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Consciousness and the Paranormal

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I've recently come across a paper by Dan Zahavi that I think would have been clarifying for us earlier in this thread. It returns us to Husserl's insights into consciousness and applies them to the ambiguities we still find in Chalmers's continuing writings on the subject. I think that if we read and discuss this paper together it will return us to the plot that drove the thread all along -- the continuing opposition in Consciousness Studies between reductive scientistic approaches to consciousness and those that resist scientism, objectivism, physicalism on the basis of exploring both the phenomenological recognitions concerning the nature of consciousness and the varieties of human experience that for the most part remain outside scientific investigation {the psychic, the mystical, the spiritual, the occult, etc.}. The paper proceeds by challenging Chalmers's primary insistence that it is only the 'hard problem' of consciousness -- the phenomenal qualities [qualia] of experience -- that requires explanation. Zahavi argues that what Chalmers has considered the 'soft problems' represented by consciousness equally challenge scientistic reduction. Here is an extract:

"Chalmers’s discussion of the hard problem has identified and labeled an aspect of consciousness that cannot be ignored. However, his way of defining and distinguishing the hard problem from the easy problems seems in many ways indebted to the very reductionism that he is out to oppose. If one thinks that cognition and intentionality is basically a matter of information processing and causal co-variation that could in principle just as well go on in a mindless computer–or to use Chalmers’ own favored example, in an experienceless zombie–then one is left with the impression that all that is really distinctive about consciousness is its qualitative or phenomenal aspect. But this seems to suggest that with the exception of some evanescent qualia everything about consciousness including intentionality can be explained in reductive (computational or neural) terms; and in this case, epiphenomenalism threatens.

To put it differently, Chalmers’s distinction between the hard and the easy problems of consciousness shares a common feature with many other recent analytical attempts to defend consciousness against the onslaught of reductionism: They all grant far too much to the other side. Reductionism has typically proceeded with a classical divide and rule strategy. There are basically two sides to consciousness: Intentionality and phenomenality. We don’t currently know how to reduce the latter aspect, so let us separate the two sides, and concentrate on the first. If we then succeed in explaining intentionality reductively, the aspect of phenomenality cannot be all that significant. Many non-reductive materialists have uncritically adopted the very same strategy.
They have marginalized subjectivity by identifying it with epiphenomenal qualia and have then claimed that it is this aspect which eludes reductionism. But is this partition really acceptable, are we really dealing with two separate problems, or is experience and intentionality on the contrary intimately connected? Is it really possible to investigate intentionality properly without taking experience, the first-person perspective, semantics, etc., into account? And vice versa, is it possible to understand the nature of subjectivity and experience if we ignore intentionality. Or do we not then run the risk of reinstating a Cartesian subject-world dualism that ignores everything captured by the phrase “being-in-the-world”?

In the following, I wish to consider some arguments in favor of opposing the separation. I will try to supply some answers to the three following questions:

1. What forms of intentionality possess phenomenal features?
2. Do all experiences possess intentional features?
3. If the intentional and the phenomenal go hand in hand, is the connection then contingent or essential?

All of the three questions call for quite substantial analyses. All I can do in the following is to provide some preliminary reflections; reflections that will incidentally suggest that analytical philosophy in its dealing with these questions might profit from looking at some of the resources found in continental phenomenology. Why? Because many of the problems and questions that analytical philosophy of mind is currently facing are problems and questions that phenomenologists have been struggling with for more than a century.Drawing on their results would not only help avoiding unnecessary repetitions, it might also bring the contemporary debate to a higher level of sophistication.

1. Is there a ‘what it is like’ to intentional consciousness?

It is relatively uncontroversial that there is a certain (phenomenal) quality of ‘what it is like’ or what it ‘feels’ like to have perceptual experiences, desires, feelings, and moods. There is something it is like to taste an omelette, to touch an ice cube, to crave chocolate, to have stage fright, to feel envious, nervous, depressed, or happy.
However, is it really acceptable to limit the phenomenal dimension of experience to sensory or emotional states alone? Is there nothing it is like simply to think of (rather than perceive) a green apple? And what about abstract beliefs, is there nothing it is like to believe that the square root of 9 ‘ 3? Many contemporary philosophers have denied that beliefs are inherently phenomenal (cf. Tye, 1995, 138, Jacob, 1998,O’Shaughnessy, 2000, 39, 41). I think they are mistaken.

Back in the Logical Investigations (1900-01) Husserl argued that conscious thoughts have experiential qualities, and that episodes of conscious thoughts are experiential episodes. In arguing for this claim, Husserl drew some distinctions that I think are of relevance in this context. According to Husserl, every intentional experience possesses two different, but inseparable moments. Every intentional experience is an experience of a specific type, be it an experience of judging, hoping, desiring, regretting, remembering, affirming, doubting, wondering, fearing, etc. Husserl called this aspect of the experience, the intentional quality of the experience. Every intentional experience is also directed at something, is also about something, be it an experience of a deer, a cat, or a mathematic state of affairs. Husserl called the component that specifies what the experience is about, the intentional matter of the experience (Husserl, 1984, 425-426). Needless to say, the same quality can be combined with different matters, and the same matter can be combined with different qualities. It is possible to doubt that ‘the inflation will continue’, doubt that ‘the election was fair’, or doubt that ‘one’s next book will be an international bestseller’, just as it is possible to deny that ‘the lily is white’, to judge that ‘the lily is white’, or to question whether ‘the lily is white’. Husserl’s distinction between the intentional matter and the intentional quality consequently bears a certain resemblance to the contemporary distinction between propositional content and propositional attitudes (though it is important to emphasize that Husserl by no means took all intentional experiences to be propositional in nature). But, and this is of course the central point, Husserl considered these cognitive differences to be experiential differences. Each of the different intentional qualities has its own phenomenal character. There is an experiential difference between affirming and denying that Hegel was the greatest of the German idealists, just as there is an experiential difference between expecting and doubting that Denmark will win the 2002 FIFAWorld Cup. What it is like to be in one type of intentional state differs from what it is like to be in another type of intentional state.[2] Similarly, the different intentional matters each have their own phenomenal character. There is an experiential difference between believing that ‘thoughts without content are empty’ and believing that ‘intuitions without concepts are blind’, just as there is an experiential difference between denying that ‘the Eiffel Tower is higher than the Empire State building’ and denying that ‘North Korea has a viable economy’. To put it differently, a change in the intentional matter will entail a change in what it is like to undergo the experience in question.[3] And these experiential differences, these differences in what it is like to think different thoughts, are not simply sensory differences.[4]

In the same work, Husserl also called attention to the fact that one and the same object can be given in a variety of different modes. This is not only the case for spatiotemporal objects (one and the same tree can be given from this or that perspective, as perceived or recollected etc.), but also for ideal or categorial objects. There is an experiential difference between thinking of the theorem of Pythagoras in an empty and signitive manner, i.e., without really understanding it, and doing so in an intuitive and fulfilled manner, i.e., by actually thinking it through with comprehension (Husserl, 1984, 73, 667-676). In fact, as Husserl points out, our understanding of signs and verbal expressions can illustrate these differences especially vividly: “Let us imagine that certain arabesques or figures have at first affected us merely aesthetically, and that we then suddenly realize that we are dealing with symbols or verbal signs. In what does this difference consist? Or let us take the case of a man attentively hearing some totally strange word as a sound-complex without even dreaming it is a word, and compare this with the case of the same man afterwards hearing the word, in the course of conversation, and now acquainted with its meaning, but not illustrating it intuitively. What in general is the surplus element distinguishing the understanding of a symbolically functioning expression from the uncomprehended verbal sound? What is the difference between simply looking at a concrete object A, and treating it as a representative of ‘any A whatsoever’? In this and countless similar cases it is the act-characters that differ.”(Husserl, 1984, 398).

More recently, Galen Strawson has argued in a similar fashion, and in his book Mental Reality he provides the following neat example. . . ."


http://cfs.ku.dk/staff/zahavi-publications/intentionality-experience.pdf/
 
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I also heartily recommend the following article by the British philosopher Roger Scruton as an illuminating supplement to the Zahavi paper above. It's entitled "Scientism in the Arts and Humanities" and makes vivid what is at stake in the contemporary spell that scientistic reductionism has cast in academic disciplines that science (including information science) cannot begin to address.

Scientism in the Arts and Humanities - The New Atlantis
 
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Here is the second part - or second day - of the above linked video - in two parts with both speakers - adding up to about 4 hours total of viewing time (6 hours with the above linked video - a considerable time investment) - but well worth the listen, I think - especially when - in the above video at the end - they go into Kant - and give the intellectual context for the thinking of these two. As mentioned by McDermott - Jung bowed to the limitations of the Kantian view of knowledge, Steiner (as an esoteric teacher) did not, with the result that it is Jung one may bring to the dinner party, not Steiner.

In this next video, McDermott outlines some of the elements of esoteric human history.

Carl G.Jung and Rudolf Steiner 11-3-12 a, Robert McDermott

Carl G. Jung and Rudolf Steiner 11-3-12 b, Sean Kelly and Robert McDermott

Ok - downloading the last part ... enjoyed part two - McDermott on Steiner ... in one of these, maybe the Q&A of video two, I think it's Kelly who said something about the subconcious having a "subject"? Did you catch that? I'll try to find the time on that if I can.
 
Ok - downloading the last part ... enjoyed part two - McDermott on Steiner ... in one of these, maybe the Q&A of video two, I think it's Kelly who said something about the subconcious having a "subject"? Did you catch that? I'll try to find the time on that if I can.

Will be very, very, very interested in what you make of it all, Steve. :)

I have often considered - if I had the time and some mad money to spend - attending the California Institute of Integral Studies - where Robert McDermott teaches: Robert McDermott

You might find the following interview interesting where he discusses 'The Philosophy of Freedom' in relation to what Steiner was doing in the historical context of Kant's limits to knowledge, limits to certitude - as Steiner saw Kant. Steiner was after the free thought and the free deed - but McDermott is the one to hear it from.....

 
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"Consciousness holds it all," McDermott says at the very end of this video - which I'm re-posting because I find it so relevant given the context he is giving in a philosophic sense. What I think people don't realize is how much unconscious philosophies govern the 'permissions' we give ourselves to think in various ways. Those who deny 'deity' for example are able to think this way because of an underlying philosophy.

The whole of this interview I find interesting and at many points he gives fascinating insights, but at between 20:00 and 25:00 (missed the exact timing - oops! got it - 23:45) he starts to expound in a specific way regarding the CIIS focus on Jung, Whitehead, Chardin and Steiner.

 
"Consciousness holds it all," McDermott says at the very end of this video - which I'm re-posting because I find it so relevant given the context he is giving in a philosophic sense. What I think people don't realize is how much unconscious philosophies govern the 'permissions' we give ourselves to think in various ways. Those who deny 'deity' for example are able to think this way because of an underlying philosophy.

The whole of this interview I find interesting and at many points he gives fascinating insights, but at between 20:00 and 25:00 (missed the exact timing - oops! got it - 23:45) he starts to expound in a specific way regarding the CIIS focus on Jung, Whitehead, Chardin and Steiner.


copying this - I have several long drives this weekend, so should have time to listen to it and the last part of the video you posted above
 
copying this - I have several long drives this weekend, so should have time to listen to it and the last part of the video you posted above

I hope you listen to it all. It's all good.

BTW - what are your thoughts regarding the other McDermott videos? When you have time to say, please do. :)
 
I like this. Not far from from the deep work in esoteric occultism - that we are not a completed being - we are actually creating ourselves. This is profound: "Wherever thou art, thou dost assemble thyself, and in assembling thyself, thou dost assemble ME" - from 'The Cloud of Unknowing'. One of my favorite quotes.

I had heard of Steiner before, but I wasn't familiar with his work or philosophies. However, I agree completely with the following:

Rudolf Steiner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Steiner postulates that the world is essentially an indivisible unity, but that our consciousness divides it into the sense-perceptible appearance, on the one hand, and the formal nature accessible to our thinking, on the other. ...

Steiner affirms Darwin's and Haeckel's evolutionary perspectives but extended this beyond its materialistic consequences; he sees human consciousness, indeed, all human culture, as a product of natural evolution that transcends itself. For Steiner, nature becomes self-conscious in the human being. Steiner's description of the nature of human consciousness thus closely parallels that of Solovyov:[90]
Somewhere in this thread, @smcder and I were talking about materialism, meaning, and mind, and I tried to express the idea that while the mind is ultimately material in nature, it's capabilities are endless. The above concept is what I had in mind.

The mind may be natural in constitution, but it transcends the nature from which it sprang!

This also, again, ties in -- I think -- with Damasio's and Peterson's ideas (and many, many others of course) with the idea of the creative, narrative-forming nature of humans.

I'm not well-versed at all in Steiner's philosophies, but I've seen @Tyger speak about (and one of the speakers he linked to) the idea that humans are the latest organisms/objects to achieve this ability. While this may be the case, my thought is that there may be a plethora of organisms in our universe (or reality) that are able to create meaning. Of course, since we're unable to objectively show that such organisms exist, it's just speculation for now. So far as we I know, humans are the only organisms with this ability, but I suspect that there are many others.

This also relates to what I was saying a few posts back about "meaning" not existing eternally (that is, independent of the mind) but only existing in relation to mind. Meaning is a creation of minds; without minds, there is no meaning.

This does not mean (heh) there is no meaning; since I have a mind, there is meaning. And since I believe there are other, non-human minds, I believe there is other, non-human meaning.
 
I hope you listen to it all. It's all good.

BTW - what are your thoughts regarding the other McDermott videos? When you have time to say, please do. :)

I'm listening to the third in the McDermott / Kelly lectures - they are at the Q and A - Kelly talked about the unity/self/ divinity archetype - I also downloaded the McDermott interview you just posted. hope to finish everything soon.

McDermott is talking about the Philosophy of Freedom - the free idea and free act, in accordance with ones karma or true self ...

I wish McDermott talked more about Steiners esoteric knowledge, he veers away from this emphasizing the practical accomplishments - biodynamics, medicine, education etc - he just says the visionary writings are a "challenge " but doesn't say much else
 
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I recently listened to the Paracast episode with @Christopher O'Brien and David:

March 30, 2013 — “Stalking the Herd” Special with David Perkins | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

At the end, David shares that he has been doing some thinking in regards to the (original) Gaia Hypothesis, the idea that the Earth's biosphere is a sentient being. It is a fascinating idea, and one that I kick around a lot. In fact, this was in my mind when I was thinking about how we determine if an object/organism is conscious or not: movement and communication.

If the Earth system is sentient, why hasn't it communicated with us?

However, is it possible that it has and does communicate with us? Maybe we just can't understand it. Maybe it speaks a different language then us. Maybe it can only communicate indirectly with us; what we might perceive as urges or synchronicities, etc.

One of the things I've wondered about is, if the Earth system is conscious, what is the mechanism that is correlates to the neural net? If the object can "think" there must be a neural pathway.

Well, perhaps humans are the neurons. We are part of the biosphere after all. David mentioned memes. What are memes?

Maybe memes are nothing more than the Earth's thoughts. These thoughts propagate among humans in much the same way that thought propagate through the neurons of a human brain.

David and Chris talked about the idea that many of these thoughts/memes may be related to getting Life off-planet. That's an interesting thought, but I want to spend more time thinking about this idea of memes as Earth-thought.

Of course this ties in with the (Steinerian) idea of mind as nature transcending itself. Neurons sprang out of nature, and mind sprang out of neurons.

Nature > Life > Complex Life > Mind > Gaia (uber complex life) > Gaian Mind (Uber complex mind)

However, humans can't really communicate with our own neurons; could Gaia communicate directly with her neurons (humans)?

How might all of this relate to the paranormal? Consciousness? And even UFOs? Are they here to visit us, or might they be here to visit Gaia? Or are they Gaia?
 
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This also ties in with the concept that just as individual humans are weaving a subjective narrative, so too is the entire human race weaving a "subjective" narrative, a common sense. But who or what is the subject?

As individual humans, we can't be the Subject; the collective human race is the subject, so we can only partake in a small fraction of the collective experience.

But it's more than just the human race, it's all of Life. In this sense, Gaia is the Subject. She alone experiences - in a unified manner - the collective individual subjective experiences of all Earth Life, just as we experience in a unified manner (the mental-self) the collective experience of all the cells of our body-self.

Just as humans can become infected with viruses or be afflicted with pathology of thinking, one wonders if Gaia can as well? Are humans a virus with which Gaia is infected?

Or is Gaia experiencing mental illness by way of the conflicting memes of Earth (human) life?

(Perhaps our solar system was once flourishing with living planets which have since succombed to old age and disease? I don't believe that, but it's a fun thought.)
 
I was at a conference recently, and the presenter was talking about always having a phenomenological approach to interacting with people. That is, reality is as we individually, subjectively perceive it. One must keep this in mind whenever interacting with fellow humans.

The presenter was showing some artwork by humans that can provide insight into their phenomenology. What we draw - to an extent - is a mirror of how we perceive the world.

It struck me that all human art, therefore, is from a first person perspective. Everything we experience is first person. Thus our artwork is first person. Even OBEs - so far as I know - are first person.

This may relate to @Michael Allen line of thought, but where is the 3rd person perspective artwork? I did a google search and came up with nothing. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but it's something I've been pondering for awhile.

It's one thing to me that points to duality of mind/object being untrue. Mind is an object. It is a stream of experiences.

Has anyone ever described a 3rd person perspective experience? Is this the experience had with visionary plants? Is becoming one with the cosmos equivalent with losing the first person perspective?

Can an all-knowing, all-seeing entity weave a (first person) narrative at all? If one were to experience all at once - including time - there could be no narrative.
 
I'm not well-versed at all in Steiner's philosophies, but I've seen @Tyger speak about (and one of the speakers he linked to) the idea that humans are the latest organisms/objects to achieve this ability. While this may be the case, my thought is that there may be a plethora of organisms in our universe (or reality) that are able to create meaning. Of course, since we're unable to objectively show that such organisms exist, it's just speculation for now. So far as we I know, humans are the only organisms with this ability, but I suspect that there are many others.

This also relates to what I was saying a few posts back about "meaning" not existing eternally (that is, independent of the mind) but only existing in relation to mind. Meaning is a creation of minds; without minds, there is no meaning.

This does not mean (heh) there is no meaning; since I have a mind, there is meaning. And since I believe there are other, non-human minds, I believe there is other, non-human meaning.

Some of what you are saying vis-a-vis meaning reminded me of the old question: if a tree falls in the forest....... If there is no mind present, is there no meaning? Hmmmm.......:cool:
 
I'm listening to the third in the McDermott / Kelly lectures - they are at the Q and A - Kelly talked about the unity/self/ divinity archetype - I also downloaded the McDermott interview you just posted. hope to finish everything soon.

McDermott is talking about the Philosophy of Freedom - the free idea and free act, in accordance with ones karma or true self ...

I wish McDermott talked more about Steiners esoteric knowledge, he veers away from this emphasizing the practical accomplishments - biodynamics, medicine, education etc - he just says the visionary writings are a "challenge " but doesn't say much else.

In this video, the introductory remarks - about 4 minutes long - give an excellent overview of McDermott's academic career and intellectual biography. I haven't listened to this whole video. I am only linking it for the intro bio of 4 minutes.

(However, one interesting comment at about 16:00: "Why do we need metaphysics? There is a great line from [...] about not every person needs religion but every culture does - well, not every person needs metaphysics, but every culture does, and every culture has one, and really every person does as well (however 'malnourished' ) [....] Common sense is not really adequate because it doesn't get one 'out of the box'....." )


Here is his "New Essential Steiner: An Introduction to Rudolf Steiner for the 21st Century" by
Rudolf Steiner (Author), Robert A. McDermott (Editor)

Steiner is a seminal thinker who has not been given adequate 'play time' - McDermott is the one with the ability to explain why that is so. It is also changing. I agree with the bolded -

Amazon Review: "Robert McDermott's introduction is clear and appealing. He examines why Steiner is still so little known despite being one of the most advanced thinkers of our age, commenting that too many of his "followers" put Steiner against modern thinkers and movements - a place Steiner would have shuddered to have found himself. He states: "Despite obstacles to the spread of Steiner's ideas and their influence, there is increasing evidence that they have become more familiar and received more credit than they did a generation ago. It is no longer unusual to observe academics and seekers acknowledging that Steiner's innovations such as Waldorf Education, biodynamic agriculture, anthroposophically extended medicine, and anthroposophic arts represent significant contributions to contemporary thought and culture."
McDermott give a clear and compelling introduction to Steiner making clear who he was and what his work was about. He then presents Steiner's work as having 12 distinct branches:
1. Philosophy: Self and World
2. Evolution: Cosmic and Human
3. Anthropos: Body, Soul and Spirit
4. Spiritual intelligence
5. Christ and other exalted beings
6. Reincarnation, Karma and the dead
7. Arts
8. Society
9. Education
10. Psychology
11. Health and Healing
12. Gaia and the Future
In each section McDermot gives a very interesting overview of the field and then presents Steiner's writing about that field. These articles are newly translated with gender references removed, making them much more available to modern readership, and with excellent references and referrals for where else to read more.
As a person who has read Steiner for many years and teaches in Waldorf Education, I found this book a tremendous help in putting areas of his work in relation to one another and to modern scientific thinking. I found the book incredibly interesting, quotable, refreshing, stimulating. It is a book I would highly recommend both to enquirers about Steiner and Anthroposophy and to those very familiar with it as a way to help introduce others, to sharpen their own understanding and to gain an overview of the depth and breadth of Steiner's contribution to the world."


McDermott's work is really linking Eastern and Western thought, so his "The Essential Aurobindo: Writings of Sri Aurobindo" by Robert A. McDermott (Author), Sri Aurobindo (Author) is important, as the following review encapsulates.

Amazon Review (well worth quoting in full): "In his numerous and enlightening writings, Sri Aurobindo presents one of the most significant metaphysical interpretations concerning the nature of existence, as well as the purpose of matter, life, mind, and spirit. For Aurobindo, existence unfolds by a perpetuating and inevitable evolution towards the complete fulfillment of spirit and soul, whereby the mind of man is an intermediate step by which the all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-present bliss that is the universe can eventually recognize itself in spirit.

Aurobindo has a particularly fascinating elucidation on the process of natural evolution. In his estimation, evolution is the instrument by which the infinite oneness (Aurobindo uses many terms - though in vain - to capture what he admits is ineffable) unveils itself. In this sense, the process by which matter became life, life became animals, and animals became man, was a natural process not aimless but inevitable. For if matter manifested life, matter (or the material reality) must have inherently involved life even before its fruition. In this sense, life, mind, and the future states of the supramental and spiritual revelation are not spontaneously created by a blind universe, but instead are consciously liberated over time. In his words matter and life, mind and spirit, are not created anew but are already existent - but merely manifested by the Spirit in a process of "bringing out of what already existed in suppressed fact or in eternal potentiality." (72) There is purpose and direction.

Evolution gradually advances the material reality into recognition of its spiritual bliss, and only by the evolution up to, through, and past the human mind (well, theoretically any 'mental' organism/being will do) will this recognition exist. Accordingly, our lives are fraught with meaning and purpose. Our purpose is to recognize the all-blissful spirit that IS 'us' and 'everything', by advancing our consciousness past (but not by denying entirely) vital and mental concerns towards the spiritual realm. Hence we will facilitate the continual process of evolution towards the descent of the 'supramental' - the stage 'above mind' by which man and the universe can wax ever more conscious of the ineffable bliss and spirit that constitutes "being". Man IS special indeed - Aurobindo even designates him as the Spirit's "highest vehicle" for evolution to date. Having said that, he is merely an instrument of the divine spirit, and he is not more or less important than, nor more and less separate from any other component or material force that precedes and follows his existence. Thus he should not regard his special place as an invitation towards egoism and pride, for he and his mind had always existed and will always exist in 'eternal potentiality,' and his place is hence shared with all, while all shares its omnipresent place with him.

Before reading Aurobindo, I had really only been familiar with University professors and western philosophers. According to the conventional thoughts of this milieu - perhaps best encapsulated in Camus' "Myth of Sisyphus" - existence in the material is not only temporary but also meaningless. Body and mind are but interchangeable and mundane forms of matter, and 'conceiving' the soul is an action of a schizophrenic mind creating an imaginary friend of sorts to console the restlessness of his purposeless existence. Aurobindo's words, however, seek to "thin the wall between soul and matter." (195)

Some eastern belief systems posit reality that isn't much more cheerful - including the Buddhist conception (depending on how one interprets it) that existence in the material realm may be eternal and one may indeed have a soul, but it still lacks purpose in that it is subjected to a perpetual and unwilling participation in an endless cycle of natural processes. While rebirth is hypothetically preferable to a one-shot deal, existence is still meaningless - and therefore the goal is to escape the cycle in itself (Nirvana). From these beliefs and others, Aurobindo provides an alternative answer.

While Aurobindo subscribes to a monistic conceptualization of being, he posits a refined variation on this interpretation. In evaluating the idea of resurrection of the soul in his essay "Philosophy of Rebirth," Aurobindo claims that conventional monisms - e.g. Vedantics and Upanishads - contend the universe is one, and that matter ebbs and flows from this oneness like waves from the sea. But as Aurobindo astutely points out, if this is the case, rebirth of the soul is either temporary, illusory, or unnecessary. There is no reason for it. Why is there matter at all, why can't the eternal oneness just be in itself? Why is there manifestation of its reality at all? The sea does not need waves.

This is where Aurobindo demarcates his spiritual belief about Nature and Spirit most compellingly. Unlike the Vedantics or Buddhists who exalt the spiritual realm while subsequently derogating the material realm that often obscures it, Aurobindo argues that these two domains are one and the same - inevitably interdependent for manifestation and consciousness - hence Integral Yoga. The sea NEEDS waves. The material world is the infinite divine manifesting itself in a perpetual process of unfolding its blissful being, and it strives for consciousness of itself through evolution from matter to life to mind to supramental to ubiquitous consciousness of the SPIRIT. It can not do so in infinity - it trips over its own legs in the endlessness of space and time. Hence it concentrates spirit in the finite of matter, life, mind, and supermind/spirit.

These are some of the many fascinating ideas that Aurobindo introduces in his many essays. He presents many valuable insights on the role of religion in its interpretation of Spirit, as well as the dichotomy of the material world / spiritual world (a dichotomy Aurobindo insists is inaccurate) and how western and eastern thought treat this traditional opposition. Perhaps his most impressive quality is his profound and complete understanding of interpretations other than his own, educed by his discussion on western and eastern philosophical and religious traditions.

While Aurobindo's ideas in themselves are captivating, his articulation of those ideas are equally impressive. As his second (some might even argue his third) language, his command of English and mastery of lingual exposition matches that of Conrad. An exquisite writer, he articulates his sophisticated metaphysics with elegant prose and quite coherent explication. Quite simply, he is an exquisite writer and an absolutely brilliant thinker. I highly recommend this book. I have found it to be the most rewarding collection of words to explain to me the nature of the universe and my place in it as a human."
 
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I recently listened to the Paracast episode with @Christopher O'Brien and David:

March 30, 2013 — “Stalking the Herd” Special with David Perkins | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

At the end, David shares that he has been doing some thinking in regards to the (original) Gaia Hypothesis, the idea that the Earth's biosphere is a sentient being. It is a fascinating idea, and one that I kick around a lot. In fact, this was in my mind when I was thinking about how we determine if an object/organism is conscious or not: movement and communication.

And not new - 'that in which we move and live and have our being'.

If the Earth system is sentient, why hasn't it communicated with us?

If we are sentient, why haven't we 'communicated' with our cells? perhaps we do but in a very different way - by the kinds of foods we give our body, by the environments we choose, etc.

We always assume that the scale will be 'like us'.

However, is it possible that it has and does communicate with us? Maybe we just can't understand it. Maybe it speaks a different language then us. Maybe it can only communicate indirectly with us; what we might perceive as urges or synchronicities, etc.

Yes. Agree.

One of the things I've wondered about is, if the Earth system is conscious, what is the mechanism that is correlates to the neural net? If the object can "think" there must be a neural pathway.

Well, perhaps humans are the neurons. We are part of the biosphere after all.

Yes - you can find near similar thoughts in very ancient esoteric texts - and not so ancient. too.

David mentioned memes. What are memes?

Maybe memes are nothing more than the Earth's thoughts. These thoughts propagate among humans in much the same way that thought propagate through the neurons of a human brain.

David and Chris talked about the idea that many of these thoughts/memes may be related to getting Life off-planet. That's an interesting thought, but I want to spend more time thinking about this idea of memes as Earth-thought.

Of course this ties in with the (Steinerian) idea of mind as nature transcending itself. Neurons sprang out of nature, and mind sprang out of neurons.

Nature > Life > Complex Life > Mind > Gaia (uber complex life) > Gaian Mind (Uber complex mind)

However, humans can't really communicate with our own neurons; could Gaia communicate directly with her neurons (humans)?

How might all of this relate to the paranormal? Consciousness? And even UFOs? Are they here to visit us, or might they be here to visit Gaia? Or are they Gaia?

Some very cool thoughts in the above.
 
Just as humans can become infected with viruses or be afflicted with pathology of thinking, one wonders if Gaia can as well? Are humans a virus with which Gaia is infected?

Or is Gaia experiencing mental illness by way of the conflicting memes of Earth (human) life?

In certain esoteric cosmologies Earth is actually an 'unsacred' planet that is currently undergoing initiation. Image of the rod being placed on the head - passing energy to the initiate - consider Earth as having such an experience as it undergoes initiation with tremendous force, power and energy flowing into her systems to realign it's 'chakras' to become 'enlightened' but at a planetary level, becoming a 'sacred planet'. Such a force has a tremendous impact on all the beings living on the planet from ground up.

It's not for nothing that there are warnings about undertaking the path of initiation as a human - the potential for failure exists, and many there are who 'fall by the wayside' deranged or shattered one way or another. (But if not in this life, then another - the urge to initiate is very strong.)

Consider then the risks with planetary initiation - and yes, we as the human evolution on this planet - as the cutting edge of consciousness - as the brain for Gaia - will be multiplying and re-organizing with all the attendant problems such a powerful re-configuring of a Planetary Consciousness will instigate. It's a massive imagination.

(Perhaps our solar system was once flourishing with living planets which have since succombed to old age and disease? I don't believe that, but it's a fun thought.)

Not far from what esoteric lore posits. I can't recall the story now but I think Mars is suppose to have that kind of story - though more brutal.

The difference between life on a 'sacred' planet versus an 'unsacred' planet - an initiated versus an initiated planet - a planet that has gone through it's Planetary Initiation of a certain degree - would be significant. And just as a human who is undergoing an initiation becomes attractive to all manner of people and beings - both positive and negative - so it would be for the Planetary Being undergoing initiation. A dangerous point - that the planet needs our cooperation with. It's to our advantage to help the Planetary Consciousness 'in which we move and live and have our being' in its transition to a higher state of planetary consciousness.
 
In this video, the introductory remarks - about 4 minutes long - give an excellent overview of McDermott's academic career and intellectual biography. I haven't listened to this whole video. I am only linking it for the intro bio of 4 minutes.

(However, one interesting comment at about 16:00: "Why do we need metaphysics? There is a great line from [...] about not every person needs religion but every culture does - well, not every person needs metaphysics, but every culture does, and every culture has one, and really every person does as well (however 'malnourished' ) [....] Common sense is not really adequate because it doesn't get one 'out of the box'....." )


Here is his "New Essential Steiner: An Introduction to Rudolf Steiner for the 21st Century" by
Rudolf Steiner (Author), Robert A. McDermott (Editor)

Steiner is a seminal thinker who has not been given adequate 'play time' - McDermott is the one with the ability to explain why that is so. It is also changing. I agree with the bolded -

Amazon Review: "Robert McDermott's introduction is clear and appealing. He examines why Steiner is still so little known despite being one of the most advanced thinkers of our age, commenting that too many of his "followers" put Steiner against modern thinkers and movements - a place Steiner would have shuddered to have found himself. He states: "Despite obstacles to the spread of Steiner's ideas and their influence, there is increasing evidence that they have become more familiar and received more credit than they did a generation ago. It is no longer unusual to observe academics and seekers acknowledging that Steiner's innovations such as Waldorf Education, biodynamic agriculture, anthroposophically extended medicine, and anthroposophic arts represent significant contributions to contemporary thought and culture."
McDermott give a clear and compelling introduction to Steiner making clear who he was and what his work was about. He then presents Steiner's work as having 12 distinct branches:
1. Philosophy: Self and World
2. Evolution: Cosmic and Human
3. Anthropos: Body, Soul and Spirit
4. Spiritual intelligence
5. Christ and other exalted beings
6. Reincarnation, Karma and the dead
7. Arts
8. Society
9. Education
10. Psychology
11. Health and Healing
12. Gaia and the Future
In each section McDermot gives a very interesting overview of the field and then presents Steiner's writing about that field. These articles are newly translated with gender references removed, making them much more available to modern readership, and with excellent references and referrals for where else to read more.
As a person who has read Steiner for many years and teaches in Waldorf Education, I found this book a tremendous help in putting areas of his work in relation to one another and to modern scientific thinking. I found the book incredibly interesting, quotable, refreshing, stimulating. It is a book I would highly recommend both to enquirers about Steiner and Anthroposophy and to those very familiar with it as a way to help introduce others, to sharpen their own understanding and to gain an overview of the depth and breadth of Steiner's contribution to the world."


McDermott's work is really linking Eastern and Western thought, so his "The Essential Aurobindo: Writings of Sri Aurobindo" by Robert A. McDermott (Author), Sri Aurobindo (Author) is important, as the following review encapsulates.

Amazon Review (well worth quoting in full): "In his numerous and enlightening writings, Sri Aurobindo presents one of the most significant metaphysical interpretations concerning the nature of existence, as well as the purpose of matter, life, mind, and spirit. For Aurobindo, existence unfolds by a perpetuating and inevitable evolution towards the complete fulfillment of spirit and soul, whereby the mind of man is an intermediate step by which the all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-present bliss that is the universe can eventually recognize itself in spirit.

Aurobindo has a particularly fascinating elucidation on the process of natural evolution. In his estimation, evolution is the instrument by which the infinite oneness (Aurobindo uses many terms - though in vain - to capture what he admits is ineffable) unveils itself. In this sense, the process by which matter became life, life became animals, and animals became man, was a natural process not aimless but inevitable. For if matter manifested life, matter (or the material reality) must have inherently involved life even before its fruition. In this sense, life, mind, and the future states of the supramental and spiritual revelation are not spontaneously created by a blind universe, but instead are consciously liberated over time. In his words matter and life, mind and spirit, are not created anew but are already existent - but merely manifested by the Spirit in a process of "bringing out of what already existed in suppressed fact or in eternal potentiality." (72) There is purpose and direction.

Evolution gradually advances the material reality into recognition of its spiritual bliss, and only by the evolution up to, through, and past the human mind (well, theoretically any 'mental' organism/being will do) will this recognition exist. Accordingly, our lives are fraught with meaning and purpose. Our purpose is to recognize the all-blissful spirit that IS 'us' and 'everything', by advancing our consciousness past (but not by denying entirely) vital and mental concerns towards the spiritual realm. Hence we will facilitate the continual process of evolution towards the descent of the 'supramental' - the stage 'above mind' by which man and the universe can wax ever more conscious of the ineffable bliss and spirit that constitutes "being". Man IS special indeed - Aurobindo even designates him as the Spirit's "highest vehicle" for evolution to date. Having said that, he is merely an instrument of the divine spirit, and he is not more or less important than, nor more and less separate from any other component or material force that precedes and follows his existence. Thus he should not regard his special place as an invitation towards egoism and pride, for he and his mind had always existed and will always exist in 'eternal potentiality,' and his place is hence shared with all, while all shares its omnipresent place with him.

Before reading Aurobindo, I had really only been familiar with University professors and western philosophers. According to the conventional thoughts of this milieu - perhaps best encapsulated in Camus' "Myth of Sisyphus" - existence in the material is not only temporary but also meaningless. Body and mind are but interchangeable and mundane forms of matter, and 'conceiving' the soul is an action of a schizophrenic mind creating an imaginary friend of sorts to console the restlessness of his purposeless existence. Aurobindo's words, however, seek to "thin the wall between soul and matter." (195)

Some eastern belief systems posit reality that isn't much more cheerful - including the Buddhist conception (depending on how one interprets it) that existence in the material realm may be eternal and one may indeed have a soul, but it still lacks purpose in that it is subjected to a perpetual and unwilling participation in an endless cycle of natural processes. While rebirth is hypothetically preferable to a one-shot deal, existence is still meaningless - and therefore the goal is to escape the cycle in itself (Nirvana). From these beliefs and others, Aurobindo provides an alternative answer.

While Aurobindo subscribes to a monistic conceptualization of being, he posits a refined variation on this interpretation. In evaluating the idea of resurrection of the soul in his essay "Philosophy of Rebirth," Aurobindo claims that conventional monisms - e.g. Vedantics and Upanishads - contend the universe is one, and that matter ebbs and flows from this oneness like waves from the sea. But as Aurobindo astutely points out, if this is the case, rebirth of the soul is either temporary, illusory, or unnecessary. There is no reason for it. Why is there matter at all, why can't the eternal oneness just be in itself? Why is there manifestation of its reality at all? The sea does not need waves.

This is where Aurobindo demarcates his spiritual belief about Nature and Spirit most compellingly. Unlike the Vedantics or Buddhists who exalt the spiritual realm while subsequently derogating the material realm that often obscures it, Aurobindo argues that these two domains are one and the same - inevitably interdependent for manifestation and consciousness - hence Integral Yoga. The sea NEEDS waves. The material world is the infinite divine manifesting itself in a perpetual process of unfolding its blissful being, and it strives for consciousness of itself through evolution from matter to life to mind to supramental to ubiquitous consciousness of the SPIRIT. It can not do so in infinity - it trips over its own legs in the endlessness of space and time. Hence it concentrates spirit in the finite of matter, life, mind, and supermind/spirit.

These are some of the many fascinating ideas that Aurobindo introduces in his many essays. He presents many valuable insights on the role of religion in its interpretation of Spirit, as well as the dichotomy of the material world / spiritual world (a dichotomy Aurobindo insists is inaccurate) and how western and eastern thought treat this traditional opposition. Perhaps his most impressive quality is his profound and complete understanding of interpretations other than his own, educed by his discussion on western and eastern philosophical and religious traditions.

While Aurobindo's ideas in themselves are captivating, his articulation of those ideas are equally impressive. As his second (some might even argue his third) language, his command of English and mastery of lingual exposition matches that of Conrad. An exquisite writer, he articulates his sophisticated metaphysics with elegant prose and quite coherent explication. Quite simply, he is an exquisite writer and an absolutely brilliant thinker. I highly recommend this book. I have found it to be the most rewarding collection of words to explain to me the nature of the universe and my place in it as a human."

Tyger, thank you very much for posting these illuminating commentaries about the two books concerning Steiner and Aurobindo, which I will order and read. I especially responded to this extract from the review of the Aurobindo book:

. . . if matter manifested life, matter (or the material reality) must have inherently involved life even before its fruition. In this sense, life, mind, and the future states of the supramental and spiritual revelation are not spontaneously created by a blind universe, but instead are consciously liberated over time. In his words matter and life, mind and spirit, are not created anew but are already existent - but merely manifested by the Spirit in a process of "bringing out of what already existed in suppressed fact or in eternal potentiality." (72) There is purpose and direction.
 
I want to comment on how exceptionally far this conversation has come. There was a time when the merest mention of someone like Sri Aurobindo (or Steiner) as being a significant player in a (scientific) dialog regarding consciousness would have sent certain posters screaming from the thread - or descend upon the thread like locusts. That response is out of ignorance imo.

Conversations like what have been taking place here - free and far ranging with no rules other than good humor and respect for all views - is the sine qua non of intelligent (and scientific) debate. It is a pleasure to have had the opportunity to watch the dialog - and occasionally be some small part of it. Constance and Steve - and Soupie - thank you for some fascinating reading. Your command is impressive.
 
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A PODCAST:
Expanding Mind – Transhuman Yearnings – 06/15/14
Posted on: June 15th, 2014 by Archivist
The Singularity, the übermensch, and the yearning to overcome history: a conversation with philosopher and integral theorist Michael E. Zimmerman, co-author of Integral Ecology: Uniting Multiple Perspectives on the Natural World.http://prn.fm/expanding-mind-transhuman-yearnings-061514/
Expanding Mind - Transhuman Yearnings - 06/15/14 - PRN.fm - PRN.fm
Tags: Christianity, Expanding Mind, Expanding Mind - Transhuman Yearnings, Friedrich Nietzsche, Integral ecology, Integral theory, Michael E. Zimmerman, Natural World, Singularity, Technological singularity
 
A PODCAST:
Expanding Mind – Transhuman Yearnings – 06/15/14
Posted on: June 15th, 2014 by Archivist
The Singularity, the übermensch, and the yearning to overcome history: a conversation with philosopher and integral theorist Michael E. Zimmerman, co-author of Integral Ecology: Uniting Multiple Perspectives on the Natural World.http://prn.fm/expanding-mind-transhuman-yearnings-061514/
Expanding Mind - Transhuman Yearnings - 06/15/14 - PRN.fm - PRN.fm
Tags: Christianity, Expanding Mind, Expanding Mind - Transhuman Yearnings, Friedrich Nietzsche, Integral ecology, Integral theory, Michael E. Zimmerman, Natural World, Singularity, Technological singularity

Erik Davis! one of my regular pods ... will have a listen to this one!



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