April 25th, O'Brien, Mott, Greenfield, Clelland, Bosley

[Gene Steinberg]

To be perfectly blunt: I am sick and tired of posters who demonstrate they can't read or hear, and therefore continue to make false claims about what I said, what Chris said, or what others on these boards have said. I have already excluded two members from posting because of their inability to read. I don't want to add to those numbers.

 

[dad2059]

My, the verbiage has certainly changed somewhat since I was here last, but I digress.

The guest intrigued me in that he mentioned areas of the Earth that are still very active electromagnetically and that we could be experiencing some sort of parallel universe 'overlay' and that any very ancient species would know how to traverse these overlays.

Good show all in all and the first one I listened to in quite a while!

 

[Will Penguin]

I said several times on the segment that I have a serious problem with the subject of abductions—especially the way they are "investigated" by those such as Jacobs.

I want to preface this by saying I am a big fan of your work and have a whole lot of respect for you (and actually I'm reading "Mysterious Valley" right now and really fascinated)... but... I do have to say I was kind of troubled by some of your comments at the start of the podcast and also in this forum regarding the Emma/Jacobs stuff.

If you don't wish to take the time to look in to the specifics of the case, that's your right, but to me it seems a little mean-spirited and to do so and then dismiss Emma's issues as "drama".

For whatever it worth coming from some random dude on the internet, I have made some effort to follow the details of the whole Jacobs/Emma deal, and it appears to me, best as I can tell, that Emma is someone who has had her trust abused and been treated meanly and unfairly. I can't really blame her for not "just moving on", especially when it seems other people are potentially being harmed in the same way.

I hope you'll understand where I'm coming from; I don't have dog in this fight, it's just that any time I've heard you speak you seem really fair, smart, and compassionate, and some of you your comments in this case bothered me because they seemed anything but.

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------

Oh and by the way, aside from that, I loved the episode! Nice work, guys. Especially Mr. Bosley's bit at the end about Roswell/cryptoterrestrials, I'd LOVE to hear more on that.

 

[Hoffmeister]

I. Oh what some people will do to sell a book or two and be a part-time host on a podcast.

That was pointless tbh
Chris hasn't made any personal attacks on Emma, he has just put forward his opinions, and he is rightfully allowed to do so.
Following Emma round and attacking anyone who questions her side of the story doesnt exactly do anything to improve her credibility. Thats what i don't get about this topic, people could get they're point across with so much more effectiveness if they just kept their cool. If you really believe that Jacobs is acting immorally, come up with some evidence..... present it.... and let the EVIDENCE do the talking. On the other hand, if you wanna talk trash, go join pro wrestling...

Chris and I are having obvious disagreements with each others theories on this thread, but you don't see us throwing mud at each other like children

---------- Post added at 06:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

The reason that I have persisted in making this issue public is because Dr. Jacobs has harmed innocent people, including myself, and it is important that this is known about as a matter of public interest.

Thats fine, but like I said, you could do it in a lot more productive fashion without chasing him round to the ends of the earth about it. Just start up a small website presenting your evidence (i know you already have a website) and then leave it at that. maybe drop by to a forum every now and then and post the link.
If everything you say about Jacobs is true, then yes its immoral, but there's a lot worse sh*t going on in the world than cowboy hypnotists.... if you really wanna make a difference to the world, go do some charity work. And even if everything you say about him is true, he isnt the only one to blame, the medical professional and even yourself should bear some responsibility. You may say that you were unstable at the time, and therefore vulnerable... but the same could be said about Jacobs

Personally, i don't know what the truth of the matter is, and I dont much care either. People should stop looking at the past and think of ways to improve their lives, and this subject in the future, other than by dwelling on the past.

 

[Will Penguin]

You may say that you were unstable at the time, and therefore vulnerable... but the same could be said about Jacobs

Sorry, I think that's unfair.

When somebody like Emma goes to a therapist seeking help because she's having disturbing, unexplained experiences, and that therapist directs them to somebody purporting to be an expert in the field qualified to help people who feel they're having such experiences... you don't have parity there. By all accounts Emma was a person seeking help who entrusted herself (and her mind) to Jacobs, and he's absolutely beholden to a higher standard.

If Jacobs is "unstable and vulnerable", he shouldn't be implanting hypnotic suggestions about multiple personalities and instant messages from "hybrids" over the phone into the minds of troubled people seeking help.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Sorry, I think that's unfair.

When somebody like Emma goes to a therapist seeking help because she's having disturbing, unexplained experiences, and that therapist directs them to somebody purporting to be an expert in the field qualified to help people who feel they're having such experiences... you don't have parity there. By all accounts Emma was a person seeking help who entrusted herself (and her mind) to Jacobs, and he's absolutely beholden to a higher standard.

If Jacobs is "unstable and vulnerable", he shouldn't be implanting hypnotic suggestions about multiple personalities and instant messages from "hybrids" over the phone into the minds of troubled people seeking help.

We don't know what he is implanting or even if he is implanting anything. The tapes are excerpts, and you have no way to know what was actually cut and moved. Editing audio is no more difficult than employing the same cut, copy and paste abilities tens of millions of personal computer users have mastered.

In addition, Jacobs denies most of Emma's claims and asserts the recordings were manipulated to make him look bad.

As far as I'm concerned, and I've said this before here, it's he said/she said, with blame clearly on both sides.

 

[trainedobserver]

Speaking of recordings ... it seems like this subject has become a broken record of sorts.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Speaking of recordings ... it seems like this subject has become a broken record of sorts.

You noticed.

 

[Hoffmeister]

Sorry, I think that's unfair.

When somebody like Emma goes to a therapist seeking help because she's having disturbing, unexplained experiences, and that therapist directs them to somebody purporting to be an expert in the field qualified to help people who feel they're having such experiences... you don't have parity there. By all accounts Emma was a person seeking help who entrusted herself (and her mind) to Jacobs, and he's absolutely beholden to a higher standard.

If Jacobs is "unstable and vulnerable", he shouldn't be implanting hypnotic suggestions about multiple personalities and instant messages from "hybrids" over the phone into the minds of troubled people seeking help.

Yes and as I have stated earlier, I believe the therapist that referred her to Jacobs is the REAL one to blame here and he/she should lose their license immediately. I dont know Jacobs, and I don't pretend to, but who's to say he isn't in need of a therapist himself? Who's to say that he hasn't been equally as wronged by the therapist who put him in this situation with Emma?
Again, I state I am not passing judgement on Emma or Jacobs here, just highlighting the point that it is the Therapist who should be the one who has your anger directed at him/her....

 

[Will Penguin]

We don't know what he is implanting or even if he is implanting anything. The tapes are excerpts, and you have no way to know what was actually cut and moved. Editing audio is no more difficult than employing the same cut, copy and paste abilities tens of millions of personal computer users have mastered.

In addition, Jacobs denies most of Emma's claims and asserts the recordings were manipulated to make him look bad.

As far as I'm concerned, and I've said this before here, it's he said/she said, with blame clearly on both sides.

With audio such as that in question, my non-expert opinion (and that of others who know more about audio than me) is that such tampering (other than removal of people's names and personal information which Emma admits to doing), would definitely leave tell-tale signs, signs which are not apparent with this audio.

Just the fact alone that Jacobs, who is not a therapist, was practicing hypnosis over the phone with a troubled person seeking help predisposes me to a VERY negative conclusion as far as he's concerned.

Sorry to be another person that keeps dredging this up; I know you're sick of it, but I do hope I've given some food for thought.

Anyhow like I said, I loved the episode. I wish Mac could have heard it.

Maybe he did, actually.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

With audio such as that in question, my non-expert opinion (and that of others who know more about audio than me) is that such tampering (other than removal of people's names and personal information which Emma admits to doing), would definitely leave tell-tale signs, signs which are not apparent with this audio.

Just the fact alone that Jacobs, who is not a therapist, was practicing hypnosis over the phone with a troubled person seeking help predisposes me to a VERY negative conclusion as far as he's concerned.

Nonsense. These recordings have a medium to high background noise quotient, and it would be a trivial matter to remove whole sentences or phrases and even move statements from one place to another. Everything there is an excerpt, so context can be readily altered. As I said, it doesn't take a lot of skill to do this and most of you would be utterly unable to detect the edit points. Moving words, yes, maybe, but not when you have long pauses as you do here.

As to telephone hypnosis, Jacobs claims this is actually fairly standard procedure, but usually after the patient and the therapist (which Jacobs is, admittedly, not) have met in person.

Regardless, I do not feel comfortable with such a practice, even if professional therapists manage the session.

I would also question the competence of the therapist who referred Emma to Jacobs. That person has a lot to answer for. Even assuming the best of intentions, aren't there UFO investigative organizations in her own country?

 

[Hoffmeister]

Anyway, going back to my original point in this thread:
If anyone listened to Redfern on Eckers show this morning, he went on there to discuss opposing theories to the ETH just like this weeks paracast. But the difference for me was that he didnt side heavily with any argument, he just presented the interesting facts about each, and said 'I don't know'.
This for me is the best way of thinking, and this for me is why Redfern rocks!
If everyone could be like that, there would be a lot fewer arguments....

 

[Will Penguin]

Nonsense. These recordings have a medium to high background noise quotient, and it would be a trivial matter to remove whole sentences or phrases and even move statements from one place to another. Everything there is an excerpt, so context can be readily altered. As I said, it doesn't take a lot of skill to do this and most of you would be utterly unable to detect the edit points. Moving words, yes, maybe, but not when you have long pauses as you do here.

The background noise is partly why I feel it wasn't tampered with. Splicing noise is still splicing, and should leave signs in the noise itself. (Unless you do some kind of crazy cross fading I guess)

For what it's worth I'm coming at this as a musician who has a lot of experience with digital recording in the studio trying to do things likecut and paste vocals or music around and it really does take expertise to do it without it sounding weird.

As to telephone hypnosis, Jacobs claims this is actually fairly standard procedure, but usually after the patient and the therapist (which Jacobs is, admittedly, not) have met in person.

Regardless, I do not feel comfortable with such a practice, even if professional therapists manage the session.

I would also question the competence of the therapist who referred Emma to Jacobs. That person has a lot to answer for.

I cannot disagree with any of that, Gene.

Anyhow... do you think Walter Bosley might do a solo appearance? I think it would be fascinating!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The background noise is partly why I feel it wasn't tampered with. Splicing noise is still splicing, and should leave signs in the noise itself. (Unless you do some kind of crazy cross fading I guess)

Nope. No splicing noise unless it's done in a very clumsy fashion. If the noise floor is consistent between sentences, you won't notice it. Let me give you some homework: Take the last episode of The Paracast and log the edit points as to the timeline and post them.

 

[Will Penguin]

Take the last episode of The Paracast and log the edit points as to the timeline and post them.

That would be hard, as the Paracast doesn't have much noise at all, because the Paracast is such a great, clear-sounding, professionally-done show. (See what I did there? )

Anyhow, I know you know broadcast editing, so I will take your informed opinion into account. (And let Emma/Jacobs drop for now; I've said my piece)

 

[brownie]

Go re-listen to my comments before you spew your over-the-top, emotional rage. I don't know who you are, but you obviously could use some help yourself. I said several times on the segment that I have a serious problem with the subject of abductions—especially the way they are "investigated" by those such as Jacobs. I am no fan, supporter or apologist for Jacobs and all the other fear-mongerers. Quite the opposite: They are a major part of the problem—not a part of any solution to the abduction mystery. Go find another target for your slings and arrows, I ain't playing your game. Oh, and please attempt to be a bit more civil, this board will not tolerate personal attacks.

There you go again, with ad hominem attacks.

BTW, I'm in receipt of your official warning email to me. That's one way to prevent discussion of a podcast.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You have it backwards. You are the attacker, and your reasons are clearly bogus. Stay in line or be blocked from the forums. Are we clear?

 

[Hoffmeister]

There you go again, with ad hominem attacks.

BTW, I'm in receipt of your official warning email to me. That's one way to prevent discussion of a podcast.

I really feel like you've helped Emma's cause with this post, good on you, she's forever in your debt

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I really feel like you've helped Emma's cause with this post, good on you, she's forever in your debt

So lying about what people say in these forums or on the show is a good thing then?

 

[aNorthernSoul]

... but I won't apologize for choosing not to become embroiled in your conflict as I sense "a hint" of obsession. My advise to you is: do what you need to do to resolve your issues and then move on with your life.

See? Right there... you're being a condescending dick. For example, if you, or even a loved one, got raped, would you not put a lot of time and effort into seeking justice? To some idiot who knew nothing of the case yet felt OK to talk shit, I'm sure you'd come off as having "a hint of obsession." God, this isn't even about UFO's in reality...

I don't know exactly who is right or wrong, but I do know that you are being incredibly inhuman in your approach on the case.

---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------

To be perfectly blunt: I am sick and tired of posters who demonstrate they can't read or hear, and therefore continue to make false claims about what I said, what Chris said, or what others on these boards have said. I have already excluded two members from posting because of their inability to read. I don't want to add to those numbers.

Who got what wrong? Who has read through the evidence presented and who has not? Explain.... no more vague correspondence or "so and so told me" and other such stuff. Say exactly what you think providing examples and names or leave the topic alone. Clearly, you guys haven't done the research, so why are you talking about it and attacking a potential victim?