COVID-19 News

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Covid-19 is nasty and getting worse get vaccinated up to yourself which one . While didn't agree with all the US politicians on both sides nor others it's above politics .The pandemic started in Southeast Asia millions off the books and spread like wild fire and still going.

 

[Randall]

Covid-19 is nasty and getting worse get vaccinated up to yourself which one . While didn't agree with all the US politicians on both sides nor others it's above politics .The pandemic started in Southeast Asia millions off the books and spread like wild fire and still going.

On how "nasty" COVID-19 is, the most conservative studies have found that 30% of those infected don't experience any symptoms at all. An early high-quality study from South Korea estimated that the number could be as high as 90%. Most people experience mild cold-like symptoms and are fine within 14 days. Consider the following:

Conclusions​

People <65 years old have very small risks of COVID-19 death even in pandemic epicenters and deaths for people <65 years without underlying predisposing conditions are remarkably uncommon. Strategies focusing specifically on protecting high-risk elderly individuals should be considered in managing the pandemic. SOURCE - US National Library of Medicine - National Institutes of Health​

Given these facts, the disease can hardly be called "nasty" relative to other diseases or causes of death. See attachment for additional info.

On vaccines: I have no problem with people who want to get injected with a pharmaceutical product volunteering themselves for treatment. It's another thing to coerce people with restrictions on their freedom to move, work, or get an education. Because I've not only read the clinical studies, but also looked at the way the science behind the virus and the vaccines work, I have chosen not to get vaccinated and take my chances without it.

BTW, much of the vaccination hype is pure propaganda. It's not "safe". At best it's low risk. At worst, people have died. Trivializing that because they are in the minority is a trite answer, so don't bother. People who have been vaccinated are not guaranteed to be immune either. The estimates are high that a vaccination will protect most people, but before it can do that, a person actually needs to be infected, and they aren't taking that probability into account when estimating "effectiveness".

Here in my city with a population of over a million people, given the stats, I calculated that even if I made a concerted effort to expose myself by going out to busy populated areas, my chance of exposure was .02% and given the stats above from the US National Library of Medicine, of less than 100% efficacy for the vaccine, the actual "efficacy" for my situation was under .02%, but there's a 100% guarantee of side effects ranging from mild to severe, so my choice to opt-out is perfectly rational ( if being rational matters ).

Lastly, it's also a myth that vaccinated people cannot contract COVID or pass it along to others. First there's the chance that the vaccine doesn't protect you. How they arrived at an estimate of over 90% effective is highly dubious. They are not allowed to expose people to the virus on purpose in order to see if the vaccine works. So there's no way to be sure the efficacy of the vaccine has anything to do with the numbers. Plus the testing methods are also highly dubious, but you need to review the science behind it to understand why. I have. Review this:

Now, you can do all the homework, ( and this is just the tip of the iceberg ). Or just buy into the fear. It's much easier. Your choice. Personally I'm getting tired of trying to get through to people about COVID, and just want it to be over. But will it ever really be over? Over the next few years, studies have warned that more people are likely to die as a consequence of the lockdown measures than the disease itself. Billions have been spent on Pharma, but not on putting a decent healthcare system into place. The expense has triggered inflation ( have you checked out the price of groceries lately ) ?

Real-time inflation measurement during COVID-19

The coronavirus pandemic has resulted in large shocks to both demand and supply, which conceivably could result in deflation, disinflation, or higher inflation. This column summarises findings, based on real-time scanner data in UK, on inflation among fast-moving consumer goods during the...

voxeu.org

Anyway, this is all really complex with a lot of conflicting variables, and to sort them out means going 3 or four levels below the headlines, and it's beyond most people's capacity to understand it all even if they have the time to bother. You're just talking to one of the few exceptions who gets at least 90% of it, and that's what they count on — for it to be beyond most people who will simply comply out of fear and the belief that the government knows what's best for them.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Agree to disagree. ?

 

[Randall]

Agree to disagree. ?

The only thing I'll agree to in a discussion where there are differences of opinion is to park our egos and adopt whichever position is based on a combination of the the best available evidence and critical thinking. I've provided statistics backed by scientific research to support my position. If you can't do better, at least have the jam to upgrade yours. The "agree to disagree" position is a cop out.

That being said. I will concede that there are instances where COVID has been very "nasty", but it's not reasonable to cherry pick the minority of worst cases and use them to extrapolate from the specific to the general. A few bad vaccine reactions aren't sufficient to claim all vaccinations will be bad, just like it's not reasonable to cherry pick the worst cases of COVID to claim everyone will suffer the same fate if they don't get vaccinated.

Somewhere between the extreme positions is something closer to the truth, and more reasonable in terms of what is actually the best course of action for individuals as well as society at large.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Many cases of folks dealing with serious after effects and like all pandemic it's not discovered until after.

 

[Randall]

Many cases of folks dealing with serious after effects and like all pandemic it's not discovered until after.

Yes, that's fair comment. The worrying thing about that, is that the after effects as you call them, if you are referring to long hauler's syndrome — which is the persistence of symptoms after the virus is gone, appears to be an immune system response. I have an email confirmation from a high-level physician studying it. They are taking the immune system hypothesis very seriously and it is likely to be the focus of their scientific efforts to understand it.

The thing about this is that with Long Hauler's, the virus is gone. So it's not the virus. So what is causing the syndrome then? If as I suspect, it's an immune system response, then the focus is on the way our system attacks the virus' spike protein, which in this case exploits the Neuropilin 1 receptors on our cells, which is used by good proteins we need to grow and maintain nerves and blood vessels.

The logic here is that that if this theory holds true ( and there's no scientific reason I have found so far that disproves it ), then the vaccines are training our bodies to identify and destroy the same spike protein, and it turns out that many of the adverse reactions from the vaccines are virtually identical to long hauler's. You see; I'm not "anti-science". I actually get the science. That's why I don't want it near me.

Given the above, logic tells me that the best option is not to get either the virus or the vaccine and stay clear of the whole mess. I have that luxury. Other people are not so fortunate. For them, a vaccination has a higher chance of being beneficial compared to getting the full blown disease, but when you work it all out, the actual likelihood of that being the case is much smaller than has been advertised, and the long-term effects aren't known.

If my concerns turn out to be the case, then healthy people people will have the near-term range of side effects already reported, but the long-term effects could take as long as 18 months to manifest. If you get past that, then you're probably going to be okay because your body has figured out not to attack the spike protein, in which case the vaccine is also pointless against COVID, because it doesn't know how to tell the difference. It just pattern matches to what it's given.

 

[henris42]

Hold on. Are you talking about after effect to the COVID-19 disease, or vaccine?

I do understand the vaccine long term fears to some point, as there was a narcolepsy case with an influenza vaccine a few years back. But that was specifically the old-style vaccine done with weakened virus - it was not these new types of mRNA vaccines.
So if you are taking that point, the "newness" of vaccine does not hold the point, as its completely different technology (unless you take AstraZeneca or Janssen).

It is of course for anybody to do their best judgement, but long-term COVID-19 seems rather bad. I personally chose the mRNA vaccine (Pfizer) to mitigate. For me, the side effects have been non-existent, only a sore elbow muscle for a day.

There has been of couse over and over these concerns that a new mutation will make vacciness ineffective, but this has so far never been the case. The mRNA vaccines have been specifically designed to be resilient towards simple mutations. I think I shared that paper here earlier - its tough read if you don't know your bioinformatics. I'm not worried.

 

[Randall]

Hold on. Are you talking about after effect to the COVID-19 disease, or vaccine?

I do understand the vaccine long term fears to some point, as there was a narcolepsy case with an influenza vaccine a few years back. But that was specifically the old-style vaccine done with weakened virus - it was not these new types of mRNA vaccines.
So if you are taking that point, the "newness" of vaccine does not hold the point, as its completely different technology (unless you take AstraZeneca or Janssen).

It is of course for anybody to do their best judgement, but long-term COVID-19 seems rather bad. I personally chose the mRNA vaccine (Pfizer) to mitigate. For me, the side effects have been non-existent, only a sore elbow muscle for a day.

There has been of couse over and over these concerns that a new mutation will make vacciness ineffective, but this has so far never been the case. The mRNA vaccines have been specifically designed to be resilient towards simple mutations. I think I shared that paper here earlier - its tough read if you don't know your bioinformatics. I'm not worried.

The problem with COVID is that it doesn't matter what vaccine it is because they all boil down to the same thing — our immune systems being trained to attack it, so it will learn the spike protein regardless of where it gets the pattern. In a natural immune system response, our immune systems may not always pattern after exactly the same one, which could explain why not everyone gets the syndrome.

With the MRNA vaccines however, it will be sure to pattern after that one. Why people don't always end-up with problems is unclear — even to the scientists. It might be the case that with that particular protein, our immune systems only go into attack mode when there's too many of them. Which could also explain why some people can get the virus and not even know they have it.

The nasty symptoms from COVID aren't from the virus itself, but from our immune response to it. So maybe some people's systems don't see it as an enemy ( again, because it has a key for a friendly pathway into the cells ). Interestingly, that same pathway is the one identified by the Chinese virologist who was researching how to make coronaviruses transmissible to humans.

But no — it came from a bat that flew a thousand miles away from where it is found in nature, landed in a marketplace where by some unknown process "zoonotically" transmitted the virus to an intermediate species ( that nobody has found ) that then infected some humans who were nowhere near the market ( but had connections to the lab next door ).

 

[henris42]

But no — it came from a bat that flew a thousand miles away from where it is found in nature, landed in a marketplace where by some unknown process "zoonotically" transmitted the virus to an intermediate species ( that nobody has found ) that then infected some humans who were nowhere near the market ( but had connections to the lab next door ).

How do you know that? I think the "escaped from a lab" is very credible hypothesis. The EU is taking that very seriously to investigate.

 

[Randall]

How do you know that? I think the "escaped from a lab" is very credible hypothesis. The EU is taking that very seriously to investigate.

That's exactly what I'm saying too. The comment was facetious. It's what the non-lab damage control artists cooked-up and sold to the anti-conspiracy theory zealots who went on to repeat it. To me, the lab theory is 97.876% probable, and even Science Officer Spock only calculated to one decimal point.

If you missed the video I posted from the Epoch Times, check it out. Gene doesn't like it because he doesn't like the Epoch Times marketing methods, but I haven't found anything majorly wrong with their story. It's back here: COVID-19 News

 

[henris42]

That's exactly what I'm saying too. The comment was facetious. It's what the non-lab damage control artists cooked-up and sold to the anti-conspiracy theory zealots who went on to repeat it. To me, the lab theory is 97.876% probable, and even Science Officer Spock only calculated to one decimal point.

Well Chinese are not letting anyone investigate.

Let the poor animals alone! (and stop eating them also) [edit I'm not vegetarian, just be mindful]

 

[Randall]

Well Chinese are not letting anyone investigate.

Let the poor animals alone! (and stop eating them also) [edit I'm not vegetarian, just be mindful]

Indeed. But like I said. Check out the vid ( if you haven't seen it yet ). I added the link to the previous post. Yes it's from early in the investigation, but that actually makes it more likely to be true IMO.

 

[henris42]

Yes, but I do not believe without proof to any IMO. As a good EU citizen I'm going to push ECDC to investigate. (Yes, they actually answer you mails here)

 

[Randall]

Yes, but I do not believe without proof to any IMO. As a good EU citizen I'm going to push ECDC to investigate. (Yes, they actually answer you mails here)

Proof is subjective and changes from person to person. Plus, assuming there is an element of purpose behind the pandemic, the whole point is plausible deniability. So the best you can hope for is evidence that tips the scales one way or the other, and there's lots of that. Will we ever see a videotape of the CCP military officials who knowingly let aircraft out of Wuhan with infected passengers onboard admitting to doing so? No. Do we know it happened? Yes.

Will we ever get an admission that the virus came from their lab? No. Do we know they had a top CCP virologist working on ways to make coronavirus transmissible to humans? Yes. So given that we know those two things are facts. All we can't prove is whether or not the leak was on purpose or by accident, and that is nearly irrelevant, because either way, they still knowingly let infected passengers on airplanes headed to the West. So it's the same outcome either way. For that matter, even if it was a "zoonotic" transmission, it still makes no difference.

It's like saying, "We knew the dog had rabies, but we let it run around the neighborhood biting people anyway, but don't blame us because we didn't give the dog rabies, in fact we don't know how the dog got rabies. Yes it was at our rabies testing lab, but that doesn't prove anything." Really, what more "proof" do you need?

 

[henris42]

.. they still knowingly let infected passengers on airplanes headed to the West. So it's the same outcome either way...

Well in here they just knowingly let in busloads of football tourists carrying the delta variant from Russia.

That still means stupidity, not malice.

 

[Randall]

Well in here they just knowingly let in busloads of football tourists carrying the delta variant from Russia.

That still means stupidity, not malice.

Who knows for sure? The way a lot of this works isn't obvious. People pull strings behind the scenes to make this crap happen in a way that gives it plausible deniability, but makes billions for big pharma or costs people political positions. Don't be so sure it was just stupidity alone. Although it certainly helps ( lol )

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Stupidity. Like holding an indoor White House party for a Supreme Court nominee last summer, resulting in lots and lots of infections. And no apologies.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Oh and about people who won't get the vaccine in the U.S.:

Fauci: More than 99% of people who died from COVID-19 in June were not vaccinated

Anthony Fauci on Sunday said more than 99 percent of the people who died from COVID-19 in June were not vaccinated, calling the loss of life “avoidable and preventable.”“If you look at the number o…

thehill.com

 

[henris42]

I do have to say that my belief for governments' infinite stupidity holds strong. You do not need a conspiracy for them to act like they do.

I'm a member of a party. I know - politicians are complete idiots.

 

[henris42]

Oh and about people who won't get the vaccine in the U.S.:

Fauci: More than 99% of people who died from COVID-19 in June were not vaccinated

Anthony Fauci on Sunday said more than 99 percent of the people who died from COVID-19 in June were not vaccinated, calling the loss of life “avoidable and preventable.”“If you look at the number o…

thehill.com

Wow that is a strong lead - I've been trying to find similar in the EU, but they are not giving out enough statistics!