Carol Rainey (Mrs. Budd Hopkins)

[Burnt State]

To be honest, when you look at the handwriting between Linda's and Janet's you can see for yourself that there is a similarity there. So again when it comes to whether or not these people realky exist it remains a question in my mind. And becuse all these imagined witnesses pkay such concrete roles and were verifies primarily by the two involves, Budd and Linda, it becomes a more likely scenario that it's their story and not a reality.

Similarly, and while I deeply applaud the work that @Rikki does and that your heart is so open that you can care the way you do for strangers I question whether or not Linda suffers from PTSD or not, but then I'm a doubter. But please understand, I do not want to take anything away from your intentions or your invaluable work.

The son's dreams and the creepy story of the old guy wanting a hug in exchange for a diving helmet do not equal alien abduction and I get confused and angry really when we start subjecting children to an imagined alien abduction. It stirs up the same emotions when I see Jehovsh Witnesses at the door with their seven year old standing beside them in tow having to endure an adult belief system. It also begs the question why on earth the police would not have been involved in various stages of these stories, especially if the child is involved. It all just stretches credulity so much that it really does appear that a whole lot of nothing has been turned into something to be debated about, the way that Jacobs believes there is a hybrid race breeding program under way. Look at how many people now on earth legitimately believe they are themselves products of an alien hybrid program. Inserting such ideas into the populous is dangerous and has great consequences for the vulnerable and marginalized, specifically children. I have nothing else to say here, as stated previously, this story is about belief more than it is about reality IMHO.

 

[kruggutter]

Comparisons of handwriting by untrained individuals do not equate with a professional forensic document examination.

Furthermore, untrained individuals attempting handwriting comparison mismatch documents almost six times more
than trained individuals.

In the study a group of 100 professional document examiners were gathered and each of them made 144 pair-wise comparisons of freely-created original handwritten documents. They were tested in three groups in three separate parts of the United States of America (one in the northeast, one in the southeast and one in the southwest). In addition a separate control group of individuals, who were not professional document examiners but had similar educational backgrounds to the professionals, was also put together to do exactly the same thing.

The results of that study stated:

“Unlike the professional examiners, the nonprofessionals tended to grossly over-associate. They erroneously “matched” many documents that were created by different writers, mismatching almost six times as many unknown documents to database documents as the professionals did (38.3% vs. 6.5% of the documents.”

Writer Identification by Professional Document Examiners
by Moshe Kam,’ Ph.D.; Gabriel Fielding M.Sc.; and Robert Conn, Ph.D.
Page 778, Left Column, Journal of Forensic Sciences,
Volume 42, Issue 5 (September 1997)

Sincerely

Sean

 

[Creepy Green Light]

To be honest, when you look at the handwriting between Linda's and Janet's you can see for yourself that there is a similarity there. So again when it comes to whether or not these people realky exist it remains a question in my mind. And becuse all these imagined witnesses pkay such concrete roles and were verifies primarily by the two involves, Budd and Linda, it becomes a more likely scenario that it's their story and not a reality.

Similarly, and while I deeply applaud the work that @Rikki does and that your heart is so open that you can care the way you do for strangers I question whether or not Linda suffers from PTSD or not, but then I'm a doubter. But please understand, I do not want to take anything away from your intentions or your invaluable work.

The son's dreams and the creepy story of the old guy wanting a hug in exchange for a diving helmet do not equal alien abduction and I get confused and angry really when we start subjecting children to an imagined alien abduction. It stirs up the same emotions when I see Jehovsh Witnesses at the door with their seven year old standing beside them in tow having to endure an adult belief system. It also begs the question why on earth the police would not have been involved in various stages of these stories, especially if the child is involved. It all just stretches credulity so much that it really does appear that a whole lot of nothing has been turned into something to be debated about, the way that Jacobs believes there is a hybrid race breeding program under way. Look at how many people now on earth legitimately believe they are themselves products of an alien hybrid program. Inserting such ideas into the populous is dangerous and has great consequences for the vulnerable and marginalized, specifically children. I have nothing else to say here, as stated previously, this story is about belief more than it is about reality IMHO.

Perfectly put. I agree on all points.

 

[Bob Watson]

I like my wife am on the fence. The key for me in this case is linda has not sought publicity or money. 99% of UFO hoaxes are for money. Publicity maybe..
I see no reason for linda to hoax..
Mr meers:
Can you provide a link to any interview with Janet?
Also key is witnesses motivation. Has anyone ever benfited from the case in terms of money or publicly?
This case deserves investigation.

 

[kruggutter]

I like my wife am on the fence. The key for me in this case is linda has not sought publicity or money. 99% of UFO hoaxes are for money. Publicity maybe..
I see no reason for linda to hoax..
Mr meers:
Can you provide a link to any interview with Janet?
Also key is witnesses motivation. Has anyone ever benfited from the case in terms of money or publicly?
This case deserves investigation.

Hi Vesvehighfolk,

Janet Kimball's letter and testimony are documented in Budd Hopkins' book Witnessed: The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions.

In terms of money:

* Budd Hopkins obviously received payment for writing his book Witnessed, as any author does and should given the immense time and work involved.
* Linda received a small unofficial token of that from Budd, as she should because it is her life, case and suffering that he wrote about.
* Janet Kimball received nothing but ridicule from her family regarding the incident and chose not to speak to anyone else about it after Budd. She never
attempted to profit from it in any way.
* Yancy Spence and Robert "Bobby" N. have spoken publicly about the case and made occasional appearances on paranormal podcasts to discuss it, as
have numerous other individuals in the field.
* The other case witnesses of varying degrees have never attempted to profit from it.

Best

Sean

P.S. It should be noted that Linda would have needed money to begin with in order to hoax her case. Paying off over 23 people (if you just include the public
record witnesses) in perpetuity for their services and silence would have necessitated her having at least half a million dollars to begin with, which she didn't
and doesn't, and that's if you figure she only payed them off $20 a week since 1989.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Hi Vesvehighfolk,

Janet Kimball's letter and testimony are documented in Budd Hopkins' book Witnessed: The True Story of the Brooklyn Bridge UFO Abductions.

In terms of money:

* Budd Hopkins obviously received payment for writing his book Witnessed, as any author does and should given the immense time and work involved.
* Linda received a small unofficial token of that from Budd, as she should because it is her life, case and suffering that he wrote about.
* Janet Kimball received nothing but ridicule from her family regarding the incident and chose not to speak to anyone else about it after Budd. She never
attempted to profit from it in any way.
* Yancy Spence and Robert "Bobby" N. have spoken publicly about the case and made occasional appearances on paranormal podcasts to discuss it, as
have numerous other individuals in the field.
* The other case witnesses of varying degrees have never attempted to profit from it.

Best

Sean

P.S. It should be noted that Linda would have needed money to begin with in order to hoax her case. Paying off over 23 people (if you just include the public
record witnesses) in perpetuity for their services and silence would have necessitated her having at least half a million dollars to begin with, which she didn't
and doesn't, and that's if you figure she only payed them off $20 a week since 1989.

She would perhaps need money to pay 23 people. If 23 people existed. Where is the irrefutable proof that these people exist?

 

[kruggutter]

She would perhaps need money to pay 23 people. If 23 people existed. Where is the irrefutable proof that these people exist?

But my mind, in this case, is already made up so it doesn't matter.

You've already indicated that your mind is made up about this. That being the case why should I waste time trying to change your mind?
Why should I go to the effort for someone who ignores, and doesn't bother to read, the documented evidence when it is recommended to them?

I'll answer the questions of those willing to listen and willing to spend time looking into the case.

Peace

Sean

 

[Creepy Green Light]

You've already indicated that your mind is made up about this. That being the case why should I waste time trying to change your mind?

I'll answer the questions of those willing to listen and willing to spend time looking into the case.

Peace

Sean

It is made up. And I am not trying to come off as hostile - I apologize if I sounded that way in the past. But my mind being made up (or not) doesn't devalue my question. Is there or is there not irrefutable proof that these 23 people exist?

 

[Constance]

Creepy Green, what makes you feel you're owed such 'irrefutable proof' in a situation in which most people are, with obviously good reasons, afraid to identify themselves as witnesses to such phenomena? I address this question not just to you but to all followers of the ufo subject who vocalize the same demand (and a great deal of anger and contempt concerning cases such as this one and the people involved) without recognizing how the entire enquiry has been suppressed for the last seven decades.

 

[kruggutter]

It is made up. And I am not trying to come off as hostile - I apologize if I sounded that way in the past. But my mind being made up (or not) doesn't devalue my question. Is there or is there not irrefutable proof that these 23 people exist?

With respect, I'll answer your question.

The only witnesses who Budd Hopkins did not meet in person were Richard and Dan.
That being said, Linda, Linda's husband, her son and her friend Carmela all met and
spoke to Richard in person.

A complete synopsis of the witnesses is detailed below. It includes their relationships to the other witnesses in the case.
These are witnesses on different levels. Some witnessed certain events of Linda's case, others witnessed other events of
Linda's case.

The Witnesses - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

It should be noted that other researchers have met the witnesses. This includes Richard Dolan who met with Yancy Spence
and spoke to Robert "Bobby" N.

Among the 23 public record witnesses are Linda's family, friends of their family and fellow residents of their apartment block.

Some of these witnesses have provided videotaped testimony which is available at Linda's website.

Peace

Sean

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Creepy Green, what makes you feel you're owed such 'irrefutable proof' in a situation in which most people are, with obviously good reasons, afraid to identify themselves as witnesses to such phenomena? I address this question not just to you but to all followers of the ufo subject who vocalize the same demand (and a great deal of anger and contempt concerning cases such as this one and the people involved) without recognizing how the entire enquiry has been suppressed for the last seven decades.

It's boldness derived from sitting behind a computer. If these people were in the same room it would become real and maybe the reactions would be less sure. To me, I can't dismiss abduction with a sweeping hand the way many in the field do. Most of that reason is based on the idea that I do believe there is alien craft hovering about in our sky ways and therefore it's plausible they have made contact with some of us. There are also themes that show up like telepathy as communication that need pursuing to see if it really is true that a large percentage say this. I'd like to know if people from around the world report similar experiences or are they completely different. I haven't done my homework on this issue but I'm not going to weigh in with conclusions I know little about.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Creepy Green, what makes you feel you're owed such 'irrefutable proof' in a situation in which most people are, with obviously good reasons, afraid to identify themselves as witnesses to such phenomena? I address this question not just to you but to all followers of the ufo subject who vocalize the same demand (and a great deal of anger and contempt concerning cases such as this one and the people involved) without recognizing how the entire enquiry has been suppressed for the last seven decades.

Because extraordinary stories demand extraordinary proof. What if a local high school blew up and 20 people came forward with information of what they witnessed (as far as the perpetrators, what they were wearing, how many of them there were, type of vehicle they were seen driving etc.). And when it came time for the police captain to meet the witnesses, the officers have to tell their captain that that's impossible. Any testimony will have to be given to the captain second hand. Or through a video tape with their faces blurred out. Or through mysterious hand written letters sent through the mail. And then be told that all 20 witnesses either want to use aliases, or not be named at all. And not one of them will step forward for a real, one on one interview to shed light on the crime they had witnessed.

None of that makes any sense. What would make sense is that maybe the school never blew up in the first place and maybe none of these 20 witnesses exist? Can't obtain real names, addresses, phone numbers so that they can be cross examined etc.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

With respect, I'll answer your question.

The only witnesses who Budd Hopkins did not meet in person were Richard and Dan.
That being said, Linda, Linda's husband, her son and her friend Carmela all met and
spoke to Richard in person.

A complete synopsis of the witnesses is detailed below. It includes their relationships to the other witnesses in the case.
These are witnesses on different levels. Some witnessed certain events of Linda's case, others witnessed other events of
Linda's case.

The Witnesses - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

It should be noted that other researchers have met the witnesses. This includes Richard Dolan who met with Yancy Spence
and spoke to Robert "Bobby" N.

Among the 23 public record witnesses are Linda's family, friends of their family and fellow residents of their apartment block.

Some of these witnesses have provided videotaped testimony which is available at Linda's website.

Peace

Sean

Thank you. I appreciate the response.

 

[kruggutter]

Thank you. I appreciate the response.

You're welcome.

Peace

Sean

 

[Constance]

Because extraordinary stories demand extraordinary proof. What if a local high school blew up and 20 people came forward with information of what they witnessed (as far as the perpetrators, what they were wearing, how many of them there were, type of vehicle they were seen driving etc.). And when it came time for the police captain to meet the witnesses, the officers have to tell their captain that that's impossible. Any testimony will have to be given to the captain second hand. Or through a video tape with their faces blurred out. Or through mysterious hand written letters sent through the mail. And then be told that all 20 witnesses either want to use aliases, or not be named at all. And not one of them will step forward for a real, one on one interview to shed light on the crime they had witnessed.

None of that makes any sense. What would make sense is that maybe the school never blew up in the first place and maybe none of these 20 witnesses exist? Can't obtain real names, addresses, phone numbers so that they can be cross examined etc.

Your analogy doesn't hold up, Creepy Green. Courts of law and police powers established by civil societies exist with the consent of the governed (that was the original Enlightenment idea anyway). Thus the police and the courts can demand and legally require the cooperation of witnesses to civil crimes and criminal behavior. Contemporary civil laws, here and elsewhere, do not recognize, much less prosecute, crimes such as claimed abductions by anomalous entities. Our society in general, including most people who take the ufo phenomena seriously enough to argue about it on the internet, have accepted this situation for many years. Thus we have no right to expect that our society's police and court powers will obtain for us the answers to questions we ask about events such as the Cortile and other reported abductions. We as a community of interested parties have largely maintained a position of quietism concerning such events and the rights of the apparent victims to protection, pursuit of the abductors, and explanations of what happened to them. We have also failed to act so as to guarantee official recognition of our 'public right' to know the truth about these events. Instead too many of us make demands on intimidated witnesses (in whose intimidation we have ourselves been complicit). This is hardly rational behavior. Let us face facts, that our own government, at many levels, has suppressed public inquiry into these phenomena, and it is no surprise that many individuals who have witnessed them feel that they personally owe us nothing that will bring additional complications and even risk to their lives. Especially given the abuse they can expect to receive even from people who claim to be concerned about the phenomena and who ought to be aware of the circumstances of those witnesses.

.

 

[Constance]

In other words, Creepy Green, your anger and outrage are misplaced.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

In other words, Creepy Green, your anger and outrage are misplaced.

Lol. First off there is no anger or outrage at this point. And you're missing my point. If you or any rational person (that actually exists) witnessed a flying vehicle manufactured somewhere other than earth levitate a woman out of her high rise apartment, along with aliens, into the hovering vehicle, wouldn't you report it with enthusiasm and want to get your eye witness account all over the news & newspapers? After all, you would have been witnessing the most important event that has ever happened in the history of mankind. And besides that, there should be 1000s & 1000s of witnesses. Not 23. It is NYC after all. 23 would be believable if the story took place in Clark, ID.

The Morristown, NJ UFO hoax; nighttime over multiple nights. 911 switchboard was lit up like an Xmas tree, phone calls being made to the airport control tower, every local news network there, eyewitnesses that went on record (videotaped) with their wife and children to enthusiastically describe in detail what they saw and recorded. And all that for lights in the sky over MORRISTOWN. Yet Linda's case involved structured craft, levitations out of apartment windows, aliens, over NEW YORK CITY, and miraculously there's no videos, photos, mass of 911 calls, news outlets, 1000's of witnesses, etc etc. which means there is only one logical conclusion.

 

[Tyger]

I don't experience anger and outrage, and I am a skeptic. I am aware of about three posters on this thread who have expressed doubt as to the reality of the described event - but none of them have expressed anger and outrage imo. Why would they?

There have been questions - that is all. Questions do not translate to anger, nor outrage. Why be outraged? What about this event would be an occasion for outrage? Makes no sense.

 

[Tyger]

Creepy Green, what makes you feel you're owed such 'irrefutable proof'

When someone tells a story, generally they want to be believed. If the story approaches a 'tall tale', then in order to be taken seriously, there needs to be clear evidence. Makes sense to me.

in a situation in which most people are, with obviously good reasons, afraid to identify themselves as witnesses to such phenomena?

I am not aware that anyone needs to be afraid if they have seen such. What are the 'good reasons' to be afraid?

I address this question not just to you but to all followers of the ufo subject who vocalize the same demand (and a great deal of anger and contempt concerning cases such as this one and the people involved)

If you have experienced such that is your experience but I simply have never seen 'a great deal of anger'. Not sure what to make of your claim.

As for contempt, I can see that operating in the face of the hoaxing, of which there is much in this area.

without recognizing how the entire enquiry has been suppressed for the last seven decades.

You want this to believed, I guess, but you will not allow questions because questions become 'anger and contempt'. Can't have it both ways. Suppressed? By who, when and why? Those are questions that need answering.

The accusations of anger and contempt speak to high emotions in themselves. Belief of suppression speaks to powerful emotions. What to make of it all? Why so vested personally in having this event be true?

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

When someone tells a story, generally they want to be believed. If the story approaches a 'tall tale', then in order to be taken seriously, there needs to be clear evidence. Makes sense to me.

I am not aware that anyone needs to be afraid if they have seen such. What are the 'good reasons' to be afraid?

If you have experienced such that is your experience but I simply have never seen 'a great deal of anger'. Not sure what to make of your claim.

As for contempt, I can see that operating in the face of the hoaxing, of which there is much in this area.

You want this to believed, I guess, but you will not allow questions because questions become 'anger and contempt'. Can't have it both ways. Suppressed? By who, when and why? Those are questions that need answering.

The accusations of anger and contempt speak to high emotions in themselves. Belief of suppression speaks to powerful emotions. What to make of it all? Why so vested personally in having this event be true?

There's plenty of the above in the field Tyger. People have expressed disgust, taints the field, fruit loops, whack jobs, attention seekers, god only knows if I took another half hour to think. The fact is there's been a huge dismissal of the subject from prominent thinkers in the field. From podcasts to personal blogs, it's everywhere. The anger is expressed that these abduction people clog the field with garbage and help to keep scientists from engaging the science. The contempt, well that's easy to find.