April 4th show - Hopkins, Randle & Jacobs

[redheadnation]

You need to explain your opinions on the definition of collecting oral history to the academic authorities at universities in the United States and to the AMA, because as I understand it they profoundly differ from your view on this issue. Go persuade them, then come back here and let us know how you got on, OK?

If you had read the published literature on the abduction phenomenon including the book of essays published by Kansas University Press and the vast tome published by MIT on the proceedings of the conference on alien abduction at MIT chaired by John Mack, you would know that many of the abduction accounts involve no hypnosis, but those which have utilised this very useful tool to aid memory recovery reveal basically the same narrative as those reported by people with full conscious memory - and there's quite a lot of those.

You seem almost hysterical about hypnosis. Do you have any personal experience of it - or indeed know anything at all about it? Do you have any acquaintance with all the other evidence, such as consistent patterns of bodily scarring which dermatologists ID as a kind of biopsy cut (mine have been biopsied and I have the dermatologist's report which makes for interesting reading)? Have you personally researched the now quite large numbers of apparent implants revealed by radiological scans, and have you been in contact with, or even studied at a distance, the work of Dr. Roger Leir and others in removing and analysing them? In fact, do you know anything at all about the vast range of hard evidence at the heart of this issue? Did you know as an example, that the 22nd Annual Convention of the Association of Psychological Science meeting in Boston on 27-30 May will formally discuss the alien abduction phenomenon and is officially starting to take the issue very seriously - and moreover has invited Budd Hopkins onto its expert panel?

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------



On a point of accuracy, it is abductees who have claimed this - including EW. DJ has never "claimed" any such thing. What he does is report that people are claiming these things (and I think you mean "there" not "their").

Hypnosis is not the issue where the abduction phenomenon is concerned - to rant on about it is just a distraction. Something real is happening, and if Dave Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, Budd Hopkins, Yvonne Smith, John Carpenter, Leo Sprinkle and all the other researchers who have investigated and uncovered this apparent reality had never gotten involved or never even been born, it would still be happening and people would still be having these experiences. You should consider looking into it.

Hypnosis is the issue I have. When a physician of any practice what's an oral history they don't use hyponisis. When an RN takes a history of a patient they never use hypnosis. I have no problem with anyone collecting evidence or oral history as long as it is not obtainted by hypnosis. Dr Jacobs is not a medical dr. he should not be performing hypnosis. This is a dangerous practice. So call me "hysterical" if you wish as I am quite vocal about what I know is a danger to patients or other humans. I happen to be an RN for 27 years so I do have a great deal of understanding about what is considered an oral history. I also know what can be done with hypnosis as a clinician.

Regarding the issue of abduction. I don't know if that is a real phenomenon as I don't have evidence that it is. But I don't exclude it either. I just don't have a conclusion. I would never say you were not abducted. I don't have proof you have been or proof you have not been. I do have an issue if your memories of the event was obtained via hypnosis.

I know there are paranormal activities, UFO's and some really strange events out there. I have experienced a few paranormal events myself. I can't explain it or say what it is as I don't know. I'm not going to say that you were not abducted or by whom. For all we know it could be our own government. I have great issue with Dr Jacobs saying there are hybreds when he has no proof except for oral histories that include hypnosis. Any information given under hypnosis should be excluded from any research as it is not reliable. Data should be collected in a very scientific way and this is not being done in the Paranormal Community.

Dermatological evidence. Yes I have read a great deal about this. I even had several patients that had blue or red fibers coming out of their skin. Can I come to the conclusion that is is an implant from aliens? No. Is that a possibility...yes. Has the data and the items in people been researched and analyised in a clinical research way? Absolutely not. This is another issue I would like to see resolved. No one is going to take any of this seriously until research is done properly.

Finally, as for my incorrect usage of there-their. We all make mistakes and your attempt to belittle me will not work. 'cus you misspelled utilzed........ darling.

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:30 PM ----------

This is wrong. I took oral research methodology in grad school (history), and am well versed in interviewing techniques from my time at law school as well. Unless you can show me otherwise, I am certain that there is no history program in either Canada or the United States that sanctions the use of hypnosis as part of its oral research programs.

Thank you Thank you Thank you!

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 PM ----------

Yes we do, but how would random DNA be catalogued other than by map coordinates?

I don't know but if they are so much more advanced then us I'm sure they could see us and beam down and snatch up the DNA evidence

 

[ArchieBedford]

This is wrong. I took oral research methodology in grad school (history), and am well versed in interviewing techniques from my time at law school as well. Unless you can show me otherwise, I am certain that there is no history program in either Canada or the United States that sanctions the use of hypnosis as part of its oral research programs.

That's not what I said, Paul. "Sanctioning hypnosis" is not the issue. The issue is that the two books which seem to cause such a problem for a minority of posters on these forums - "Secret Life" and "The Threat" (the only two where hypnosis was used in SOME circumstances with SOME of the subjects to aid SOME memory recovery) have been classified as "collecting oral history" by the University Academic Review Board, and have been credited to DJ in the same way all publications are credited to professorial teaching staff. Of course the books were read and studied prior to the granting of credits, and apparently no objections were raised.

This is not the same as "officially sanctioning hypnosis for use in memory recovery." It's just that overall, the content and methodology were judged as fulfilling the academic criteria set down for "collecting oral history" and that is how they have been classified by the University authorities at Temple prior to being approved for academic credit.

 

[redheadnation]

That's not what I said, Paul. "Sanctioning hypnosis" is not the issue. The issue is that the two books which seem to cause such a problem for a minority of posters on these forums - "Secret Life" and "The Threat" (the only two where hypnosis was used in SOME circumstances with SOME of the subjects to aid SOME memory recovery) have been classified as "collecting oral history" by the University Academic Review Board, and have been credited to DJ in the same way all publications are credited to professorial teaching staff. Of course the books were read and studied prior to the granting of credits, and apparently no objections were raised.

This is not the same as "officially sanctioning hypnosis for use in memory recovery." It's just that overall, the content and methodology were judged as fulfilling the academic criteria set down for "collecting oral history" and that is how they have been classified by the University authorities at Temple prior to being approved for academic credit.

Just because were approve or sanctioned by the University authorities for credit DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. Collecting oral history using hypnosis is wrong and should not be approve or used. My issue is that Dr Jacobs uses hypnosis a great deal. For Emma he used it for 3 years over the phone with her. That is absurd, irresponsible and dangersous. So he does not use hypnosis "some of the time" he uses it a great deal. It is a dangerous practice and should not be performed or utilized in research.

 

[ArchieBedford]

Regarding the issue of abduction. I don't know if that is a real phenomenon as I don't have evidence that it is. But I don't exclude it either. I just don't have a conclusion.

You can't know. No-one can, for sure. What you have is a large body of evidence, which adds up to something. Some is anecdotal, and the only reason it's taken seriously is because of its common narrative across a wide range of reporters around the world, over several decades, many thousands of them, and the reports basically the same, with minor variations. Then there is all the corroborating stuff: scoop mark scars, straight line scars, real conscious memories, multi-person events, third parties witnessing UFOs coincident with the abduction, broken tree branches, large round patches of burned and baked earth following reported events, implants showing up under X-ray and many removed, people reported as being returned inexplicably to different locations sometimes wearing someone else's clothes or with personal items missing. It goes on and on, and reports do not diminish in quantity or in nature with the passing years.

Budd Hopkins many years ago challenged Carl Sagan on national TV: "Carl, you've agreed this is an extraordinary phenomenon backed up by a lot of evidence. Don't you agree an extraordinary phenomenon demands an extraordinary investigation?" Well, no kind of official investigation into all this has been forthcoming, though more and more people are taking it seriously. A conspiracy theorist might be forgiven for thinking some kind of cover-up is being perpetrated.

Don't blame the messengers. They are not creating the phenomenon, but reporting it. It exists. What it is, we just don't know.

What is the medical diagnosis of the "blue and red fibers coming out of the skin"? How common is this? Is the cause known?

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------

Just because were approve or sanctioned by the University authorities for credit DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. Collecting oral history using hypnosis is wrong and should not be approve or used. My issue is that Dr Jacobs uses hypnosis a great deal. For Emma he used it for 3 years over the phone with her. That is absurd, irresponsible and dangersous. So he does not use hypnosis "some of the time" he uses it a great deal. It is a dangerous practice and should not be performed or utilized in research.

Your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Others are entitled to disagree.

 

[redheadnation]

You can't know. No-one can, for sure. What you have is a large body of evidence, which adds up to something. Some is anecdotal, and the only reason it's taken seriously is because of its common narrative across a wide range of reporters around the world, over several decades, many thousands of them, and the reports basically the same, with minor variations. Then there is all the corroborating stuff: scoop mark scars, straight line scars, real conscious memories, multi-person events, third parties witnessing UFOs coincident with the abduction, broken tree branches, large round patches of burned and baked earth following reported events, implants showing up under X-ray and many removed, people reported as being returned inexplicably to different locations sometimes wearing someone else's clothes or with personal items missing. It goes on and on, and reports do not diminish in quantity or in nature with the passing years.

Budd Hopkins many years ago challenged Carl Sagan on national TV: "Carl, you've agreed this is an extraordinary phenomenon backed up by a lot of evidence. Don't you agree an extraordinary phenomenon demands an extraordinary investigation?" Well, no kind of official investigation into all this has been forthcoming, though more and more people are taking it seriously. A conspiracy theorist might be forgiven for thinking some kind of cover-up is being perpetrated.

Don't blame the messengers. They are not creating the phenomenon, but reporting it. It exists. What it is, we just don't know.

What is the medical diagnosis of the "blue and red fibers coming out of the skin"? How common is this? Is the cause known?

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------




Your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Others are entitled to disagree.

I seen a great deal of the blue and red fibers coming out of the skin. Cause? Never got a diagnosis for these folks.

I'm not blaming the messengers I know something exists but we can't assume......and we all know what that means...........the cause. We just don't know.

Evidence needs to be collected and reported the correct way across the board.....or across the world. It needs a centeral data base to be stored and analyzed. There needs to be standards established..........such as no hypnosis. Just like the medical community has standards of practice that we all follow. That is what has caused such an improvement in health care, statistics and the ablility to look at trends to be researched.

I don't have the answers because I know that this take time and money. But I know this is the solution to getting to the bottom of this.........we of course can't depend on the government so it has to be done by us.

 

[paraschtick]

Hypnosis is not the issue where the abduction phenomenon is concerned - to rant on about it is just a distraction. Something real is happening, and if Dave Jacobs, John Mack, Ray Fowler, Budd Hopkins, Yvonne Smith, John Carpenter, Leo Sprinkle and all the other researchers who have investigated and uncovered this apparent reality had never gotten involved or never even been born, it would still be happening and people would still be having these experiences. You should consider looking into it.

Hypnosis is very much the issue. I have no idea how you can sit there and say that. If someone is having some sort of experience(s), and then the hypnotist for instance asks leading questions, and puts into the mind of the researcher's "patient that they have been abducted by aliens even though (apart from the hypnosis) there really isn't any evidence to show for this ... then ... that very much calls into question not only hypnosis itself but the very integrity of the researcher.

So I do not believe that you can just throw out any criticism of hypnosis. Thats just incredibly silly and in my opinion unconsionable behaviour.

The above may have happened (and in my opinion DID happen) with Emma Woods. Something real may in fact be happening but Dr Jacobs has possibly self-sabotaged a lot of feasibly useable data ... although in fact he hasn't kept any other data except the hypnotic regressions by the look of it. A proper researcher of any kind would have noted down anything and everything he/she came across. Including things like temperature, chemical composition of the blood etc ... oh yeah ... just like Emma Woods did.

And as for your other comments previously,

"The truth is, there is no "case to answer." Nothing. It's just a pile of BS, supported by doctored audio tapes, fraudulent claims and lies. The minimum of genuine investigative rigor of the "claims" by these authorities has revealed her claims to be bogus."

What utter nonsense. Your hubris and callousness floors me. I truly am speechless with the drivel you are spouting, and the attacks at this woman who through no fault of her own has had an incompetent, illegal hypnotherapist poking around in her brain and planting false memories/ideas/notions of multiple personality disorder.

Prove to me that the "audio tapes" have been doctored to the extent you imply. Emma herself admits to having edited parts of the audio to leave out peoples names etc in an extremely considerate fashion. I myself have looked at the audio files in a wave editor, and have found no doctoring of which you speak.

And why hasn't she got anywhere with her claims. Thats really easy. Temple University doesn't want to show that it is embarrassed with Dr Jacobs work, and his incompetent and frankly quite possibly abusive research so they're trying to remain silent whilst Emma is doing what a reasonably normal person would do in her position ie try to get the message out to as many people as she can.

And what pray tell, has Dr Jacobs done to prove his side of the case?? Defame Emma Woods, appear on the Paracast and ... ... and ... and ... well ... nothing else. He doesn't even want to let us hear his own audio tapes. If he actually has any at all. He may have of course buggered them up, or lost them ... or maybe even he forgot to press the record button in the first place.

 

[dyingsun]

Hypnosis is very much the issue. I have no idea how you can sit there and say that. If someone is having some sort of experience(s), and then the hypnotist for instance asks leading questions, and puts into the mind of the researcher's "patient that they have been abducted by aliens even though (apart from the hypnosis) there really isn't any evidence to show for this ... then ... that very much calls into question not only hypnosis itself but the very integrity of the researcher.

So I do not believe that you can just throw out any criticism of hypnosis. Thats just incredibly silly and in my opinion unconsionable behaviour.

The above may have happened (and in my opinion DID happen) with Emma Woods. Something real may in fact be happening but Dr Jacobs has possibly self-sabotaged a lot of feasibly useable data ... although in fact he hasn't kept any other data except the hypnotic regressions by the look of it. A proper researcher of any kind would have noted down anything and everything he/she came across. Including things like temperature, chemical composition of the blood etc ... oh yeah ... just like Emma Woods did.

And as for your other comments previously,

"The truth is, there is no "case to answer." Nothing. It's just a pile of BS, supported by doctored audio tapes, fraudulent claims and lies. The minimum of genuine investigative rigor of the "claims" by these authorities has revealed her claims to be bogus."

What utter nonsense. Your hubris and callousness floors me. I truly am speechless with the drivel you are spouting, and the attacks at this woman who through no fault of her own has had an incompetent, illegal hypnotherapist poking around in her brain and planting false memories/ideas/notions of multiple personality disorder.

Prove to me that the "audio tapes" have been doctored to the extent you imply. Emma herself admits to having edited parts of the audio to leave out peoples names etc in an extremely considerate fashion. I myself have looked at the audio files in a wave editor, and have found no doctoring of which you speak.

And why hasn't she got anywhere with her claims. Thats really easy. Temple University doesn't want to show that it is embarrassed with Dr Jacobs work, and his incompetent and frankly quite possibly abusive research so they're trying to remain silent whilst Emma is doing what a reasonably normal person would do in her position ie try to get the message out to as many people as she can.

And what pray tell, has Dr Jacobs done to prove his side of the case?? Defame Emma Woods, appear on the Paracast and ... ... and ... and ... well ... nothing else. He doesn't even want to let us hear his own audio tapes. If he actually has any at all. He may have of course buggered them up, or lost them ... or maybe even he forgot to press the record button in the first place.

Some people seem to crave the limelight.Let them hang themselves.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Yeah, something is happening for sure... but we want to make sure that the data we are collecting is accurate. After all, we don't want another global warming situation.... or do they?


The more I look at this the more I can't help but think that this Jacobs character has lost the plot and is now using typical debunker type arguments to muddy the waters of what seems to be pretty accurate evidence presented by "Emma."

 

[paraschtick]

Some people seem to crave the limelight.Let them hang themselves.

Well if you give them enough rope ... and Dr Jacobs has had 30 odd years to gather enough ropage together ...

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

The whole thing is just sad mess.

 

[redheadnation]

Hypnosis is very much the issue. I have no idea how you can sit there and say that. If someone is having some sort of experience(s), and then the hypnotist for instance asks leading questions, and puts into the mind of the researcher's "patient that they have been abducted by aliens even though (apart from the hypnosis) there really isn't any evidence to show for this ... then ... that very much calls into question not only hypnosis itself but the very integrity of the researcher.

So I do not believe that you can just throw out any criticism of hypnosis. Thats just incredibly silly and in my opinion unconsionable behaviour.

The above may have happened (and in my opinion DID happen) with Emma Woods. Something real may in fact be happening but Dr Jacobs has possibly self-sabotaged a lot of feasibly useable data ... although in fact he hasn't kept any other data except the hypnotic regressions by the look of it. A proper researcher of any kind would have noted down anything and everything he/she came across. Including things like temperature, chemical composition of the blood etc ... oh yeah ... just like Emma Woods did.

And as for your other comments previously,

"The truth is, there is no "case to answer." Nothing. It's just a pile of BS, supported by doctored audio tapes, fraudulent claims and lies. The minimum of genuine investigative rigor of the "claims" by these authorities has revealed her claims to be bogus."

What utter nonsense. Your hubris and callousness floors me. I truly am speechless with the drivel you are spouting, and the attacks at this woman who through no fault of her own has had an incompetent, illegal hypnotherapist poking around in her brain and planting false memories/ideas/notions of multiple personality disorder.

Prove to me that the "audio tapes" have been doctored to the extent you imply. Emma herself admits to having edited parts of the audio to leave out peoples names etc in an extremely considerate fashion. I myself have looked at the audio files in a wave editor, and have found no doctoring of which you speak.

And why hasn't she got anywhere with her claims. Thats really easy. Temple University doesn't want to show that it is embarrassed with Dr Jacobs work, and his incompetent and frankly quite possibly abusive research so they're trying to remain silent whilst Emma is doing what a reasonably normal person would do in her position ie try to get the message out to as many people as she can.

And what pray tell, has Dr Jacobs done to prove his side of the case?? Defame Emma Woods, appear on the Paracast and ... ... and ... and ... well ... nothing else. He doesn't even want to let us hear his own audio tapes. If he actually has any at all. He may have of course buggered them up, or lost them ... or maybe even he forgot to press the record button in the first place.

Thank you thank you! Well said!
Best regards,
Redheadnation

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 AM ----------

Some people seem to crave the limelight.Let them hang themselves.

Well right now I think they need a little help.........or they will continue get away with this

---------- Post added at 07:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 AM ----------

You can't know. No-one can, for sure. What you have is a large body of evidence, which adds up to something. Some is anecdotal, and the only reason it's taken seriously is because of its common narrative across a wide range of reporters around the world, over several decades, many thousands of them, and the reports basically the same, with minor variations. Then there is all the corroborating stuff: scoop mark scars, straight line scars, real conscious memories, multi-person events, third parties witnessing UFOs coincident with the abduction, broken tree branches, large round patches of burned and baked earth following reported events, implants showing up under X-ray and many removed, people reported as being returned inexplicably to different locations sometimes wearing someone else's clothes or with personal items missing. It goes on and on, and reports do not diminish in quantity or in nature with the passing years.

Budd Hopkins many years ago challenged Carl Sagan on national TV: "Carl, you've agreed this is an extraordinary phenomenon backed up by a lot of evidence. Don't you agree an extraordinary phenomenon demands an extraordinary investigation?" Well, no kind of official investigation into all this has been forthcoming, though more and more people are taking it seriously. A conspiracy theorist might be forgiven for thinking some kind of cover-up is being perpetrated.

Don't blame the messengers. They are not creating the phenomenon, but reporting it. It exists. What it is, we just don't know.

What is the medical diagnosis of the "blue and red fibers coming out of the skin"? How common is this? Is the cause known?

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------




Your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Others are entitled to disagree.

Go ahead disagree........continue to support this guy and his irresponsible practices..........You just need to think about what he has put in your head............have you not taken time to question this?...........have you not wondered about his motives?........just because you supported him and his practices from the start doesn't mean you can't question them now. Never take anything face value. The problem with this community is that once they grab onto a theory they don't want to change it with new evidence. Can't you and Jacobs see the damage he has done with his irresponsible practice with just Emma???? Open your eyes man.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

It seems like this discussion is beginning to turn nasty. To repeat, can any of us say with a fair degree of certainty we know what happened, in its totality, between Ms. Woods and Dr. Jacobs? All we have at this point are some tapes released by Ms. Woods, which on the surface do not flatter Dr. Jacobs, but this may be far from the full story. We also know that Temple University reviewed the complaint and opted not to move forward, whatever its motivation may be. If I was Dr. Jacob's lawyer I would counsel him to refrain from making public statements on the matter, which is what he has done in large part. This is precisely why this disagreement is best handled before some sort of deliberative body, like a state civil or medical administrative court. No need for verbal fistacuffs.

 

[Keiko]

It seems like this discussion is beginning to turn nasty. To repeat, can any of us say with a fair degree of certainty we know what happened, in its totality, between Ms. Woods and Dr. Jacobs? All we have at this point are some tapes released by Ms. Woods, which on the surface do not flatter Dr. Jacobs, but this may be far from the full story. We also know that Temple University reviewed the complaint and opted not to move forward, whatever its motivation may be. If I was Dr. Jacob's lawyer I would counsel him to refrain from making public statements on the matter, which is what he has done in large part. This is precisely why this disagreement is best handled before some sort of deliberative body, like a state civil or medical administrative court. No need for verbal fistacuffs.

Agreed.

It seems the Woods/Jacobs relationship has been damaging to both parties involved.
But before I say sayonara to this thread I thought I would post up a suggestion –

Perhaps the best way the situation could have been handled would have been as follows: for Woods to have disengaged from Jacobs when she became disillusioned with his methods and conclusions and to have gone back to her therapist (or chosen another) and explained the whole situation. Together, they could have gone through her materials and beliefs up until the point she began working with DJ and tried to establish what she really felt had been happening to her until then in her life and why she chose the unusual route of working with an alien abduction researcher. Together they both could have looked at the regressions with DJ and worked through her issues with this. Then if the psychologist found genuine issues with DJs hypnosis after studying all the unedited material, he (she) could have contacted DJ and professionally discussed with him the problems he may have found with his work, how it had affected his client and why. He could also have submitted a proper report to relevant authorities if deemed necessary or written a paper on same and had it published for people to read, critique and debate. Then perhaps DJ would have had to seriously consider elements about hypnosis and his work that he may not have previously been aware of, and Woods may have gained more understanding of herself, her experiences and a greater peace of mind

 

[ArchieBedford]

"The truth is, there is no "case to answer." Nothing. It's just a pile of BS, supported by doctored audio tapes, fraudulent claims and lies. The minimum of genuine investigative rigor of the "claims" by these authorities has revealed her claims to be bogus." What utter nonsense. Your hubris and callousness floors me. I truly am speechless with the drivel you are spouting, and the attacks at this woman who through no fault of her own has had an incompetent, illegal hypnotherapist poking around in her brain and planting false memories/ideas/notions of multiple personality disorder. Prove to me that the "audio tapes" have been doctored to the extent you imply. Emma herself admits to having edited parts of the audio to leave out peoples names etc in an extremely considerate fashion. I myself have looked at the audio files in a wave editor, and have found no doctoring of which you speak. And why hasn't she got anywhere with her claims. Thats really easy. Temple University doesn't want to show that it is embarrassed with Dr Jacobs work, and his incompetent and frankly quite possibly abusive research so they're trying to remain silent whilst Emma is doing what a reasonably normal person would do in her position ie try to get the message out to as many people as she can. And what pray tell, has Dr Jacobs done to prove his side of the case?? Defame Emma Woods, appear on the Paracast and ... ... and ... and ... well ... nothing else. He doesn't even want to let us hear his own audio tapes. If he actually has any at all. He may have of course buggered them up, or lost them ... or maybe even he forgot to press the record button in the first place.

Unlike most people on here, I've known about this issue for more than a year and a half and watched EW's defamation campaign develop, step by step. I think most people would agree that devoting an entire waking life to defaming and slandering someone, 7 days a week for years, unrelentingly, is not what "any reasonably normal person would do." It is perhaps however what someone suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder would do.

Being cautious about predicting the future, I will nevertheless forecast you will see it all come to nought, and in 2 years' time you'll barely even remember it. Your comments, though you're entitled to them of course, I have to say betray almost complete ignorance of the case and its long history.

Perhaps DJ should release all the tapes into the public domain, so that anyone who can be bothered listening to them all can get the full picture. He reportedly doesn't want to do it, for understandable ethical reasons: in 20 years of working with hundreds of people, this has always been against the legal agreements signed with witnesses/experiencers and would be a clear betrayal of trust. The tapes if released would also, of course, reveal EW's true identity and real name - which she doesn't want, but probably deserves at this stage. This situation is exceptional, as EW seems to have blatantly violated all signed agreements and edited illegally recorded conversations to manufacture a story for purposes of public defamation, and the original tapes in full might set things right. He does have all the tapes, and is most diligent about such matters. You may hear them yet.

 

[dyingsun]

Agreed.

It seems the Woods/Jacobs relationship has been damaging to both parties involved.
But before I say sayonara to this thread I thought I would post up a suggestion –

Perhaps the best way the situation could have been handled would have been as follows: for Woods to have disengaged from Jacobs when she became disillusioned with his methods and conclusions and to have gone back to her therapist (or chosen another) and explained the whole situation. Together, they could have gone through her materials and beliefs up until the point she began working with DJ and tried to establish what she really felt had been happening to her until then in her life and why she chose the unusual route of working with an alien abduction researcher. Together they both could have looked at the regressions with DJ and worked through her issues with this. Then if the psychologist found genuine issues with DJs hypnosis after studying all the unedited material, he (she) could have contacted DJ and professionally discussed with him the problems he may have found with his work, how it had affected his client and why. He could also have submitted a proper report to relevant authorities if deemed necessary or written a paper on same and had it published for people to read, critique and debate. Then perhaps DJ would have had to seriously consider elements about hypnosis and his work that he may not have previously been aware of, and Woods may have gained more understanding of herself, her experiences and a greater peace of mind

In a perfect world this wöuld have been my suggestion as well.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

In order to be the devil's advocate here, Jacobs said HE disengaged from "Emma," because she was harassing him constantly with constant letters and phone calls.

 

[Keiko]

In order to be the devil's advocate here, Jacobs said HE disengaged from "Emma," because she was harassing him constantly with constant letters and phone calls.

True Gene, and I believe him about this. It doesn't seem to gel with her accusations but I didn't want to get into that. The point I wanted to make is that she should have walked away from him if he was as bad as she now claims - as should anyone who has issues with a researcher, therapist or doctor. That should be the first step. Ultimately we are responsible for our own decisions and whose advice we seek and accept.

BTW Apparently it was Wood's therapist who first contacted DJ:
"Alice's therapist first wrote to me about his client in 2002. He was convinced that quite unusual things had happened to her and he was writing on her behalf because she wished to remain anonymous." (International Center for Abduction Research)

If this is true, is she as 'pissed' with him as she is with Dave? He was the qualified professional (I presume). And if I know anything about therapists, I bet he was charging more that DJ's $0.00

 

[dyingsun]

True Gene, and I believe him about this. It doesn't seem to gel with her accusations but I didn't want to get into that. The point I wanted to make is that she should have walked away from him if he was as bad as she now claims - as should anyone who has issues with a researcher, therapist or doctor. That should be the first step. Ultimately we are responsible for our own decisions and whose advice we seek and accept.

BTW Apparently it was Wood's therapist who first contacted DJ:
"Alice's therapist first wrote to me about his client in 2002. He was convinced that quite unusual things had happened to her and he was writing on her behalf because she wished to remain anonymous." (International Center for Abduction Research)

If this is true, is she as 'pissed' with him as she is with Dave? He was the qualified professional (I presume). And if I know anything about therapists, I bet he was charging more that DJ's $0.00

Thank you for these insights.

 

[paraschtick]

In order to be the devil's advocate here, Jacobs said HE disengaged from "Emma," because she was harassing him constantly with constant letters and phone calls.

I don't see how Dr Jacobs can be believed at all since

(1) He was doing hypnosis over the phone - which is very dodgy in the extreme
(2) He was placing ideas of "Multiple Personality Disorder" in Emma's head
(3) He was convinced that those Instant Messages were from alien hybrids, and not only did he know where they lived, he also had photos and video of them (if Elizabeth, his "webmaster" is to be believed)
(4) He has been doing hypnotherapy for some time without a licence
(5) He did not cut ties with Emma much sooner when it seems to be the case that he apparently "knew" that she had some mental health problems (I myself don't believe Emma has any)

I probably could go on and on. I don't believe that anyone can trust anything that comes out of his mouth. Just because he is a tenured Doctor of History doesn't mean that he isn't capable of falsity. I wouldn't trust Dr Jacobs as far as I could throw him ...

---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------

Perhaps DJ should release all the tapes into the public domain, so that anyone who can be bothered listening to them all can get the full picture. He reportedly doesn't want to do it, for understandable ethical reasons: in 20 years of working with hundreds of people, this has always been against the legal agreements signed with witnesses/experiencers and would be a clear betrayal of trust. The tapes if released would also, of course, reveal EW's true identity and real name - which she doesn't want, but probably deserves at this stage. This situation is exceptional, as EW seems to have blatantly violated all signed agreements and edited illegally recorded conversations to manufacture a story for purposes of public defamation, and the original tapes in full might set things right. He does have all the tapes, and is most diligent about such matters. You may hear them yet.

Hang on a sec. Those tapes were as far as I know taped legally. Dr Jacobs knew Emma was taping him all along. At one point on the audio tapes you can hear him trying to set up a tape to record the conversation too ... but he fails for some reason or other. So you cannot say that Emma was illegally taping anything.

I would indeed love to see Dr Jacobs release any of the tapes he has to public scrutiny. And I would indeed go through them. He could also do what Emma has done in her tapes and edit out any names and personal information, as long as he admitted to doing so. However I do not believe this will happen.

And as for Dr Jacobs being ethical. He implanted false notions of "Multiple Personality Disorder" in Emma ... I do not find that to be ethical in any way shape or form. But then again thats just my opinion and I could be wildly off kilter ... but then again ... I don't really think so

 

[redheadnation]

True Gene, and I believe him about this. It doesn't seem to gel with her accusations but I didn't want to get into that. The point I wanted to make is that she should have walked away from him if he was as bad as she now claims - as should anyone who has issues with a researcher, therapist or doctor. That should be the first step. Ultimately we are responsible for our own decisions and whose advice we seek and accept.

BTW Apparently it was Wood's therapist who first contacted DJ:
"Alice's therapist first wrote to me about his client in 2002. He was convinced that quite unusual things had happened to her and he was writing on her behalf because she wished to remain anonymous." (International Center for Abduction Research)

If this is true, is she as 'pissed' with him as she is with Dave? He was the qualified professional (I presume). And if I know anything about therapists, I bet he was charging more that DJ's $0.00

I agree that EW should have left his service. But being an RN I can tell you that the idea of patient's having rights and to question doctors is a new and upcoming trend. I would have to say that it is difficult for a patient that has "issues" to leave the care or see that the care they are getting is not helping or harming them. It up to the provider to release them and turn them over to a better qualified provider. He did that but way too late and now she is very upset and now really speaking out. My issue is that he should not have been performing hypnosis in the first place esp over the phone. That is just unthinkable! The issue of EW brought forth the issue of hypnosis which is a dangerous practice.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------

I don't see how Dr Jacobs can be believed at all since

(1) He was doing hypnosis over the phone - which is very dodgy in the extreme
(2) He was placing ideas of "Multiple Personality Disorder" in Emma's head
(3) He was convinced that those Instant Messages were from alien hybrids, and not only did he know where they lived, he also had photos and video of them (if Elizabeth, his "webmaster" is to be believed)
(4) He has been doing hypnotherapy for some time without a licence
(5) He did not cut ties with Emma much sooner when it seems to be the case that he apparently "knew" that she had some mental health problems (I myself don't believe Emma has any)

I probably could go on and on. I don't believe that anyone can trust anything that comes out of his mouth. Just because he is a tenured Doctor of History doesn't mean that he isn't capable of falsity. I wouldn't trust Dr Jacobs as far as I could throw him ...

---------- Post added at 10:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 AM ----------



Hang on a sec. Those tapes were as far as I know taped legally. Dr Jacobs knew Emma was taping him all along. At one point on the audio tapes you can hear him trying to set up a tape to record the conversation too ... but he fails for some reason or other. So you cannot say that Emma was illegally taping anything.

I would indeed love to see Dr Jacobs release any of the tapes he has to public scrutiny. And I would indeed go through them. He could also do what Emma has done in her tapes and edit out any names and personal information, as long as he admitted to doing so. However I do not believe this will happen.

And as for Dr Jacobs being ethical. He implanted false notions of "Multiple Personality Disorder" in Emma ... I do not find that to be ethical in any way shape or form. But then again thats just my opinion and I could be wildly off kilter ... but then again ... I don't really think so

I just love the way you lay it all out@