Demons: What's Your Take?

[Randall]

Yes, I believe this is more than a concept and that there are entities out there that can be pretty bad mofos. I just strongly question the generally accepted explanations for their origins, purpose, etc.

Your approach to the phenomena is IMO the most reasonable one that anyone can take. In the same way that we have insufficient evidence to conclude with absolute certainty that UFOs are ET, we cannot conclude that the phenomena that gives rise to belief in demons is connected with a civilization of evil entities living in a fiery realm. Interestingly, there are some people who have connected the two concepts and concluded that UFOs are transports from Hell piloted by demons. As wacko as that sounds, if we remove the religious stereotyping, it actually works out to being one of the most reasonable explanations for genuine manifestations of the phenomena.

The reason I say that is because when we remove all the religious stereotyping, what we're left with aren't transports from Hell, but aliens with high technology. But why would they engage in such odd behavior? The most obvious reason would be to study human psychology. Imagine being on the other side of the glass ( metaphorically ) clandestinely observing the reactions of humans to experiments where the subjects ( us ) are given a stimulus without any apparent logical cause. Suddenly we come up with all kinds of strange supernatural explanations. These explanations are what have given rise to major religions. By studying our reactions they're studying how our species has been conditioned for thousands of years by what have been traditionally interpreted as mystical forces.

 

[starise]

Well it is very difficult to deny something that I have personally had contact with, and yes these were/are demons.

I am not the type to jump to conclusions or labels fast. This involves me in a direct way. YES they exist.. and you don't really want proof if it involves what I had to go through.

Don't doubt it for a minute.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

Well it is very difficult to deny something that I have personally had contact with, and yes these were/are demons.

I am not the type to jump to conclusions or labels fast. This involves me in a direct way. YES they exist.. and you don't really want proof if it involves what I had to go through.

Don't doubt it for a minute.

What's the story here? Curious...

 

[Burnt State]

The reason I say that is because when we remove all the religious stereotyping, what we're left with aren't transports from Hell, but aliens with high technology. But why would they engage in such odd behavior? The most obvious reason would be to study human psychology. Imagine being on the other side of the glass ( metaphorically ) clandestinely observing the reactions of humans to experiments where the subjects ( us ) are given a stimulus without any apparent logical cause. Suddenly we come up with all kinds of strange supernatural explanations. These explanations are what have given rise to major religions. By studying our reactions they're studying how our species has been conditioned for thousands of years by what have been traditionally interpreted as mystical forces.

I think i would be significantly more dissatisfied to find out that the inspiration for the ancient world religions, demons, angels etc. originated from ET as opposed to our own human imaginings. I wonder if our speculations about 'god,' and 'satan' for that matter, as just an alien construct, are part of our own lack of self-esteem as a species. We seem to be constantly in a state of lack, as many religions inform us. I like to believe that a lot of what we believe to be real but ethereal (Angels, Demons and God etc.) is either a product of patriarchy (telling everyone what to do because, "god said so and i know because he talked to me first about because i'm the big sh*t around here and what i say goes!") or a product of our artistic imagination that loves to see patterns in nature and extrapolates from there. These two paths seem to intersect a lot over history, or as William Blake identified first the poets produced their images and then the priests came and stole their words and fashioned them into laws - fearful stuff if you ask me. Demons are just something scrib'd into our heads.

 

[Grifynne]

I think i would be significantly more dissatisfied to find out that the inspiration for the ancient world religions, demons, angels etc. originated from ET as opposed to our own human imaginings. I wonder if our speculations about 'god,' and 'satan' for that matter, as just an alien construct, are part of our own lake of self-esteem as a species. We seem to be constantly in a state of lack, as many religions inform us. I like to believe that a lot of what we believe to be real but ethereal (Angels, Demons and God etc.) is either a product of patriarchy (telling everyone what to do because, "god said so and i know because he talked to me first about because i'm the big sh*t around here and what i say goes!") or a product of our artistic imagination that loves to see patterns in nature and extrapolates from there. These two paths seem to intersect a lot over history, or as William Blake identified first the poets produced their images and then the priests came and stole their words and fashioned them into laws - fearful stuff if you ask me. Demons are just something scrib'd into our heads.

I definitely think there's something to that. For centuries religions have been pounding certain ideas into the minds of those who follow them. I think the idea of patterns is probably a more comfortable one for most to accept. One of my biggest problems with the whole thing is that much of the "source materials" seem to all be man made. Even if there's something more behind it, it is still going to be tainted by the desires, biases and beliefs of men. Which I think is where a lot of the crazy rules and requirements to be "good" come from. I suppose that if there is an all-knowing being guiding everything that happens, then he could easily influence a person to write down or preach whatever it is he wants. I just find this difficult to believe. If someone is up there, I just don't think they're making all this kind of crap up. I think a lot of it comes from regular people throughout the centuries who wanted to identify their club from all the rest.

That being said, I do believe that there are things we don't understand and there could be evil entities. And maybe those have helped shape some religious beliefs. I just have my doubts about things being exactly the way we often perceive them to be.

Well it is very difficult to deny something that I have personally had contact with, and yes these were/are demons.

I am not the type to jump to conclusions or labels fast. This involves me in a direct way. YES they exist.. and you don't really want proof if it involves what I had to go through.

Don't doubt it for a minute.

I'm also curious, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

.​

 

[Goggs Mackay]

As time goes by, I tend to now think there are many paranormal entities which have probably always been around and from time to time noticed by people and then these entities, be they 'good' or 'bad' have been incorporated into religions, which I believe are totally man-made and not at all 'divine'.

So by all means, yes there may be forces/entities that a religious person may call demons, it's just that I don't think they are things in the service of Lucifer etc.

More broadly, all sorts of paranormal creatures such as werewolves may also have been around for ages so what we once thought were legends were actually based on sightings. I often bring things back to Skinwalker ranch. If the stuff reported there is real, then it pretty much would allow for virtually anything paranormal ever reported to be real. Rather than a multiplicity of independently evolved paranormal entities, I find it more likely, and simpler mathematically, to think there is one, or a low number, of 'causes' which can manifest in multiple ways.

 

[Wade]

which was the central point of Chris 's stalking the tricksters book; a unified theory of anomalous activities. it is this thought that got me involved in this field. whether it's the case or not is another matter but I like mulling these things over as far ad a possible concept


also keel in one of his books brought up the idea that these high strangeness events...at least the ones associated with nearby UFO activity...may be manipulated events created by the occupants to distract away from the occupants and vehicle any nosy earthlings.

 

[Burnt State]

which was the central point of Chris 's stalking the tricksters book; a unified theory of anomalous activities. it is this thought that got me involved in this field. whether it's the case or not is another matter but I like mulling these things over as far ad a possible concept


also keel in one of his books brought up the idea that these high strangeness events...at least the ones associated with nearby UFO activity...may be manipulated events created by the occupants to distract away from the occupants and vehicle any nosy earthlings.

wasn't his central contention that these events were the products of a collective human consciousness and that it was our own energies (psychic or otherwise) that were feeding into the construction of odd events, manifestations, poltergeists, strange monsters etc.? in this way the trickster is a part of us and more Jungian than an independent creature; do i have that right?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

When it comes to UFOs though, I don't get the consciousness-created aspect as I believe many photos of 'real' UFOs exist. Something solid was there reflecting light into a camera. Unless we can create matter with thought alone (interesting itself that idea), then I don't think we create them ourselves. Perhaps some other paranormal entities, yes.

 

[Burnt State]

When it comes to UFOs though, I don't get the consciousness-created aspect as I believe many photos of 'real' UFOs exist. Something solid was there reflecting light into a camera. Unless we can create matter with thought alone (interesting itself that idea), then I don't think we create them ourselves. Perhaps some other paranormal entities, yes.

well you'll just have to channel Carl Jung and ask him about the mandelas in the sky and what was he on about with that whole collective unconscious UFO thing. (What was Jerome Clark's line about that back to Chris O'Brien, that the only place the collective unconscious existed was in Jung's library?)

i'm sure when our species grows up we'll all know the formula for how thought=matter in the same way we have Einstein's theory is plastered all over t-shirts and high school text books.

 

[Wade]

wasn't his central contention that these events were the products of a collective human consciousness and that it was our own energies (psychic or otherwise) that were feeding into the construction of odd events, manifestations, poltergeists, strange monsters etc.? in this way the trickster is a part of us and more Jungian than an independent creature; do i have that right?

well, I hope I have this right as he will be reading this but I believe he spoke of a more conscious trickster ( and maybe less amoral ?) and yes that there is a cyclical feedback loop involved between "it " and us. Erik Stitt also takes this path, even more so. what I had meant was the possibility is that aliens and Bigfoot and MIB and ghosts and Mothman and springheeledjack and Bernie Madoff all spring from the same well, our own closed system terrestrial reality.

 

[Burnt State]

well, I hope I have this right as he will be reading this but I believe he spoke of a more conscious trickster ( and maybe less amoral ?) and yes that there is a cyclical feedback loop involved between "it " and us. Erik Stitt also takes this path, even more so. what I had meant was the possibility is that aliens and Bigfoot and MIB and ghosts and Mothman and springheeledjack and Bernie Madoff all spring from the same well, our own closed system terrestrial reality.

i was just listening to O'Brien today on the Hidden Experience podcast from 2009 and was very intrigued as he spoke about the notion of a planetary type of consciousness (i highly favour this type of speculation) and would like to know more about his thoughts on this. maybe i need to go buy that book. I started reading the opening pages of Erik Stitt's Psychoterrestrial theory and was very intrigued with its connection to Jung and Gaia theory. I really like his description of the rubbing of our consciousness and its to create these paranormal experiences that are only symptoms of the interaction between the two. The whole idea of the earth speaking to us in these synchronistic moments, where our personalities somehow are receiving direct communication is intriguing. I can't decide if i feel this is a little too egotistical a position, as in why am i special enough to see such symptoms or is this an accurate way of describing our own individual value. Somewhere in all of that you can see how people can feel touched by god, experience spiritual moments or feel, like in certain moments, the universe is talking to you. Thanks for cluing me into this genre of writing - i like its Mac Tonnies connection as well! Are there any specific podcasts you can point me to that treat this topic or explore Stitt's work specifically?

 

[Wade]

Chris has mentioned more than once his appearances on Greg Bishop's shows were among his favorites but the podcast you mentioned with Mike Clelland is my favorite because truth be told I didn't really understand what Chris was getting at from reading his book, it was his follow up podcast appearances that the proverbial light went on above my head. and full disclosure, it was Mike that initiated my "getting it" when he mentioned he was out walking and he thought of a book and lo and behold that very same book appeared next to a stop sign (?) that incident I could relate to quite closely, it was then I was able to put into context Chris's yellow helicopter experience.

I only heard Erik once on some podcast. It was on a husband and wife show , I wish I could remember the name of it. He also made an appearance on c2c about the same time that i felt was way more interesting.

He was to appear on the paracast but I think it was canceled.also Erik made a post or two in this forum not that long ago.

found it !

Mind Cemetery | Blog Talk Radio Feed - Guest: Erik Stitt - Jan 10,2012 - Blubrry Podcast Community

and another one that i didn't know existed

Project: Archivist » Project Archivist podcast - Episode 30 Erik Stitt “Its not Woo Woo its Yee Haw!” - Blubrry Podcast Community
late edit: also a quick search on c2c site DID NOT turn him up but i could have sworn i heard him on it.

 

[Burnt State]

it was a bottle of neutrogena 42 suntan lotion found by the stop sign. as i was listening to Chris's story today about the yellow helicopter check this out - literally seconds after he wraps up the second appearance of the yellow copter that he witnesses, what am i driving past on the highway, but the fuselage of a very old yellow mustard coloured helicopter, no glass, wood construction, very small seating - certainly nothing military or threatening about it, but a really old model stripped down. i burst out laughing immediately having felt not the slap of the trickster but more of a tickle. i did hear Chris once on Bishop's show - it was a great episode. i can listen to that podcast any day of the week. those meanderings that Greg goes on always seem to illuminate ideas in really wonderful, uninterrupted fashion. his best episodes are conversational journeys of epic proportions.

 

[boomerang]

it was a bottle of neutrogena 42 suntan lotion found by the stop sign. as i was listening to Chris's story today about the yellow helicopter check this out - literally seconds after he wraps up the second appearance of the yellow copter that he witnesses, what am i driving past on the highway, but the fuselage of a very old yellow mustard coloured helicopter, no glass, wood construction, very small seating - certainly nothing military or threatening about it, but a really old model stripped down. i burst out laughing immediately having felt not the slap of the trickster but more of a tickle. i did hear Chris once on Bishop's show - it was a great episode. i can listen to that podcast any day of the week. those meanderings that Greg goes on always seem to illuminate ideas in really wonderful, uninterrupted fashion. his best episodes are conversational journeys of epic proportions.

A classic synchronicity.

 

[starise]

I don't mind sharing but I need to put limitations on how much I can disclose because the individual involved has made it crystal clear that they don't want anything getting out and I promised them I wouldn't in any way associate them with the event/events. This person is clean now as much as I can tell but the events they were involved with included me and was a demonic possession.

There are different levels of demonic influence. There is the almost non detectable level where the individual is influenced, maybe oppressed in some way. There is the full on possession and the "come and go" type of possession.I have seen all of these.

This individual had all of the symptoms, some of which are: The idea of "we" as opposed to "I". The person has more than one demon in that case. A person with a very docile personality becomes aggressive, hateful. Can't stand the light. Has greater strength that anyone that size should have.Person has no memory of events which included throwing lamps and shoving, saying hateful things.Individual is not a drug user and had no history of any drug use. Individual knows when you enter the the room when I made sure I wasn't heard. Their eyes were closed and lights were out. The chanting actually got softer and "they" said we need to be quiet now.

 

[Burnt State]

I don't mind sharing but I need to put limitations on how much I can disclose because the individual involved has made it crystal clear that they don't want anything getting out and I promised them I wouldn't in any way associate them with the event/events. This person is clean now as much as I can tell but the events they were involved with included me and was a demonic possession.

There are different levels of demonic influence. There is the almost non detectable level where the individual is influenced, maybe oppressed in some way. There is the full on possession and the "come and go" type of possession.I have seen all of these.

This individual had all of the symptoms, some of which are: The idea of "we" as opposed to "I". The person has more than one demon in that case. A person with a very docile personality becomes aggressive, hateful. Can't stand the light. Has greater strength that anyone that size should have.Person has no memory of events which included throwing lamps and shoving, saying hateful things.Individual is not a drug user and had no history of any drug use. Individual knows when you enter the the room when I made sure I wasn't heard. Their eyes were closed and lights were out. The chanting actually got softer and "they" said we need to be quiet now.

If you don't mind sharing some more could you consider answering a few more questions?

When you say the person is "clean" now do you mean that they are free of whatever was troubling them in the past, as when you say "clean" there is the suggestion that some type of addiction, not necessarily a substance addiction, that is at play and was altering their personality. Did they have any other preoccupations or compulsive behaviours?

You said that there was chanting, the use of "we" and personal plurality. Along with the chanting, radical behaviour switches and memory loss schizophrenia comes to mind as a reason for the "we". Does that particular affliction run in the family and/or has this person ever consulted a psychologist to explore that mental health issue?

Finally, when you say demonic possession, could you identify why you think this person was targeted, or why they believe they might have been targeted and do you suspect any reasons for why this person is now "clean"?

 

[dyingsun]

Demons have been a thorn in my side recently. No, I don't mean a little red impish thing is stabbing me in the side with a pitch fork. I should preface this by saying that I am not an overly religious person. I believe there is something after we die, and I believe there are spirits, ghosts, whatever you want to call them. The older I'm getting, the less inclined I find myself to fall in step with organized religion.

I am of the opinion that if there is a big guy hanging around in the clouds, I think he may be a little less nurturing and hands on than we think. And so, to put it far simpler than I probably should, if I am not certain about the existence or constant involvement of a single all-knowing God, then how can I be so sure all things evil are manufactured courtesy of old Beezlebub and his demon minions?

Now, having delved much deeper into the rocky pit that is the paranormal and having lived through a couple more decades of personal experiences (not necessarily paranormal, I mean life in general), I just have a hard time swallowing everything that is classified as demonic. I notice some people immediately call something a demon when it acts in a way that they interpret as frightening or disagreeable.

This really got me thinking as I listened to another paranormal radio show earlier today and found myself instinctively skipping past a portion that involved a discussion of demons and exorcisms without realizing what I was doing. I also recall the Paracast episode with Lisa Lindley. Others may not agree, but I felt like she was applying a heavy filter to the situation based on her strong religious beliefs.

Do I think there could be bad entities out there? Of course I do. Just like there are bad people. Living personalities come in all flavors, from mildly jerk-ish to serial killer. So, if you subscribe to the idea that something in us continues after we stop sucking down oxygen, then why is it such a stretch to think that there could be nasty things that are among the dead? I also think that some unknown beings could be pure evil, maybe worthy of the demon title. I just don't think every bit of unpleasant activity can be chalked up to the Christian interpretation of demon. The way I see it, there's a lot of potential grey area that immediately gets shoved into the demon zone more quickly than it should be. Or maybe that's just the media side of things I'm seeing because maybe demons sell better than the other stuff, I don't know.

I am curious what everyone else thinks about demons? I suppose this is directed primarily at those who have a belief in some kind of afterlife and/or the existence of unknown entities. Atheists, pure skeptics and the like are welcome to chime in of course, but I suppose this discussion would be a moot point if you don't believe in the paranormal or the afterlife to begin with.

So I ask: What's your take on demons?

Amalgamations of human consciousness with a spark, over thousands of years.

 

[starise]

Hi Burnt State,

I am willing to disclose enough to maybe help someone else in a similar predicament. I was reluctant to comment on my experiences concerning this here because I think these kinds of sites are where some people come to hear a good yarn or find some kind of entertainment in reading about this kind of thing. The last thing I want to do is put this out there simply for someone's personal enjoyment in reading about something paranormal. This is some serious sh** . If one of these things decides to target you it will go from entertaining to scary as hell. I compare this to some of the experiences people have claimed to have had with so called "aliens" ....it might be an interesting read but you sure don't want to be the victim who is being probed..know what I mean?

So the last thing I want to do is draw attention to myself or to this person I witnessed as demon possessed. The trend here seems to be somewhat negative toward anything that might involve anything referred to that concerns demons,the Bible, or any references to anything in the Bible. Let me start off by saying that this mentality is like shooting yourself right in the foot. Look at what Bono said about Jesus. Let the chips fall wherever they will.

I referred to this person as "clean" for lack of a better term. As I said, no drugs are or have ever been involved. The person is a professional and about as even keel as they come.Dependable,intelligent and not given to any kind of behavior even remotely like this. No past occurrences and absolutely no history of any mental disturbances. You would be stunned to even think this person could have done these things and acted this way.

In the Hollywood version of these things we see a Catholic priest with a cross,a Bible, and some holy water chanting and reading from a prayer book. The incident I was involved with didn't happen anything like this.Just for the record I am on the opposing side of these things and I have been toyed with in small ways. We really have no power over these things if they decide to attack us. Very much like being in an open ocean surrounded by great white sharks, if one of them wants a bite there isn't much you can do to stop it in your own power. They do see if you have a cloak of protection though.They see and know who you are associated with and who can come to your rescue. A lot of people blindly try to battle these things thinking that if they throw the name of Jesus out there it will run away.This could be the same as a person who tells the mugger they have a gun, but there is no gun to be seen.If you didn't have anything to do with Jesus before this then you are standing on some really shaky ground and have no real weapon at your disposal.

In this case I called on Jesus to rid this person of these things.I called in any reinforcements He could send my way.You could tell it was in great pain toward the end. It/they didn't leave easily though.It tried to go into a dark room crying that the\light was blinding it.I was almost begging me to go away and holding its head in agony. It was very distressed when I touched it and so I made a point to try and touch it as much as possible..It tried to go into a dark room to get away. I forced open the door and tuned on the lights. The facial expression looked like I had shot it.

 

[starise]

The person then went to bed into a sound sleep. The next morning didn't remember anything.Didn't remember throwing large objects in the room. Didn't have any recollection of almost convulsing with a headache. This is a big point because this person was acting like they were going to die from a headache only a few hours prior. The person also complained profusely about their feet and were in a fetal position at one point wanting the pain to go away. At that same time I was extending my hands toward the feet and praying for little needles to enter its feet. This really happened.

As to why the person was targeted, I can only say because they must have been seen as an easy target. The attacks were happening at night when A: no one else would be aware of it happening and B: at night a persons guard may be down obviously. The body is at rest and more open to entry then.

I say the person is clean now because there have been no more re occurances since that night so far. If it happens again it knows there will be resistance to it. It knows we are onto it and will try and make it as miserable as possible. It won't have any rest if we find out it has returned again.

One idea is that believers are indwelled and protected by a different spirit and can't be physically possessed by evil spirits. I tend to believe this.Harassed...yes Oppressed, yes, possessed, no. Other people who are possessed and influenced can make life miserable and they themselves are miserable.A non-believer dabbling in the occult is literally asking for it to happen. There are children of light and children of darkness. The darkness hates the light and anyone who represents the light.Some areas of the paranormal are a direct link into the darkness.

I never bought into the idea that there is a demon for everything. A person needs to stretch the available information to make that seem feasible. It seems silly to me that some churches attribute so much to demons. In doing this they almost trivialize a much more serious subject. Then there are churches that almost seem too deny demons exist. Like they are something that existed long ago. The truth is in the middle. Don't give the devil too much attention...he doesn't deserve it. But don't underestimate him either. That is basically my stance.