Chet Sapalio and the 31 January Paracast Show

[drsamisaladin]

Bravo to Mr Biedny and Mr Steinberg for their latest show!

Mr. Sapalio actually sounded more circumspect towards the end of the show about his ET assumptions. I think the civilized manner the two hosts used in confronting him with counter-arguments was quite productive. I definitely enjoyed the second half of the show more than the first. In fact I didn't enjoy the first half, because I am weary of the Roswell story...

I am relatively new to the forums, so I want to ask you all out there if either in the forums or on the audio shows themselves the following facts have been presented to the pro-ET Roswell proponents:

Jesse Marcel went on record saying of the famous photo of debris published in 1947 newspapers, the same photo that the pro-ET Roswell crowd says was a hoaxed or staged photo of a weather balloon, Marcel plainly said that that was not a staged photo, that it was debris from the actual craft that crashed. His very words were: "It was not a staged photo." It was only after people began telling him that the photo was of a weather balloon that he changed his story about the photo.

So with the very first Roswell witness, the stories always conveniently shift when necessary. And several personal claims of Marcel about his professional background have been exposed as false and exaggerated--not to the point of Bob Lazar, but enough to discredit Marcel seriously.

I assume the Paracast members are already aware of these assertions, so I skip the documentation, which is all easily accessible in print and on the Internet.

Just curious to know.

Dr. Sami Saladin
Pisa, Italy

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Hi Dr , Sami Saladin,

Mr Chet Sapalio interview was very interesting and enjoyable. The late Major J Marcel was an officer & gentlemen. Furthermore, a war Veteran. I also think something happened at Roswell in July 1947 too and those men & women being under the military national security act during their service and after (60 years or more). Mind you if you were to disclosure any evidence of the so called UFO crash you were most likely of being arrested for treason and maybe even threatened with being shot during those COLD War times (are we still in one?). In addition, in Western Europe the Cold War was nearing the brink of WW3 with both sides conducting kidnappings of troops and using spy craft warfare operations which was gathering speed. Advance technologies were being experimented with maybe they were from beyond our sky or not who really knows!

Greetings,
blowfish

 

[drsamisaladin]

Dear blowfish,

Thank you for sharing your perspective; I truly appreciate it. It is only that my perspective differs. Major Marcel was of course an officer and a gentleman, but the historical record is undeniable, based on Marcel's own words, that he made exaggerated and untrue claims about his professional qualifications and background. Therefore, while he can be called an officer and a gentleman, he does not qualify as a credible witness. It is also part of the public record that Marcel changed his story about Roswell, not in 1947, but after he had already made public claims asserting that the crash involved an ET craft.

You refer to the Cold War; I would say that that is actually the main clue to solving the real mystery behind Roswell.

Agreeing to disagree, in Peace,

S. Saladin

 

[Kieran]

Dear blowfish,

Thank you for sharing your perspective; I truly appreciate it. It is only that my perspective differs. Major Marcel was of course an officer and a gentleman, but the historical record is undeniable, based on Marcel's own words, that he made exaggerated and untrue claims about his professional qualifications and background. Therefore, while he can be called an officer and a gentleman, he does not qualify as a credible witness. It is also part of the public record that Marcel changed his story about Roswell, not in 1947, but after he had already made public claims asserting that the crash involved an ET craft.

You refer to the Cold War; I would say that that is actually the main clue to solving the real mystery behind Roswell.

Agreeing to disagree, in Peace,

S. Saladin

The UFO phenomenon is something real not imagined. And we have to remember Roswell do significant in UFO lore, This subject doesn't end with Roswell. I'm not sure what happened During the Summer of 1947. However let us get real here; for one the Roswell story has contributions from other sources . Major Marcel story is only part of the story.

The Roswell Army Air force base issued a Press release. Let us not forget this. To paraphrase, we found a flying disc with the help of local ranchers and the Sherriff's office of Chaves county.That is odd don't you think?

That press release was later retracted a day or so later. And a new press was released; which stated it was only a weather balloon. We have had a number of different excuses and explanation's been given since 1947. Mogul been just one. It was classified at the time. Test dummies was given as explanation; this was to explain away certain stories; were it was claimed alien bodies had been seen at the crash site. Dummy explanation has been prove to be a lie. We have perfect example right there; of secrecy.The time line doesn't fit with the historical record.

I do see; how you can have four different explanations for one event. They were certain it was a weather balloon and not a flying disk in 1947. For me; the dummy explanation is the smoking gun. And you don't need be a genius to figure out why that would be the case.

There is many problems with Roswell. I agree totally. Some of the witnesses are not reliable. Jesse Marcel Jr is a credible witness for me at least.

The lighting explanation given for why the UFO crashed. Is a explanation that makes sense. Lighting could have disrupted the UFO's equipment and caused it to Malfunction which led to the crash. It might explain why certain pieces from the disk where found. The energy was so powerful when it hit the disk, it broke pieces or maybe the force from impacting the ground caused pieces of the disk to break away.We've heard a story, were it was claimed when they tried to break a certain piece of the flying Disk with conventional tools. Nothing happened.To be able to break such a metal might require tremendous energy and force.

The interview itself started of well. During the first fifteen minutes or so. It got a bit Rocky, When Chet started talking about the Disclosure Movement and the Exopolitics movement. He seemed to buy into those theories somewhat. Which was troublesome.

The last hour of the interview was fascinating especially the last twenty minutes or so. His own experiences were very interesting. I wanted him to continue, but the show ended and time ran out. A pity. I Hope we can see some of the those Photos. He said he took.

 

[drsamisaladin]

Jesse Marcel was of course only one of many behind the Roswell story, but he was the first, and his shifting stories and unreliability are paradigmatic of subsequent "witnesses."

I do not find it odd that there was a press release in 1947 about a crashed disc being retrieved. This is precisely what America in the Cold War would have wanted the USSR to think--that their arch-foe was in possession of exotic ET technology. The story in itself doesn't prove anything about an ET origin of the disc in question.

Jesse Marcel Jr. is a credible witness, but of what? Of something like hieroglyphics on I-beams. And from that he jumps to the ET hypothesis. He is a credible witness, but his deduction in this context is unwarranted and unsubstantiated.

Unbreakable metal with "memory" properties was already being tested in the States in the 1940s.

Yes, many strange things happened at Roswell, but not a shred of evidence to prove an ET connection.

I will be convinced only by credible evidence, not by an endless chain of tainted hearsay or even firsthand witnesses who nevertheless shift their stories over time.

Once more agreeing to disagree, in Peace,

S. Saladin

 

[gstetphan]

I am in the process of listening to this ep. and it has become abundantly clear to me that the Roswell incident has reached the end of the line. It is more divisive, with more opinions than any other issue in the field of ufoloogy. At this point in history, no new facts are going to come out, with virtually all of the witnesses no longer alive. This leaves room only for new theory and not new evidence. New theories are by definition, subjective in nature, based on interpretation of evidence. There will never be a shortage of theories on Roswell as every researcher interprets the evidence in their own way. However, the liklihood of being able to prove these theories at this point is minimal. So what possible benefit do these offer other than to become a wedge which divides the study of this phenomena?

It is time to put this story to bed, and deal with others that have a hope of being explained. The efforts of these great researchers would be much better utilized in investigating other events.

 

[Trajanus]

I do not find it odd that there was a press release in 1947 about a crashed disc being retrieved. This is precisely what America in the Cold War would have wanted the USSR to think--that their arch-foe was in possession of exotic ET technology.

Then why the quick retraction, and balloon story?

Unbreakable metal with "memory" properties was already being tested in the States in the 1940s.

Where is it now? How did it get there and why wasn't that given as the official explanation long ago?

Yes, many strange things happened at Roswell, but not a shred of evidence to prove an ET connection.

The material was confiscated.

---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

Jesse Marcel went on record saying of the famous photo of debris published in 1947 newspapers, the same photo that the pro-ET Roswell crowd says was a hoaxed or staged photo of a weather balloon, Marcel plainly said that that was not a staged photo, that it was debris from the actual craft that crashed. His very words were: "It was not a staged photo." It was only after people began telling him that the photo was of a weather balloon that he changed his story about the photo.

I don't think that's accurate. This issue was discussed at length on Randle's blog. Marcel said he was photographed with the real debris. But as Rudiak pointed out, he was probably photographed with the real stuff before being photgraphed with the fake stuff. Randle noted he told someone else the stuff in the publicly known pictures wasn't the stuff he found. He was an intelligence officer not a moron who couldn't tell balloon junk from something exotic.

And several personal claims of Marcel about his professional background have been exposed as false and exaggerated--not to the point of Bob Lazar, but enough to discredit Marcel seriously.

Randle addressed this is one of his books. He pointed out that he himself has many more air medals than his record shows. And he concludes that the important thing is that Marcel was who he said he was at the relevant time--a base intelligence officer.

 

[Schuyler]

Just a minor point. Jimmy Carter was not a scientist nor a nuclear physicist. He was a Navy officer who took some non-credit courses that qualified him as a 'nuclear engineer' in the eyes of the Navy. Enlisted personnel who are Machinist Mates, Electronic Technicians, and a couple of other ratings take the same exact courses to become nuclear-rated. Carter often called himself a 'nuclear physicist' in his campaign, but he rather over-stated the case. He graduated from the US Naval Academy and has no advanced degrees. He never actually served on a nuclear submarine. He resigned his commission as a Lieutenant when his father passed away and went back to peanut farming.

The Navy is very insular. People belong to 'communities' such as Subs, Surface Warfare, or Engineering. Carter was an 'unrestricted line officer' in submarines. There is no indication that Carter had any ties to Naval Intelligence. An officer in that line would be considered a Special Duty Officer, a completely different community. So Sapalio is making a great leap here by associating Carter -> Navy -> Intelligence.

 

[Plant Life]

Chet seemed like an honest character. But he mentioned the group The Nine, and my mental alarm went off. The Nine was a CIA psychological operations group that Andrija Puharich was involved with among others. Very dubious to use them as evidence of a person's credulity from what I know about them.

 

[ondafritz]

One thing is for certain. I think I am at the end of my UFO road.
Best wishes everyone! I hope somebody figures this out before too long.

 

[bobheck]

One thing is for certain. I think I am at the end of my UFO road.

What exactly does that mean?

 

[drew hempel]

I'm listening to the interview right now (between the LONG commercials on c2c with Richard Dolan, haha). O.K. so this "Nine" invocation -- should inspire people to read Prince and Picknett's classic expose book on the Nine -- "The Stargate Conspiracy." Over on UFOMystic I've encouraged Nick Redfern and Greg Bishop to read the Stargate Conspiracy off and on for the past several years -- but I don't think they have yet! haha.

Chet seemed like an honest character. But he mentioned the group The Nine, and my mental alarm went off. The Nine was a CIA psychological operations group that Andrija Puharich was involved with among others. Very dubious to use them as evidence of a person's credulity from what I know about them.

 

[drsamisaladin]

Here are Jesse Marcel's own words as quoted in a pro-ET Roswell book, proving that he said the famous photo was not a staged photograph:

"Just after we got to Carswell, Fort Worth, we were told to bring some of this stuff up to the general’s office - that he wanted to take a look at it. We did this and spread it out on the floor on some brown paper. What we had was only a very small portion of the debris there was a whole lot more. There was half a B-29-ful outside. General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to take a picture of this stuff. They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The stuff in that one photo was pieces of the actual stuff we had found. It was not a staged photo." Charles Berlitz and William L. Moore, The Roswell Incident (New York: Grosset & Dunlap, 1980, 75.

As for the military's quick retraction of the story in 1947, as well as for why the government at the time would not have explained the metal as something then being tested, both maneuvers could have served Cold War psychological operations techniques perfectly. Retraction and denial were regularly designed to initiate suspicions in the enemy intelligence community. In this case, they would have served to increase the suspicions among the Soviets that America, the arch-foe, might be in possession of exotic ET technology which could be exploited for weapons technology.

With all due respect to Jesse Marcel Sr, his own official military records from the general time surrounding the Roswell incident state that he had a tendency to exaggerate. He claimed to have a bachelors in Physics, for example, but that is simply not true. He was a gentleman and served his country well, but he was not a credible witness.

There are so many other UFO cases which are more interesting than Roswell. Both sides of the Roswell topic have already been documented, showing that believers will go on believing, ignoring the factual evidence at hand.

S. Saladin

 

[Trajanus]

William L. Moore

If anyone was not reliable it was Moore. He must've twisted Marcel's words to make a buck, or to set up the UFO community for a setback. As Randle noted, Marcel made it clear that what was publicly photographed was NOT what he found.

As for the military's quick retraction of the story in 1947, as well as for why the government at the time would not have explained the metal as something then being tested, both maneuvers could have served Cold War psychological operations techniques perfectly. Retraction and denial were regularly designed to initiate suspicions in the enemy intelligence community. In this case, they would have served to increase the suspicions among the Soviets that America, the arch-foe, might be in possession of exotic ET technology which could be exploited for weapons technology.

It made no sense to do something to intensify Soviet espionage, and efforts to enhance their own arsenal. As for the metal "being tested' then, funny how it never came into general use for 60 years plus. And HOW did it get there? Why put it in a MOGUL balloon?

With all due respect to Jesse Marcel Sr, his own official military records from the general time surrounding the Roswell incident state that he had a tendency to exaggerate.

That claim was made in 1948. By then, they HAD to say it, because of the alleged "exaggeration' of what was found. Such a "tendency" would've been MUCH more impressive if it were noted BEFORE Roswell.

 

[drsamisaladin]

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: memberaction_dropdown --> gstetphan wrote of Roswell: "It is time to put this story to bed. . . ." Amen to that. I say adieu, adieu to this particular thread.

See you elsewhere on the forums.

S. Saladin

 

[Trajanus]

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: memberaction_dropdown --> gstetphan wrote of Roswell: "It is time to put this story to bed. .

Lol, that'll be the day.

 

[Kieran]

Jesse Marcel was of course only one of many behind the Roswell story, but he was the first, and his shifting stories and unreliability are paradigmatic of subsequent "witnesses."

I do not find it odd that there was a press release in 1947 about a crashed disc being retrieved. This is precisely what America in the Cold War would have wanted the USSR to think--that their arch-foe was in possession of exotic ET technology. The story in itself doesn't prove anything about an ET origin of the disc in question.

Jesse Marcel Jr. is a credible witness, but of what? Of something like hieroglyphics on I-beams. And from that he jumps to the ET hypothesis. He is a credible witness, but his deduction in this context is unwarranted and unsubstantiated.

Unbreakable metal with "memory" properties was already being tested in the States in the 1940s.

Yes, many strange things happened at Roswell, but not a shred of evidence to prove an ET connection.

I will be convinced only by credible evidence, not by an endless chain of tainted hearsay or even firsthand witnesses who nevertheless shift their stories over time.

Once more agreeing to disagree, in Peace,

S. Saladin

Look it is obvious to me, the official story doesn't hold water. Firstly; the now famous Photographs of the alleged debris was of an ordinary balloon. Mogul was still a classified programme in 1947. Doesn't make sense they would reveal to the public a classified project, that they were still currently working on. So absolutely what was photographed was the debris of an ordinary balloon.That was a blatant lie to the public. You posted Jesse Marcel snr said; what was photographed was the actual debris. Couldn't have been; if we are to believe the Government. On record they have stated it was the Mogul balloon.

Jesse Marcel snr and other Eyewitnesses said the debris was a type of metal with symbols. There is no metal to be seen when you look at the photographs of the alleged debris.So obviously the photographed debris has no correlation to what people have claimed.Explain to me how One balloon or mogul would account for the widespread debris. The photograph tell me something; You can see it on the floor within the room/ how much space does it take up when it spread along the floor? You can learn something from looking at a photograph. We need to get real; what ever crashed at Roswell wasn't any type of balloon.

But the real mystery centres on the dummy explanation put forward recently. This was to explain away the suggestions of people claiming to have seen small bodies of dead aliens. Am I wrong here; Dummies weren't used to the 1950's, and it obvious to me; it has nothing to do with a total separate project like Mogul. Where they strapping dummies to mogul and letting them of into the air. Silly. That is obviously a rubbish scenario put forward recently.

I'm not sure; it was the crashing of an Et craft. But I certainly don't believe the official line either it was a type of balloon. So why keep it a secret for almost 63 years later. There is nothing that would a remain a secret for that long. There is only on reason to maintain a secret for that long and considering the advances we have achieved since then. It was technology what they found in my opinion. And probably wasn't created by human hands.

Roswell probably has no more to offer us in the form of evidence. However if the Roswell story is true. That changes the complexity of the subject. America as a country obtained foreign technology from an unknown source. And has been looking at this technology for the last 63 years.

UFO technology is advanced technology. We have nothing to compare it to, and more than likely is light years ahead of us. They or whomever is studying the wreckage. Are probably still trying to wrap their minds around, to what they are looking at.

I'm not sure they could have repeated such technology. But I maintain; they whomever who have the disc. They have the unique position; if the Roswell Story is true. To have viewed a craft that came from an undisclosed location and more than likely was manufactured by non humans.,

 

[Trajanus]

But the real mystery centres on the dummy explanation put forward recently.

By now it must be well over a decade old.

This was to explain away the suggestions of people claiming to have seen small bodies of dead aliens. Am I wrong here; Dummies weren't used to the 1950's, and it obvious to me; it has nothing to do with a total separate project like Mogul. Where they strapping dummies to mogul and letting them of into the air. Silly. That is obviously a rubbish scenario put forward recently.

To put it mildy. Not only were the dummies not even in existence in '47, there's no evidence that any of the witnesses EVER saw them--so much for the "time compression" bs.

I'm not sure; it was the crashing of an Et craft. But I certainly don't believe the official line either it was a type of balloon. So why keep it a secret for almost 63 years later.

Honestly it could only have been ET. All the other possibilities, in theory--MOGUL, V-rocket, flying wing etc, were exhaustively investigated and dismissed years ago. And any human technology of '47 would've been declassified decades ago. I've played wargames which accurately simulate the capabilities of modern (in 1973) Soviet and western weapons. It's absurd to think ANY Earthl 1947 gear would still be under wraps.

 

[Kieran]

By now it must be well over a decade old.




To put it mildy. Not only were the dummies not even in existence in '47, there's no evidence that any of the witnesses EVER saw them--so much for the "time compression" bs.



Honestly it could only have been ET. All the other possibilities, in theory--MOGUL, V-rocket, flying wing etc, were exhaustively investigated and dismissed years ago. And any human technology of '47 would've been declassified decades ago. I've played wargames which accurately simulate the capabilities of modern (in 1973) Soviet and western weapons. It's absurd to think ANY Earthl 1947 gear would still be under wraps.

I've only two opinions. My computer acted up there sorry. I not sure it couldn't have been Mogul. The stories from eyewitnesses leads me to form a different conclusion. Mogul was classified so naturally it would have be covered up. But the evidence tells me. Mogul is not likely the explanation for the Roswell event.

 

[Trajanus]

I not sure it couldn't have been Mogul.

Randle, Rudiak and others sure are.

The stories from eyewitnesses leads me to form a different conclusion. Mogul was classified so naturally it would have be covered up. But the evidence tells me. Mogul is not likely the explanation for the Roswell event.

For any balloon explanation to work Marcel and the others involved would've had to be retarded.