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Consciousness and the Paranormal — Part 3

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The question was about whether the contents of the mind are arbitrary or whether they are directly related to 3rd person processes.

Regarding fear: the question was whether organisms with similar physiology who experience similar phenomenal fields would experience fear as being uncomfortable.

This question begs the question though: why should similar physiologists led to similar phenomenal fields? (You say you have an issue with phenomenal field, so we can just say experience.)

I'm not saying they are having the same experience, I'm asking if they would.

We could say fear = uncomfortable, but then what about pain? We could say pain = uncomfortable.

You ask me to define fear. Defining emotions without referring to 3rd person events is very hard.

Again, the question is, if experiences are epiphenomenal, why shouldn't they be completely arbitrary. And, are they?

Could humans just as easily see the color red as the color blue and vice versa?

What is it about 3rd person processes that make red, red and blue, blue? Or is there absolutely nothing about 3rd person processes that make red, red and blue, blue?

If experiences are epiphenomenal, then having sex may as well be the most painful, dreadful experience ever (and yes, for some creatures is is, including humans).

I hear you that we want to avoid just so stories. Agreed. And if consciousness is epiphenomenal, then most just so stories relying on what it's like are trash.

But if consciousness is not epiphenomenal, then what it's like might have causal influence and experiences wouldn't be arbitrary.

We would pull out finger away from the hot pan because it hurt. We would run away from the bear because we felt fear.

Of course these "causal" explanations to jive with 3rd person accounts. But why do 1st person accounts seem to mirror 3rd person accounts? Even if we say it's just the narrative mind telling a good story after the fact, that doesn't tell us why the narrative mind would needs do this.

That's why I want to know about fear. Why do we seem to feel fear and want to avoid things that from a 3rd person we could say would be bad?

Two babies, same physiology, get separated from their mothers. Both scream and cry until they are united with their mothers.

What did they subjectively experience? Fear, joy, sadness, proudness, etc? We want to say fear but we currently have no paradigm that would allow us to make that claim nor support it, right?

I'm not sure how you are using the "third person":

Third person or third-person may refer to:
When you say:

Defining emotions without referring to 3rd person events is very hard.

by 3rd person do you just mean the subjective?

If so, then fear is a subjective state - you can't define it without referring to subjective experience, same with happiness, can you imagine being "objectively happy"?? You'd be miserable! So you can define fear as an uncomfortable state! That's the whole point I was making.
 
Post learning about the HP, although I recognize the reality of the explanatory gap, I do not conceive of subjectivity/consciousness as consisting of a dual substance.

What is a substance anyway? Presumably there is physical "stuff" and then mind "stuff" but if the problem of dualism is how do these stuffs interact? then how do we determine one stuff from another? If we can measure mind stuff, then it's physical, if we can't, then it's not really stuff, is it?

On your view, mind and body are made of the same thing ... and the body is capable of experience ... so what is the distinction you draw between the two? Both are pieces of meat, correct? The gut and heart have complicated neural structures, heart brain and gut brain are being studied, right now, in a lab in Wisconsin by serious looking men wearing white coats ... the gut uses more serotonin than the brain, we feel our hunches in our guts and I have read that people pick up the strong electrical signals of the heart from other people and react accordingly, so consciousness could be distributed throughout the body ... therefore:

one substance makes up body = mind = experience = self ....

there, I've simplified your view another step! ;-) you're welcome

And actually, you're still a physicalist - a physicSalist, even:

Comments on Galen Strawson: 'Realistic Monism: Why Physicalism En...: ingentaconnect

Abstract:
Galen Strawson (2006) thinks it is 'obviously' false that 'the terms of physics can fully capture the nature or essence of experience' (p. 4). He also describes this view as 'crazy' (p. 7). I think that he has been carried away by first impressions. It is certainly true that 'physicSalism', as he dubs this view, is strongly counterintuitive. But at the same time there are compelling arguments in its favour. I think that these arguments are sound and that the contrary intuitions are misbegotten. In the first two sections of my remarks I would like to spend a little time defending physicSalism, or 'straightforward' physicalism, as I shall call it ('S' for 'straightforward', if you like). I realize that the main topic of Strawson's paper is panpsychism rather than his rejection of straightforward physicalism. But the latter is relevant as his arguments for panpsychism depend on his rejection of straightforward physicalism, in ways I shall explain below.

... except now you have this phenomenal space floating around some where ... what is it made of ?

dual aspect monism = one substance with two aspects: mental/physical
property dualism = one substance, physical with two properties: mental and physical

The relationship between subjective and objective is special.

Special, how? I see it all over the place ...

As to recursion, at some point I remember you were a reflexive monist or Velmanite. You've been all over the place!
You've latched onto "the body is capable of experience." I think the strongest thing I can say about that is to repeat what Chalmers says: Human bodies are subjects of experience.

That's what I mean re "capable of experience." You seem to interpret it as body = experience.

I do distinguish between the mind and body in the same way I distinguish between subjective and objective. You can see my body but not my mind. I can see my own body and I am my mind. (Have fun with that one.)

Thanks for clarifying the two approaches. There may another difference as well. I think it was noted in the one Jung paper. I'll check.

Reflexive monism is a dual-aspect approach.
 
The question was about whether the contents of the mind are arbitrary or whether they are directly related to 3rd person processes.

Regarding fear: the question was whether organisms with similar physiology who experience similar phenomenal fields would experience fear as being uncomfortable.

This question begs the question though: why should similar physiologists led to similar phenomenal fields? (You say you have an issue with phenomenal field, so we can just say experience.)

I'm not saying they are having the same experience, I'm asking if they would.

We could say fear = uncomfortable, but then what about pain? We could say pain = uncomfortable.

You ask me to define fear. Defining emotions without referring to 3rd person events is very hard.

Again, the question is, if experiences are epiphenomenal, why shouldn't they be completely arbitrary. And, are they?

Could humans just as easily see the color red as the color blue and vice versa?

What is it about 3rd person processes that make red, red and blue, blue? Or is there absolutely nothing about 3rd person processes that make red, red and blue, blue?

If experiences are epiphenomenal, then having sex may as well be the most painful, dreadful experience ever (and yes, for some creatures is is, including humans).

I hear you that we want to avoid just so stories. Agreed. And if consciousness is epiphenomenal, then most just so stories relying on what it's like are trash.

But if consciousness is not epiphenomenal, then what it's like might have causal influence and experiences wouldn't be arbitrary.

We would pull out finger away from the hot pan because it hurt. We would run away from the bear because we felt fear.

Of course these "causal" explanations to jive with 3rd person accounts. But why do 1st person accounts seem to mirror 3rd person accounts? Even if we say it's just the narrative mind telling a good story after the fact, that doesn't tell us why the narrative mind would needs do this.

That's why I want to know about fear. Why do we seem to feel fear and want to avoid things that from a 3rd person we could say would be bad?

Two babies, same physiology, get separated from their mothers. Both scream and cry until they are united with their mothers.

What did they subjectively experience? Fear, joy, sadness, proudness, etc? We want to say fear but we currently have no paradigm that would allow us to make that claim nor support it, right?

The problem with the hot pan and the bear is you already have a physicalist explanation ... if you don't accept zombies, then can you imagine a machine, programmed along traditional lines, not a neural network or anything like a brain - but a computer like I am typing on now but with so much horsepower and speed that it can respond in every situation as a human would? then we would not say the robot runs away because of fear ... that is essentially what the physicalist has a problem with ... the bear is seen, heard and smelled, that is processed and the adrenaline flows, the muscles tighten and the person may well be half turned or even running before he is conscious of why he is turning ... did you listen to the Velman's talk and try his thought experiment in which he claims that we don't know what we want to say until we've said it? We can watch that happen in action ... try it.

So for the physicalist the cause is information processed = bear (in context) = danger ---> response is neurons firing, adrenaline etc ... how many times do we say "before I knew what happened" and any process can be automated, a grandmaster playing speed chess against eight opponents blindfolded simultaneously, how conscious is he? Creative writing - when I write a story I don't know where that next line comes from - I have an intention to sit down and write but I didn't decide to have that intention ... so for a physicalist, the physical has to be a necessary and sufficient cause ... so fear isn't what makes you run frm the bear, its millons of years of evolution wired into your neurons, if anything, you notice it all later ... thats a problem.

And these accounts, third person or whatever, only line up with first person accounts later, we say we pulled our hand away because it was hot ... but we only feel the pain after our hand is jerked back (reflex arc - pain signal hits the spine and jerks the hand back before the pain signal hits the brain ... try it)

BUT

there is always G Gordon Liddy, isn't there?
 
You've latched onto "the body is capable of experience." I think the strongest thing I can say about that is to repeat what Chalmers says: Human bodies are subjects of experience.

That's what I mean re "capable of experience." You seem to interpret it as body = experience.

I do distinguish between the mind and body in the same way I distinguish between subjective and objective. You can see my body but not my mind. I can see my own body and I am my mind. (Have fun with that one.)

Thanks for clarifying the two approaches. There may another difference as well. I think it was noted in the one Jung paper. I'll check.

Reflexive monism is a dual-aspect approach.

What Chalmers says is:
It is undeniable that some organisms are subjects of experience. But the question of how it is that these systems are subjects of experience is perplexing.

What you say is:

"... Soupie's body is experiencing green."

In context:

"The mind is green" is my idiosyncratic way of saying "the mind is experience."
Chalmers says explaining how experience might arise from objective, physical process is a hard problem.
Just above, you quote Chalmers as saying "it's undeniable that some organisms are subjects of experience."
I have no problem with that statement. Here's is how "the mind is green" relates:
body/experience
soupie/green
That is, Soupie's body is experiencing green. Soupie's mind is green.
This mirrors what Chalmers says above about physical bodies being subjects of experience.


So you misquote Chalmers twice:

Human bodies are subjects of experience.
physical bodies being subjects of experience

Chalmers It is undeniable that some organisms are subjects of experience.

... it's confusing!

No, I didn't interpret it as body = experience, here is how I got there:

so consciousness could be distributed throughout the body ... therefore:
one substance makes up body = mind = experience = self ....
there, I've simplified your view another step! ;-) you're welcome


Which is clearly non-water tight logic and I thought I'd left enough clues in the preceding paragraph that you would recognize the humor ... I am going to either have to mark humorous sections as such, or stop making jokes. :-(
 
Thats not a misquote; misunderstanding or misinterpretation perhaps.

I think "organism is subject of experience" is equivalent to "physical body has experiences."

You say theyre not. Why?

No didnt get the joke. Prob something about monism? Youll have to be real clear if you want a response/reaction.
 
Heres an example of researchers mixing objective and subjective phenomena:

How our emotions transform mundane events into strong memories

"Over the past several years, we've been interested in understanding how the brain stores memories for emotionally neutral events that gain significance through subsequent experience. How does the brain store all of this information? And how does emotion strengthen mundane memories?

We remember emotional events best

The study of emotional enhancement of memory largely focuses on how we remember emotionally arousing stimuli or events, like evocative imagery or traumatic events, like 9/11, which is the subject of a long-term study on what affects memory retention.

We take for granted that we remember highly emotional events (like 9/11) better than we remember neutral events, (like that lunch date).

Emotion increases our ability to remember by affecting activity in brain regions involved in emotional processing, particularly the amygdala and striatum, and also the regions involved in encoding new experiences, like the hippocampus. Emotion also increases the strength of our memory over time, a process called consolidation.

Strong emotion can increase memory for positive events, like a surprise birthday party thrown by your closest friends, and for negative events, like making an embarrassing faux pas in front of your boss at the office holiday party."

There is certaininly a physiological component to emotion, but mentally appraising an event as "negative" and the phenomenal experience of embarrasment are subjective.

Objective physiological processes related to high or low arousel can certainly be argued to affect other objective processes related to memory, but again, why such arousel states should correlate with "negative" or "uncomfortable" subjective experiences cannot be explained.
 
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Okay, I finished with the Venn diagram and the commentary. The Venn has been drastically rearranged. I realized the necessity as I was working through the commentary. The commentary is as concise as possible, probably to a fault.
 

Attachments

Thats not a misquote; misunderstanding or misinterpretation perhaps.

I think "organism is subject of experience" is equivalent to "physical body has experiences."

You say theyre not. Why?

No didnt get the joke. Prob something about monism? Youll have to be real clear if you want a response/reaction.

1. It is confusing ... the way you write this about the body experiencing or whatever, I may try to untangle it, but I'm not sure I have the energy!

2. You posted something not too long ago about how other people often react to you in conversation? - I am looking and will re-post it, it may help me communicate with you better in the future. It seems to meyou are often quite literal. In many of my responses, though I am fairly sure I know what you mean, I am pushing you to be very clear because I don't want to make assumptions about what you are saying ... next time I will just ask you to be more clear. It's nothing bad - just an unusual style of thinking and communicating, you've mentioned these differences before - I need to do a better job of taking them into account.

3. You continue though to attribute views to me I don't hold ... I think if I try to be more concrete and literal that will help? Will that help?
 
Thats not a misquote; misunderstanding or misinterpretation perhaps.

I think "organism is subject of experience" is equivalent to "physical body has experiences."

You say theyre not. Why?

No didnt get the joke. Prob something about monism? Youll have to be real clear if you want a response/reaction.

You can't be "real clear" / literal with humor ... generally, it goes over or it doesn't.
 
@Constance ... you posted something about after we (as a species) are gone ... very recently, I'm trying to find that post. I like all of these new ideas and approaches, very refreshing ... I feel like I can breath. It feels like we are doing philosophy!
 
Heres an example of researchers mixing objective and subjective phenomena:

How our emotions transform mundane events into strong memories

"Over the past several years, we've been interested in understanding how the brain stores memories for emotionally neutral events that gain significance through subsequent experience. How does the brain store all of this information? And how does emotion strengthen mundane memories?

We remember emotional events best

The study of emotional enhancement of memory largely focuses on how we remember emotionally arousing stimuli or events, like evocative imagery or traumatic events, like 9/11, which is the subject of a long-term study on what affects memory retention.

We take for granted that we remember highly emotional events (like 9/11) better than we remember neutral events, (like that lunch date).

Emotion increases our ability to remember by affecting activity in brain regions involved in emotional processing, particularly the amygdala and striatum, and also the regions involved in encoding new experiences, like the hippocampus. Emotion also increases the strength of our memory over time, a process called consolidation.

Strong emotion can increase memory for positive events, like a surprise birthday party thrown by your closest friends, and for negative events, like making an embarrassing faux pas in front of your boss at the office holiday party."

There is certaininly a physiological component to emotion, but mentally appraising an event as "negative" and the phenomenal experience of embarrasment are subjective.

Objective physiological processes related to high or low arousel can certainly be argued to affect other objective processes related to memory, but again, why such arousel states should correlate with "negative" or "uncomfortable" subjective experiences cannot be explained.

I remember last night we covered some of these ideas when we discussed Panksepp ... his idea of seven circuits vs. the other up and coming paradigm, more of an interpretation or cognitive approach? It seems there was a female researcher ... I forget the details, but if I remember it overlaps with this current discussion, doesn't it?

It seemed at the time to me that different personalities would have affinities for one or the other interpretation.
 
I remember last night we covered some of these ideas when we discussed Panksepp ... his idea of seven circuits vs. the other up and coming paradigm, more of an interpretation or cognitive approach? It seems there was a female researcher ... I forget the details, but if I remember it overlaps with this current discussion, doesn't it?

It seemed at the time to me that different personalities would have affinities for one or the other interpretation.

I remember that. You and Soupie were still discussing it when we moved over to the forum Pharoah set up on google. As I recall, the woman researcher was a psychologist (her name might have been Barrett?) who wrote in opposition to the reductive neuroscientific propositions postulating seven circuits and seven types of emotion that Panksepp considered as some point. Let's try to track back to those sources, probably in Part 2 of the thread. I also want to search out Panksepp's most recent articles pursuing his (and other's) work in Affective Neuroscience.
 
@Constance ... you posted something about after we (as a species) are gone ... very recently, I'm trying to find that post. I like all of these new ideas and approaches, very refreshing ... I feel like I can breath. It feels like we are doing philosophy!

I think that was related to a philosophy blog by ____ Morton, which you linked over the weekend (and I then added a link to a book of his with an image of a gigantic iceberg on the cover). I'm almost sure my comment came from reading part of that book at amazon, or perhaps browsing in some of his other books there.
 
In line with the effort of Morton and others associated with speculative realism to move philosophy beyond its long human-centeredness, it's important to recognize that this impulse began in the later philosophy of Merleau-Ponty.

". . . The phrase “ontological lateness” is intended to underline the manner in which, for Merleau-Ponty, philosophy limps behind the objects of its inquiry. In other words, that at which philosophical inquiry aims, a conceptual grasp of the world, remains perpetually on its horizon, something to be sought rather than something to be obtained. The articulation of a philosophy of ontological lateness, therefore, is Merleau-Ponty’s attempt, in contrast to what he views to be the traditional understanding of philosophy, to begin to take the ambiguities, obscurities, fragilities and incompleteness of human experience seriously. . . .

What I call “ontological lateness” is characterized by two poles: First, we are ontologically late with respect to the situation in which we find ourselves and of which we are not the privileged authors; in other words, as Merleau-Ponty says, “My life has a significance I do not constitute.” Second and correlatively, having arrived in the world, we find that its sense and significance escape our attempts to put it in our grasp or, in other words, that the world is characterized by a certain inexhaustible transcendence. As ontologically late, then, we find ourselves in the midst of a world of meanings the origin of whichwe cannot trace to a transcendental perspective, and, simultaneously, we find that an exhaustive grip on those meanings is constitutively beyond our reach. Our openness to the world, therefore, is circumscribed by a certain inability insofar as this openness is always attenuated by our immersion in the world and the fact that the world, in concert with our immersion, is always beyond us. As Merleau-Ponty says in the Forward to Phenomenology of Perception, “I am open to the world, I have no doubt that I am in communication with it, but I do not possess it; it is inexhaustible” (PhP, xix), and again at the end of thetext, “The world is already constituted, but never completely constituted; in the first place we are acted upon, in the second we are open to an in
finite number of possibilities” (Ibid., 527). Ontological lateness, then, names Merleau-Ponty’s attempt to articulate a philosophy that gives voice to the manner in which we are confronted with meanings which always remain on the horizon of rationality, that beckon thought and yet escape its grasp."

In Phenomenology of Perception, the articulation of the poles of ontological lateness first emerges in the Forward with Merleau-Ponty’s critique of transcendental idealism, or what he will interchangeably describe as “analytical reflection,” its correlate representationalist epistemology and the problem of solipsism that intractably emerges from such philosophies. In order to further clarify what I mean by “ontological lateness,” it will be useful to briefly consider some of these pages. In his discussion of transcendental idealism, Merleau-Ponty is more concerned with contemporary neo-Cartesians and neo-Kantians than with providing a close reading of Kant or Descartes themselves. For such philosophies, knowledge is conditioned by a Cogito that, as the source and origin of the world’s significance, has “priority over its own operations” and is characterized by a “complete intellectual possession” of the world (Ibid., xi). In other words, for there to be relations among things, for the meaning of the world to stand out in its articulation, there must be a corresponding act of relating, of sense-bestowal. What idealist philosophies mistakenly presuppose is that the movement of that which relates to that which is related is unidirectional, i.e., that the movement of sense bestowal goes only from consciousness toward the world and not the reverse. The result of this presupposition is that, in order to trace out this movement and make it explicit, idealist philosophies return to the subject of experience as its condition of possibility and its antecedent and assume that this subject can be distinguished from experience (Ibid., x). In other words, these philosophies mistakenly construe the return to consciousness as the source of the world as a return to a being which is prior to and independent of that world and in explaining the origin and ordering of experience, cease to take the evidence of experience into account.

The problem with “analytical reflection,” then, is that it privileges the aseity of the subject as the source and origin of all Sinngebung at the expense of the “aseity of things” (PhP, xvii). Merleau-Ponty begins this text with the question “Qu’est-ce que la phénoménologie?” precisely in order to distinguish it from philosophies of analytical reflection and transcendental idealism. Through their commitment to the aseity of the subject, idealist philosophies close themselves up in an “impregnable subjectivity” that “untouched by being and time…[,] loses sight of its own beginning” (PhP, xi). Philosophies that account for the sense of the world through an appeal to the presence of a pure spectator are thus inevitably faced with the problem of solipsism.

For such philosophies, others are merely part of the representation formed by judgments and their constitutive origin is referred back to the spontaneity of consciousness and does not, therefore, indicate a transcendent that is indeed beyond the ordering activity of consciousness. If the world is reduced to the immanence of an all-encompassing synthesis, then others are simply determinations of thought or accomplishments of Sinngebung rather than, as Merleau-Ponty will put it, indicating another “myself” to whom we are addressed. For such philosophies, others “have validity rather than existence” and “there is nothing hidden behind these faces and gestures, no domain to which I have no access, merely a little shadow which owes its very existence to the light” (PhP, xiii). Others are exhausted by synthesis, and since there is nothing beyond its reach, beyond the reach of constitution, there is nothing that is not in its grip since it is the source and origin of the world’s significance. This kind of philosophy, according to Merleau-Ponty, cannot account for others in their alterity because it rids “the world of its opacity and transcendence” (Ibid.). In order to overcome the problem of solipsism, philosophy must be able to account for the manner in which others are not merely part of my representation of the world but escape the grasp of constituting consciousness, i.e., that my encounter with the other is an encounter with one for whom I cannot fully account. To recognize so-called consciousness as ontologically late is to acknowledge that I’ve already found myself immersed in a situation that is not solely of my making, to recognize the “internal weakness” of which Merleau-Ponty speaks that “exposes me to the gaze of others” (Ibid. xiv) and that the syntheses that open the world and make meanings available to me precisely lack the timeliness that would make them all-encompassing and exhaustive.

The result of a philosophy of ontological lateness, then, is an account of the manner in which the world retains its opacity and transcendence by receding from my grasp.To recognize the presence of others and their constitutive opacity is to recognize the aseity of others and things, that there are indeed others there who have, in a sense, preceded me and who cannot be reduced to my constituting activity. I find myself in a situation of which I am not the sole author, and this indicates the first pole of ontological lateness: the impossibility of an absolute perspective, what Merleau-Ponty will describe as the “autochthonous significance of the world” (Ibid., 512). Finding myself among others, I find that I am not the sole origin of the world’s significance and that my constituting activity is circumscribed by my immersion in meanings that have preceded me. The first pole of ontological lateness, then, corresponds with the theme of passivity, or more precisely, as Merleau-Ponty will say in a famous working note of The Visible and the Invisible, the “passivity of activity” and the manifold ways in which all interpretative acts are inscribed within a situation, the origin of which constituting consciousness cannot attribute to itself. To recognize the opacity that others offer us, we must also acknowledge that the world I navigate confronts me with aspects which are characteristically ungraspable—for, in fact, the very presence of others indicates that there are facets over which thinking consciousness can have no hold. This is the second pole of ontological lateness: the centrifugal transcendence of the world. As the first pole corresponds with the theme of passivity, the second pole can be said to correspond with activity insofar as, for Merleau-Ponty, all constituting activity of Sinngebung is structurally unfinalizable and incomplete, for example, when he says that consciousness is “meant for a world which it neither embraces nor possesses, but towards which it is perpetually directed” (Ibid. xx). The meanings that intentional activity brings into articulation escape the grip of rationality and the meanings it navigates. Precisely insofar as it is available as a complex of meaning-accomplishments, the world conceals dimensions and depths which recede beyond us. . . ."

KEITH WHITMOYER
ONTOLOGICAL LATENESS :MERLEAU-PONTY’S META-PHILOSOPHY

I post this extract and link because Whitmoyer's concept of 'ontological lateness' in interpreting MP's philosophy makes clear how phenomenological philosophy in MP's ontological development of it opened the way for OOO and Speculative Realism as well as Constructivism, which is acknowledged by many practitioners of these new directions of thought.
 
Here's some recent writing from Panksepp relevant to our concerns, a review of published research in which Panksepp expresses his objections to the standard neuroscientific narrowness and reductionism of the kinds he hopes to overcome:

The emotional fundamentals of personality and the higher affective polarities of mind: Comment on “Personality from a cognitive-biological perspective” by Y. Neuman
In brain-based personality theory, two things seem certain: i) the evolved functional organization of our subcortical affective mind, and ii) the diverse potentials for developmental programming of our high cognitive minds (i.e., our initially empty – tabula rasa like – neocortical spaces are largely developmentally programed to manifest higher mental abilities). In considering these two global aspects of brain-mind functions, we can be confident that primal subcortical functions (e.g., the capacity for raw emotions/affects, evident in all vertebrate species) evolved. Indeed, ancient creatures such as lamprey eels, with whom we shared ancestry 560 million years ago, still posses most neural systems that are homologous to those that constitute our own primal affective capacities [1]. Considering that primal emotional affects arise from such systems, there appears to be some remarkable continuity in our primal mental origins. The neural foundations of human emotional feelings, long neglected by academic psychology (for lack of empirical accessibility), may contain the rudimentary neuro-affective substrates of personality [2].

Yair Neuman [3] recognizes the potential of the Affective Neuroscience Personality scales (for first version, see Ref. [4]), based on empirically-elucidated subcortical emotional systems (SEEKING, FEAR, RAGE, LUST, CARE, PANIC and PLAY), but not other unconditional affects: We also deemphasized primal homeostatic and sensory affects (e.g., HUNGER, THIRST, DISGUST, TASTE qualities, etc.) as contributing much to the foundations of human personality. To understand the origins of personality, it is critically important to recognize homologous primary-process emotional neuropsychologies of all mammals (processes that are scientifically terribly hard to study in humans!), as well as to appreciate that they control learning and memory formation (secondary processes) that permit hosts of higher (tertiary-process) brain functions, which are best studied in humans. If we focus on primal affects as reflected in diverse human linguistic usages, they can be dimensionalized into global positive and negative affective personality concepts, but those would reflect higher-order tertiary processes, upon which most linguistically-based human psychology is grounded [5], with little possibility of linking those higher concepts to neuro-evolutionary brain processes that will eventually be needed to ground personality theory.

So even as Neuman accepts the power of affective neuroscience in revealing the deep emotional dynamics of our personalities, he sees promise in the utility of two polar higher-order mental functions – “threat/trust” dynamics, which passingly resemble Jeffery Gray's BIS/BAS scales [6]. We suspect that such global simplifications arise from our higher-order conceptual abilities, where there is often a temptation to cluster seemingly related concepts, which may seem computationally more tractable, rather than to stay true to foundational issues that are critically important not only for re-constructing our fundamental nature, but also our ability to learn through neural “Laws of Affect” yet to be elucidated. We doubt that computational approaches can ever be more than simulacra. Although trust/threat remain important in our own lives, so do many other tertiary-level polar constructs such as love/hate, joy/sadness, as well as extraversion/introversion and the ability to feel psychologically strong/weak, to note just a few polarities of human lives.

Why should threat/trust have priority in the endless conceptual dimensions of mind created through learning within the vast culture-enriched RAM-like spaces of human neocortices? Surely the tabula rasa-like “neurocomputational” spaces of our neocortices are not highly specialized by evolution but rather by developmental experiences [7] and [8], yielding higher-order values that can also be expressed as temperamental traits, but perhaps not as decisively as the primal foundations of our emotions: Our neocortical expansions are endowed by the capacities of subcortical valences and arousals, in the contexts of diverse environmental sensory-motor exigencies, to program vast higher brain regions into cognitively complex human minds. But why should “threat/trust”, important as they are (perhaps based on primal social bonding mechanisms such as FEAR and PANIC on the one hand, and CARE and PLAY on the other), have priority over the many other polarities our higher-order mental spaces create with abandon?

References
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Heidegger:
"Phenomenology means... To let that which shows itself be seen from itself in the very way in which it shows itself from itself."
Ohhh! I get it now.
 
Heidegger:
"Phenomenology means... To let that which shows itself be seen from itself in the very way in which it shows itself from itself."
Ohhh! I get it now.

It makes perfect sense in German

Zum letten was showgen itselfigkeitenheit lassen seien beien von itselfigessen dans la veritigkeiten weggen was es showgen von itselfigkeitenheiten lassen machen seien.

Alles klar?
 
It makes perfect sense in German

Zum letten was showgen itselfigkeitenheit lassen seien beien von itselfigessen dans la veritigkeiten weggen was es showgen von itselfigkeitenheiten lassen machen seien.

Alles klar?

Leider nicht. :( There must be other translations available in the Heidegger scholarship in English. I'll look around the house and see if I can locate Kaelin's Being and Time: A Reading for Readers. If this question had come up a half-dozen years ago I could have just called him up and asked him. :(
Anyway, Steve, see what you can find as alternative translations for that phrase ok? I think I understand what Heidegger was trying to express and I'm pretty sure you do too, but it's difficult to come up with a better, clearer, expression of it in English. I think it means taking the phenomenal appearances of things seriously as they present themselves to us in a series of perspectives we can take on them by walking around them, viewing them from a range of perspectives, multiplying our perspectives on a thing both individually and with others. Phenomenology in general does hold that phenomenal appearances of things are our only access to things in the world and that by multiplying our perspectives on them we can and do gain access to things.

The title of Reynaud Barbaras's The Being of the Phenomenon: Merleau-Ponty's Ontology foregrounds the essential condition of consciousness's phenomenal acquaintance with the world -- that we ultimately must recognize that our acquaintance with the world and the others and things in it rests on the interrogation of phenomena, that it is the phenomena whose being we encounter. My impression so far is that Constructivism proceeds from this general recognition.

This extract from the IEP on Sartre identifies the fundamental ways in which Sartre's ideas about the phenomenal nature of our access to 'being' move beyond Husserl and Heidegger. For Heidegger we can obtain access to Being via phenomenal being. Sartre's philosophy departs from Heidegger, pursues the clarification of the relations of being as for-itself and in-itself, and lays groundwork for the development of Merleau-Ponty's phenomenology of being and his phenomenological ontology of being.

". . . How are these two transphenomenal forms of being related? As opposed to a conceptualising consciousness in a relation of knowledge to an object, as in Husserl and the epistemological tradition he inherits, Sartre introduces a relation of being: consciousness (in a pre-reflective form) is directly related to the being of the phenomenon. This is Sartre's version of Heidegger's ontological relation of being-in-the-world. It differs from the latter in two essential respects. First, it is not a practical relation, and thus distinct from a relation to the ready-to-hand. Rather, it is simply given by consciousness. Second, it does not lead to any further question of Being. For Sartre, all there is to being is given in the transphenomenality of existing objects, and there is no further issue of the Being of all beings as for Heidegger.

b. Two Types of Being
As we have seen, both consciousness and the being of the phenomenon transcend the phenomenon of being. As a result, there are two types of being which Sartre, using Hegel's terminology, calls the for-itself ('pour-soi') and the in-itself ('en-soi').

Sartre presents the in-itself as existing without justification independently of the for-itself, and thus constituting an absolute 'plenitude'. It exists in a fully determinate and non-relational way. This fully characterizes its transcendence of the conscious experience. In contrast with the in-itself, the for-itself is mainly characterised by a lack of identity with itself. This is a consequence of the following. Consciousness is always 'of something', and therefore defined in relation to something else. It has no nature beyond this and is thus completely translucent. Insofar as the for-itself always transcends the particular conscious experience (because of the spontaneity of consciousness), any attempt to grasp it within a conscious experience is doomed to failure. Indeed, as we have already seen in the distinction between pre-reflective and reflective consciousness, a conscious grasp of the first transforms it. This means that it is not possible to identify the for-itself, since the most basic form of identification, i.e. with itself, fails. This picture is clearly one in which the problematic region of being is that of the for-itself, and that is what Being and Nothingness will focus upon. But at the same time, another important question arises. Indeed, insofar [as] Sartre has rejected the notion of a grounding of all beings in Being, one may ask how something like a relation of being between consciousness and the world is possible. This issue translates in terms of understanding the meaning of the totality formed by the for-itself and the in-itself and its division into these two regions of being. By addressing this latter issue, Sartre finds the key concept that enables him to investigate the nature of the for-itself. . . . ."


Sartre, Jean Paul: Existentialism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
 
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The last poem published by Wallace Stevens ~~~


Of Mere Being

The palm at the end of the mind,
Beyond the last thought, rises
In the bronze distance.


A gold-feathered bird
Sings in the palm, without human meaning,
Without human feeling, a foreign song.


You know then that it is not the reason
That makes us happy or unhappy.
The bird sings. Its feathers shine.


The palm stands on the edge of space.
The wind moves slowly in the branches.
The bird’s fire-fangled feathers dangle down.
 
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