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Bigelow on Knapp this Sunday!

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Kieran, all you have to do is listen to one of the past C2C interviews with George Knapp and Lazar himself alludes to the fact that he stole Element 115 from Area 51. I am not making this up and I know almost anyone who has listened to the C2C programs would agree....he even attempted to make a jovial point about "not wanting to talk about" where the rest of it was, as he didn't want to incriminate himself on the broadcast.
.


PararealitySaint you'll see in that quote he says "I obtained it, yeah"

I've heard all of Lazar's interview on Coast through the years and the first time he's ask about it he replies "where did you hear that Art?" and laughs then says he doesn't want to comment on it.

Asked another time by Art he again states he doesn't want to comment on it.

In that above MP3 from Don's Show , John Lear finally says in his own word how element 115 was obtained and it didn't come from Area 51 or S4. This is what he claims.
 
PararealitySaint you'll see in that quote he says "I obtained it, yeah"

I've heard all of Lazar's interview on Coast through the years and the first time he's ask about it he replies "where did you hear that Art?" and laughs then says he doesn't want to comment on it.

Asked another time by Art he again states he doesn't want to comment on it.

In that above MP3 from Don's Show , John Lear finally says in his own word how element 115 was obtained and it didn't come from Area 51 or S4. This is what he claims.

Listen, when you have years and years of people commenting on then fact that he stole element 115 from Area 51, and he never so much as flinches in denial....then you have him directly asked and he admits that he "obtained it".....who the hell cares if it was stolen from Area 51 or from Mars? The fact remains....Kieran had no idea that from the lips of Bob Lazar, that he ever admitted being in the possession of Element 115 when the facts show that not only had he admitted this as the case, but he continues to act elusive every time he's questioned about what happened with it, etc. Many times he told many people it was stolen from him...then he acts like he just doesn't know.....whatever.

The fact remains. The man said he had it and if that unfortunately doesn't work for anyone out there who wants this to look like some mis-communication error on the side of John Lear or anyone, oh well....he said he took the stuff home with him and whether you believe his story about it being stolen, lost, or the Zeta's came back and zapped it up their laser pipe...what's the difference.
 
Listen, when you have years and years of people commenting on then fact that he stole element 115 from Area 51, and he never so much as flinches in denial....then you have him directly asked and he admits that he "obtained it".....who the hell cares if it was stolen from Area 51 or from Mars? The fact remains....Kieran had no idea that from the lips of Bob Lazar, that he ever admitted being in the possession of Element 115 when the facts show that not only had he admitted this as the case, but he continues to act elusive every time he's questioned about what happened with it, etc. Many times he told many people it was stolen from him...then he acts like he just doesn't know.....whatever.

The fact remains. The man said he had it and if that unfortunately doesn't work for anyone out there who wants this to look like some mis-communication error on the side of John Lear or anyone, oh well....he said he took the stuff home with him and whether you believe his story about it being stolen, lost, or the Zeta's came back and zapped it up their laser pipe...what's the difference.

..sigh..well "the difference" is if you had listened to the show and had listened to Knapps interviews with Bob and when Knapp himself was interview by Art Bell, both Knapp and Lear both think that supposedly what was stolen from Lazar is still obtainable. In other words allegedly its hidden somewhere or someone has access to it for the right amout of money. Knapp said with work it could possibly be gotten, and i think Lear said it was hidden.
 
..sigh..well "the difference" is if you had listened to the show and had listened to Knapps interviews with Bob and when Knapp himself was interview by Art Bell, both Knapp and Lear both think that supposedly what was stolen from Lazar is still obtainable. In other words allegedly its hidden somewhere or someone has access to it for the right amout of money. Knapp said with work it could possibly be gotten, and i think Lear said it was hidden.

Huh?

Ok, perhaps something is missing here...

A. Originally the question of whether or not Bob Lazar stated that he took element 115 from Area 51 was something Kieran didn't know or had heard of.
B. I posted an interview which didn't include Art Bell or George Knapp (or even John Lear) that Bob Lazar specifically stated he "obtained element 115"....I.E. The hotel interview. Let's review once again:

Transcript from Conference Held at Little A-Le-Inn, Rachel, Nevada, May 1, 1993
Q: I understand you took some 115 home with you to do some testing on your own.
BL: I obtained it, yeah.
QF: Did you document any of your testing at all?
BL: Yeah.
QF: You did.
BL: Yeah, mostly video tape and things like that.
QF: John said it was stolen from you later? Last night he said, "They stole it back," he said.
BL: Well, there's another level to that. Like I said, right now it's in private hands.

Notice the usage of the singular as in "I".....he did....not John Lear....not Richard Nixon, Not Mork, but "I OBTAINED IT, YEAH."

And please note, because this is becoming rather old now....Notice that before he was even asked to confirm, it was, "you took some 115 home with you"......Not to a secret place in never never land......not to a Walmart photo lab...BUT HOME WITH HIM.

C. When questioned further about his taking of element 115, he furthered that it was "taken from him" in some way.

I really don't know what else I can do to show the real difference between what many "in the know" desire to make look like this misconceived notion of John Lear's or even George Knapp's, and the obvious answers and direct communique Lazar stated in this and probably other interviews as well.

His stories changed like the wind and this clearly shows in the many times both Stanton Friedman and others called him out on thus.

Lastly, I listened to every interview Knapp had with Lazar....In them he was very allusive about his possessing element 115. He acted as if it was something he had but didn't want to officially admit....or that others had it and he knew about it and wouldn't tell.

It's plain sad how he's rode the hides of all those who want so very badly to believe in the E.T. explanation for all that is happening in this very strange world.

No matter if you agree with me or not, Bob "Bazar" is so convoluted in his explanations and information that a little advice is in order....Stick to people like Stanton Friedman instead. At least he can back up his educational background with real files, has verified works, and investigates with reality always in mind.
 
Alright, I get it. You guys just cant write Lazar off. So be it. No skin off my nose. I just think that there is way more evidence that this guy is a liar than there is for him being legit. Thus I personally think he should be given no credit whatsoever. It blows me away to read the leaps of logic your willing to follow to keep that ship afloat. But in the end it is about your own comfort level in what you believe. Just do me a favor, if you ever get to talk to Lazar, ask questions not related to Area51 or S4, or spacecraft. Ask general physics, chemistry, and math questions. Ask for thesis info, professors, and classmates. Ask the unambiguous and see how far you get.
 
Alright, I get it. You guys just cant write Lazar off. So be it. No skin off my nose. I just think that there is way more evidence that this guy is a liar than there is for him being legit. Thus I personally think he should be given no credit whatsoever. It blows me away to read the leaps of logic your willing to follow to keep that ship afloat. But in the end it is about your own comfort level in what you believe. Just do me a favor, if you ever get to talk to Lazar, ask questions not related to Area51 or S4, or spacecraft. Ask general physics, chemistry, and math questions. Ask for thesis info, professors, and classmates. Ask the unambiguous and see how far you get.

Ron,

Believe it or not I personally know people who have asked him questions of a relatively advanced or "educated" level. Initially he came across as someone who knew his stuff, but when pushed to any "advanced" level, he seems to lack the basics. This was also confirmed by Doctor David L. Morgan who looked into his supposed advanced level and knowledge and came up with the conclusion that, "Mr. Lazar on many occasions demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of current physical theories."

Not something you would think an advanced scientist of Bob's supposed level would have any trouble with.
 
I will address this to Ron and Pararealitysaint.

I would have the believe 958 American dollars, was not a bad wage to take home in one whole week from work. By todays standards those amount of dollars would be low wage for an experienced scientist working in the black project world, but, that amount of dollars could have been the optimum wage/salary for someone with the educational and working experience of what Lazar had in the year 1989.

I honestly can't understand why Stanton or Knapp, men who have investigated this story, have not put together a "CHART" showing the gross and net salaries of scientists in 1988. Especially Scientists of all grades working at Los Alamos Laboratory. We probably be able to debunk that W2.. If we had something to look at, and compare Lazar payment too!!
Stan has talked about how much he was being paid at the times he was working on nuclear powered rockets. It was much much more than the nearly 50 thousand dollars a year that this weekly amount would have indicated. I will need to find the information but my memory says it was 70 or 80k. 20 or 30k more than Lazars supposed salary if you assume this was a weekly check.

It also makes know sense to me. Why Lazar would not get paid by a "Cashier check" for doing some skilled manual work, that be right taking the Job description into account, should only kept Lazar busy for a day or two at best if even.. Please explain to me why he would get paid by the Dept of the Naval Intelligence, in the way he did Ron seeing he was not permanent employee or even a temporary employee!!
Easily explained. The base officers do not have access to money. they submit all invoices or contracted labor to be paid by departmental accounting. No matter what you do for the military as a contractor you are given a contractor ID and an accounting designation. unfortunately, we can't look these up as they are not part of FOIA. Most likely the base took his information down and transferred it to the initiating branches direct accounting arm. In this case I can infer that the equipment he serviced was either owned or currently being operated by the U.S. Navy.

I going to support your argument against Lazar. The State of Nevada does not have Social Security Tax the W2 is showing a Social Security tax deduction. This has me worried me to put it mildly. Lazar Social Security Number allegedly had been traced to New York state. So can anyone confirm for me this. If you move from One State/ New York to Nevada to live and work, would he still have to pay a social security tax to the IRS. As his social security ID was issused in the state of New York?
I think you are mistaken. Nevada has no state income tax. Everyone pays the federal level tax known as Social Security tax.

---------- Post added at 05:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 AM ----------

Physicists hypothesis element15 will eventually be a stable Element and have longer life. More on that shortly. Ron your mixing the two up. What we currently understand, and what we can prove in a lab today, and what Bob Lazar has claimed happened to him. In my mind would be two different things.

Like the Superheavy element15 was seen in 2004, but it decayed as fast, as it was seen, back to the element13. The reason. Our current level of technology can't produce enough atoms or protons to sustain, or keep the Element15 stable. Now to what Bob claimed in 1989.

Bob claim was the element 15 at Area51 could be held in the palm of your hand in solid form. And that is was been used as a fuel source to power extraterrestrail craft across the universe. Is it possible Element15 could be held in ones hand. It likely (if not radioactive) and would be possible in the future all things going well. You'll need a significant quality of atoms and neutrons to keep element 15 stable and in solid form. The production methods been used today by us, can not produce enough, atoms to do this, but in the future advanced technology, may change what we can do. Disingenuous to put it forward that Bob was lying Ron. The Element15 research under certain circumstances, and continual work may prove the claim of Bob lazar, with no bias to the outcome of whether or not, Bob Lazar story had any ring of truth to it.

The story Bob told was the stable Element15 came from outside our planet. It just adds to the weirdness. And that it was given to us by our good friends the Zeta Reticulians. Element15 produced with the collision of Calcium Ion with the Americium (protons)and adding more neutrons to it which we are unable to do today. Hypothetically Element15 should become verry stable and believe or not become non radioactive piece of matter.

Admittedly, this is not my area of expertise. So, I will defer to others with more precise knowledge. That said, I have yet to hear from a single person with a string of accredited letters after their name support the notion that this would be possible. But, I have heard several say that it is not likely. Thus, until presented with more information that is where I stand.
 
Look as far as I'm concerned anyone who is passionate to post on these boards and eloquently point out the pros and cons for theory A or Theory B or the minutia involved has my respect.

I never did state personally i believe Lazar one bit. I mostly like entertaining concepts and seeing what rattles out if you shake these old stories up. Here is what i mean,

115 was supposed to have another curious ability to do something with a very common element that nothing else we know of can do. This is not widely known public knowledge so i sometimes look for this as a clue to someone who was in the know with the story and maybe shed some light on it.

Don Ecker had a recent guest who was very good friends with Gene Huff and Bob Lazar to the degree he was at his home a few times during these events. He shared a very interesting story again that's not well known that Huff told him and asked him not to repeat some 25 years ago about what supposedly happened while Bob was reading the "breifing papers", that was a fascinating story.

Could i be debating and entertaining the finer points of Bull--it? Of course. If it turns out to be that so be it, I've no Dog in this fight, this field, this story is interesting, thought provoking and most importantly to me this particular story more then most in the field which on occasion i do take seriously, it's entertainment.

Oh and for the record since no one seems to want to listen to the John Lear show, I'll save you the time. No need to hear me begging John to produce this element 115 to prove this story, John says Lazar obatianed this Element 115 from someone at Los Alamos. That both Lazar and Lear picked it up on some highway from someone who drove up to Nevada and gave it to them.
 
Oh and for the record since no one seems to want to listen to the John Lear show, I'll save you the time. No need to hear me begging John to produce this element 115 to prove this story, John says Lazar obatianed this Element 115 from someone at Los Alamos. That both Lazar and Lear picked it up on some highway from someone who drove up to Nevada and gave it to them.

I plan on listening o the interview. I just have not had the time. Also, Lear is a hard guy to listen to. Was there not an interview with Lazar where he talked about having smuggled some of it out in a film canister? I seem to remember that but can not recall why.
 
Stan has talked about how much he was being paid at the times he was working on nuclear powered rockets. It was much much more than the nearly 50 thousand dollars a year that this weekly amount would have indicated. I will need to find the information but my memory says it was 70 or 80k. 20 or 30k more than Lazars supposed salary if you assume this was a weekly check.

I don't know. What Stanton got paid for his very first job as a scientist, second job, and so forth? But we need to establish first, what he got paid for real, as a young scientist and been fresh, out of education before comparing pay. Lazar story his claim was he got a degree from MIT in 1982/ Now for certain we know Lazar was working at Los Alamos Laboratory, and his name was there in their phonebook from 1982. So that means. He finished his education in 1982, and then was employed by a company called "Kirk Meyer" to work at Los Alamos Laboratory. Now MIT have claimed to not know a person, by the name of Robert(Bob) Lazar. Ok that may be the case, but How does a Person, with no education to speak of, get to work at Los Alamos Laboratory, alongside some of the brightest minds on the Planet?

I think you are mistaken. Nevada has no state income tax. Everyone pays the federal level tax known as Social Security tax

I had the belief, the State of Nevada, was also except from having a Social Security Tax. My Fault. I can be forgiven for that stupid mistake, seen I'm not an American citizen at all. Lazar W2-tax slip-Federal income tax withheld, to the the amount of 168.42, but as Nevada has never had a State Income Tax. Well then the likelihood, is the Lazar W2-Tax slip is bogus, and has been counterfeited. It really is incredible, or just plain dumb and stupid. Lazar would not have known, the Tax laws of the state, he was living in and working in. Nobody is evergoing to know what motivated Lazar, to tell the world this story, but I don't think it as cut and dry as some people think, he could be lying, but there things about Lazar background, that have never been addressed.

Second time. How does a man with a lackluster education end up working for a company contracted to work at Los Alamos Laboratory?


Admittedly, this is not my area of expertise. So, I will defer to others with more precise knowledge. That said, I have yet to hear from a single person with a string of accredited letters after their name support the notion that this would be possible. But, I have heard several say that it is not likely. Thus, until presented with more information that is where I stand.

This might interest you, hopefully this will be my last post to this thread::)

Chemistry and Materials Science Directorate's Heavy-Elements Research Team
in January 2004 (l-r): Jerry Landrum (retired), Dawn Shaughnessy, Joshua Patin, Philip Wilk,
and Kenton Moody. Not pictured: John Wild, Mark Stoyer, Nancy Stoyer,
Jackie Kenneally, and Ron Lougheed (retired.

Interview with Joshua Patin 2004, Ph.D., Nuclear Chemist, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, California in 2004.

AND IN THE HYPOTHESIS OF THESE HIGHER ELEMENTS, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT CONCERNING THE PERIODIC TABLE, PHYSICISTS HAVE SPECULATED THERE WOULD BE A POINT SOMEWHERE AROUND ELEMENT 115 OR HIGHER WHERE THERE WOULD BE MORE STABILITY AND MAYBE EVEN A LONGER LIFE?

True. When you are looking at the various isotopes that can be produced of elements 114, 115, 116, even 113, there are some isotopes that have been predicted to have very long half lives. The region where initially it was proposed to have more stability was Element 114 with 114 protons. But we need to put more neutrons in (to balance out the protons) and that's a whole other area in terms of what kind of experiment we want to perform.

With the current level of technology and types of targets like the americium 243 and the beams that we used of the calcium 48, we can't necessarily quite get there, but we can get close. That's why we've done these experiments.

By doing the Element 115 and Element 113 experiment and in the past with the group of Element 116 and 114, we've shown that there is this enhanced area of stability.

OULD THERE BE AN ELEMENT 115 ISOTOPE THAT IS SOLID AND CAN BE HELD IN THE HAND?

Some day down the road, I think so. If it's true that we find something that is long enough lived. To hold something in your hand, you would need a significant quantity of these atoms. We've produced four atoms of Element 115 in a month. It would take * you don't have enough time in the rest of the universe to create enough that you could hold in your hand through these same kinds of production methods (that we are using). That's why I say a future technology might allow us advances in terms of how much can be produced and the target material, maybe a better way of producing * but somewhere down the road, there might be a possibility, sure.

AND SO WITH ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO PRODUCE ELEMENT 115 IN ENOUGH QUANTITY THAT IT COULD BE SOME KIND OF SOLID MATTER THAT COULD BE WORKED WITH AND APPLIED IN OTHER WAYS?

Exactly."


IF YOU HAD THE TECHNOLOGY TO ADD NEUTRONS TO WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN ABLE TO SEE IN THE COLLIDER, YOU MIGHT END UP WITH MATTER THAT WE KNOW WOULD BE STABLE ENOUGH TO SIT ON A TABLE?

I think the technology would have to be completely different. I think in our current experiments, even if you added more neutrons, you are still only going to produce a certain number of atoms * 10, 15, 20 or whatever. You need millions and millions and millions of these before you'd have something that * let alone could see or put in your hand to hold. So, I mention this along the lines that what we do, you wouldn't use what we do as a production method. It's purely an observational sense.

Also along those lines * if it is something that lives as long as I guess what you are saying, it's nothing we would see. We see the decay of these elements through their radioactive decay. And we can see them because they have such short life times, such short half lives. So during the course of an experiment, we expect a decay to occur. If they weren't radioactive and were stable, we would never see them. We only see the energy that is given off in their decay.

So, it's along those lines. If the lifetimes increase, it becomes increasingly more difficult to see them. That's something that will be corrected for and there are other ways to do these experiments where you are not relying on their radioactivity to see them, but you can separate them other ways in the chance of seeing them if they have longer half lives. That's when you start producing them in chemical experiments where you can tell by their chemistry if they are Element 115. That's in the future. That's not right now. And you definitely wouldn't use our particular method for doing what we've seen to produce anything like that.

From what you've told me in terms of handling it with your hand, you don't want to handle radioactivity with your hands. So if it's something that is stable where there is no concern about radioactivity * and this is just in general * you are not going to have radioactivity (to test), therefore you are going to have to use chemistry to identify * some chemical method to identify what you have. And that's only with massive quantities * something that is stable like that, that's when chemistry is involved.
 
I have heard the Lear interview and have listened intently to all the past interviews that Bob Lazar has graced us with.

My original point was merely to show how he changed his story so much, that one could compare it to nothing less than a fanatical liar presenting us all with his wares.

There is no ignoring the earlier years when Lazar stated he took element 115 from Area 51. His words are obvious and have been transcribed as saying so.

As I mentioned before, I believed the man in the early 90's. I thought he was the answer to all the years before in study of E.T. and the reasons for all our advances in science and everything which seemed to fall into place.

Then came the inquiries.....that which I thought Mr. Lazar could easily reply to with justified answers which would stand the test of time.

They didn't.

He's uneducated in the more precise advances in propulsion science and theory.
He's changed his mind about the acquiring of element 115 so many times its impossible to know which story he clings to today.
He's been questioned by differing aspects of the story and has shown a direct disregard for continuity in both his time-lines and justified positions.
He's lied about his education, as even Dr. Friedman pointed out it's impossible to get an advanced education and thus degree in both Massachusetts and California at the same time....The commute alone would have bankrupted even Al Gore.

And this line of negative attributes goes on and on.

Ok, we have hashed this out long enough. It is obvious the man is a charlatan and a compulsive liar. A photo-lab technician who wanted to be much more.
 
Is is really possible, Kieran, that you can't imagine an answer to this?

Do you think the scientists at Los Alamos did their own janitorial work?
The record keeping? The building maintenance? Etc. Etc.?

It's like saying the guy who works for the company that paints the lines on a race track must be a great driver!

Lance

Lance. Los Alamos for least five years were adamant that "Robert Lazar" never worked there. George Knapp his words. I made numerous phone calls and wrote a stack of letters to them asking do they know a Robert Lazar, but after I sent them a lab book containing his name along with a front page Los Alamos Article that described him as Physicist at the lab. Los Alamos only then admitted knowing him.

Lance this newspaper front page article is from 1982.. Bob story about Area51-S4 was 1989.. So are you seriously telling me he planned all this back in 1982, but he waited another seven years to tell the world all about it?

Lance Kirk-Mayer is a scientific and technical headhunting firm. Also Knapp interviewed Seven employees who worked for Los Alamos Laboratory, and all seven told Knapp he worked as a Physicist. Before you say anything about Knapp, he was the guy who did the legwork first not Stanton. Knapp and Stanton don't agree but are friends. But Knapp said. Stanton claim that Lazar was in the bottom third of his high school class. This could not be substantiated, and Stan knows it.

If he is lying the polygraph thought differently. First test inconclusive the second test he passed
 
Lance Kirk-Mayer is a scientific and technical headhunting firm.
Actually I think they were a staffing firm from what I can find out. The difference being that they dealt not only in finding scientists but in providing technical staff(read less educated non-academics) as well. I believe that they are no longer an active corporation. I could be wrong but unless you have better information that is what I have been able to find out.

Also Knapp interviewed Seven employees who worked for Los Alamos Laboratory, and all seven told Knapp he worked as a Physicist. Before you say anything about Knapp, he was the guy who did the legwork first not Stanton.

I have never heard of these seven people. Where do you get this information from? I have, several years ago, spoken to Knapp at the MUFON symposium. Myself and about 9 or 10 others stood and talked to him for a while. He repeated the information about the phone book and the (we all got the feeling this was 2 different sources) couple of sources he checked on things like the color of the cafeteria or the location of the mens restroom. Knapp never mentioned anything about 7 people that claimed to know that Lazar worked there as a physicist.

Knapp and Stanton don't agree but are friends. But Knapp said. Stanton claim that Lazar was in the bottom third of his high school class. This could not be substantiated, and Stan knows it.
Why was this not substantiated? What proof do you have of this? I was under the impression that he graduated from W. Tresper Clarke High School in Long Island, New York, in august 1976. Where he was ranked 261 out of a class of 369.

If he is lying the polygraph thought differently. First test inconclusive the second test he passed

Polygraphs are not reliable unless they follow a very specific set of guidelines. even then they ideally need to b administered several times to show a pattern of deceit if it exists. I have learned a bunch about polygraphs over the last couple of months. The biggest thing I have learned is that they are rarely conducted correctly and should not be consulted as the sole source of identifying deceit. A true polygraph survey should really be a battery of short sessions spaced days apart and quizzing on a very specific subject. The administrator of the tests should find multiple ways to ask the same question and do so several times at different intervals during the session. I doubt seriously that this was done in either one of these scenarios. So basically, 95% of all lie detector tests we all hear about are worthless.
 
The biggest blow to Lazar's credibility in my eyes, other than his association with John Lear, is that he is not cooling his heels in federal prison somewhere.
 
Actually I think they were a staffing firm from what I can find out. The difference being that they dealt not only in finding scientists but in providing technical staff(read less educated non-academics) as well. I believe that they are no longer an active corporation. I could be wrong but unless you have better information that is what I have been able to find out.



I have never heard of these seven people. Where do you get this information from? I have, several years ago, spoken to Knapp at the MUFON symposium. Myself and about 9 or 10 others stood and talked to him for a while. He repeated the information about the phone book and the (we all got the feeling this was 2 different sources) couple of sources he checked on things like the color of the cafeteria or the location of the mens restroom. Knapp never mentioned anything about 7 people that claimed to know that Lazar worked there as a physicist.


Why was this not substantiated? What proof do you have of this? I was under the impression that he graduated from W. Tresper Clarke High School in Long Island, New York, in august 1976. Where he was ranked 261 out of a class of 369.



Polygraphs are not reliable unless they follow a very specific set of guidelines. even then they ideally need to b administered several times to show a pattern of deceit if it exists. I have learned a bunch about polygraphs over the last couple of months. The biggest thing I have learned is that they are rarely conducted correctly and should not be consulted as the sole source of identifying deceit. A true polygraph survey should really be a battery of short sessions spaced days apart and quizzing on a very specific subject. The administrator of the tests should find multiple ways to ask the same question and do so several times at different intervals during the session. I doubt seriously that this was done in either one of these scenarios. So basically, 95% of all lie detector tests we all hear about are worthless.

George Knapp posted around ten messages during the year 2006 , as a members of ATS.. Here is that post I quoted from in full.
I never saw the shot-out tires and was pretty ticked off that Bob didn't tell me about it right away but I did interview other people who say they saw them. Bob was infuriatingly nonchalant about making a point to secure evidence or document events in his life. However, I verified plenty of other stuff, and as mentioned in another posting, I lived through some of the events myself.

For one thing, Bob knew when and where the test flights of 'the craft' could be viewed. He took three small groups out into the desert on three consecutive weeks to witness the objects. There is videotape of one such incident. I interviewed all of the participants and they all told the same story. How did he know? This was long before any story about saucers at 51 had been aired. He also knew about the existence of a facility dubbed S-4. I confirmed this with Nellis AFB, although they would not tell me where S-4 was or what was being tested out there. Bob also knew about OFI, the Office of Federal Investigations. I had never heard of it and didn't believe it was real, but subsequently confirmed that this little known agency is responsible for conducting background checks on people who are hired to work at the Nevada Test Site and sensitive areas on the Nellis Range. Bob also named the agent who had come to his home---Mike Thigpen. I confirmed that Thigpen really did work for OFI. How did Lazar know?

When I asked Bob to submit to a polygraph exam, he did not hesitate. The first exam was inconclusive. The examiner said he felt that Lazar was too frightened to register an accurate result. The second set of polygraph exams was administered by a former Orange County police officer, Terry Tavernetti, who still works as a security chief for a major LV corporation. Tavernetti took a lot more time in calming Bob down prior to the exams. He administered four sets of tests and Bob passed all of them...easily. Tavernetti gave me an on camera interview and said that Lazar was being truthful. A few months later, there was a break-in at TT's home. The burglars targeted his polygraph charts and nothing else. Hmmm.

Bob's academic claims have always been troublesome to me. I know that other researchers, including my friend Stan Friedman, have made a lot of noise about their discovery that there are no records to prove that Bob attended MIT or Cal Tech. This information was made public in my very first on-air story about Bob. No one else broke the news or made this "gotcha" discovery. It was on the table from day one. (I give credit to Stan for doing the kind of legwork that few other Lazar critics have undertaken themselves, but, as mentioned, it is ground that I had already covered. Stan also makes the claim that Lazar was in the bottom third of his high school class. This cannot be substantiated, and Stan knows it. The school will not release such information. We have to take Stan's word for it, a level of proof that HE would be unlikely to accept if the positions were reversed.) Nonetheless, I admit that Lazar cannot prove his academic claims. Knowing Bob as well as I do, I find it hard to believe that he would endure the many non-science elective courses that would be required for any college degree. That said, an exaggerated claim about educational credentials is not a death knell for his credibility in my view. (Unlike the Dan Burisch case, which is different on many levels.)

The key question for me was whether he really did work as a physicist at Los Alamos lab. If so, it is conceivable that he might have been hired to work in other sensitive positions, including the S-4 job. Los Alamos was adamant in saying that Lazar was never there. Period. I made numerous phone calls and wrote a stack of letters. After I sent them a copy of the lab phone book containing Bob's name, along with a front page Los Alamos newspaper article that described him as a physicist at the lab, Los Alamos relented and admitted that Bob had, in fact, been there, but as an employee of a subcontractor, Kirk-Mayer, a scientific and technical headhunting firm. They also coughed up an employee i.d. number. I had already initiated contacts with Kirk-Mayer. They told me right off the bat that Bob had been recruited and employed by the company, but that changed in a hurry. They subsequently told me that they could not find any records about Lazar, and then they stopped responding to my inquiries altogether. It didn't matter. I found and interviewed several people who worked at the lab with Bob. They told me he was employed as a physicist and worked on classified projects. Now, maybe he was exaggerating his academic background---it wouldn't be the first time someone has done this---but did this mean he was lying about everything else? I didn't think so then and don't think so now.

Have any other employees of 51 verified parts of his story? Absolutely. There are more than two dozen people who worked at Groom Lake in the 50's, 60's, 70's. and 80's. who have confirmed to me, in confidence, pieces of Lazar's story. One of those people is a former security officer who agreed to meet with Lazar and give him a pop quiz. He asked simple questions such as what color is the paint inside the mess hall, how do employees pay for their meals, things like that, tough to fabricate. The officer told me that Lazar passed. He knew what he was talking about. How did he know?

There's a lot more to it. This will have to do for now.
 
I find it funny how this thread has evolved from "Bigelow on Knapp" to "Bob Lazar" (thank you Paul Kimball).
I also find the Bob Lazar story very hard to believe, almost as hard as I find it to believe that any sane person would open themselves up to ridicule as Lazar has. If Bob Lazar is not sane then he should be committed (or at least be getting some serious psychiatric help).
 
I find it funny how this thread has evolved from "Bigelow on Knapp" to "Bob Lazar" (thank you Paul Kimball).
I also find the Bob Lazar story very hard to believe, almost as hard as I find it to believe that any sane person would open themselves up to ridicule as Lazar has. If Bob Lazar is not sane then he should be committed (or at least be getting some serious psychiatric help).

When you are a desperate people looking to hold onto anything you possibly can to legitimize some type of foundation for the utter lack of evidence as to anything extra-terrestrial in origin, the only answer then becomes a defensive hold out for far out charlatan's like Lazar and Boylan and the like.

What I love is that the more you show them for the real fakes they are, the more they hold on to quasi notions and "hypnosis" and "element 115", etc.

They say "love is blind".....
 
In other words they are "sick" and need help. .

Yeah but you better watch out, I'm in the minority on this here.....Soon you shall feel the wrath of the "Marvin the Martian wannabes" and then your in for it.

Or they will ignore you....

Whatever.

Nice to see someone with a real sense of what's happening actually on this forum.
 
Yeah but you better watch out, I'm in the minority on this here.....Soon you shall feel the wrath of the "Marvin the Martian wannabes" and then your in for it.

Or they will ignore you....

Whatever.

Nice to see someone with a real sense of what's happening actually on this forum.

I've had experience with Lazar "types" (ex-wife). They actually believe what they're saying. I think that if you actually believe in your lies you would pass a polygraph. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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