I would seriously recommend talking to Amy Allen for a almost practical and non biased look into these matters. I think and stress think (IMO) she could possibly be the real thing. Yah yah I know God hates mediums blah blah. I am not saying to become or embrace anything, however this is a serious question that needs to be handled with great care. Good luck and remember we may never know the real answers, if there is one. Did your parents tell you everything growing up? I know mine didn't.
Thanks for the suggestion Wester71! I'll check her out. I have nothing against mediums. I think some are phony, but I believe there are people with the ability out there. And nope, mine did not. They never pretended to know everything, but didn't push anything beyond what's considered the norm (at least in the U.S.). I don't expect to fully understand anything, but I like to do my best to try and gather information and get a better perspective on what may be at the core of the subject.
If one is open to the idea that we exist in another form after we pass on, maybe that which we call demons are energies of people that were evil in real life only now they are empowered, unencumbered by their once human form.
This is a concept I have found the most logical, Spookymulder. I mean look at some of the horrible things people are capable of as living beings. Imagine if they shook off the yoke of being a breathing animal and gained the ability to move and act more freely. That's not to say that they don't deserve the title of demon, but I just feel like maybe it's a bit misleading when every negative paranormal incident is labeled demonic as it is defined by the Christian belief system (usually counteracted by an exorcism or some kind of religious ritual). And maybe some rituals have the power to stop or contain this type of activity, but I just think a better understanding of what it is might lead to better, more effective ways of coping with it.
There's living things that we can't see without a microscope. There's a growing body of evidence for "multiverse" type theories. Our floating ball of wet dirt isn't even a grain of sand on the beach of the universe. It doesn't seem unreasonable that there would be life forms that we don't fully understand at this point in time. If there's douchebag humans, I don't see why there can't be douchebags of other "intelligent" species.
Absolutely TalkingMeatSuit. I agree completely. I think it's very easy to get lost in our daily lives and forget just how miniscule we are when you look up and out.
Before I can comment, I would like a your definition of what constitutes a "demon".
Is it a red skinnned goat legged horn-spouting minion of hell? Are they mostly invisible and whisper subconscious suggestions in our ears?
Or do thay take a fully corporeal existence wreaking havok on peoples lives?
Are they just denizens of other dimensions? Or is there a religious side to them?
Or, are they just thoughtforms created by the religiously over-zealous?
I think that's part of what I'm trying to come to terms with as much as I can here, Exo_doc. I suppose if I was forced into a definition, I would probably go with the evil ghost/evil entity approach. Not necsesarily the traditional red skinned goat-legged, horned creature but something spirit in design that has bad intentions. I should also add the disclaimer that I fully admit that I do not know everything and my opinion is subject to change.
As I grow wider, I fully expect my understanding of the world to evolve.
Tulpas, yes. Otherworldly entities that are destructive, yes. But arcane demons, not so much.
In my opinion, evil needs no outside source to make men into monsters.
BlackRockLobster, are you saying you don' believe in the Christian version of demon or that they do exist but aren't as powerful or significant as some believe them to be? And when you say "otherworldly" are we talking dimensional, spiritual (or a bit of both and more)?
Isn't it amazing how the older we get the more we tend to grow wiser? What we're talking about when it comes to demons are myths that manifest themselves in various beliefs and phenomena. Christopher's Trickster could be considered to be a particularly interesting brand of demon. The whole idea is wrapped up in concepts of morality, justice and the nature of existence. What might be considered an angel to one person would be considered a demon to another. Ultimately, in order to answer these questions one needs to focus on the concept of truth as a philosophical issue rather than as a religious principle. From there one can unravel the whole hierarchy of spiritual entities and put them into their proper place.
I think the world becomes a very different place as we age and see it under new light, Ufology. I also agree, I think an individual's background and belief system tends to apply titles, intentions, even backstory to this type of thing. Go to one culture and it's a demon, go to another and it's something completely different. Having lived in the U.S. my entire life, much of the influence here seems to be Christian, so that's a lot of what I hear and see in media when it comes to this type of thing.
The problem with the label of demon as it is usually applied by religious fundamentalists is that it seems aimed, like everything else in the fundamentalist's world view, at defining any and all phenomena in no other terms than within a particular religious or mythological world view. It's a kind of warning against active inquiry in lieu of accepting rote definition from higher social authority. No sensible thinker should have a problem with the concept of either human or non-human entities deserving the label "evil". But we have an obligation as thinking individuals to question the nature of whatever source of it we might encounter. Unless, of course, we find the natural consequences of doing so to be unacceptable. If I were to find a cause-and-effect relationship between investigating strange things and "evil" happenings, would I cease and desist? Most probably ! But I have not personally seen such a link. Perhaps others have.
Boomerang - I also think some people, having grown up with certain beliefs (primarily religious), are more comfortable utilizing those labels. And, in terms of living, non-living and "other" types of entities, I have no problem accepting that some may simply be out and out evil. Even without our dear Prince of Darkness jabbing them with a hot poker.
I do believe that there are entities which may have in the past been called demons or angels. I do think that science will eventually prove these entities to exist but in order to properly pursue of even acknowledge such things we need to strip them of their cultural baggage, its not going to help anyone by applying other peoples imaginative assertions and descriptions and control mechanisms. Saying that tho, it is important to understand and acknowledge peoples experiences in regards to the phenomena and not to overrule or mis/re-interpret peoples experiences but see them contextually.
If you would like a more recent and pertinent understanding of the cultural/human need to explore these considerations you should look at current treatment of schizophrenics with avatar therapy.
BBC News - Avatars ease voices for schizophrenia patients
As always a modern era proves nothing but that, we pretty much were doing these things already but man has to recontextualise and place perception through whatever current paradigm is the norm; science, psychology and computer analogic modelling.
And so history repeats and loops , with different filters, the same lyrics the same notes, different instruments, the same tones and timbres.. echoes of past experiences reverberating through the corridors of time.
Thanks for the link, Nameless. And some excellent food for thought. Your last sentences remind me much of my views on the problems in the world today, another thing I have been having difficulty coming to terms with in my mind. But that's not relevant here. I think refusing to look beyond what we have been taught can really hold us back when trying to gain a better understanding of many things, including this topic.
I agree mostly with the linguistic and cultural considerations above. I don't believe in demons. On days when I feel more creative about consciousness I think there's a good chance that whatever is the unique spark that co-exists with this physical body, the one dressed in the memories and experiences of this body, that it could get recycled over and over again as it floats on down the samsara river. But as for hell and heaven (or the J. Witness cult's version of only 144,000 getting to stay in the immortality hotel), those things sound pretty absolutist and improbable up against a life defined by change. Demons don't seem to be about process at all, just a name that is a placeholder for what we call evil. It's also a fine, personified way to scare the crap out of kids. I remember being eternally fixated on the demon standing amidst all the real people in the illustations from Sunday School literature of the 70's. They always stood right beside the kids that lied, stole or cheated.
(I couldn't find one of those pics anywhere?!)
Still not too clear though on how our cultural narratives about evil connects to the schizophrenics feeling better (by learning to see their negative voices as externalized digital entities that could then allow for CBT to help play a role in diminishing the power of those voices). In this example it seems that the 'evil demon' lies within and be cast out through mindfulness practice and the realization that evil can be defeated through goodness. Oh...ok, never mind.
Burnt State - Those illustrations were distributed a little while before my time. I'm sure they are rather amusing to look at now.
Is that an American Girl doll in a devil costume? EEEVILLLLLLL!! lol. You make some great points. Heaven and Hell seem like too much of a catch all. I believe the creation of such things was heavily influenced by a desire (by living, breathing men) to control and little else. Not to say I don't believe there aren't good and bad places you can end up at some point, I just don't think it's as neat and tidy as a Christian belief system makes it out to be. I won't speak for other belief systems because my experience is minimal at best (and I'm certainly no expert on Christianity, either), although I'm sure some share similar concepts.
Could it not be that the demon theme is just another culturally based perception? No doubt it has its origins in medieval christianity, with its distinct and clearly defined ideals and perceptions of morality. And people seeing these creatures most often seem to be based within this religious concept.
For example the character Pan stemming from antiquity had many characteristics remeniscent of the christian devil, and was interpreted through the cultural filter of greek mythology. This could possibly show the fact that how we percieve the supernatural (for lack of a better word) is mainly based upon our cultural references.
Yup, Pegusta. I definitely believe that some things change over time as they are borrowed by and/or passed along from culture to culture. Another reason I get a little miffed when some people claim something is strictly Christian when it has origins in earlier times and earlier cultures/religions.
I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on Christianity. It is just the most relevant here to me (and the one that I have the most personal experience dealing with in terms of learning about it and disagreeing with people who practice it in certain ways lol).