A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[victimized]

Why? It is entirely in the realm of what we understand of the universe.

God requires faith and a suspension of all we know to be true.

Knowing that there is life out there is just math.

Our occult science brother.....unnatural choice in a natural life and unnatural applications....machines.

His spiritual advice, I am the Creator, I call myself God as a male concept.

Review.....the only male Creator concept is owned by the human male himself, present as his own self stating ownership of all of Creation, including God.
The human male gave God the value for he wanted to own what the atmospheric body already owned.

Review......our brother is greedy, our brother wants to own everything else and therefore gave himself the condition that he thought would allow him to own everything.

He valued everything on Earth, gave it a value, taught the values by status of personal dictatorship and told us all that he owned everything.

Now our brother wants to own the power of the Universe and advises us all about it. Our brother by spiritual record also previously wanted to own the Universes power and made it convert into a lower Universal body.

He also told us that he was the holy son of God .......SON and told us all that the holy condition on Earth was S I ON.

So his occult mind told him that he was holy due to his personal ownership as his own person.....the SON of GOD.

He also advised himself by his occult mind that (I) yodh hand of God was intensity of magnetism......SION.

He told us all that he wanted to convert the holy status SON of GOD and also SION, to own it again unnaturally, the status of the occult.

He made a value that he stated was called CONVERTING of SION = CONVERSION.

He also taught us that he personally as a human male was not the Creator, God was.
He also taught us that the human male ignored his spiritual Father and then blamed the female for not listening......yet he always advised us that he was the Creator, valuer and owner, and that he personally created both bodies...male and female. Therefore in this consideration he gave no holy status to his Mother.

Therefore he gave himself 2 identities in his mind....a Father Creator advisor and also a holy son.

He also advised his own person that SION was holy.....and then he changed SION.....the (I) hand of God (time) and also the intensity of magnetism.

Therefore he never listened to his own advice. His spiritual advice after he was attacked was that his Mother was holy, her spirit gave him his presence and that their cell state was immaculate....was not born through sexual conception, but have been given to both the male and female body as a state of creation. In this review his spiritual mind had already been attacked and his Father spiritual self was no longer present......his personal considerations of the Creator....his own male self.

He therefore had advised his own person that he had attacked his own person by not listening. As he has always believed himself the only real innocent self (Christ ownership) was why he blamed the female. Yet if anyone cared to review the condition stigmata.....all of Earth...the stone, the atmospheric body, all of Nature and the human female were all attacked by irradiation in the same moment....yet he only considered himself.

He makes choices, yet never knows the causes or after effects....for the after effects are only known when they are caused.

Therefore his past spiritual records state....I was a manifesting/de-manifesting higher Earth male self. I did not want to own the inherited life condition I gave myself....for I knew by information that I was the Creator of the Universe. I knew that I had personally caused the Creation for my own spiritual mind advised me. I was innocent of any wisdom, for I did not know conversion until I was converting....therefore my spirit self was always innocent of what it caused as an after effect.

The review states that you cannot know something as an effect until it is caused.

I did not know that when I forced change to light that I would manifest into a lower state....an organic presence. My intention was to convert myself back into a higher spiritual state....light. Instead I gained 2 conditions.....a lower state and also a converted state.

The review of human consciousness.....I want to convert fuSION. I do not know the cause and effect of converting fuSION only because I have not converted it yet.

Review.....the UFO phenomena witness causation of cause and effect.....what was not known. Therefore the human male gave it a value of the unidentified flying objects.

Experiments....I do experiments because I do "not know"....therefore I experiment. Even after I have experimented in a review of the UFO....I still do not know, for I never will know. Experimenting continually changes/alters the UFO condition continuing the unknown review as an act of causation.

Therefore I then subject the public to my experiment review, hoping that someone in the public will give me an answer to what will never be known.....the unknowable.

 

[Randall]

Yes, that's an opinion. For others the very concept of aliens from other worlds visiting here is entirely a magical concept.

It is a fact that the ETH doesn't require magical thinking. It is an opinion, with respect to what we in this discussion know, that the ETH is true. It is a fact that the ETH cannot be disproved. It is an opinion ( and a bad one ) that because the ETH has not been proven, that there are no ETs.

 

[Trajanus]

Yes, that's an opinion. For others the very concept of aliens from other worlds visiting here is entirely a magical concept.

Which is utterly absurd inasmuch as WE ourselves have begun visiting other worlds. So far humans haven't gotten farther than the moon, but astronauts may land on Mars before 2050, and at least one earthly probe--Pioneer 10--is now in interstellar space.

 

[Trajanus]

I don't see much difference between the Contactee talking about messages from aliens that preach peace and that we need to love one another and a Prophet who was in touch with a god who says you need to preach about peace and loving one another. Same degrees of proof exist for both.

A couple of additional points: First, messages received by contactees are often quite different. Second, the bible was written by people who lived decades after what they wrote about, in different places and without first hand testimony (and with various agendas). Contactee stories are open to question, certainly, but they aren't that bad.

 

[Burnt State]

So in response to all its one thing for us to go visit neighboring planets but interstellar travel is another event altogether. Only Eric Wargo's Anti-ETH ETH theory makes sense to me. That yes aliens exist elsewhere but would they risk the value of their long lives to go and collect soil and stool samples from other planets when you obviously have the technology to collect all the info you need without risking life and limb to the randomness of space? That to me is the magical component. And then in his theory small bits of alien tech may well be responsible for the Vallee control system and a series of ongoing psych experiments on the species of this planet. But infinite repeat visitation on the scale reported. ...does that make any sense at all? You might as well go with Stan's notion of our planet as a PhD graduate zone for young aliens - also ludicrous the way we see ET through our eyes all the time. Just because the possibility of life elsewhere makes sense it doesn't mean that travel to the Hotspot called earth on the order reported to date makes any realistic sense at all. And the supernatural effect on contactees should give us some insight into just how magical a concept it is.

 

[Trajanus]

That yes aliens exist elsewhere but would they risk the value of their long lives to go and collect soil and stool samples from other planets when you obviously have the technology to collect all the info you need without risking life and limb to the randomness of space?

First, we shouldn't assume, based on our own beginner knowledge, that interstellar travel will always be a very time consuming and risky enterprise. Second, observed ETs may be mostly expendable androids. And our astronauts were prepared to risk all to collect soil samples from the moon--a far less interesting or rare world as Earth.

Just because the possibility of life elsewhere makes sense it doesn't mean that travel to the Hotspot called earth on the order reported to date makes any realistic sense at all.

I think it does considering that a number of advanced alien worlds may be interested in observing or interacting with a planet in a crucial transition phase--the takeoff point of exponential progress. At any given time such a world may be unique in the galaxy.

 

[Burnt State]

First, we shouldn't assume, based on our own beginner knowledge, that interstellar travel will always be a very time consuming and risky enterprise. Second, observed ETs may be mostly expendable androids. And our astronauts were prepared to risk all to collect soil samples from the moon--a far less interesting or rare world as Earth.

I think it does considering that a number of advanced alien worlds may be interested in observing or interacting with a planet in a crucial transition phase--the takeoff point of exponential progress. At any given time such a world may be unique in the galaxy.

I agree that a more likely scenario is that a non-biological visitation makes the most sense for another species to conduct any interaction here with us. And yes their tech may make the speed of travel quite fast but I really wouldn't see why an advanced life form would risk travel on an interstellar level for perhaps, as per Wargo's thinking, longevity of an advanced race would make life all the more precious.

And I agree, we are a species that is in radical transition. We are both about to destroy our planet and set off for other solar worlds. That does make us an interesting species to observe. But just how many observations are needed and by how many different species? As it stands the visitation frequency speaks to me of something else going on I. E. a control system/monitoring program.

Our first forrays into space have been difficult in terms of sacrifice. Does it make sense to collect thay many soil and stool samples from us, or how about all those hybrid babies that abductees talk about? At a certain point the converstaion breaks down because the evidence of visitation exists in the mind of the witness/experiencer.

 

[Randall]

I agree that a more likely scenario is that a non-biological visitation makes the most sense for another species to conduct any interaction here with us. And yes their tech may make the speed of travel quite fast but I really wouldn't see why an advanced life form would risk travel on an interstellar level for perhaps, as per Wargo's thinking, longevity of an advanced race would make life all the more precious.

And I agree, we are a species that is in radical transition. We are both about to destroy our planet and set off for other solar worlds. That does make us an interesting species to observe. But just how many observations are needed and by how many different species? As it stands the visitation frequency speaks to me of something else going on I. E. a control system/monitoring program.

Our first forrays into space have been difficult in terms of sacrifice. Does it make sense to collect thay many soil and stool samples from us, or how about all those hybrid babies that abductees talk about? At a certain point the converstaion breaks down because the evidence of visitation exists in the mind of the witness/experiencer.

Perhaps your reasoning applies to you as much as anyone else. For example, perhaps your attitude toward the ETH is based on your own particular worldview, one that has been formed by your own ethnocentric filters and limitations. This is evident in questions like: "Does it make sense to collect they many soil and stool samples from us ... ?" That observation doesn't make sense to you because your filters have converted the behavior to nonsense through your particular filters. A more objective view would suggest that whatever is going on in the mind of the aliens could be radically different than what you think. Or other people ( like myself ) who make an effort to look for ways to explain the nonsense might see reasons why repeated sampling could make sense rather than dismissing it.

 

[marduk]

So in response to all its one thing for us to go visit neighboring planets but interstellar travel is another event altogether. Only Eric Wargo's Anti-ETH ETH theory makes sense to me. That yes aliens exist elsewhere but would they risk the value of their long lives to go and collect soil and stool samples from other planets when you obviously have the technology to collect all the info you need without risking life and limb to the randomness of space? That to me is the magical component. And then in his theory small bits of alien tech may well be responsible for the Vallee control system and a series of ongoing psych experiments on the species of this planet. But infinite repeat visitation on the scale reported. ...does that make any sense at all? You might as well go with Stan's notion of our planet as a PhD graduate zone for young aliens - also ludicrous the way we see ET through our eyes all the time. Just because the possibility of life elsewhere makes sense it doesn't mean that travel to the Hotspot called earth on the order reported to date makes any realistic sense at all. And the supernatural effect on contactees should give us some insight into just how magical a concept it is.

With all due respect burnt I think you're making a category error here.

To say the ETH doesn't make sense because proposed occupant behaviour doesn't align with expectations is not logical.

Behaviour is not in the realm of physics.

Physics says that you can get there from here, as long as you're patient or have harnessed sufficient energy to become relativistic.

Behaviour is a whole different thing.

If humans found intelligent primitive life on Zeta Reticuli as part of a scientific expedition they'd act differently than a military incursion or a evangelical religious colonization.

And that's just humans.

Imagine if ants developed spacefaring tech and went to Zeta Reticuli. Or herbivor pack animals. Or slime mould. Or a post biological civilization.

Wringing hands about behavioural psychology about a civilization we've never met in a civilized fashion is kinda pointless.

 

[technomage]

Perhaps the purpose of collecting multiple soil samples is to force us to have this discussion about their odd behavior and then to analyze our responses (i.e. UFOs are here to make us think)?

 

[marduk]

Perhaps the purpose of collecting multiple soil samples is to force us to have this discussion about their odd behavior and then to analyze our responses (i.e. UFOs are here to make us think)?

Given the available data, which is near zero, there is little value in speculating behaviour motivations.

 

[technomage]

Given the available data, which is near zero, there is little value in speculating behaviour motivations.

The value is that it attempts to answer Burnt State's question on the aliens' absurd behavior. Plus, a lot of what we do is speculation, which has its own rewards.

 

[marduk]

The value is that it attempts to answer Burnt State's question on the aliens' absurd behavior. Plus, a lot of what we do is speculation, which has its own rewards.

I have an alternate solution.

Let's go there, be seen by lone individuals of their population digging in their dirt, and see what happens. Maybe throw in a few new age comments about environmental issues, and then have sex with them.

Who knows? Maybe that's a polite way to say hello to them.

 

[Burnt State]

Perhaps your reasoning applies to you as much as anyone else. For example, perhaps your attitude toward the ETH is based on your own particular worldview, one that has been formed by your own ethnocentric filters and limitations. This is evident in questions like: "Does it make sense to collect they many soil and stool samples from us ... ?" That observation doesn't make sense to you because your filters have converted the behavior to nonsense through your particular filters. A more objective view would suggest that whatever is going on in the mind of the aliens could be radically different than what you think. Or other people ( like myself ) who make an effort to look for ways to explain the nonsense might see reasons why repeated sampling could make sense rather than dismissing it.

No, I'm coming at it from two repeated themes of mine: 1) everything that the aliens do exists only in the minds of witnesses and so how do we verify anything that they do? Should we not also talk about the logic of dismembering humans on spaceships and then reattaching their limbs or trading pancakes for water 2) if we are going assume the veracity of witness claims then we must address the frequency of reports which seems utterly surreal at best - just how many soil samples need collecting, how many humans do you need to have sex with and how many limbs need reattaching? Did they not get it right the first 50 or 100 times?

So for me there is breakdown about ET that does not make sense when we start to tabulate the nature of claims and the sheer volume of it all. That in of itself appears quite magical that they persist so diligently in their labours.

Maybe they get extra airmiles for their efforts. I dunno.

 

[Burnt State]

With all due respect burnt I think you're making a category error here.

To say the ETH doesn't make sense because proposed occupant behaviour doesn't align with expectations is not logical.

Behaviour is not in the realm of physics.

Physics says that you can get there from here, as long as you're patient or have harnessed sufficient energy to become relativistic.

Behaviour is a whole different thing.

If humans found intelligent primitive life on Zeta Reticuli as part of a scientific expedition they'd act differently than a military incursion or a evangelical religious colonization.

And that's just humans.

Imagine if ants developed spacefaring tech and went to Zeta Reticuli. Or herbivor pack animals. Or slime mould. Or a post biological civilization.

Wringing hands about behavioural psychology about a civilization we've never met in a civilized fashion is kinda pointless.

Ok but both their visitation and their actions are premised upon near zero confirmation of witness reports. So whether or not it's possible is mostly irrelevant. We are still starting this discussion based primarily on the enormous volume of witness reports and we must deal with the totality of the reports and not skim pieces of it only.

Yes, I admit lights in the sky and ships in the sky suggest an alien intelligence ar work - I've seen as much but I also debate the origin of such a stimulus.

And I agree with you, how can we possibly fathom the mind of the alien? So why should the things they do here resemble human data collection? Something about the whole of ufology smells off when you start to add up the entirety of what we have called data so far. Just where exactly does this phenomenon's narrative begin and end? And if we can't identify that then just what exactly is it we are talking about - the lights in the sky? The flying saucers? The hubrids?

 

[Burnt State]

I have an alternate solution.

Let's go there, be seen by lone individuals of their population digging in their dirt, and see what happens. Maybe throw in a few new age comments about environmental issues, and then have sex with them.

Who knows? Maybe that's a polite way to say hello to them.

...or it's one large psychological experiment.

 

[Randall]

No, I'm coming at it from two repeated themes of mine: 1) everything that the aliens do exists only in the minds of witnesses and so how do we verify anything that they do? Should we not also talk about the logic of dismembering humans on spaceships and then reattaching their limbs or trading pancakes for water 2) if we are going assume the veracity of witness claims then we must address the frequency of reports which seems utterly surreal at best - just how many soil samples need collecting, how many humans do you need to have sex with and how many limbs need reattaching? Did they not get it right the first 50 or 100 times?

So for me there is breakdown about ET that does not make sense when we start to tabulate the nature of claims and the sheer volume of it all. That in of itself appears quite magical that they persist so diligently in their labours.

Maybe they get extra airmiles for their efforts. I dunno.

You seem to have missed the point. It can equally be said that the very idea that you want the aliens to "make sense" to you means that you are projecting expectations that "exist only in your mind" onto them.

Also let's not forget that most reports aren't worthy of being believed, not necessarily because they are fabrications ( although they could be ), but because there isn't enough information to fully evaluate them. Therefore cherry picking nonsensical cases that in all probability are fabrications or exaggerations and then using them to paint the whole phenomena with that brush isn't an accurate way of looking at the phenomena. It's more like a typical skeptical tactic that I'd expect to see over on one of the Skeptic's boards: "These cases are nonsense therefore the whole thing is nonsense."

 

[marduk]

No, I'm coming at it from two repeated themes of mine: 1) everything that the aliens do exists only in the minds of witnesses and so how do we verify anything that they do? Should we not also talk about the logic of dismembering humans on spaceships and then reattaching their limbs or trading pancakes for water 2) if we are going assume the veracity of witness claims then we must address the frequency of reports which seems utterly surreal at best - just how many soil samples need collecting, how many humans do you need to have sex with and how many limbs need reattaching? Did they not get it right the first 50 or 100 times?

So for me there is breakdown about ET that does not make sense when we start to tabulate the nature of claims and the sheer volume of it all. That in of itself appears quite magical that they persist so diligently in their labours.

Maybe they get extra airmiles for their efforts. I dunno.

I can't speak for you, but I needed to have sex with a whole lotta humans before I was ready to stick with just one.

 

[marduk]

...or it's one large psychological experiment.

What if they don't have psychology as we know it?

It might not even occur to an intelligent anthill to think that way.

 

[Burnt State]

You seem to have missed the point. It can equally be said that the very idea that you want the aliens to "make sense" to you means that you are projecting expectations that "exist only in your mind" onto them.

Also let's not forget that most reports aren't worthy of being believed, not necessarily because they are fabrications ( although they could be ), but because there isn't enough information to fully evaluate them. Therefore cherry picking nonsensical cases that in all probability are fabrications or exaggerations and then using them to paint the whole phenomena with that brush isn't an accurate way of looking at the phenomena. It's more like a typical skeptical tactic that I'd expect to see over on one of the Skeptic's boards: "These cases are nonsense therefore the whole thing is nonsense."

Nope, I said the exact opposite. We need to look at the whole of reports and make a determination of where exactly the narrative of ufological study should begin or end. And I never said it was nonsense because it's not. Now you are putting words in my mouth and comparing me to those repressed hooligans. I'm saying we need to be doubtful about the data and find some point of reason to properly begin the discussion. I don't think it begins with the reports so much as who is giving them. And yet all this talk of ETH stems entirely from the reports. So are you only going to do as the skeptic or believer dirs and select only the cases that fit your argument or deal with all of it? And if so, where is the starting point for that discussion?