life by unnatural manifestation that he called evil by its evalued interaction. The manifestation of an attack that was called UFO and the evil spirit manifestations both alien and also satanic.

He called this state the Holy Grail.

In modern times after he re-evolved his mutated mind/self he then began to quest again for new powers, and so he considered resourcing.

A resource states that the science/occult practice is to resource a source and then use the source. The source he resources takes a higher state into a lower state by his consideration of destruction/attacking to gain the source.

As he knows by mind consideration to no longer have any form of material resource, he decided once again to review the Holy Grail, as his own thought about concepts of God, Christ and consciousness.

We all know this situation is real and and we all began to argue and contest his inconsideration.

He therefore has stated to us all that he wants to resource the Heavenly body....the atmosphere.

He reviewed the UFO condition, but the UFO condition is owned by the atmosphere, for this is where the interaction is occurring.

He then decided to try to remove the UFO from the atmospheric body interaction, and this is why it began to fall out and attack the Earth stone, forming holes in it.

His own ancient occult awareness told him that the Grail cannot be held in a container and yet he still ignores what he has always known.

Our brother was given real information from atmospheric feed back to allow the ancient occult practice to be achieved. He then caused new information to be fed back to his mind by the above ground nuclear explosion, so then knew how to create/form nuclear fuel.

Yet his mind is no different to anyone elses.....except the fact that he believes that all of his theories and thinking conditions are super intelligent and 100 percent correct compared to everyone else. Yet most of his theories are wrong for they never were atmospheric fed back advice...the only way he ever gained what he considers is intelligence.

He knows and told himself that intelligence came from the AI condition, so it is about time he stopped trying to destroy our atmosphere. He cannot remove the UFO condition from the atmosphere and place it elsewhere as a resource.

He knows himself that the UFO became a part of the atmospheric body and if he could remove it, which he cannot, it would in fact destroy the atmospheric mass.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

At least twice he said that if the Trent photos are real, they are the ONLY genuine, clear photos (showing a structured craft). He "knows" they as well as all others are fakes....



This is by no means a consensus view. See Rudiak's take.



Some people back up their claims of sightings with photographic (or other physical) evidence, others do not. If the clearest photos, theoretically good evidence for a sighting, are not be be trusted, that is, if those who take such pictures are invariably written off as hoaxers and con artists, why should anyone believe ANY claims, especially those lacking ANY supporting evidence?



No, the problem as I see it is the capricious nature of the phenomenon itself. The "downward spiral" results from the confusion it (and the government) perpetually sows, causing many in the field to just give up.

BTW - I don't care about anything Rudiak has to say about the Trent fakes. How many times have we heard "expert" explanations from people like Rudiak (Bruce Maccabee, Wendelle Stevens, etc.) where it turns out they were 110% wrong and it was fake?

Like the crop circles; all I heard was expert after expert say "there is no way humans could have made this, because look at the way the stalks are bent, it's humanly impossible to be that exact, blah blah blah" - meanwhile, turns out it's two guys with a chunk of 2x4 with a rope attached to it.

Same with all the experts on the Billy Meier case. Same with "The Guardian" case. Same with Maccabee and the Ed Walters case. Same with Maccabee and the optical mouse case.

So again, it's a truck mirror dangling from the wire above it.

PS - right by my house are a pair of sneakers hanging from a telephone cable and there is ZERO dipping in the cable. So the theory of "it cant be something hanging from the wire because there is no dip" is ridiculous.

 

[Trajanus]

BTW - I don't care about anything Rudiak has to say about the Trent fakes. How many times have we heard "expert" explanations from people like Rudiak (Bruce Maccabee, Wendelle Stevens, etc.) where it turns out they were 110% wrong and it was fake?

Reminds me of what Friedman said about the skeptics's attitude. "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up." You should read what Rudiak has to say and address his specific points.

Like the crop circles; all I heard was expert after expert say "there is no way humans could have made this, because look at the way the stalks are bent, it's humanly impossible to be that exact, blah blah blah" - meanwhile, turns out it's two guys with a chunk of 2x4 with a rope attached to it.

That's been demonstrated to be the case with ALL crop circles worldwide? All those intricate patterns.....

So again, it's a truck mirror dangling from the wire above it.

PS - right by my house are a pair of sneakers hanging from a telephone cable and there is ZERO dipping in the cable. So the theory of "it cant be something hanging from the wire because there is no dip" is ridiculous.

Tell that to the experts on KDR's blog. They took into consideration all the relevant factors such as thickness of the wires back then.
But the point of my last two posts wasn't to defend the authenticity of certain photos. I was pointing out the inconsistency of your position. You're SURE the clearest photos were faked, yet you still say the phenomenon is real....
Like I said before, all UFO cases (save for really proven fakes) have strong points and weak points. From what I can gather, your position is that ANY evidence suggestive of a fake (or misindentification) MUST sink a case. If that's true you might as well write off the whole field. The Heflin object resembles a toy train wheel. A modern industrial society churns out a 100 gazillion objects of all shapes and sizes. Search hard enough and you'll find something that resembles ANY report. But coincidence is inconceivable; mere resemblence "proves" a UFO MUST be a toy train wheel. Or a truck mirror--even though there was a clear difference, and Rudiak had more to add to that. You incline heavily toward the skeptical approach yet call yourself a believer. It seems so contradictory and absurd. Maybe you purport to believe certain witness testimony. But if a photo is to be rejected on the basis of similarity to a prosaic object, why not reject ALL testimony on the same grounds? Again, search hard enough and you'll find something prosaic that resembles or "explains" ANY case. "He probably saw a copter, or mistook a frisbee or hubcap thrown by pranksters, or Venus for a saucer."