Chet Sapalio and the 31 January Paracast Show

[Kieran]

Many classic cases like Colares were outside.



Could they be ETs? Or indigenous to Earth? If the latter, they would've become known to scientists long ago, if ordinary people everywhere knew about them.

I've a believe they were either a powerful seafaring nation of the ancient past that came to Ireland from the Middle east. Or the Tuatha may indeed be a Non/human race that was once indigenous to the planet. I think there is ample evidence and historical evidence to led me to believe that to be true. Look Trajanus; I've read enough for me to confident in what I am saying. Even if seems far fetched to others.

The Tuatha are described in Bible, and other works as been the lost tribe Of Israel. They even have a Mention in the Vedic texts from India. Remember when the Christians burned down the Library at Byzantium. We lost lot of knowledge to the ancient past. Even the Danube river's and Denmark are so called, because of the Tuatha. The wealth of information around this subject is compelling for me at least.

Most European mythologies have descriptions of this Race. That is weird don't you think?

Trajanus; think about it for moment. If all the stories about the Tuatha had no other references points. other then information that is found in Irish mythology. I would more than likely then, have a view it was all nonsense.

Remember also Trajanus,

There has been discoveries; were mysterious and puzzling artifacts have been found around the World. Klaus dona for example; has found plenty of weird objects in his time exploring South America. Scientists have no interest in explaining those objects that don't make sense to our view of the world.
We are descendants of Apes who lived in the ancient past or we were created by God in his own image. That is the majority view.

However, I'm conceived Christianity and the Vatican have destroyed evidence, or is holding vital information from the public. That is not a conspiracy. It happened in the medieval times, when books relating to the universe were destroyed. Many Scholars were put on trial for heresy.

I'm also conceived there was a civilisations that lived on this planet long before the Sumerian culture. That were wiped either out or erased by history or just forgotten. There is too much myths and folklore in every country on this planet to ignore. If I leave aside, my belief there was probably other human civilisations on the planet 20,000 to 10,000 years ago.

I Think we should always keep an open mind. One reason being the UFO phenomenon. We don't know how long this phenomenon has been on the planet for sure. I view it like this.
This observed technology was either build by a mysteries unknown ancient civilisation from the planet's history and is still here hiding out for some reason. However, In Irish mythology.

There was a reason given for why the Tuatha left the surface of the Earth and remain hidden to Humans. My other opinion is, we are been visited by Non humans who arrived in the past from another world. For me both explanations make sense.

 

[Trajanus]

I've a believe they were either a powerful seafaring nation of the ancient past that came to Ireland from the Middle east.

We know of Peoples of the Sea c 1200 BCE, but AFAIK they affected only Egypt and the near east.

Or the Tuatha may indeed be a Non/human race that was once indigenous to the planet. I think there is ample evidence and historical evidence to led me to believe that to be true. Look Trajanus; I've read enough for me to confident in what I am saying. Even if seems far fetched to others.

It's far fetched to me. Had a nonhuman intelligence arisen here, there should be evidence of its evolutionary past in the fossil record. The record may be spotty but it is in places for our ancestry, and there is still conclusive evidence for our evolutionary origins here.

The Tuatha are described in Bible, and other works as been the lost tribe Of Israel. They even have a Mention in the Vedic texts from India. Remember when the Christians burned down the Library at Byzantium.

I thought it was Alexandria. Remember what they said about von daniken. He doesn't credit ancient peoples with any imagination. They all made up stuff.

We are descendants of Apes who lived in the ancient past or we were created by God in his own image. That is the majority view.

The real, proven view is that we are descended from earlier hominids e.g. Homo erectus.

However, I'm conceived

Conceived, or convinced?

Christianity and the Vatican have destroyed evidence, or is holding vital information from the public. That is not a conspiracy. It happened in the medieval times, when books relating to the universe were destroyed. Many Scholars were put on trial for heresy.

But the heliocentric view persisted and won out--why not this too, if it were correct?

 

[Kieran]

We know of Peoples of the Sea c 1200 BCE, but AFAIK they affected only Egypt and the near east.




It's far fetched to me. Had a nonhuman intelligence arisen here, there should be evidence of its evolutionary past in the fossil record. The record may be spotty but it is in places for our ancestry, and there is still conclusive evidence for our evolutionary origins here.



I thought it was Alexandria. Remember what they said about von daniken. He doesn't credit ancient peoples with any imagination. They all made up stuff.



The real, proven view is that we are descended from earlier hominids e.g. Homo erectus.



Conceived, or convinced?



But the heliocentric view persisted and won out--why not this too, if it were correct?

The problem is there has been a discovery of things at Tara in Ireland. Which could only be Egyptian. Tara a bit of history;; is a historical landmark and said to be to be the resting place of the last high kings of Ireland and is considered 6,000 years old. I'm afraid history does not tell us the whole story.

I agree having no fossil record is troublesome. But can't understand why we have so many tales and myths from every culture on earth. If we found such Fossils of non /human race would it be announced or be kept secret. I wonder. We have tales of civilisations destroyed. I wonder could the fossil record have been eroded due to the destruction. I Still remain open minded but take your point on board about the fossil record.

Some historians refer to it as the library of Alexandria and other historians refer to it as the library of Byzantium.

Homo erectus ; Darwin theory is our our earliest ancestors were chimpanzees and gorillas and they originated from Africa. Homo Erectus name came later after finding a humanoid skull on the Island of Java indonesia.

Concieved or convinced Thanks Trajanus;

 

[Trajanus]

The problem is there has been a discovery of things at Tara in Ireland. Which could only be Egyptian. Tara a bit of history;; is a historical landmark and said to be to be the resting place of the last high kings of Ireland and is considered 6,000 years old.

Egyptian They couldn't have gotten that far--unless the items were imported later-- and I don't think historians buy that.

I agree having no fossil record is troublesome. But can't understand why we have so many tales and myths from every culture on earth. If we found such Fossils of non /human race would it be announced or be kept secret. I wonder. We have tales of civilisations destroyed. I wonder could the fossil have been eroded due to the destruction. I Still remain open minded but take your point on board about the fossil record.

No fossils should effectively sink the idea. There are plenty of gaps in dinosaur lineages and all others but still more than enough to prove the existence of evolving lineages. Considering how widespread these beings were supposed to be, an absence of fossils=mythology.

Homo Erectus name came later after finding a humanoid skull on the Island of Java indonesia.

It achieved a wide distribution and is considered closest to our ancestry of all hominids.

 

[Kieran]

Egyptian They couldn't have gotten that far--unless the items were imported later-- and I don't think historians buy that.



No fossils should effectively sink the idea. There are plenty of gaps in dinosaur lineages and all others but still more than enough to prove the existence of evolving lineages. Considering how widespread these beings were supposed to be, an absence of fossils=mythology.



It achieved a wide distribution and is considered closest to our ancestry of all hominids.

The problem is Trajanus, We can't prove what they found in the burial mound came from Egypt. However what they found has never been discovered before in Ireland. In one of the burial tombs excavated in 1955. This is historical fact. You can research this yourself. They found a necklace of amber, jet and faience beads and other weird pottery which looked Egyptian.This items have been carbon dated to 1350 BC. There is a myth of Egyptian princess and her follower's having arrived in Ireland around this time. So it is suggestive not provable.

A shipwrecked boat was also discovered on the Humber Estuary in Northern England in the 1940's. It was carbon dated to 1400 or 1350 BC and it was a design similar to was been used in the Mediterranean during the ERA of the Egyptians. I have more. But I will not bore you.

 

[Schuyler]

There's really no disagreement here. There is plenty of 'room' for other civilizations to have existed prior to the Egyptians & Sumerians and still be consistent with the fossil and DNA records as we know them. No doubt there has been more cross-fertilization of people and cultures than is generally accepted, but that is also changing. When I was in grade school in the fifties we were taught that Columbus 'discovered' America, BUT there was some evidence that the Vikings had gotten here earlier and that was also taught. People who claim otherwise weren't there.

Now that is readily accepted, as are stories of others who also left behind signs. Indeed, it's surprising there wasn't regularly scheduled service to and from continents. Any time you get into a boat and sail the seven seas, you can wind up anywhere. There were doubtless countless trinkets, beads, and artifacts scattered about the globe, but that doesn't equate to permanent far-flung technological civilizations or suggest that Homo sapiens lived on the Earth with dinosaurs.

 

[Kieran]

Schuyler; I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest the Vikings reached America. I think I mentioned this before. Were Ogham a old Celt language was found in locations around America.The Reason the Celt history is so vague is, because they virtually never wrote anything down. They used their memories to pass on thoughts. They history of the Celt's is mainly Oral.

The Vikings also settled and set up home in the British isles. The Vikings mixed with the indigenous cultures of the British isles. And there is also a possibility;..The Vikings may have brought some of those indigenous cultures from the British Isles to America.

I will Accept, we can't prove technological civilisations in the past. But there is lot of strange stories out there that don't make sense. They are very imaginative stories to say the least. The Book of Invasions and the Book of Ballymote, were books that were written by monks in the medieval period of our century. Remember most of the greatest books of the time came from Ireland. The Book of Kells is a perfect example. Those two first books I mentioned were accepted as a accurate depiction of the Irish race. That changed in 1700's, because other historians viewed it has nonsense and there was no historical record to back up the claims of those books. I Believe it was not accepted due to it's supernatural content. AND it's reference's to a number of different mystical and supernatural races who once lived on the planet.

I still think we have to keep an open mind. Since we have an obvious superior technology race of non humans visiting us since 1947. And there is obvious reference to strange things in the past. Vallee I believe was on the right track. I haven't read his books. But I am aware he has compared the UFO phenomenon to fairy lore in the past. When you have two phenomenons that are so similar. We need to wake up and smell the coffee, And view alternative histories differently.


Here is a couple of links that might interest you about the Ogham script found in

America.http://www.viewzone.com/ogham.html
http://www.clannada.org/ogham_alphabet.php

 

[Schuyler]

Schuyler; I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest the Vikings reached America

I hope you understand I was agreeing with that. The evidence is substantial and was known to American school children in the fifties.

 

[Red]

Schuyler;
I still think we have to keep an open mind. Since we have an obvious superior technology race of non humans visiting us since 1947. And there is obvious reference to strange things in the past. Vallee I believe was on the right track. I haven't read his books. But I am aware he has compared the UFO phenomenon to fairy lore in the past. When you have two phenomenons that are so similar. We need to wake up and smell the coffee, And view alternative histories differently.

Having recently read Julian Jaynes book on bicameralism and the evolution of conscious, I am inclined to think that many of the miraculous stories of strange folk and gods recorded by our early ancestors may have been visual and auditory hallucinations with origins in the human brain; a brain that was still in the process of evolving into consciousness. Although I think it is possible that non-humans may have visited, I think it is more probable that these stories came from a bicameral state in which these hallucinations were indistinguishable from physical reality. It doesn't make the reality of these stories any less valid, but the context in which they were created no longer exists in this world.

 

[Kieran]

I hope you understand I was agreeing with that. The evidence is substantial and was known to American school children in the fifties.

I know Schuyler, sorry if you thought I was questioning you. I think there is good evidence; One being there is a strange stone tower to be found in Newport Rhode island. It does look remarkable similar to towers found in Ireland. They were used as watch towers to look for enemies who were approaching their area. And the Kensington Runestone also comes to mind. Also some Indian myths are interesting. Some of those Indian tales tell of contact with humans, who had blue eyes, blonde hair, and beards and pointy helmets.

The only problem I have with those tales. Is from what I know about the Vikings. They pillaged and took lands from other peoples. They were far from friendly. So they must have mellowed out when they reached America

---------- Post added 02-12-2010 at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-11-2010 at 11:48 PM ----------

Having recently read Julian Jaynes book on bicameralism and the evolution of conscious, I am inclined to think that many of the miraculous stories of strange folk and gods recorded by our early ancestors may have been visual and auditory hallucinations with origins in the human brain; a brain that was still in the process of evolving into consciousness. Although I think it is possible that non-humans may have visited, I think it is more probable that these stories came from a bicameral state in which these hallucinations were indistinguishable from physical reality. It doesn't make the reality of these stories any less valid, but the context in which they were created no longer exists in this world.

I guess it's a possibility. However I differ. I might be lonely voice to what I believe Red. I think there must be something controlling UFO'S, and I can't see how our brain would produce such things as UFO's and weird beings, now or in the past. It's a nice theory. But for me personally, It doesn't explain this phenomenon for me.

 

[Red]

I guess it's a possibility. However I differ. I might be lonely voice to what I believe Red. I think there must be something controlling UFO'S, and I can't see how our brain would produce such things as UFO's and weird beings, now or in the past. It's a nice theory. But for me personally, It doesn't explain this phenomenon for me.

It just occurred to me that maybe it wasn't a schizophrenia-like state our early ancestors were experiencing. Perhaps our evolution into consciousness allowed us, for a time, to come into contact with a quantum consciousness or other dimensions, but we lacked the neural hardware to truly understand what we saw or interface with it. Perhaps some of the recent sightings are vestiges of that ability to see past our reality, but we still lack the neural sophistication to truly understand what we are seeing.

 

[Trajanus]

There's really no disagreement here. There is plenty of 'room' for other civilizations to have existed prior to the Egyptians & Sumerians and still be consistent with the fossil and DNA records as we know them.

Depends on how much earlier. A few millennia perhaps--not that there's really good evidence--but eons, no way.

Any time you get into a boat and sail the seven seas, you can wind up anywhere.

Regarding Egyptians reaching Ireland c 1350 BCE, maybe some of their stuff just ended up there via some ancient trading network that extended from the near east through Asia Minor and central/western Europe. Such networks have long existed. Plenty of Roman coins have been found in India and China, where the legions never set foot. I'm, skeptical the Egyptians themselves got to Ireland. After all, the western Mediterranean--to say nothing of the Atlantic--was still a mystery to the Greeks c 900 BCE i.e. after the heyday of ancient Egypt. Look at Homer's writings.

 

[Kieran]

It was untouched burial mound. All this stuff was buried with a young man, and carbon dated to 135O BC. Some of this stuff found, is exactly the same stuff that was found in Tutankhamun's tomb in Egypt. I Guess your suggestion is a possibility and this stuff originated by way of an ancient trading network. But remember most of the Egyptian Pharaohs were said to have had blonde and red hair and some were considered pale with bit of colouring. That is very intriguing for me to say the least. Homer often spoke about the Tribe of Dan, And some scholars have even suggested he may have been an ancestor of the tribe of Dan.

---------- Post added at 01:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 PM ----------

It just occurred to me that maybe it wasn't a schizophrenia-like state our early ancestors were experiencing. Perhaps our evolution into consciousness allowed us, for a time, to come into contact with a quantum consciousness or other dimensions, but we lacked the neural hardware to truly understand what we saw or interface with it. Perhaps some of the recent sightings are vestiges of that ability to see past our reality, but we still lack the neural sophistication to truly understand what we are seeing.

I would believe this is more likely than your previous post. Thanks Red.

 

[Trajanus]

But remember most of the Egyptian Pharaohs were said to have had blonde and red hair and some were considered pale with bit of colouring.

Maybe some had Indo-European ancestry. Blond Aryans invaded India C 1500 BCE and the Hyksos were said to include Indo-European as well as semitic elements.

 

[Kieran]

Maybe some had Indo-European ancestry. Blond Aryans invaded India C 1500 BCE and the Hyksos were said to include Indo-European as well as semitic elements.

Aryan is a term that has been tarnished by the Nazis. Those symbols were used and taken from a cultures who once lived the in Middle East and the Far East. It is mistaken logic by the Nazis, unless they believed there German motherland was Iran. As for blond Aryans having invaded India. That is a myth. Told by the Nazis of all people.

 

[Trajanus]

Aryan is a term that has been tarnished by the Nazis. Those symbols were used and taken from a cultures who once lived the in Middle East and the Far East. It is mistaken logic by the Nazis, unless they believed there German motherland was Iran. As for blond Aryans having invaded India. That is a myth. Told by the Nazis of all people.

I know it was "tarnished" but the term is still considered historically valid. Indo-Europeans originated in the area north of the Caucasus. Scholars divided them into three groups--eastern, middle and western--depending on where they went. The western group included the acheans and italics, the middle group consisted of Hittites and the eastern group is known as the Aryans. I think they were blond just like others from the northern steppes.

 

[Kieran]

I know it was "tarnished" but the term is still considered historically valid. Indo-Europeans originated in the area north of the Caucasus. Scholars divided them into three groups--eastern, middle and western--depending on where they went. The western group included the acheans and italics, the middle group consisted of Hittites and the eastern group is known as the Aryans. I think they were blond just like others from the northern steppes.

No I accept the Indo-European term that is widely accepted. But we have to be careful when we bring up the term Aryan or blonde Aryan. The Swastika for example was also used by the Nazis for the wrong purposes. The Swastika was considered a religious symbol for Good luck. Now it is viewed in another light because of does maniacs.

 

[Xylo]

I'm inclined more on the side of Irishseekers. I believe that there are some things that do not appear on the historical/fossil record which are of the utmost in pertinence to human development.

Why do I believe so? Because many cultures and civilisations as geographically widespread as South America, Ireland, and even Asia share certain similarities...amongst them are the tales of dragons/winged serpents, red-haired light skinned peoples and significant artifacts depicting (in our interpretation) flying disc shaped objects.

One could very well ask: "What happened to the documentation?" If there was any to begin with. My answer would be thus: The destruction of libraries in South America and Alexandria (which I also believe was called Byzantium) destroyed a great deal of knowledge that humankind cannot gain back. What remains are oral traditions, mythologies, and the crude depictions of common man-for the most part.

Further, if there were fossil remains that indicated something further from the truth, those fossils would be unimportant statistically, and thus would be discarded by scientists.

Admittedly I am no scholar. I am primarily skeptical in my thinking-but when I see commonalities between so many different cultures, I am inclined to believe there is a reason for that commonality.

I do not doubt that man is ingenious. I do not doubt that humans in the distant past could create massive edifices and monuments...without any intervention from "gods" or "extraterrestrials."

From here though, I think I'll pretty much stay in the background and read more of these intriguiging posts.

 

[Trajanus]

No I accept the Indo-European term that is widely accepted. But we have to be careful when we bring up the term Aryan or blonde Aryan.

Of course. But at the same time we shouldn't discard the term because of misuse by some people 70 years ago.

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

Why do I believe so? Because many cultures and civilisations as geographically widespread as South America, Ireland, and even Asia share certain similarities...amongst them are the tales of dragons/winged serpents, red-haired light skinned peoples and significant artifacts depicting (in our interpretation) flying disc shaped objects.

OK maybe they all saw UFOs. But just as the cultures of middle America and Egypt both built pyramids independently, they could've invented many of the same myths independently.

One could very well ask: "What happened to the documentation?" If there was any to begin with. My answer would be thus: The destruction of libraries in South America and Alexandria (which I also believe was called Byzantium)

Byzantium was the eastern Roman Empire from the 6th century to the 15th. Alexandria was a city.

destroyed a great deal of knowledge that humankind cannot gain back. What remains are oral traditions, mythologies, and the crude depictions of common man-for the most part.

Why didn't Pliny mention any of it? He seemed to be pretty eclectic.

Further, if there were fossil remains that indicated something further from the truth, those fossils would be unimportant statistically, and thus would be discarded by scientists.

Depending on the circumstances of preservation, they could be very abundant, and SOME should exist if a whole evolving lineage led to some separate intelligence. Very often, scientific views have been modified or discarded based on limited evidence.

I do not doubt that man is ingenious.

I think you meant indigenous.

I do not doubt that humans in the distant past could create massive edifices and monuments...without any intervention from "gods" or "extraterrestrials."

Right.

 

[Schuyler]

Depends on how much earlier. A few millennia perhaps--not that there's really good evidence--but eons, no way.

I never said 'eons,' did I? I said there is plenty of room within the established record for other civilizations to have existed. I use 'civilizations' rather loosely in that I see no evidence for an advanced technological society or one that was spread worldwide. Once you get into the last ice age you start losing ground fast (literally), so I bracket the possibility no more than a few thousand years. If you go any further you start pushing the fossil record. There were groups of Homo sapiens as far back as 160,000 years ago, but they were not in sufficient numbers to do much.

My guess on this (and it is only that), is that there was a window of opportunity between 14,000 and 25,000 years ago when the human population had been established long enough in places like India that civilization could have taken root. Indeed, the Vedic tradition says so as well.

Here's an interesting interactive map that has been posted before in other threads: JOURNEY OF MANKIND - The Peopling of the World Insofar as this map is 'correct,' if anyone is going to postulate previous civilization, they have to fit it into this. Obviously, living contemporaneously with dinosaurs is not an option here.